Short people get the shaft
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ForecasterJason wrote: »I've seen some online calorie calculators that take height into account. As an example, suppose one person is 5'8" 140 lbs and the other is 5'3 140 lbs. The taller one would have a higher metabolism according to the calculator. I've often wondered whether that it is really true.
Someone 5'8 and 140 would on average have a higher lean mass (lower body fat) than someone 5'3 and 140, although to the extent you know real LBM that's more useful (and why the calculator that relies on BF% (Katch McArdle) doesn't need height for its estimate.
BMR isn't much affected by added fat, just added LBM, and someone 5'3 and 140 wouldn't necessarily have much more LBM than someone 5'3 and 125 (125 being in about the middle of the healthy weight range and 140 being at the top).
None of this affects GottaBurnEm's point, which is that BMR doesn't matter, TDEE does. At 5'3, 125, my TDEE ranges a LOT depending on what I do. If I'm completely sedentary, it's around 1550, and if I'm active it can be around 2200 or even more if I wanted to be even more active.4 -
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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I have 3 boys going into the teen , growth spurt years.... I miss those smaller portion days.
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THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.15 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
Really? I'm not sure I pay much attention to others but I usually say cardio for heart, lungs and more food, strength for muscle retention and deficit for weight loss. So move more eat more.
I feel like that's what others say but also say not to use exercise as punishment for overeating.
Maybe my observations are wrong.3 -
Im sorry if this sounds stupid... but I new to reading the boards. What is TDEE/BMR? Thanks
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Im sorry if this sounds stupid... but I new to reading the boards. What is TDEE/BMR? Thanks
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure. It's all of the calories you burn each day through existing, digestion, purposeful movement (exercise) and non-exercise activity.
BMR = Basal Metabolic Rate. Basically, this is the amount of calories required to keep your body functioning at a very base rate, like if you were in a coma.3 -
Understood.lemurcat12 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I've seen some online calorie calculators that take height into account. As an example, suppose one person is 5'8" 140 lbs and the other is 5'3 140 lbs. The taller one would have a higher metabolism according to the calculator. I've often wondered whether that it is really true.
Someone 5'8 and 140 would on average have a higher lean mass (lower body fat) than someone 5'3 and 140, although to the extent you know real LBM that's more useful (and why the calculator that relies on BF% (Katch McArdle) doesn't need height for its estimate.
BMR isn't much affected by added fat, just added LBM, and someone 5'3 and 140 wouldn't necessarily have much more LBM than someone 5'3 and 125 (125 being in about the middle of the healthy weight range and 140 being at the top).
None of this affects GottaBurnEm's point, which is that BMR doesn't matter, TDEE does. At 5'3, 125, my TDEE ranges a LOT depending on what I do. If I'm completely sedentary, it's around 1550, and if I'm active it can be around 2200 or even more if I wanted to be even more active.
What I was more so wondering is whether there would be a difference in BMR with bone vs muscle. Meaning, two people that weigh the same and have the same amount of body fat, but one being taller than the other. So in this case, the taller person would have more bone but less muscle.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Understood.lemurcat12 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I've seen some online calorie calculators that take height into account. As an example, suppose one person is 5'8" 140 lbs and the other is 5'3 140 lbs. The taller one would have a higher metabolism according to the calculator. I've often wondered whether that it is really true.
Someone 5'8 and 140 would on average have a higher lean mass (lower body fat) than someone 5'3 and 140, although to the extent you know real LBM that's more useful (and why the calculator that relies on BF% (Katch McArdle) doesn't need height for its estimate.
BMR isn't much affected by added fat, just added LBM, and someone 5'3 and 140 wouldn't necessarily have much more LBM than someone 5'3 and 125 (125 being in about the middle of the healthy weight range and 140 being at the top).
None of this affects GottaBurnEm's point, which is that BMR doesn't matter, TDEE does. At 5'3, 125, my TDEE ranges a LOT depending on what I do. If I'm completely sedentary, it's around 1550, and if I'm active it can be around 2200 or even more if I wanted to be even more active.
What I was more so wondering is whether there would be a difference in BMR with bone vs muscle. Meaning, two people that weigh the same and have the same amount of body fat, but one being taller than the other. So in this case, the taller person would have more bone but less muscle.
The point is that BMR doesn't really matter. TDEE is what matters.0 -
I know. That's just been a curiosity of mine for a while.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Understood.lemurcat12 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I've seen some online calorie calculators that take height into account. As an example, suppose one person is 5'8" 140 lbs and the other is 5'3 140 lbs. The taller one would have a higher metabolism according to the calculator. I've often wondered whether that it is really true.
Someone 5'8 and 140 would on average have a higher lean mass (lower body fat) than someone 5'3 and 140, although to the extent you know real LBM that's more useful (and why the calculator that relies on BF% (Katch McArdle) doesn't need height for its estimate.
BMR isn't much affected by added fat, just added LBM, and someone 5'3 and 140 wouldn't necessarily have much more LBM than someone 5'3 and 125 (125 being in about the middle of the healthy weight range and 140 being at the top).
None of this affects GottaBurnEm's point, which is that BMR doesn't matter, TDEE does. At 5'3, 125, my TDEE ranges a LOT depending on what I do. If I'm completely sedentary, it's around 1550, and if I'm active it can be around 2200 or even more if I wanted to be even more active.
What I was more so wondering is whether there would be a difference in BMR with bone vs muscle. Meaning, two people that weigh the same and have the same amount of body fat, but one being taller than the other. So in this case, the taller person would have more bone but less muscle.
The point is that BMR doesn't really matter. TDEE is what matters.
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I have 3 boys going into the teen , growth spurt years.... I miss those smaller portion days.
Good God, your grocery bill must be daunting! It was pretty high when I had two teenage girls!2 -
But all exercise burns EXTRA calories versus just BMR and NEAT. Eating less than one's TDEE will result in weight loss. One STILL gets to choose what their TDEE can be with extra physical activity.NorthCascades wrote: »
THIS. YOU create your TDEE. You want to consume more, then you need to burn more.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your BMR is meaningless.
TDEE is where it's at, and unless you have health issues, that is entirely within your control.
I'm old and short and my TDEE is around 2000-2200.
Saying that, I'm perfectly content on around 1800 calories of food, which is around my goal weight maintenance on a bit less exercise than I'm currently doing.
Smaller bodies need less energy to fuel them in much the same way smaller cars need less gas to fuel them.
I never have seen the point in comparing food intake with other people. My husband is a foot taller than me. It would stand to reason that he should eat more food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's weird because whenever anyone asks what kind of exercise burns calories, they're always told to exercise for fitness not for food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
TDEE (total daily energy expenditure). Your total calories burned in a day which includes BMR.Im sorry if this sounds stupid... but I new to reading the boards. What is TDEE/BMR? Thanks
BMR (basal metabolic rate). Calories you burn at rest doing NOTHING. You can literally just sit on the couch for 24 hours and burn over 1,000 calories through life sustaining body function.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
I have 3 boys going into the teen , growth spurt years.... I miss those smaller portion days.
Good God, your grocery bill must be daunting! It was pretty high when I had two teenage girls!
Even my youngest out eats me. He's 10, about 5', 85 lbs and today he ate 2 burgers, salad and a potato for dinner. He was asking for more one hour later. The kid has a six pack he is so skinny. I don't know where they put the food...6 -
I hear this complaint a lot from shorter folks and I always feel that calorie amounts can be a bit misleading if that's all you're looking at. Sure, it is easier to work in social situations with more calories available for the day. However, being 6' I can tell you a 1,000 calorie deficit still feels like a 1,000 calorie deficit.
I'm not sure about how hungry people feel based on height. Ultimately it comes down to energy in vs energy out. I think anyone on a significant cut is going to feel some effect on their hunger without modifications to timing, volume, etc.
Obviously being 6' my body will require a higher baseline of calories to fuel my basic functions/moving around than a 5'4" woman. I do take issue with people complaining that tall people have more calories to work with while cutting as if that makes it an easier experience hunger/energy wise.12 -
And coming from the short, 5'1, light, maintain at 100-105lbs, and old 64 in 6 days., side of things.....
My BMR is ~975, depends on the calculator.
My NEAT according to MFP sedentary is 1200, other calculators have it in the 1100+, but that is sedentary almost comatose but reading a book and the odd pee break.
My TDEE is actually close to 1600. I no longer count calories on anything like a consistent basis. TDEE includes SSIT, lifting, and yoga. Purposful exercise 60 min 5-6 data a week, plus moving more during the day ( upping my NEAT)
It is harder for a woman of shorter stature, within a normal weight range, to lose weight because a person with the normal, but high BMI (using 5'1) of 130 lbs (as opposed to the low normal of 98lbs) is already close to the minimum intake of 1200 cals, sedentary maintenance. And yes even a shorter woman needs those cals. ( exception being maybe under 4'11)
As to the 'fairness' of calorie allowance, my SO is male, 6'3-4" and 205lbs. His meals are so large I couldn't imagine eating them, and wouldn't enjoy the discomfort I would get if I did. (I do share the same meals only portioned to my size)
I do realize everyone is different, especially a short woman who has been in the overweight or obese range and is trying to come to terms with an appropriate calorie allowance.
I don't feel short changed in the amount of food I get to eat because aroma, taste, flavour, quality, and texture are more important to me than quantity, and I get all of that.
Your post is confusing as you compare a short BMR with an average TDEE- two very different things.
Cheers, h.9 -
On the flip side, pants. Yes, it sucks when they're too long, but hemming is a possibility. When they're too SHORT? You can't let out material that isn't there.11
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I don't think someone's height has anything to do with their level of hunger.
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lalepepper wrote: »I hear this complaint a lot from shorter folks and I always feel that calorie amounts can be a bit misleading if that's all you're looking at. Sure, it is easier to work in social situations with more calories available for the day. However, being 6' I can tell you a 1,000 calorie deficit still feels like a 1,000 calorie deficit.
I'm not sure about how hungry people feel based on height. Ultimately it comes down to energy in vs energy out. I think anyone on a significant cut is going to feel some effect on their hunger without modifications to timing, volume, etc.
Obviously being 6' my body will require a higher baseline of calories to fuel my basic functions/moving around than a 5'4" woman. I do take issue with people complaining that tall people have more calories to work with while cutting as if that makes it an easier experience hunger/energy wise.
As a 6'1 chica, I agree with all of this.
Also the number of kg/pounds lost for tall people to go from obese to a healthy weight is much higher. I mean, I had to lose a whole person to move from a BMI of 45.5 (352lb/160kg) to overweight (219/99kg), whereas a person at 5'1 with the same BMI stats would be dropping from 238lb/108kg to 153lb/69kg. I'm not saying its easier for my shorter compatriots at all, but we have to lose a lot more to get the same results. I see the extra calories we have as our help to lose the additional kg's.3 -
lalepepper wrote: »I hear this complaint a lot from shorter folks and I always feel that calorie amounts can be a bit misleading if that's all you're looking at. Sure, it is easier to work in social situations with more calories available for the day. However, being 6' I can tell you a 1,000 calorie deficit still feels like a 1,000 calorie deficit.
I'm not sure about how hungry people feel based on height. Ultimately it comes down to energy in vs energy out. I think anyone on a significant cut is going to feel some effect on their hunger without modifications to timing, volume, etc.
Obviously being 6' my body will require a higher baseline of calories to fuel my basic functions/moving around than a 5'4" woman. I do take issue with people complaining that tall people have more calories to work with while cutting as if that makes it an easier experience hunger/energy wise.
Agreed... I'm 5'10" and I'm probably as hungry as a 5' women if i eat 1500 and her 1200.3
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