Short people get the shaft
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StarvingAuthor wrote: »gatamadriz wrote: »Here's what I learned from my nutritionist and also my personal trainer when I lived in Europe:
Short men and women gain muscle more rapidly than taller people.
Wow, that is interesting. I do appear to gain muscle very quickly, is there science behind this? (I'm short.)
Also as far as my original post, I was basically just trying to propose the idea that short people who typically get TDEEs lower than tall people (or at least I thought, before someone posted otherwise) are not actually as hungry as tall people, hence why they need less calories. Or, are short people just as hungry as tall people so weight loss is harder for them than it is for their 6' peers? I got TDEE, BMR, BMI, and the other acronyms all confused. :P
I would say that No- we aren't as hungry (for a similar activity level). The problem is that when out at a bar/party/restaurant/etc with others, we still often also want to have that yummy dessert or a tasty burger or that glass of wine, etc (and the calories aren't there for it).
This may be true for you, but not for me.4 -
Yeah, Us shorties are majorly forked. Want a glass of wine once a week? Well then you can't have breakfast that day. A slice of cake on your birthday? That means no lunch since that is about ithe total calories I would allot to an entire lunch.
So we are forked but are we hungrier than our tall friends? No telling, but I doubt it. Not hungrier but short folks are much less satisfied eating within their calorie goals than taller folk, is my take on it.3 -
Yeah, Us shorties are majorly forked. Want a glass of wine once a week? Well then you can't have breakfast that day. A slice of cake on your birthday? That means no lunch since that is about ithe total calories I would allot to an entire lunch.
So we are forked but are we hungrier than our tall friends? No telling, but I doubt it. Not hungrier but short folks are much less satisfied eating within their calorie goals than taller folk, is my take on it.
Strange... I'm short (5'2) and I have wine pretty much every day, and I don't forego breakfast. Had peach crisp with ice cream the other night and still managed to eat lunch as well and stay within calories...
I'm not hungrier or less satisfied with my calorie allotment. I have worked to increase my NEAT so that my TDEE is about 2200 calories, which gives me plenty of room for all the food I enjoy.9 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
Exercise for many's like the food mart version, of the housing market & we saw, how that went!0 -
I can make that 1 glass of wine work nightly unless the dance venue is follow-heavy and a slow style. (unfortunately, the studio tango venue tends to be where the wine flows more freely - since we can bring our own bottles- and usually has more sitting).0
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I'm 5'3 and maintain at 2300 calories...also compete in powerlifting. My energy needs are pretty high.
I don't think "short people gain muscle easier," that sounds like major broscience. I do look more built than my husband who is 6'3, b/c my limbs are shorter. I guarantee that he still has more muscle...he outweighs me by 75lbs.
ETA: I'm hungry all of the time...8 -
CaloricCountess wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
Exercise for many's like the food mart version, of the housing market & we saw, how that went!
What? There's an exercise bubble?1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »CaloricCountess wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
Exercise for many's like the food mart version, of the housing market & we saw, how that went!
What? There's an exercise bubble?
Of course! Go to gym, earn 300 exercise calories (salary), then buy 500 calorie cupcake (home), with 100 earned exercise salary down payment, borrow 400 calorie loan via tomorrow's budget, overspend by 200 calories of the next days budget, be unable to repay 200 of those calories upon time, foreclose on weight riddance goals & gain debt (weight)!5 -
CaloricCountess wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »CaloricCountess wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
Exercise for many's like the food mart version, of the housing market & we saw, how that went!
What? There's an exercise bubble?
Of course! Go to gym, earn 300 exercise calories (salary), then buy 500 calorie cupcake (home), with 100 earned exercise salary down payment, borrow 400 calorie loan via tomorrow's budget, overspend by 200 calories of the next days budget, be unable to repay 200 of those calories upon time, foreclose on weight riddance goals & gain debt (weight)!
Yes, some people over-estimate calorie burn from exercise.
Not really sure what that has to do with the fact that exercising or being active DOES give even short people a higher TDEE.
Also not seeing the connection with the housing bubble which had to do with lots of specific factors not worth getting into here that seem quite distinct from the TDEE situation, but I'm sure I'm being overly literal.1 -
He he. Alas, our small efficient bodies don't burn a whole lot exercising. (At ~74 calories/mile, the +700 calories to get to the 2200 TDEE mentioned above requires the equivalent of running 9.5 miles on a daily basis..I usually only manage that on the weekends).
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WinoGelato wrote: »Yeah, Us shorties are majorly forked. Want a glass of wine once a week? Well then you can't have breakfast that day. A slice of cake on your birthday? That means no lunch since that is about ithe total calories I would allot to an entire lunch.
So we are forked but are we hungrier than our tall friends? No telling, but I doubt it. Not hungrier but short folks are much less satisfied eating within their calorie goals than taller folk, is my take on it.
Strange... I'm short (5'2) and I have wine pretty much every day, and I don't forego breakfast. Had peach crisp with ice cream the other night and still managed to eat lunch as well and stay within calories...
I'm not hungrier or less satisfied with my calorie allotment. I have worked to increase my NEAT so that my TDEE is about 2200 calories, which gives me plenty of room for all the food I enjoy.
Strange. I'm on MFP because I needed to better my fitness and lose weight, not because I was a super athlete with an excellent TDEE like you!
Maybe you could help me (5'3 with overweight BMI) do meal planning to allow that glass of wine everyday, eat 3 meals every day and get all my nutrients, and lose weight on this because every time I do the math it doesn't add up
Note: The 400 to 600 so calories I exercise off on the 1.5 to 2.5 hours exercising on cardio days ( 3 to 4 days a week) give me a tiny amount of wiggle room but the strength days ( pretty much no extra calories burned) don't.
So yeah, I think short people get the shaft. There is no wiggle room for an occasional treat or logging mistake on so few calories.
Lol if I could eat 2200 a day (without gaining 50 pounds a year doing so) I wouldn't complain either, but I sure would have empathized with those who need to be eating less than 2/3 of that 2200 and understood and been nice about the fact that they have to forgo breakfast to fit in Calories to have a glass of wine that day.
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I'm like @WinoGelato - I'm 5'3", 149 and maintain on 2700cal a day (relatively active, but even on weeks when I do little to nothing and eat the same I maintain)...
according to the calculator that @ryenday post - I should be gaining weight rapidly (since their 2lbs a week is less than what I consume on a daily basis) - yet I've been weight stable for at least 2 months and have increased my calories over 150 a day in that time2 -
Oh, there is another thought to stoke the flames (lol with actual numbers this time):
I have a BMI of 20.3 - 5'4, 118lb, female, 25
If I do moderate exercise (3-5x/week) I will have a TDEE of 1,961 calories to maintain.
If I am sedentary, I will have a TDEE of 1,518 calories to maintain.
Another woman has a BMI of 20.4 (I couldn't get the .3, lol, close enough) - 5'8, 134lb, female, 25
If she does moderate exercise (3-5/xweek) she will have a TDEE of 2,172 calories to maintain.
If she is sedentary, she will have a TDEE of 1,682 calories to maintain.
The taller woman gets ~200 calories more than me, doing the same thing. Not as significant as I originally thought - but on average then, wouldn't it be in line to say that the taller woman is actually hungrier than me? I know we're dealing with an abstract here and its hard to gauge how hungry someone actually is - but still interesting. :-)1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Yeah, Us shorties are majorly forked. Want a glass of wine once a week? Well then you can't have breakfast that day. A slice of cake on your birthday? That means no lunch since that is about ithe total calories I would allot to an entire lunch.
So we are forked but are we hungrier than our tall friends? No telling, but I doubt it. Not hungrier but short folks are much less satisfied eating within their calorie goals than taller folk, is my take on it.
Strange... I'm short (5'2) and I have wine pretty much every day, and I don't forego breakfast. Had peach crisp with ice cream the other night and still managed to eat lunch as well and stay within calories...
I'm not hungrier or less satisfied with my calorie allotment. I have worked to increase my NEAT so that my TDEE is about 2200 calories, which gives me plenty of room for all the food I enjoy.
Strange. I'm on MFP because I needed to better my fitness and lose weight, not because I was a super athlete with an excellent TDEE like you!
Maybe you could help me (5'3 with overweight BMI) do meal planning to allow that glass of wine everyday, eat 3 meals every day and get all my nutrients, and lose weight on this because every time I do the math it doesn't add up
Note: The 400 to 600 so calories I exercise off on the 1.5 to 2.5 hours exercising on cardio days ( 3 to 4 days a week) give me a tiny amount of wiggle room but the strength days ( pretty much no extra calories burned) don't.
So yeah, I think short people get the shaft. There is no wiggle room for an occasional treat or logging mistake on so few calories.
Lol if I could eat 2200 a day (without gaining 50 pounds a year doing so) I wouldn't complain either, but I sure would have empathized with those who need to be eating less than 2/3 of that 2200 and understood and been nice about the fact that they have to forgo breakfast to fit in Calories to have a glass of wine that day.
I'm hardly a super athlete. My exercise is walking, some through purposeful exercise but much of it through daily activity, and circuit training with light weights a few times/week. When I started MFP though, I was truly sedentary. I walked maybe once or twice a week for about 30 minutes, and I stayed at my desk all day long, and when I wasn't doing a chore or something, I was sitting on the couch. I've prioritized being more active, every single day, and worked my way up from averaging about 7K steps/day when I first got my FitBit to double that now. I still have a desk job, but I get up and move as often as I'm able to - taking short 10 minute walks in between meetings, walking at lunch time after eating quickly at my desk (rather than going to the cafeteria and just sitting with colleagues like I used to). When I first started I was set at 1200 like so many others, and then I raised it to 1400 (NET) because I couldn't manage on 1200. I worked to raise my TDEE, by raising my NEAT, by continuing to slowly increase my daily activity level (and my purposeful exercise). It's a pet peeve of mine on these boards how anyone who is petite assumes they have to go to the bare minimum of calories in order to lose weight, or how they lament that being short means they are disadvantaged on the calorie front. You can't do anything about being short, but there are things that people can do about the number of calories they have to work with, and it doesn't mean killing yourself in the gym. There are also a lot of examples of people who have done long term damage to their metabolism (adaptive thermogenesis) by continually restricting calories too low, engaging in yo yo dieting, etc. People don't understand that your NEAT is something you can influence, maybe not in dramatic fashion, but it's not something you are just dealt and have no control over.
Sorry if my comments came across as disrespectful but I still think that there's something off if you can't squeeze in a 125 calorie glass of wine without forgoing breakfast, as often as you wish to indulge in it.16 -
After reading the title, I came here hoping for pictures : (1
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Am I the only one finding amusement in the fact that the OP and others are essentially whining about having a biological survival advantage?
Oh, how the modern food environment has destroyed perspective.9 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Am I the only one finding amusement in the fact that the OP and others are essentially whining about having a biological survival advantage?
Oh, how the modern food environment has destroyed perspective.
Failing to see how I did anything of the sort. I was suggesting that we're all equally hungry. The "jerks!" comment was, IMO, blatant jest.
However, I'm going to go triumph around that in this coming hurricane I only need to stockpile 600 cans of soup as opposed to my tall neighbor's 800. :-)7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Yeah, Us shorties are majorly forked. Want a glass of wine once a week? Well then you can't have breakfast that day. A slice of cake on your birthday? That means no lunch since that is about ithe total calories I would allot to an entire lunch.
So we are forked but are we hungrier than our tall friends? No telling, but I doubt it. Not hungrier but short folks are much less satisfied eating within their calorie goals than taller folk, is my take on it.
Strange... I'm short (5'2) and I have wine pretty much every day, and I don't forego breakfast. Had peach crisp with ice cream the other night and still managed to eat lunch as well and stay within calories...
I'm not hungrier or less satisfied with my calorie allotment. I have worked to increase my NEAT so that my TDEE is about 2200 calories, which gives me plenty of room for all the food I enjoy.
Strange. I'm on MFP because I needed to better my fitness and lose weight, not because I was a super athlete with an excellent TDEE like you!
Maybe you could help me (5'3 with overweight BMI) do meal planning to allow that glass of wine everyday, eat 3 meals every day and get all my nutrients, and lose weight on this because every time I do the math it doesn't add up
Note: The 400 to 600 so calories I exercise off on the 1.5 to 2.5 hours exercising on cardio days ( 3 to 4 days a week) give me a tiny amount of wiggle room but the strength days ( pretty much no extra calories burned) don't.
So yeah, I think short people get the shaft. There is no wiggle room for an occasional treat or logging mistake on so few calories.
Lol if I could eat 2200 a day (without gaining 50 pounds a year doing so) I wouldn't complain either, but I sure would have empathized with those who need to be eating less than 2/3 of that 2200 and understood and been nice about the fact that they have to forgo breakfast to fit in Calories to have a glass of wine that day.
I'm hardly a super athlete. My exercise is walking, some through purposeful exercise but much of it through daily activity, and circuit training with light weights a few times/week. When I started MFP though, I was truly sedentary. I walked maybe once or twice a week for about 30 minutes, and I stayed at my desk all day long, and when I wasn't doing a chore or something, I was sitting on the couch. I've prioritized being more active, every single day, and worked my way up from averaging about 7K steps/day when I first got my FitBit to double that now. I still have a desk job, but I get up and move as often as I'm able to - taking short 10 minute walks in between meetings, walking at lunch time after eating quickly at my desk (rather than going to the cafeteria and just sitting with colleagues like I used to). When I first started I was set at 1200 like so many others, and then I raised it to 1400 (NET) because I couldn't manage on 1200. I worked to raise my TDEE, by raising my NEAT, by continuing to slowly increase my daily activity level (and my purposeful exercise). It's a pet peeve of mine on these boards how anyone who is petite assumes they have to go to the bare minimum of calories in order to lose weight, or how they lament that being short means they are disadvantaged on the calorie front. You can't do anything about being short, but there are things that people can do about the number of calories they have to work with, and it doesn't mean killing yourself in the gym. There are also a lot of examples of people who have done long term damage to their metabolism (adaptive thermogenesis) by continually restricting calories too low, engaging in yo yo dieting, etc. People don't understand that your NEAT is something you can influence, maybe not in dramatic fashion, but it's not something you are just dealt and have no control over.
Sorry if my comments came across as disrespectful but I still think that there's something off if you can't squeeze in a 125 calorie glass of wine without forgoing breakfast, as often as you wish to indulge in it.
Thanks for the apology, it is a pet peeve of mine that people keep telling me I'm doing something wrong when I AM NOT! Itry to explain, I'm short and I don't have 125 calories to play with weekly, let alone daily. I do log faithfully and accurately. I do 5 -10 hours of cardio a week. I do bodyweight exercising 2 or 3 times a week. My blood tests on my yearly physical just came back last week: thyroid and everything else is normal. My BMI is 29.93 if my scale is to be trusted. I eat between 1100 and 1400 calories a day and that has resulted in ( over 6 months) .27 - .34 pounds loss a week ( depending on whether you look at the recent trend or the overall trend including the initial water weight loss). Wow, a whole 1/4 pound a week! That calculator ( assuming normal tracking error (+- 20% error nutrition information labels are allowed) and the occasional husband birthday and my anniversary dinner in those 6 months) is dead right for me.
No, nothing is wrong, if I'm going to be on track to lose that 1/4 pound I fight for each week I can not have my breakfast and wine on the same day. I'm losing, so obviously I'm doing it right.
YOU retrained your TDEE, good for you. Mine isn't responding like yours diid. So, yes, your comment totally did come across as fat shaming. And, no it seems there is nothing wrong with me The calculators I've checked all agree more or less with my body: 1200 calories will make me lose weight. Only about 1/4 pound a week, but steadily enough it shows it works. No I didn't ruin my metabolism on fad diets. I really only purposely dieted twice in my life (each time sensibly and for about 6 months, each time losing about 20 to 25 pounds), and kept the weight loss off each time for over 5 years.
On 1200 calories, no I don't have a spare over 10% my total daily calories to just indulge. You have 2200 calories daily. You can indulge. You are short but were able to retrain your TDEE. Glad for you. (Seriously, I am glad you were able to.) But maybe you could show a tad bit of support for those of us who are short, doing everything right, but are not as successful as you (genetic luck, I suppose) at that retraining so we do have to try to feed ourselves on 1200 a day.10 -
She didn't retrain her TDEE, she increased her Total Daily Energy Expenditure by becoming more incidentally active day to day.
It is pretty baffling that 5-10 hours of cardio and strength training still leaves you with 1200 gross to work with for such a small deficit but there we go.
It's also baffling that this be the case when you have previously lost significantly more in 6 month time frames. Were you eating dangerously low in order to achieve that?
Also, the calculator you showed isn't TDEE if you're selecting sedentary and then talking about adding in exercise. My sedentary/NEAT calories to lose 1lb per week are 1260 calories. Do I eat that few? Hell no! I exercise because ain't nobody got time for that. If I got off my butt and walked more I could easily get another 200 calories a day just from 10'000 steps. So add in the exercise and that's potentially 1700 to lose 1lb per week. No athlete levels of activity there. And room for wine.
And someone of 5'3 isn't especially short to me at 5'5. 5' sure.6 -
VintageFeline wrote: »She didn't retrain her TDEE, she increased her Total Daily Energy Requirements by becoming more incidentally active day to day.
It is pretty baffling that 5-10 hours of cardio and strength training still leaves you with 1200 gross to work with for such a small deficit but there we go.
It's also baffling that this be the case when you have previously lost significantly more in 6 month time frames. Were you eating dangerously low in order to achieve that?
Don't see why that is baffling. The calculators all seem to say less than 1200 a day to have 1 pd weight loss a week ON AVERAGE for someone my height who is sedentary apart from purposeful exercise. And tho these calculators always ask my age, I'm pretty sure they don't use it to get those numbers and I'm older.
On the 3 or 4 cardio days a week I eat more like 1400 (post workout snack) On the non cardio days it between 1100 and 1200. Cardio is at least 1 hour swimming and usually a aqua fit class. Maybe a short bike ride to and from gym. The calculators give an average, I guess I'm just at the 'kitten' end of the bell curve. I doubt I'm actually unusual, I see plenty of posts here - but the reception is usually so poor that I'm guessing others like me usually just keep our mouths shut.
I do lose on the 1200. I just seem to lose maybe 1/2 what the calculators predict. But, given such a small calorie base, one screw up on a nutrition label the allowed +-20% (that 350 cal frozen dinner is actually 420 for instance) and a piece of roast beef that was a tad more fatty than the USDA entry and bye bye deficit for the day. I also just checked and took 5 days off the diet in the 6 months. One restaurant meal can with desert and a glass of wine ( like we had on our anniversary) can eliminate more than a week deficit! when the calorie pool is so small. So given the vagaries of life I'm probably not far from what the calculators predict.
As to the other two diets, no I did pretty much the same as now 1200 to 1400 calories, but I was younger and had a walk, stand on train, walk again commute: thus 2 hours or more daily of activity without any purposeful exercise. I don't live in a city with public transportation anymore and I'm a couple of decades older. Things change.
I'm not complaining that I can't lose weight. I DO lose weight on 1200 calories. Painfully slowly, but steady.
But, no, I do not have 10% or more of my daily allotment of calories to treat myself with wine or cake or potato chips unless I resign myself to blowing the calorie limit that day or doing without a breakfast or lunch to compensate. It is what it is, it sucks but I'm just not going to be ashamed of it here on MFP because it is true.
I'm working to be healthy and fit and a normal weight and it sucks that I can't eat 2200 calories a day, but that is the way it is. All the theory or healthy and fit (and probably younger) people can scoff all they want. I know and live the reality.
And quite frankly someone who is eating actual maintenance calories which are almost more than double the weight loss calories I have telling me it is strange and that I should be able to have wine without forgoing breakfast is not helpful or supportive, imho. There is a world of difference between 2200 calories and 1200 calories and I'm not going to pretend there isn't.
(The dieting has taken its toll, btw. 1200 was too little for me to continue without huge mental health ramifications so I have switched to maintenance this month and probably a few more months. Will continue cardio and strength while I take this break. Loss of only 1/4 pound a week is a serious bummer and I needed a break.)
But back to topic: Short people have a smaller calorie base to work with so therefore any treat ( like a glass of wine) is a larger percentage of their calories and harder to fit in. That sucks and leaves ME ( a shortie) far less satisfied (appetite and taste wise) than my taller friends. But are short people more or less hungry? Doubtful imo.5
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