Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
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Definitely always carry something to protect yourself! If I were you, I'd tell each one of them a thing or two! I work at a gym and I literally had a man 50+ years older than me BEG me to move 500 miles away with him and to be his "housewife." He literally harassed me for over a month; I almost had to press harassment charges. There are a few other older men who either have told me they find a part of my body sexy and they want me to "flaunt" it for them when they walk by or they've asked me to come to their house later. People can be disgusting!1
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I live in a really safe city but carry pepper spray constantly. Bought it off amazon, has the pink dye they use in fire alarm pull stations--if I have to use it, I'm leaving my mark to make it easier for the cops to find them! (And it supports breast cancer research.)
Because of the cat calls and cars trolling by when I'm out at night. Whether exercising or running errands. Often teenage looking boys in groups in a car. Learning their good habits early, I suppose.
when I didn't respond to the "Hey B*tch" Friday night, the one screaming at the top of his lungs then started insulting me and called me a fat, ugly pig. He was still screaming at me while they drove off after the light changed and I gave no sign I heard a thing. But I felt really unsafe.
It really does frustrate me that I have to cover up in the summer heat to have less "risk" of some strange guy deciding he gets to comment on my body. I should be able to wear a sports bra and shorts (athletic wear) without some men/boys taking it as an invitation to be rude, hostile and just plain gross.
And when I say stuff back? I get something along the lines of "B*tch, learn to take a compliment." Yeah ... screaming about my a** or b**bs from a car is NOT a compliment! And you know it.4 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Sorry, that's terrible. Everyone deserves to not be harassed.
But, since I'm learning here, what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
The setting needs to be appropriate. Interrupting someone's workout like OP's example is rude and scary. And you're not going to get anywhere with that approach.
There are tons of folks in bars, clubs and on dating apps hoping for people to break the ice. Running up along side someone who is running, and the. Going back to have a laugh with your friends? Bad judgment, creepy and not boyfriend material.3 -
You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
This is what bothers me--that all this is necessary. And to go out, have a run, and come back safe and sound again I have to mentally prepare myself to not look like a "victim." So, in addition to pace, heart rate and route (oh, and not getting run over by cars making right hand turns without looking) I also have to have a "perpetual b*tch face?" And look like and move like I don't want to be messed with? While running?
That's *kitten*! How about the *kitten* in this world get their crap together and just stop the bad behavior? Why should we have to alter everything we do to not get harassed or worse? How about stopping the harassment? There are way, way more good men than bad men in the world--things don't have to be this way.8 -
Check out this article printed in Runner's World a few months ago: https://www.runnersworld.com/running-while-female It's a good read, and very accurate. A lot of men don't even realize the harassment/abuse women get while running - which amazes me. I've had a few encounters as well. I don't appreciate it. Crazy you have to worry about your personal safety when you just want to get a run in.
Great article, Becky--thanks for sharing! Sadly, I can definitely relate.
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You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
Is this the same wide you mentioned on another thread who didn't realize she was pregnant until the baby came and whom you praised for not gaining weight while pregnant and becoming a piggy?8 -
[quote="Mr_Healthy_Habits;c-40298775"
I think generally speaking, women like to feel admired, but not always, and not by everyone. [/quote]
This type of thinking is a huge part of the problem.6 -
[quote="Mr_Healthy_Habits;c-40298775"
I think generally speaking, women like to feel admired, but not always, and not by everyone.
This type of thinking is a huge part of the problem. [/quote]
Exactly. The only admiration i need is from my husband.
I may have liked attention from teenage boys when i was an insecure teenage girl, but that need disappeared when i grew up and became an adult..
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DamienAngelica wrote: »It's harassment, plain and simple, and it's not your fault. Ever. Ignoring it is probably the best thing to do, unfortunately, because if you respond with aggression, they might, too. You never know. Women have been killed for less, unfortunately.
I really wish the men reading this post would just read, maybe learn a thing or two about what it's like to walk through this world as a woman, and move on. All the "Hey, this is the solution!" (which is usually just telling a woman how to change her behavior because those men, you know they just can't help themselves.) or "Gosh, I didn't realize men did that! I'm one of the good guys, I swear!" (A thousand shades of #notallmen.) is not helpful. At all.
Once again, this happens to men as well. Woman need to learn to respect boundaries at well.
Men get unwanted advances, groped, and raped as well.
It's a major flaw and issue within a person, not a certain gender.
Yes, men can experience assault, harassment and violence. I know, I work with survivors of violence.
But to add this into a conversation about a level of harassment where the overwhelming majority of harassees are women really show you don't understand the conversation. And to be honest, it shows a lack of respect for what women are experiencing because you just tried to shift the conversation to focus on men.
This isn't the time or space to play Devil's Advocate or talk about the violence that women inflict of men. It is infinitesimal compared to the other way around. While most men do not commit acts of violence, the majority of incidents we're talking about here are committed by men.
It all needs to stop.
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I have an etiquette question. When I'm out running or on the bike and pass another runner/cyclist coming in the opposite direction, I'll give a little head nod and sometimes maybe a "hey". I do the exact same for men and women and always thought it was just a polite acknowledgement that doesn't really mean anything. Men almost always return the nod, but lately I've come to notice that often women either just keep focused straight ahead and completely ignore it, or (occasionally) give me a hard, "don't *kitten* with me or I'll cut you" staredown.
So, is that harassment? Should I stop doing that? Maybe only acknowledge men and ignore women?
Personally, I would not count that as harassment. It's generally how I try to interact with men and women. Though I am more outwardly friendly to women because I don't see them as a threat.
A little nod of recognition. If you're not getting looks back from women, it's because they're on the defensive. And when the see you, they don't see a fellow runner or athlete, they see someone who might (at best) try to harass them, or (at worst) try to hurt them.
It's not personal at that point, it's survival.0 -
Goober1142 wrote: »Have you ever noticed that the young, good.looking ones never give you any trouble lol
no, actually. unless 'dickhead' is a demographic i've not heard about, i've never found that demographics predicts very much.4 -
You don't want my pity, but that is what I'm feeling reading all this. Is this a city thing? I live quite rurally and many friends think I should be afraid to go out on my own when there might be "strangers in vans", etc. The reality is if there's any "weirdos" out there it's most likely going to be me in my Lycra running with my headtorch on (try it, very liberating). I always say hi and wave at folk I meet, be it walkers, cyclists, drivers, farmers herding cattle, and I generally get a hi or a wave back. In the 7 years I've been running I've had one "stranger in a van" wind the window down and shout "nice *kitten*", I don't know whether he was being serious, winding me up or that was the only way he knew how to say hi. I just said thanks and gave him the normal (thanks for not running me over) wave I give everyone. It really is sad if there's folk feeling threatened. Or worse, actually being threatened.0
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Some of experiences have been rural.
In one case I was cycling along when a pick-up passed me. No big deal, lots of vehicles go by. But moments later, there he was by the side of the road with the hood up and doing some tinkering. Again, no big deal. It happens. I went around and kept cycling ... and he passed me again. That's fine, he must have fixed whatever it was. And then, there he was pulled over again but just sitting in the vehicle this time. I went by ... he went by ... and there he was sitting by the side of the road again.
By now, I was starting to get a bit suspicious.
I went by ... and this time he pulled up along side me and started to slowly edge me toward the ditch. He rolled down his window and asked me if I needed a ride. "No". "Are you sure, you look like you need a ride." "No." Still edging me closer and closer to the ditch. "Get in the truck" ... and at this point I screamed "NO!!!" at the top of my lungs and kicked his door, then stopped suddenly so that he went past me and I was behind him.
At that point another vehicle appeared, driving somewhat more slowly, and he drove off. I didn't see him again ... but my father joined me on all my rides in that area after that.
In a different location, I had just left city limits on a quiet country road, when someone tried to ride up beside me and smack me on the butt. He missed and nearly fell out of his car window.
In the city, twice I've had people drive up behind me and deliberately open their doors. Both times I heard the door click and dashed up onto the sidewalk out of the way.
And I've lost count of the number of times I've been yelled at either in the "catcall" or "get off the road" manner (and/or had things thrown at me or people reaching out their cars to try to grab me or hit me or whatever) both within a city and in the country ... in numerous different countries, and numerous different areas of those countries.
It's a really good ride when I finish up with no incidents. Fortunately of the thousands of rides I've done, most are good.1 -
That is horrifying, I can't understand why folk can't just be nice/normal to one another. Do you carry anything? Alarm? Pepper spray? Not as easy to discreetly hide in your bra / knicker elastic as a front door key.0
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Bluebell2325 wrote: »That is horrifying, I can't understand why folk can't just be nice/normal to one another. Do you carry anything? Alarm? Pepper spray? Not as easy to discreetly hide in your bra / knicker elastic as a front door key.
When I've cycled alone in Canada I've carried pepper spray in my handlebar bag. Here in Australia, I usually cycle with my husband but if I do go alone, I stick to fairly well travelled routes so I'm not out there completely by myself ... there are witnesses.
I also let my husband know when I've started the ride, and text him at points during the ride to let him know where I am and that I'm OK.2 -
I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Have any of these incidents been reported to the police? Especially the ones involving vehicles - if you can get the plate number (appreciate not always possible) then they're quite identifiable... Even if they just send a stern letter then that might put some of the idiots off? Would be good to know what is recommended. Especially in cases where folks on the public road attempt to touch/hit a cyclist, that's just asking for a nasty traffic accident at best and I can't imagine that the police wouldn't at least take details, and take action for multiple reports.0 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Have any of these incidents been reported to the police? Especially the ones involving vehicles - if you can get the plate number (appreciate not always possible) then they're quite identifiable... Even if they just send a stern letter then that might put some of the idiots off? Would be good to know what is recommended. Especially in cases where folks on the public road attempt to touch/hit a cyclist, that's just asking for a nasty traffic accident at best and I can't imagine that the police wouldn't at least take details, and take action for multiple reports.
The kind of pepper spray I had was more for animals than humans (found in mountain hiking stores and the like), and I never used it.
As for getting plate numbers, that is more difficult than you'd imagine. You're not really expecting anything, and then something happens and your brain goes into fight or flight mode: "How do I get out of this situation?" and you're focusing on that ... and then they drive off and by the time you think, "I've got to get their plate number!", they're gone.
Some cyclists ride with gopro cameras to catch the people on camera. Sometimes that seems to help.5 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Have any of these incidents been reported to the police? Especially the ones involving vehicles - if you can get the plate number (appreciate not always possible) then they're quite identifiable... Even if they just send a stern letter then that might put some of the idiots off? Would be good to know what is recommended. Especially in cases where folks on the public road attempt to touch/hit a cyclist, that's just asking for a nasty traffic accident at best and I can't imagine that the police wouldn't at least take details, and take action for multiple reports.
The kind of pepper spray I had was more for animals than humans (found in mountain hiking stores and the like), and I never used it.
As for getting plate numbers, that is more difficult than you'd imagine. You're not really expecting anything, and then something happens and your brain goes into fight or flight mode: "How do I get out of this situation?" and you're focusing on that ... and then they drive off and by the time you think, "I've got to get their plate number!", they're gone.
Some cyclists ride with gopro cameras to catch the people on camera. Sometimes that seems to help.
I've never seen pepper spray in a hiking store - but we don't have animals like that here either!
Yeah, I know it isn't gonna be easy to get the plate number. Just wondering really if anyone had ever spoken to the police about these incidents.0 -
I have never been severely overweight, but I noticed something strange happening as I lost vanity weight and gained confidence.
When I was horribly shy, I never was approached. In hindsight, this surprised me because I appeared that I could easily be victimized due to a fear of speaking out or creating conflict.
As I gained confidence, I started to be a bit more.. abrasive I guess for lack of better term. I became less afraid of eye contact, having RBF, or calling people out on poor behavior. This is when a lot of my sexual harassment began. One time in particular, I had a male continuously bother me all night, even when I told him to screw off and shut his mouth. Apparently this was a challenge to him because when he went to leave that night, he came up behind me, whispered in my ear that he'd be seeing me later, and proceeded to reach around and assault me. The real kicker? My husband was right next to me. I had to push my extremely non-confrontational husband down in a chair to stop him from going after the guy. Unfortunately, that's just one story in recent years.
I guess the moral of my experience is that it doesn't matter how you carry yourself sometimes. Some men and females are just out there to gain control.0
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