Losing Grip on Deadlifts

24

Replies

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    1.) it gets better.

    2.) use mix grip

    3.) try some drop sets (good for hands too)

    4.) chalf- don't needs a stupid amount- we aren't a big chalk gym- but you see it there- and as long as you aren't fricking clapping your hands all over dusting EVERYTHING and EVERYONE around you- they probably won't care.
  • JTick
    JTick Posts: 2,131 Member


    Unless! Your goal is aesthetics, and you need some disproportionately large back, then do what you need to do to get there. But that's not what's being discussed here so nevermind. :smile:

    My goal is definitely strength...I'm going to have loose skin and so many stretch marks that I think aesthetics are about out of the realm of possibility for me haha. Thanks for the suggestions!
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    being able to grip 175 pounds for more than 20 secs is a major quality of life issue?

    Absolutely. But not surprising you lack the imagination or self awareness to figure out why, over the course of a human life span, the strength of your grip will change your quality of life.

    The whole point of doing compound moves is that you eliminate the weakest link. For many of us, that winds up being grip due to the way we lived before we decided to take exercise.


    If you need straps to deadlift 175, and it doesn't occur to you to work on your grip instead, you have a bad case of putting the cart before the horse.


    The opposable thumb, and our grip, is one of the defining characteristics of our species and a major reason we are the most prolific higher order vertebrate on the planet.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    my quality of life would be greatly improved if you'd pull up your underwear and put on a damn shirt.
  • RECowgill
    RECowgill Posts: 881 Member


    Unless! Your goal is aesthetics, and you need some disproportionately large back, then do what you need to do to get there. But that's not what's being discussed here so nevermind. :smile:

    My goal is definitely strength...I'm going to have loose skin and so many stretch marks that I think aesthetics are about out of the realm of possibility for me haha. Thanks for the suggestions!

    I know this is frustrating. But I often think the solution is just to stick with it, keep trying to lift the bar with just your hands.

    Whierd had good suggestions on this I think. I probably did a lot to improve my grip between shrugs and rows. Hands and forearms would hurt like hell, but they got stronger. Just keep grabbing a bar or dumbbell at the edge of your lifting capability and try to push it. But these are very difficult judgement calls only you can decide, how much is lifting heavy and pushing yourself vs being on the verge of an injury. You're doing deadlifts so I don't have to tell you which is which.

    You could look at it this way too: If you're stalled on deadlifts at 185 because of your grip, then keep doing them at 185 till your grip improves. You'll still get a good workout, you'll still build strength. You will be more well rounded as a deadlifter since all of the muscles are able to move the weight comfortably. You might be stuck there for a while but I'd keep at it eventually your hands will have no choice but to get stronger.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    my quality of life would be greatly improved if you'd pull up your underwear and put on a damn shirt.


    I don't have enough grip to hold the spoon I would need to feed you.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    my quality of life would be greatly improved if you'd pull up your underwear and put on a damn shirt.

    lol well I know my life is better with better grip strength...

    I can PR on Dead lifts- my grip before gave out way before my legs did- and that's really all I care about...and well pull ups/toe to bar/skin the cat those get all better too. :D

    and I can open my own jars of relish- no need to get a pesky significant other- can just DIY.

    :D
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    my quality of life would be greatly improved if you'd pull up your underwear and put on a damn shirt.

    lol well I know my life is better with better grip strength...

    I can PR on Dead lifts- my grip before gave out way before my legs did- and that's really all I care about...and well pull ups/toe to bar/skin the cat those get all better too. :D

    and I can open my own jars of relish- no need to get a pesky significant other- can just DIY.

    :D


    Maybe we can convince him to tape his thumbs to his palm, and then notice how many daily activities involve interacting with his environment using opposable thumbs to manipulate objects with varying amounts of force.

    It's ALMOST as if the hand is the single most important evolutionary development in human history, without which the large brain would never have happened. Or in some cases, never did.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    OBJECTIVE:
    to investigate the relationship between grip strength and health-related quality of life (HRQoL).
    DESIGN:
    cross-sectional survey within a cohort study design.
    SETTING:
    the county of Hertfordshire in the UK.
    PARTICIPANTS:
    a total of 2,987 community-dwelling men and women aged 59-73 years of age.
    MEASUREMENTS:
    grip strength was used as a marker of sarcopaenia and measured using a Jamar dynamometer. HRQoL was assessed using the eight domain scores of the Short Form-36 (SF-36) questionnaire, and subjects in the lowest sex-specific fifth of the distribution were classified as having 'poor' status for each domain.
    RESULTS:
    men and women with lower grip strength were significantly more likely to report a poor as opposed to excellent to fair overall opinion of their general health (GH) [odds ratio (OR) per kilogram decrease in grip strength = 1.13, 95% CI = 1.06-1.19, P < 0.001 in men, 1.13, 95% CI = 1.07-1.20, P < 0.001 in women]. Among men, after adjustment for age, size, physical activity and known co-morbidity, decreased grip strength was associated with increased prevalence of poor SF-36 scores for the physical functioning (PF) (OR per kilogram decrease in grip strength = 1.03, 95% CI = 1.01-1.06, P = 0.007) and GH domains (OR = 1.03, 95% CI = 1.01-1.05, P = 0.01). Similar associations were seen in women.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    our findings suggest that lower grip strength is associated with reduced HRQoL in older men and women. This does not appear to be explained by age, size, physical activity or co-morbidity and may reflect the link between sarcopaenia and generalised frailty. Individuals with sarcopaenia may benefit from interventions to improve muscle mass and strength before the onset of chronic disorders usually associated with impaired HRQoL.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690636



    Keep in mind though, this isn't relevant if you are young and stupid and can manage to stay that way forever.


    But for the rest of us who expect to lose strength and muscle mass as we age, take note. Get your grip as strong as you can, while you can.
  • JTick
    JTick Posts: 2,131 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    my quality of life would be greatly improved if you'd pull up your underwear and put on a damn shirt.



    and I can open my own jars of relish- no need to get a pesky significant other- can just DIY.

    :D

    I can carry a LOT more bags of groceries now without dropping them. :smokin:
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    lol. still waiting for stories on how being able to grip 200+ pounds will help you significantly in real life so much so that so that'd you'd be willing to delay developing your posterior chain strength indefinitely. i'm not knocking grip strength at all by asking that, am i? just a bit of reasonable back up for your assertions? no, too crazy?

    well, maybe you can tell me more stories about your speed rope. they were fascinating the first time. tell me more
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    lol. still waiting for stories on how being able to grip 200+ pounds will help you significantly in real life. i'm not knocking grip strength at all by asking that, am i? just a bit of reasonable back up for your assertions? no, too crazy?

    well, maybe you can tell me more stories about your speed rope. they were fascinating the first time. tell me more


    You kind of are knocking grip strength.


    Wait, are you saying you frequently run into scenarios where you need your back to lift 200 lbs, without using your hands? That would explain why you need your back to be strong, but not your grip.


    Here is an easy example for you: lifting an 80 lb object that does not have a barbell shaped handle, which forces your hand to have to squeeze very, very hard to hang on to and manipulate it.


    Another: opening a jar when you are 80 years old and you have lost 80% of your grip strength relative to when you were young and stupid and using straps. Since it is relative to where you were before the decline.


    Oh, to be young and invincible,
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    http://bit.ly/1505i39
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,943 Member
    Personally I use straps for heavier poundages on deadlifts. I don't use them till I get up to about 245lbs.

    When I do rows or pullups, I exclusively use straps because I'm focusing on back "building" and not arms at all.

    Nothing wrong with straps if grip strength can't keep up with a back workout.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    so 80 year olds are lifting 200 pound things outside of the gym? or the OP is? Or she's regularly lifting 80 pound objects that don't have handles? does she work on an 100 foot sailing craft?

    do you regularly lift 200 pound objects outside of the gym? in your cited study, did they find that 80 year olds needed 200+ pounds of grip strength, or was there a more general correlation between being strong and quality of life. i mean, it was a nice article and all, but i didn't see the correlation between powerlifting levels of strength and quality of life. but that was probably because i lack imagination. and opposable thumbs.
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    OBJECTIVE:
    to investigate the relationship between grip strength and health-related quality of life (HRQoL).
    DESIGN:
    cross-sectional survey within a cohort study design.
    SETTING:
    the county of Hertfordshire in the UK.
    PARTICIPANTS:
    a total of 2,987 community-dwelling men and women aged 59-73 years of age.
    MEASUREMENTS:
    grip strength was used as a marker of sarcopaenia and measured using a Jamar dynamometer. HRQoL was assessed using the eight domain scores of the Short Form-36 (SF-36) questionnaire, and subjects in the lowest sex-specific fifth of the distribution were classified as having 'poor' status for each domain.
    RESULTS:
    men and women with lower grip strength were significantly more likely to report a poor as opposed to excellent to fair overall opinion of their general health (GH) [odds ratio (OR) per kilogram decrease in grip strength = 1.13, 95% CI = 1.06-1.19, P < 0.001 in men, 1.13, 95% CI = 1.07-1.20, P < 0.001 in women]. Among men, after adjustment for age, size, physical activity and known co-morbidity, decreased grip strength was associated with increased prevalence of poor SF-36 scores for the physical functioning (PF) (OR per kilogram decrease in grip strength = 1.03, 95% CI = 1.01-1.06, P = 0.007) and GH domains (OR = 1.03, 95% CI = 1.01-1.05, P = 0.01). Similar associations were seen in women.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    our findings suggest that lower grip strength is associated with reduced HRQoL in older men and women. This does not appear to be explained by age, size, physical activity or co-morbidity and may reflect the link between sarcopaenia and generalised frailty. Individuals with sarcopaenia may benefit from interventions to improve muscle mass and strength before the onset of chronic disorders usually associated with impaired HRQoL.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690636



    Keep in mind though, this isn't relevant if you are young and stupid and can manage to stay that way forever.


    But for the rest of us who expect to lose strength and muscle mass as we age, take note. Get your grip as strong as you can, while you can.

    Thank you for that. I am baffled that my rather uncontroversial assertion about grip strength and quality of life turned out to be so lolworthy to the people commenting in this thread. But then I read research on aging. Glad I am not alone.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
    Oh! I didn't realize the OP was a girl!! I saw that cannon in her profile picture and assumed it was a guy. :laugh:

    I have a friend on here that runs into the same issue with her grip strength on deadlifts. She uses a mixed grip until around the point that her grip fails, then uses wrist straps. It has allowed her to progress her deadlift while her grip strength catches up.
  • dagolifts
    dagolifts Posts: 42
    Yes, build resistance before pushing any further.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    Personally I use straps for heavier poundages on deadlifts. I don't use them till I get up to about 245lbs.

    When I do rows or pullups, I exclusively use straps because I'm focusing on back "building" and not arms at all.

    Nothing wrong with straps if grip strength can't keep up with a back workout.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition


    So are you saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to develop your grip strength so that the straps are not necessary, without making a sacrifice in back strength?

    Because it seems to me that the way the human hand is designed, it's the other way around, and grip strength has less of an absolute limit on it than back strength. Which might explain how free climbers can pull themselves up using some really freaky and inconveniently shaped handholds.

    I know that for me, if my back can lift something but I can't hold on to it, that's a bigger disappointment than if my back can't handle the load. That's because I mainly use my hands to manipulate objects and interact with my environment. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
  • jeffpettis
    jeffpettis Posts: 865 Member
    i prefer to not have my back strength limited by a weak grip. my back is stronger than my forearms so why would i let the forearms dictate my total volume and max lift?

    why can't he go strapless until his grip gives out, then continue with straps to complete his workout? since we all believe in the power of progression his grip strength should incrementally improve on a regular basis, no?

    OP is a she. But regardless, having a strong grip is a major quality of life issue, and ideally one would want to develop that along with back strength. I would liken giving a novice lifter straps for DL to giving a calculator to someone still mastering basic arithmetic. A calculator is a great tool, but you kinda need how to do your sums to function.

    Deadlifts are not a grip exercise... If someone is having grip issues, no matter who they are or how long they have been lifting, why should they not use straps? If the rest of your body can handle the weight why would you let your grip be the one thing that holds you back from progressing? If you need to use them use them. Don't let Bro Science hold you back!!!
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
    Personally I use straps for heavier poundages on deadlifts. I don't use them till I get up to about 245lbs.

    When I do rows or pullups, I exclusively use straps because I'm focusing on back "building" and not arms at all.

    Nothing wrong with straps if grip strength can't keep up with a back workout.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition


    So are you saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to develop your grip strength so that the straps are not necessary, without making a sacrifice in back strength?

    Because it seems to me that the way the human hand is designed, it's the other way around, and grip strength has less of an absolute limit on it than back strength. Which might explain how free climbers can pull themselves up using some really freaky and inconveniently shaped handholds.

    I know that for me, if my back can lift something but I can't hold on to it, that's a bigger disappointment than if my back can't handle the load. That's because I mainly use my hands to manipulate objects and interact with my environment. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

    Rock climbers specifically NEED a strong grip strength. I may have missed it if the OP says that she is, but barring that or the goal to lift at meets, a massive grip strength isn't necessary in day to day life.

    I agree with needing to strengthen the weakest link in the chain, in her case her grip strength. But what you seem to be proposing is to halt all other progression until her grip catches up. If that is the case, I disagree. I see no reason to halt progression on one front while waiting on another.
  • JTick
    JTick Posts: 2,131 Member


    Rock climbers specifically NEED a strong grip strength. I may have missed it if the OP says that she is, but barring that or the goal to lift at meets, a massive grip strength isn't necessary in day to day life.

    I agree with needing to strengthen the weakest link in the chain, in her case her grip strength. But what you seem to be proposing is to halt all other progression until her grip catches up. If that is the case, I disagree. I see no reason to halt progression on one front while waiting on another.

    Yeah, heights make me poop myself, so no rock climbing for me!

    Also, I think a few of you might have missed my post where I said I have an old wrist problem, so increasing my grip strength might not even be possible in that hand. I am more than willing to try just for the sake of being stronger, but I am not willing to stop lifting if I'm not able to make improvements in that area. I also realize (some of) you are arguing broscience right now, but just thought I'd reiterate myself.
  • tuckerrj
    tuckerrj Posts: 1,453 Member
    Unless you are a competitive powerlifter, which requires you to handle a one rep maximum without straps, I see no reason to limit your back training due to your grip strength. I used straps for my deadlift work sets, but not my warm ups or single rep work. My grip strength kept up.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member


    Rock climbers specifically NEED a strong grip strength. I may have missed it if the OP says that she is, but barring that or the goal to lift at meets, a massive grip strength isn't necessary in day to day life.

    I agree with needing to strengthen the weakest link in the chain, in her case her grip strength. But what you seem to be proposing is to halt all other progression until her grip catches up. If that is the case, I disagree. I see no reason to halt progression on one front while waiting on another.

    Yeah, heights make me poop myself, so no rock climbing for me!

    Also, I think a few of you might have missed my post where I said I have an old wrist problem, so increasing my grip strength might not even be possible in that hand. I am more than willing to try just for the sake of being stronger, but I am not willing to stop lifting if I'm not able to make improvements in that area. I also realize (some of) you are arguing broscience right now, but just thought I'd reiterate myself.

    Oh, another grip building exercise I just remembered that some rock climbers do. Get a tennis ball and squeeze it while you're at work, at home, watching TV, etc.
  • JTick
    JTick Posts: 2,131 Member


    Rock climbers specifically NEED a strong grip strength. I may have missed it if the OP says that she is, but barring that or the goal to lift at meets, a massive grip strength isn't necessary in day to day life.

    I agree with needing to strengthen the weakest link in the chain, in her case her grip strength. But what you seem to be proposing is to halt all other progression until her grip catches up. If that is the case, I disagree. I see no reason to halt progression on one front while waiting on another.

    Yeah, heights make me poop myself, so no rock climbing for me!

    Also, I think a few of you might have missed my post where I said I have an old wrist problem, so increasing my grip strength might not even be possible in that hand. I am more than willing to try just for the sake of being stronger, but I am not willing to stop lifting if I'm not able to make improvements in that area. I also realize (some of) you are arguing broscience right now, but just thought I'd reiterate myself.

    Oh, another grip building exercise I just remembered that some rock climbers do. Get a tennis ball and squeeze it while you're at work, at home, watching TV, etc.

    Awesome! I just started an office job and am bored out of my mind, so this is definitely something I can do there.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    Personally I use straps for heavier poundages on deadlifts. I don't use them till I get up to about 245lbs.

    When I do rows or pullups, I exclusively use straps because I'm focusing on back "building" and not arms at all.

    Nothing wrong with straps if grip strength can't keep up with a back workout.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition


    So are you saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to develop your grip strength so that the straps are not necessary, without making a sacrifice in back strength?

    Because it seems to me that the way the human hand is designed, it's the other way around, and grip strength has less of an absolute limit on it than back strength. Which might explain how free climbers can pull themselves up using some really freaky and inconveniently shaped handholds.

    I know that for me, if my back can lift something but I can't hold on to it, that's a bigger disappointment than if my back can't handle the load. That's because I mainly use my hands to manipulate objects and interact with my environment. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

    Rock climbers specifically NEED a strong grip strength. I may have missed it if the OP says that she is, but barring that or the goal to lift at meets, a massive grip strength isn't necessary in day to day life.

    I agree with needing to strengthen the weakest link in the chain, in her case her grip strength. But what you seem to be proposing is to halt all other progression until her grip catches up. If that is the case, I disagree. I see no reason to halt progression on one front while waiting on another.

    Her "other progression" won't actually halt though. She'll just be spending a slightly longer time lifting at that weight before going up again. That's a natural way to force yourself to make your lift perfect. It's not a race. Taking your time and moving up in weight only when your lift is perfect at your current weight will, over the long run, result in less injury and a better outcome.


    There are a million ways to argue that the cart goes first, not the horse. Very compelling but still backwards.


    If this comes down to what one NEEDS, the whole discussion is moot. She doesn't NEED to deadlift more this week than last week. She wants it.


    You are right to point out that it depends on your goals. I'm pointing out that a clever person will notice just how handy it is to be able to grip and hold at least 2x your body weight.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    i prefer to not have my back strength limited by a weak grip. my back is stronger than my forearms so why would i let the forearms dictate my total volume and max lift?

    why can't he go strapless until his grip gives out, then continue with straps to complete his workout? since we all believe in the power of progression his grip strength should incrementally improve on a regular basis, no?

    OP is a she. But regardless, having a strong grip is a major quality of life issue, and ideally one would want to develop that along with back strength. I would liken giving a novice lifter straps for DL to giving a calculator to someone still mastering basic arithmetic. A calculator is a great tool, but you kinda need how to do your sums to function.

    Deadlifts are not a grip exercise... If someone is having grip issues, no matter who they are or how long they have been lifting, why should they not use straps? If the rest of your body can handle the weight why would you let your grip be the one thing that holds you back from progressing? If you need to use them use them. Don't let Bro Science hold you back!!!

    Deadlifts are an EVERYTHING exercise. Grip included. This is not bro science. It's the simple question "can you pick that thing up?". If your answer is "let me get my straps", then the answer is "no".
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    ^but what if *you* are the weakest link? but do tell me some imaginative stories about ordinary lives being improved on a day to day basis by having massive grip strength. please share, my self aware but under-dressed friend.

    Rescuing damsels in distress from stuck jar lids and bottle caps is sort of a hobby of mine now. This is important stuff, brother.
  • jdm_taco
    jdm_taco Posts: 999 Member

    Deadlifts are an EVERYTHING exercise. Grip included. This is not bro science. It's the simple question "can you pick that thing up?". If your answer is "let me get my straps", then the answer is "no".

    exactly!
  • username_misso
    username_misso Posts: 50 Member
    I know I'm simple and basic about this, but I really feel that if you can't grab it with your hands don't lift it. Just grab things, pick them up and hold onto them with your hands should be enough to develop proper grip strength. If you keep picking up and moving heavier weights using only your actual hands and nothing else, you will force them to develop. They will have to. If you give them any kind of crutch, they will not develop (straps, funky thumb grips, I'm looking at you).

    If you really have to there are some grip strength exercises that can be done, and I think this is better than going to straps or any artificial means of enhancing your strength. Like grab a plate and hold it out horizontally using your finger grip. You'll build some strong as hell hands and forearms doing that. But most of the time I think it's not necessary, just go back to basics and pick up heavy things and move them.

    Unless! Your goal is aesthetics, and you need some disproportionately large back, then do what you need to do to get there. But that's not what's being discussed here so nevermind. :smile:

    this is pretty much my take on it. there are other viable alternatives you can try before you need to resort to straps, as youve already said you will investigate some grip exercises and such.

    i also had problems with grip at around 100kgs, but i started using chalk and was able to keep progressing.
    when i next ran into trouble deficit deadlifts off a 10cm block coincidentally helped my grip there for the simple fact that i couldnt put the bar down to reset between reps.

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