August 2017 Running Challenge

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  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    MobyCarp wrote: »
    @PastorVincent - There's some technical explanation here that I haven't seen before, but it is true that butt kicks have been used as drills to improve form for a long time. Further, focusing on the follow through (lift leg high) is part of running strides or running at rep pace in the system my club uses. Coach tells me that this is an exaggeration of good form, and the fast pace forces the runner to find good running economy. The feel, if not the absolute height of the heel raise, is supposed to carry through to other parts of the marathon training program and, by extension, to race day.

    Having said that, what the milestone pod folks are saying sounds a lot like focusing on cadence. They've looked at what good runners do, found something that they think they can measure, and told beginning runners to concentrate on that. I think that may be a misplaced emphasis. In the case of cadence, the important thing is landing with your foot under your body, and increased cadence is supposed to force the newbie into better form. In the case of butt kicks, the point is good running economy and the high kick is supposed to force you into better form and better running economy. But I think focusing on the precise angle is misguided. Some runners will kick higher than others, and most will kick higher while running faster than while running slower.

    So . . . saying faster marathon runners have faster cadence and a higher leg swing than slower marathon runners may just be observing the *results* of running faster, not actually finding a cause. You watch any good runner in a race that's 5K or longer, and I would expect that his leg swing will be higher in the last 200 meters when he puts on the finishing line kick. It's natural, and he isn't concentrating on the angle his leg makes when it rises.

    Thanks for this!


    I think...
    Saying faster marathon runners have faster cadence and a higher leg swing than slower marathon runners may just be observing the *results* of running faster, not actually finding a cause.

    Maybe be the heart of the issue. The whole correlation does not equal causation principle.

    So based on what you are saying, I should pretty much just ignore the leg swing stat. It will just work out like how your form changes automatically to accommodate pace when you push from distance jog to 1-mile sprint.

    I think over all I have a pretty good form. Habits learned running track in HS seem to have come back naturally. Probably could improve, but that would take hiring someone to watch me run and then design drills and that is $$ and time beyond my current ability.
  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    You are not a failure! You pushed through and accomplished something! But I would advise dialing back to your own level of fitness. The runs in the plans are suggestions not the law of the land :) Listen to your body and adjust as needed.

    @PastorVincent Thanks for the words of encouragement! Yes, I need to dial back the interval runs. I am going to kill myself trying to finish this MMR training plan otherwise.

    shrcpr wrote: »
    @amymoreorless, I'm doing MapMyRun for my HM training plan, too. Next run is supposed to be 4 6-minute intervals at a 10 minute mile, which will be fast for me. We'll see how it goes!

    @shrcpr Good luck on your next run! I am sure it will be awesome. :)

  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
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    MobyCarp wrote: »
    Non-running update: Today I am forced to admit that I am injured. I did not get as far as fatiguing the right Achilles that has bothered me; I woke up with a sensation in my right ankle that feels like a mild sprain. It doesn't let me run 4 paces, let alone enough to see if my Achilles is still irritated. No doubt attempting the warmup at club practice yesterday evening was a mistake; but it seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do at the time.

    So I'm doing the rest, ice, compression drill. I have some ankle supports left over from previous sprains, and I'm wearing one of them all day today. I will get plenty of sleep. I did the 10 minute immersion in ice water routine that I hate. I'm on naproxen, and will stay on it for a while. And I have an appointment with my podiatrist next week anyway.

    I may have to take a DNS at one or all of the next 3 races I am registered for. If that turns out to be the case, I'll seriously consider not registering for Boston 2018. My body might be telling me it doesn't like the volume I've put into marathon training. But no firm decision on that yet. I could change my mind several times between now and the Boston registration window.

    @MobyCarp Oh no! Hope you have a speedy recovery.
  • kevaasen
    kevaasen Posts: 173 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Forgot to post the picture from the run again. A little splash of color on my run...


    Have been reading the info online re your newly acquired milestone pod. I too found the leg kick subject an interesting topic. Other than that how are you liking the pod and the info it is providing? The one piece of info that is intriguing to me is the "force of impact" stat and also using that data to improve running form as well as being able to see how a shoe is changing over time as it breaks down vs guessing if I need new shoes at 300, 400, 500 etc. I am technically in the market based on the change the oil every 3k miles which i never followed for my car and would go to 5k. Also of interest for me is how it connects to RunSocial app which I use on the treadmill to give me an avatar to virtually run. (Love running the London Marathon...not all in one visit) and it appears it could capture my pace vs me manually inputting increases or decreases.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    kevaasen wrote: »
    Have been reading the info online re your newly acquired milestone pod. I too found the leg kick subject an interesting topic. Other than that how are you liking the pod and the info it is providing? The one piece of info that is intriguing to me is the "force of impact" stat and also using that data to improve running form as well as being able to see how a shoe is changing over time as it breaks down vs guessing if I need new shoes at 300, 400, 500 etc. I am technically in the market based on the change the oil every 3k miles which i never followed for my car and would go to 5k. Also of interest for me is how it connects to RunSocial app which I use on the treadmill to give me an avatar to virtually run. (Love running the London Marathon...not all in one visit) and it appears it could capture my pace vs me manually inputting increases or decreases.

    So first off you should know it basically syncs with nothing. They seem to be moving in that direction but are a ways off yet. It can export a run as a TCX file that Strava/etc can import - but it will only have the barest amount of data. I do not have RunSocial so can not speak to that, but from what I saw looking in the TCS file, I doubt it will be any different.

    I have run 3 times with it now. In my last run:

    Foot Strike
    2% Heel 87% Mid 11% Toe

    Cadence
    171 SPM

    Ground Contact
    282

    Rate of Impact
    100% Low

    Stride Length
    40

    Leg Swing
    69% Low, 31% Mid, 0% High

    Beyond that, it has pace, distance and time. But it has no GPS so it is basing distance of stride length and you can not put it on a map. Out of the box, the distance was way off. I did one calibration run and now it is very close to what RunKeeper reports for distance (6.02 vs 6.06). Pace calculation is faster on the Pod vs RunKeeper but that is probably a function of the difference in distance and time (56:00 vs 56:28). I read somewhere that if your pace drops below a certain number, it thinks you are walking and stops logging it as a run. I have not confirmed that yet.

    It says my current shoes last an average of 400 miles, but I am at mile 530 with them. So not sure about that reading. Since I put the pod on the shoes after they already had 500 miles on them I am not using that feature yet. Next pair of shoes I will do that.

    Now in the past RunKeeper had a bug where it would loose runs tracked with a watch. This would have made a good back up in that case as it does gather the basic run information. Hopefully, that bug does not return, but I guess I have a back up if it does.
  • JimCrackinDandy
    JimCrackinDandy Posts: 146 Member
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    lporter229 wrote: »
    <3<3<3 I'm a Pittsburgh native. Kennywood holds lots of fond childhood memories for me. It's been a good twenty years since i have been there. I keep telling my husband that we need to go.

    So glad to hear this! Hoping your husband and you can make it. A lot has changed at Kennywood. Still very much a Hometown favorite! Don't forget to visit Idlewild when you come back :)<3

  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    JimCrackinDandy wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    <3<3<3 I'm a Pittsburgh native. Kennywood holds lots of fond childhood memories for me. It's been a good twenty years since i have been there. I keep telling my husband that we need to go.

    So glad to hear this! Hoping your husband and you can make it. A lot has changed at Kennywood. Still very much a Hometown favorite! Don't forget to visit Idlewild when you come back :)<3

    We just moved to Pittsburgh two years ago... still need to get out to Kennywood. Someday!
  • kevaasen
    kevaasen Posts: 173 Member
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    [quote="PastorVincent

    So first off you should know it basically syncs with nothing. They seem to be moving in that direction but are a ways off yet. It can export a run as a TCX file that Strava/etc can import - but it will only have the barest amount of data. I do not have RunSocial so can not speak to that, but from what I saw looking in the TCS file, I doubt it will be any different.

    [/quote]

    Yeah, noticed it doesn't connect well to current tech and would become another app with duplicative data points capturing only a couple of items that seemed intriguing and different. like you I use Runkeeper app during a run for voice updates while using my garmin watch/connect as my "official" tracking tech to feed run data to Strava and active calories to MFP. Thanks for the quick reply and info
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    8/1/17 - 3.01 miles treadmill before weight lifting.
    8/2/17 - 6.13 miles
    8/3/17 - 3.03 miles on the treadmill before weight lifting.
    8/4/17 - Rest day
    8/5/17 - 12.04 miles, rough BG before, during, and after run.
    8/6/17 - Rest day; weight lifting
    8/7/17 - Rest
    8/8/17 - 3.01 miles treadmill before weight lifting
    8/9/17 - 6.01 miles, "Race Pace" (not quite) - felt good and indicators for fat adaptation look promising
    8/10/17 - Rest (not exercising due to blood tests on 8/11)
    8/11/17 - Rest
    8/12/17 - Rest (lots of walking at state fair)
    8/13/17 - 9.00 miles
    8/14/17 - Rest
    8/15/17 - 4 miles treadmill before weight lifting. Having electrolyte issues
    8/16/17 - 4.85 miles. Still having electrolyte issues

    exercise.png

    Upcoming Races:
    9/9/17 - Wabash Trace HM
    10/21/17 - Oregon Trail Run HM
  • Runningmischka
    Runningmischka Posts: 386 Member
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    @MobyCarp I am sorry to hear about your injury. Wishing you a fast recovery!

    Looks like there are many of you are from PA! I just recently moved to Gettysburg, so far I enjoy this area.
    No run for me today, but I did have a great strength training session.

    Goal: 120
    Currently: 69
    8/1 - 6 miles
    8/2 - 0, strength training
    8/3 - 8 miles
    8/4 - 0, rest day
    8/5 - 7 miles
    8/6 - 6 miles
    8/7 - 6 miles
    8/8 - 7 miles
    8/9 - strength training, Body Pump
    8/10 - 0 miles, rest day (although busy day at work)
    8/11 - 9 miles. My first 9-miler in a long run, it felt terrific. I could have kept going longer, but my empty stomach reminded me of its existence around mile 7.
    8/12 – 0 miles, unplanned rest day, did not feel well
    8/13 – 6 miles, easy
    8/14 – 6 miles, easy and fast (for me that is)
    8/15 – 8 miles
    8/16 – strength training with BodyPump

    Upcoming races:
    September 24 – Bachman Valley Half Marathon. Goal – to beat my previous PR of 1:50
    November 5 – Across the Bay 10k. Goal – to have fun with my friends. This is just a cool event.
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,390 Member
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    Well today was a no run day even after my rest/strength training day yesterday... I didn't get enough sleep and was exhausted when I got up this morning for an early before work run. I had meetings starting at 7 and back to back from that point on all day... I couldn't fit the run in regardless how I looked at it and finally took away the stress of trying to fit it in somewhere, anywhere... by just not running and focusing on work. Had a family emergency around lunch time and now I am drained. Heading to bed and hoping for a better day (along with an early morning run) tomorrow.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Running form question... this article claims that swinging your legs HIGHER during running (100 degree angle is mentioned) is more efficient and gets you more speed:

    http://www.milestonepod.com/blog/want-to-run-faster-with-less-effort-kick-your-butt/

    Has anyone heard anything about this? Is this legit? Seems counter-intuitive at a glance as you are wasting energy and time getting your leg up instead of getting it back to the ground to push again.

    @PastorVincent Well, for a start, the article's written by a running pod company. :smiley:

    "Leg angle (also called “leg swing”) is one of 12 metrics captured by the MilestonePod."

    Also, does a greater angle just come with running faster, rather than causing it? I believe so. Correlation is not causation.

    I approve of your skepticism.

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