Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
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Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Unfortunately there just isn't an answer that I can think of, you can't control people or their actions unfortunately. Thankfully this kind of behavior is illegal in the workplace, but it's hard to legislate it out on the street, but maybe this type of behavior should be illegal in and outside of the workplace...
I've had really good luck on public transit with focusing attention on the person being harassed, asking if they're ok, offering to switch seats, etc. I used to see people stand by and do nothing but thankfully it's becoming much more socially acceptable to call it out.
I by no means am saying to ignore it... But I can't control what is happening where I'm not present. Although I agree with you that people shouldn't just stand by and watch this kind of thing happen.
Most of the time, if it's going to happen, it's probably going to be when you're alone... So yeah it should be illegal2 -
briansolomon7863 wrote: »
This same thing goes on with men and other men all the time. Especially young me who don't have an education and believe the only way to get more in life is to take your piece of the pie instead of making the pie bigger for everyone. Or men who are jealous of what you have (or what they think you have) so they out of their way to prove they are tougher than you-- like insulting you in public for no reason but to show off that they can get a way with it while their buddies are there. Seriously it's totally *kitten*. Why do you think men "bulk-up", take martial arts, etc...
I remember one time in high-school this total jerk was messing with me in class for no reason. He was "preppy" and I was a nerd. He kept looking at me and saying "I'm going to kick your *kitten* after school." I was like "what, your aren't serious? Why should we fight I don't even know you." Well, he didn't really reply, just kept looking at me and made aggressive postures toward me. He was sitting in the desk in front of me, but in the row to my right when facing the front of the class. Of course the teacher just ignored everything (I went to public school).
Well, the rest of the day I was trying to figure out how to avoid this guy after school. Then around 6th period (the last class of the day) I heard that an Asian guy stabbed him (he was white). Up to that point in my life, I had never felt so relived as when I heard the was stabbed.
It happens all the time for young adult males too. Seriously, it's a jungle out there.
We either strive to have a civilized society or we don't. Expecting women to police this kind of behavior isn't helpful.
Neither is calling them "props in a play".
I don't mean to offend. But when I say "props in a play" I mean that the women are not real to these types of men. These women are objects to them. These men see these women as "something" to be acted upon, not something that is a sentient being.3 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Unfortunately there just isn't an answer that I can think of, you can't control people or their actions unfortunately. Thankfully this kind of behavior is illegal in the workplace, but it's hard to legislate it out on the street, but maybe this type of behavior should be illegal in and outside of the workplace...
As a husband and father, I don't feel it would be to terrible of an idea if the OP had the right to go to the police and have the jerk that ran next to her at the very least slapped with a fine.
I mean sure this opens up us good guys to all sorts of trouble and Bs claims but women shouldn't have to put up with jerks because of this.
It all comes down to how we raise our kids. This guy sounds like some over privileged, spoiled, brat who's gotten away with being able to say and do whatever he's wanted his whole life. Sounds like his parents never kicked his *kitten* when he deserved it. Far too common these days, whatever happened to old school parents...
I agree 100%. It is about how we raise our children. Most children today are not raised to respect authority or their elders. All they are taught is that their emotions as individuals is what matter. Kids are not taught that there rare facts that actually happen. They are taught to speak "your truth," which is basically your opinion. So they lose respect and feeling for others. Kids are not raised to be gentlemen and ladies. They are raised with the idea that society owes them something, just because, or just because of something that happens to their ancestors a century ago.
I remember in the 1970's, my parents had a credit cared. But they never used it. Why? I asked them one day. They said that only people who couldn't afford things like food use them. People respected themselves a lot more back then. If you were a janitor, at least you were supporting your self and your family.
Today, most kids just want to be famous just to be famous; many would rather get money from the government instead of working for it themselves. It's a dam shame. Many kids these days just don't have any respect for themselves.
God do I sound like an old mumpit in the theater balcony!5 -
briansolomon7863 wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Unfortunately there just isn't an answer that I can think of, you can't control people or their actions unfortunately. Thankfully this kind of behavior is illegal in the workplace, but it's hard to legislate it out on the street, but maybe this type of behavior should be illegal in and outside of the workplace...
As a husband and father, I don't feel it would be to terrible of an idea if the OP had the right to go to the police and have the jerk that ran next to her at the very least slapped with a fine.
I mean sure this opens up us good guys to all sorts of trouble and Bs claims but women shouldn't have to put up with jerks because of this.
It all comes down to how we raise our kids. This guy sounds like some over privileged, spoiled, brat who's gotten away with being able to say and do whatever he's wanted his whole life. Sounds like his parents never kicked his *kitten* when he deserved it. Far too common these days, whatever happened to old school parents...
I agree 100%. It is about how we raise our children. Most children today are not raised to respect authority or their elders. All they are taught is that their emotions as individuals is what matter. Kids are not taught that there rare facts that actually happen. They are taught to speak "your truth," which is basically your opinion. So they lose respect and feeling for others. Kids are not raised to be gentlemen and ladies. They are raised with the idea that society owes them something, just because, or just because of something that happens to their ancestors a century ago.
I remember in the 1970's, my parents had a credit cared. But they never used it. Why? I asked them one day. They said that only people who couldn't afford things like food use them. People respected themselves a lot more back then. If you were a janitor, at least you were supporting your self and your family.
Today, most kids just want to be famous just to be famous; many would rather get money from the government instead of working for it themselves. It's a dam shame. Many kids these days just don't have any respect for themselves.
God do I sound like an old mumpit in the theater balcony!
Get off your lawn?5 -
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The thing is does this work for any guy? Do they actually have women stopping to chat and flirt? Why would anyone, man or woman, think this is appropriate?3
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I would honestly tell anyone that pulled this *kitten* in front of me to STFU. I am not adverse to confrontation and have told off groups of guys before. Being a bulldog shape with shaved head and an old school Marine might have helped
Still I don't count on others to behave themselves. I take matters into my own hands and am giving my daughter tools to protect herself. Can or should a lone female tell off a group of guys? I don't think it's wise. Better to just get out of the area.
We don't live in a perfect world where *kitten* keep their yaps shut. We live in a world where unfortunately it is going to happen no matter how many decent people tell them off. To change this it is going to take a whole lot more than I think is possible. Best thing I think we can do is raise our children to respect everyone for the content of their character. Unfortunately that is not going to change anything for years.2 -
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I had this the other day where these teenage boys were 'appraising' me but couldn't make a decision until they had looked round me to my butt. The answer was no *kitten* because...I have no *kitten*. All muscle no fat. Regardless, I felt disgusting because I'm 10 years older than they are and they shouldn't be looking at me, or any female like that. We're not cattle at a market to be bought for slaughter. I don't exist to be valued by a man.
I've also had the case of men trying to be macho and prevail over me, the weak and feeble woman, and I tell it to them straight: I got the body I have kicking people's faces. Men's faces too. The ones on a power trip visibly crumple when I tell them I do martial arts and fight men in the ring. They often throw their hands up like 'whoa, I don't want to mess with her' in a joke-y way but what disturbs me the most is there is often a small slither of them that is still hoping that I take some bull**** cardio boxing class and they can still get one up on me. Those are the skin crawlers.
I live with the privilege of knowing I can defend myself if I had to, which is why I let it go most of the time. Just ignore it and go straight past it as it's generally idiots being idiots. But if a guy is really going for it? Then I stand up and say something about the inappropriateness of his behaviour because like another commenter suggested: you just making them choose the other girl. I refuse to let that lie. How is it fair that women are just supposed to pass the buck of possible sexual assault and hope 'it's not them' but some other girl? Why the hell don't men have to live up to the responsibility of being decent human beings? A lot of them have the sense to look ashamed when you call them out and if they don't, get out of there because they're clearly not all there.8 -
Being married and having a older daughter, I appreciate how they feel about this type of behavior but it really hit home last week when at the gym a man I do not know said to me on the way to the locker room, "your muscles are really developing nicely." I am sure it was intended in a positive way but I was surprised at how creepy it came across to me.5
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clayelliott847 wrote: »Ok. If I want to talk to a girl, what is the right way?? After reading all these comments I feel I am harrasing by just saying hello.
I suggest you talk to her like a human being.10 -
clayelliott847 wrote: »Ok. If I want to talk to a girl, what is the right way?? After reading all these comments I feel I am harrasing by just saying hello.
If you want to talk to someone who is running or cycling ...
First of all, get into your running gear or get on the bicycle and go out and run or ride.
If you're just driving by or hollering from a street corner, we don't want to hear from you.
Secondly, join a running club or cycling club and get involved in the sport. Perhaps the person you want to talk to is involved in one of those clubs as well and you'll meet on common ground, doing something that interests you both.
Thirdly, if you happen to meet while out running or cycling, just talk like a normal human being. Discuss running or cycling ... discuss footwear or bicycles ... discuss upcoming events ...
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I havent read past page 1, but this is precisely why i stopped exercising outside! I made sure and wore baggy unattractive shorts and tshirts, and it didn't make a difference. I just got sick of feeling like a piece of meat in the zoo for pigs to leer at.
My response to these guys was to stare them down and just shake my head until i made them feel as uncomfortable as they made me feel, the ones calling out while driving past in their cars got the finger!4 -
I get this a lot. I have a different reaction depending on my mood, the safety of the situation, and exactly what was said. I have been known to hide my face, make a mean face, or yell "BACK UP OFF!"
Sucks.2 -
I've had really good luck on public transit with focusing attention on the person being harassed, asking if they're ok, offering to switch seats, etc.
i agree with this, if other people happen to be around. the way the dynamic works for the harasser is heavily based in them being isolated and having nothing else to give their attention to. you can stare out the window or whatever, but that doesn't really work because it's not like they're stupid. they still know they're 'winning' because they're as aware as anyone else that you're having to spend energy and attention on blocking them out.
so as a bystander, just providing some pretext for breaking it up and giving them someone else to talk to/whatever can go a fair ways towards spiking their guns. that's assuming there even are any bystanders, of course.
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I have found a somewhat aggressive ( direct, a little louder than normal, neutral in emotion, a more formal address rather than just a "hey" or "what's up" etc...) "HELLO!" or "GOOD MORNING" etc... with direct eye contact is off putting for men. If you can get the jump on them and take away they're predatory drive ( you're not "prey" if you acknowledge them first) it takes away their power. They don't realize this, of course, they are just kind of in shock and say a quiet "Hi" back as you run or bike by at your most powerful speed and perfect form. Puff up, Be aggressive - and you'll beat them at their own game.
This.0 -
The thing is does this work for any guy? Do they actually have women stopping to chat and flirt? Why would anyone, man or woman, think this is appropriate?
you're missing the point a little. or you skipped some of the zillion posts about it
yes, it works for the type the op was talking about, because they're not after a real interaction or relationship in the first place. they're just pulling a power play, and if they get that taken care of it's 'worked'.
a lot of men do this to women to show that they can. not to 'meet' them. to demonstrate that they can if they feel like it.
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briansolomon7863 wrote: »I agree 100%. It is about how we raise our children.
well, if that's the case they were raising kids wrong when my parents' generation were kids because men of that age were making themselves a nuisance to me when i was 18. it's not about the internet or instagram. this *kitten* was happening before those two things even were.
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canadianlbs wrote: »I've had really good luck on public transit with focusing attention on the person being harassed, asking if they're ok, offering to switch seats, etc.
i agree with this, if other people happen to be around. the way the dynamic works for the harasser is heavily based in them being isolated and having nothing else to give their attention to. you can stare out the window or whatever, but that doesn't really work because it's not like they're stupid. they still know they're 'winning' because they're as aware as anyone else that you're having to spend energy and attention on blocking them out.
so as a bystander, just providing some pretext for breaking it up and giving them someone else to talk to/whatever can go a fair ways towards spiking their guns. that's assuming there even are any bystanders, of course.
I catch public transport daily and have often sparked up a conversation with a woman being harassed, either just as a conversation, or, if the harasser is being really insistent, by pretending I know her.
You know, "Oh hey!! It's been ages! How are you? Are you still working in the same place?". In those more full on circumstances, I usually also maneuver myself between her and the harasser.4 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »All the better if it is in front of your buddies.
why i love eddie izzard. 'and they hang out in groups of five . . . because they've got a fifth of a personality each'.
what i have to contribute to this is that it's not a one-flavour kind of phenomenon. there is the very definite herd-bully variety that you're referring to. there's the 'lonely' guy who tries to force a conversation on a woman because just being out on her own makes her seem accessible. there's the overtly predatory type ditto. and there are the condescending types who are so awe-inspiringly up their own selves that they sincerely think a random 'compliment' from the likes of them will just make our little hearts glow for the rest of the day.
so, given that, there's no one-size solution either. my sister and i have compared a lot of notes about this over the years, because we're such different types it never stops being fascinating how different our experiences are. similar features, different 'types'. she's the blonde amazon who stops a room when she's on point. i'm the gidget-y type.
bottom line: we both come/came in for equal volumes of flak. we just get different flavours more commonly. she gets overt up-front aggression. i get insinuation and the passive-aggressive 'soft' sell. we both have had similar kinds of reactions most of our lives ["*kitten* off or i'll take your face off"]. we just get different kinds of retaliation/reaction when we do it.
she gets the aggression up front, before the '*kitten* off'. i always tended to get it after that point. it's always been socially fascinating, but my general point is that it all comes out to about the same quantities when you eliminate the individual-context factors.
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