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Government control of portion sizes and calories

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  • scarlett_k
    scarlett_k Posts: 812 Member
    edited August 2017
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    I don't know about regulating meals to be honest. I think ready meals designed for one should offer a good range of meals in whatever calories you need out of them.

    I do however welcome smaller size chocolate bars and sweets because I am glutton!

    ETA: I would love it if all chains could adopt calorie/nutrition information. Even the more home made/independent places can approximate calories accurately enough or give us the ingredients list to work out for ourselves.
  • MarziPanda95
    MarziPanda95 Posts: 1,326 Member
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    I'd be for this because at the end of the day, it's really still down to personal choice. It's not like the government are going to kidnap people and force them to eat less, it's just about reducing the amount of unnecessary calories in the meals we buy. If a ready meal is reduced from 800 calories to 500 calories, someone can still very much choose to buy two, or have something else with it. But for those who would still only eat one, it would be a great help towards them losing weight. Something has to be done about the obesity epidemic. We can't just sit here and do nothing. Education, too, is needed. I know a lot of obese people. They are my dearest loved ones. They are amazing people... but they are severely obese and this is down to them not understanding how much they are putting in their bodies. They blame medical issues and refuse to accept that most of their weight is their own fault. If the meals they ate were reduced for them in combination with education, I think they could be helped.

    Denying people care on the NHS if they're obese is definitely not the answer, either. That's not what the NHS stands for. It's not like private health insurance. You aren't going to be denied because of a pre-existing health condition. The NHS is for everyone. Of course, it's not a case of 'everything you want can be done on the NHS'. You already can't get 'cosmetic' things done unless it's a severe issue (affects your physical or mental health). Regulating how many calories are in certain meals would go some way to taking off the pressure obesity puts on the service.
  • JeromeBarry1
    JeromeBarry1 Posts: 10,182 Member
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    What I think so far is that the author of the piece combined PHE and broad social policies with discussion of primary school feeding policies. For the broad social policy, I'm disinclined to confer credibility on an organization which prides itself on success at reducing salt intake. The science on salt intake is very ambiguous, and a government that chooses to elevate ambiguous science to political certainty is lacking in credibility. For the school feeding policy, on the other hand, the government can easily adjust the calories available to the student population in an effort to control their physical size. Whether they'll succeed or not is going to depend upon the families of the students and upon how those students are fed outside the school.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2017
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    mandrewes wrote: »
    Sorry trying again pressed the wrong button!

    I am shocked, surprised and somewhat disappointed at the level of vitriol directed at this proposal on a forum about dieting, health and fitness.

    I dislike it when people say things like this when in reality the supposed vitriol is only a poster or two. Why not address the specific comments you are thinking of, rather than have the rest of us wonder if our views or tone were misread?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    rednote49 wrote: »
    Almost four regular sized cups of local soda can fit into the cup at Burger King.

    Is there just one size at BK in your country? I haven't been to a BK for ages, but the last time I went there were still multiple sizes and I would be shocked if that were not still the case. Buying a large or extra large and complaining it's too big seems odd.

    Are the smalls still crazy big? They might be -- I know they are at a movie theater, since I was just at one. But you can ask for water or get a calorie free option like diet coke. I get giant iced coffees (cold brew), which have few calories (black), and I know they are way more than a serving. Does having larger sizes routinely affect our perception of what normal is? Yeah, I think so, but on the individual level we don't have to let it.
  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
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    I was curious, so I had a google, and I cannot find the nutritional info and serving sizes for BK in the UK at all on google, but I can for the USA. Maybe it's there, but it's not as easy to find.

    It's almost as if there needs to be a push on the fast food industry in the UK... ;)

    Anyway, I then ran the drinks serving sizes through a converter (I'm English and under 40, I have no bloody idea what a fluid ounce is), and now I understand why US-based online discussions on weight loss centre around soda so much.

    Enlightening. I love the internet! All the consciousness-expanding of overseas travel without the airfare.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    I was curious, so I had a google, and I cannot find the nutritional info and serving sizes for BK in the UK at all on google, but I can for the USA. Maybe it's there, but it's not as easy to find.

    It's almost as if there needs to be a push on the fast food industry in the UK... ;)

    Anyway, I then ran the drinks serving sizes through a converter (I'm English and under 40, I have no bloody idea what a fluid ounce is), and now I understand why US-based online discussions on weight loss centre around soda so much.

    Enlightening. I love the internet! All the consciousness-expanding of overseas travel without the airfare.

    I just looked, it's there on their site, click on food, click on whatever category, click on specific product, click on nutrition. Sounds a lot of steps but it's not in reality.

    Their basic hamburger is only 250 calories interestingly.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    Packerjohn wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    peckchris3267 wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Quick serve (places like Pret a Manger, which is a UK based chain, I think) typically all have calories posted where I am (Chicago). I like that, since I think it results in them having a number of lower cal options.

    Local places (non chains) don't, and I think that's fine -- too much burden for them as they change the menu more and nothing is standardized, and no one has to go there if seeing calories is a premium (and they will generally answer questions about how things are made in a way you don't get at a quick serve place).

    The problem with giant serving sizes in many places is because of consumer demand -- people want "value." Does it make sense to basically say "in the current world it's not in your best interest since too many people are fat, sorry"? It rubs me the wrong way, but if the UK wants to experiment with it and see how it goes, I don't care.

    This. I don't think the problem is that the portions are too large (there are smaller portion options available like a plain hamburger) or that the information isn't available, the problem is that people either don't care or don't know enough about energy balance to put it into use.
    And if I want a double quarter pounder and large fries I should be allowed to buy it without government restrictions.

    The GB challenge with this is the government pays 80%+ of healthcare costs and it's going broke. If someone is going to get services from an organization, it is probably that organization's right to make restrictions on things that impact its costs.

    It's not going broke, it's underfunded. Vast difference. We have a predominantly right wing press in the UK and a conservative government at the moment who would love it if healthcare was privatised. Making the NHS look like it's failing is a nifty way to make it happen.

    The simple definition for going broke for a business, government entity, family, individual, etc is their revenue (regardless of the source) is less than their expenses on a regular basis. You can do 3 things to fix this, bring in more revenue, reduce expenses or some combination of the 2. It appears GB is looking at the cost side with limits on portion sizes/calories.
    What if the revenue is being allocated to different areas, i.e. not the NHS, due to the ideological convictions of the decisionmakers and/or corruption?

    Or simply spent poorly, on account of a neverending stream of false economies. For example, a minister tries to save money by cutting funding to coastal sea defenses. Severe flooding, to the value of much more than the cost of the coast defenses (hello, we are an ISLAND. The coast needs upkeep...) then happens along coastal towns...

    P.S. This. Actually. Happened.

    It's still going broke. Believe me, I live in Illinois, we're the definition of corruption, allocating money to other areas (huge pension mess), debt at close to junk bond status, etc.

    Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, those who live in the country where the NHS exists, who have friends and family who work in the NHS and are also politically literate, might know a bit more about it than someone in the USA?

    This isn't a discussion about the NHS or whether it's going broke but about legislating portion sizes.

    And you haven't commented on anything going on in the US?

    Fact of the matter is, whether you think the service is broke or not, if someone is going to get services from an organization, it is probably that organization's right to make restrictions on things that impact its costs.

    We see beginnings of this in the US as government is assuming a larger % of heathcare costs. Obesity is one of the biggest controllable drivers of health care costs. Naturally we are going to see pushes by government for more restrictive regulation on nutrient poor/high calorie foods as an effort to reduce these costs.

    Not many policy decisions no. Certainly not things like healthcare beyond being against the insurance model because I just don't know enough. I may make a broad comment about something with caveats about my knowledge level. I know my limitations.
  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
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    VintageFeline wrote: »
    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    I was curious, so I had a google, and I cannot find the nutritional info and serving sizes for BK in the UK at all on google, but I can for the USA. Maybe it's there, but it's not as easy to find.

    It's almost as if there needs to be a push on the fast food industry in the UK... ;)

    Anyway, I then ran the drinks serving sizes through a converter (I'm English and under 40, I have no bloody idea what a fluid ounce is), and now I understand why US-based online discussions on weight loss centre around soda so much.

    Enlightening. I love the internet! All the consciousness-expanding of overseas travel without the airfare.

    I just looked, it's there on their site, click on food, click on whatever category, click on specific product, click on nutrition. Sounds a lot of steps but it's not in reality.

    Their basic hamburger is only 250 calories interestingly.
    Ah, I see. It works for the food, but I only tried clicking the drinks! And then gave up. Am I a muppet? Yes, yes I am.

    Still want to know for sure what a large Cola in BK is here though. I'm guessing approx 500ml, but I don't know.

  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
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    For all goverments these issues/health concerns boil down to $$$ issues and how to tax to get those $$$ to pay for our health failures regardless of the causes. Letting people die off rematurely does not solve the $$$ issue because they can suck up so much money in medical treatments near the end of their shortened life cycle.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    I was curious, so I had a google, and I cannot find the nutritional info and serving sizes for BK in the UK at all on google, but I can for the USA. Maybe it's there, but it's not as easy to find.

    It's almost as if there needs to be a push on the fast food industry in the UK... ;)

    Anyway, I then ran the drinks serving sizes through a converter (I'm English and under 40, I have no bloody idea what a fluid ounce is), and now I understand why US-based online discussions on weight loss centre around soda so much.

    Enlightening. I love the internet! All the consciousness-expanding of overseas travel without the airfare.

    I just looked, it's there on their site, click on food, click on whatever category, click on specific product, click on nutrition. Sounds a lot of steps but it's not in reality.

    Their basic hamburger is only 250 calories interestingly.
    Ah, I see. It works for the food, but I only tried clicking the drinks! And then gave up. Am I a muppet? Yes, yes I am.

    Still want to know for sure what a large Cola in BK is here though. I'm guessing approx 500ml, but I don't know.

    You're right on the drinks, I didn't check those. I have just tried McDonalds and they don't give a volume amount, just the size, small,medium, large. The medium is 170 calories. But for drinks I think it is even more imperfect because with ice, without, how much ice vs soda has actually gone into the cup etc etc. I struggle to finish the medium with ice (but get diet so it's moot for me) so have no idea what the large looks like really, I think with ice it likely is around 500ml.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2017
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    I've seen some study where people will order whatever size they order (medium, say), regardless of what the actual sizes are, so when fast food restaurants sized up sodas (I believe that basically they discontinued the old small, made old medium "small" and so on), people stuck with the old size.

    I always get water or diet so forget that significant portions of the calories in a meal can be soda, but that kind of thing can make a difference. And I know in movies I've gotten a bigger size than I wanted because they are all expensive but the large is such a better deal (just 5 cents more than medium or some such). And then regretted it because it's a trough I cannot finish and dislike holding.
  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
    edited August 2017
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    I've seen some study where people will order whatever size they order (medium, say), regardless of what the actual sizes are, so when fast food restaurants sized up sodas (I believe that basically they discontinued the old small, made old medium "small" and so on), people stuck with the old size.

    I always get water or diet so forget that significant portions of the calories in a meal can be soda, but that kind of thing can make a difference. And I know in movies I've gotten a bigger size than I wanted because they are all expensive but the large is such a better deal (just 5 cents more than medium or some such). And then regretted it because it's a trough I cannot finish and dislike holding.
    Satisfaction after a meal has a huge mental component, and that accords with other research showing that people don't notice minor reductions in serving size.

    I always order large myself, wherever I go, unless I'm really worrying about calories, because it's a better deal. I suspect that if I didn't, I would worry about not having enough to drink... This despite the fact I always come out of Subway or McDonalds (Burger King is the other side of town) with a partially full dispensing cup and have to finish it off on the walk home. Ridiculous of me, but there it is.

    However, large here is generally 500ml at all the places I normally go, which is 17.6 (to 1 decimal place) fluid ounces, so drinks with occasional meals out don't have such a huge impact on my diet.

    On the other hand, takeaway curry does. Swings and roundabouts.
    McDonaldsUK wrote:
    Our soft drinks machines are calibrated to deliver different sized servings depending on the size of drink that has been ordered and are as follows:
    Small - 250ml
    Medium - 400ml
    Large - 500 ml

    http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatmakesmcdonalds/questions/food/drinks/how-many-ml-are-in-your-small-medium-and-large-fizzy-soft-drinks.html


    I'm fascinated by how large American soft drinks in restaurants are now, tbh. I wonder if Americans are, on average, much better hydrated than people in the UK!

  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2017
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    I've seen some study where people will order whatever size they order (medium, say), regardless of what the actual sizes are, so when fast food restaurants sized up sodas (I believe that basically they discontinued the old small, made old medium "small" and so on), people stuck with the old size.

    I always get water or diet so forget that significant portions of the calories in a meal can be soda, but that kind of thing can make a difference. And I know in movies I've gotten a bigger size than I wanted because they are all expensive but the large is such a better deal (just 5 cents more than medium or some such). And then regretted it because it's a trough I cannot finish and dislike holding.

    Saw this listing of drink sizes. Calories are for typical non-diet soda:

    McDonalds
    Kids 12 oz. — 120 calories
    Small 16 oz. — 150 calories
    Med 21 oz. — 210 calories
    Large 32 oz. — 310 calories

    Burger King
    Value 16 oz. — 140 calories
    Small 20 oz. — 190 calories
    Medium 30 oz. — 290 calories
    Large 40 oz. — 380 calories

    KFC
    Small 16 oz. — 180 calories
    Medium 20 oz. — 230 calories
    Large 30 oz. — 350 calories
    Mega Jug 64 oz. — 780 calories

    Not sure how they come up with some different calorie numbers between businesses for the same number of ounces. Expected ice allowance?

    Way back in the day we would go to the Dairy Queen and get a large Coke after hay bailing. At that time the large Coke was humongous compared to the other sizes offered. It was either 16 or 20 oz. We were HS kids drinking it after 7-8 hours of moving 80-90 pound bales of hay around in 100+ degree temperatures.

    Don't remember anyone in the group getting 2 because 20 oz wasn't enough and nobody was fat either.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    "Mega jug" Please tell me that's some sort of sharing option?
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2017
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    VintageFeline wrote: »
    "Mega jug" Please tell me that's some sort of sharing option?

    No, and that's the problem, people drink the whole thing. I believe some convenience stores call the 64oz the bladder buster.
  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
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    Packerjohn wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    "Mega jug" Please tell me that's some sort of sharing option?

    No, and that's the problem, people drink the whole thing. I believe some convenience stores call the 64oz the bladder buster.
    How?!

    That's 1.8 litres!


    HOW?!


    Thinking about it, I would expect someone to get through between 400ml to 1 litre of water over an hour of very intense exercise on a pleasantly hot summer's day. (25 degrees C/77 degrees F?)


  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2017
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    HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    "Mega jug" Please tell me that's some sort of sharing option?

    No, and that's the problem, people drink the whole thing. I believe some convenience stores call the 64oz the bladder buster.
    How?!

    That's 1.8 litres!


    HOW?!


    Thinking about it, I would expect someone to get through between 400ml to 1 litre of water over an hour of very intense exercise on a pleasantly hot summer's day. (25 degrees C/77 degrees F?)


    My wife shared an air conditioned office (sedentary job) with someone who brought in a 2L bottle of regular Coke every workday. She drank it all by herself before noon. She told my wife she drank a 2L before work also.

    Meet one of the drivers of the obesity crisis.

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