Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
Replies
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You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I agree with what you are saying, but I'm not sure how I can possibly display sheep-like body language when I am running at like a 9min pace, sweating - I am certainly NOT smiling. Guess I just have to remember, shoulders back, gaze forward. Generally I do have a RBF in public, though.4 -
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
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rainbow198 wrote: »I deal with this quite often. I find any response whether it's positive or negative makes them want to engage more with me and/or they become more aggressive which can be a little scary. Plus it's not worth my energy. I'd rather save it for my workout.
Keeping my headphones in my ear, ignoring and keeping it moving works for me.
It's a shame though. I've gotten some great really great random compliments, but when I respond back they've try to get a conversation going or try to get my number.
Sometimes I might smile and say thanks and stay moving if I think it's sincere but for the most part I have to ignore.
I would love to have a quick-response/reaction such as what @zuzurillo and @MotherOfSharpei have said, but I tend to not engage as well.0 -
Check out this article printed in Runner's World a few months ago: https://www.runnersworld.com/running-while-female It's a good read, and very accurate. A lot of men don't even realize the harassment/abuse women get while running - which amazes me. I've had a few encounters as well. I don't appreciate it. Crazy you have to worry about your personal safety when you just want to get a run in.
I don't think a lot of men realize the type of harassment/abuse women get while just living their lives.
This type of thing has happened to me while I've been out grocery shopping, on a walk, running errands, etc. It's not limited to encounters while just out exercising and while it does happen more often when I'm alone I've had it happen when I'm with female friends as well. Once in college a guy tried to force me and my roommate into his truck.
It's sad, but there are certain things I do and don't do as a woman in order to ensure my personal safety.6 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Thank you for beating me to it...There is no reason a woman should have to frown her way through life just to not be harassed. I DO agree in taking responsibility for how you allow people to treat you, but no one should pretend their positivity away for someone else to be an aHole.
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
You can break the ice without seeing someone regularly. It's just not a good idea to interrupt someone's workout. I would prefer not to be hit on at the gym, but if you could catch me before or after my workout I wouldn't be as frustrated as if you stopped me mid run. You don't have to say anything witty or try and compliment me. A simple "hi, I'm so and so and I was wondering if you would like to grab lunch/coffee/etc. sometime?" would suffice.
Exactly. IF a person truly had sincere, heart-felt interest to compliment/approach/introduce themselves to someone, then they would also think of the situation and context and notice when it would be an appropriate time to do so. Not interrupting someone.3 -
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
I never know how to respond to this type of thing because I don't get exposed to it...as well I often wonder if the whistles and such shouldn't just be taken for what they are...appreciation of our form and how we look or the fact we are taking care of ourselves...(*shrugs* that statement might better belong in the unpopular opinion thread)
I mean I go outside and run and walk etc but I don't get "harassed" or feel objectified etc.
I have been told I have the resting *kitten* face too...I don't see it but maybe I do.
But to the OP I am not sure if there is anything you can do about this...but if you feel worried or scared there are these batons you can buy that are retractable and fit in your hand...
I am getting one for animals/dogs...4 -
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
I never know how to respond to this type of thing because I don't get exposed to it...as well I often wonder if the whistles and such shouldn't just be taken for what they are...appreciation of our form and how we look or the fact we are taking care of ourselves...(*shrugs* that statement might better belong in the unpopular opinion thread)
I mean I go outside and run and walk etc but I don't get "harassed" or feel objectified etc.
I have been told I have the resting *kitten* face too...I don't see it but maybe I do.
But to the OP I am not sure if there is anything you can do about this...but if you feel worried or scared there are these batons you can buy that are retractable and fit in your hand...
I am getting one for animals/dogs...
I am the same re: not knowing how to respond because of not having experienced it. My husband says I have an air about me that tells people not to bother me and I don't see that either. I think the baton idea is a good one. [My husband and I have actually noted, through the years, how many men we see taking walks/hikes while carrying a stick (often just a random stick) while we never see women doing that.]1 -
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Rosemary7391 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Sorry, that's terrible. Everyone deserves to not be harassed.
But, since I'm learning here, what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
How about not complimenting, how about just talking about neutral subjects? Or at least subjects that don't involve how someone looks or your attraction to them.
I mean, c'mon, we're talking about interrupting someone who is obviously out for a run or something not-related-to-looking-for-company.
Compliments are personal and are appropriate after you've been talking to someone for a while. Not strangers.
So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
Compliments aren't the same as breaking the ice (especially ones on physical appearance/fitness, which, let's face it, is all you've got to go on for a random stranger out for a run). It's not making a lonely and boring world for it not to be polite to yell "nice <bodypart>" at a randomer as they zoom past. It'd be lonely and boring if it wasn't polite to strike up a brief conversation about the weather/lateness of the bus/current events on public transport and gentle meanders through the park, but that's quite different. Leave the busy folks to it - and be nice to the ones who maybe would appreciate a natter
I don't know what a "natter" is, but I think we're in agreement 1 -
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
LOL. That's a very "You don't have to swim faster than the shark..." kind of mentality. We've domesticated wolves before. We can do it again.5 -
I don't have any advice on how I handle it personally, because I've never experienced it. I go out walking quite a bit in various areas and have never received that kind of attention. I've been told that I often have a "don't mess with me!" look on my face and I carry myself with very straight posture which makes me look even taller than my 5'10", so maybe that has something to do with it too. Or... maybe I'm just not attractive enough to be worth the trouble, LOL
I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, OP, I'm just going by what I've been told about myself... that I carry myself with an air of authority and "*kitten* face" and that I come across as somewhat intimidating. Maybe that makes a difference? It's a shame if that were the case. Nobody should have to always feel like they have to look "tough" just to go for a run.4 -
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Check out this article printed in Runner's World a few months ago: https://www.runnersworld.com/running-while-female It's a good read, and very accurate. A lot of men don't even realize the harassment/abuse women get while running - which amazes me. I've had a few encounters as well. I don't appreciate it. Crazy you have to worry about your personal safety when you just want to get a run in.
Thanks for sharing that article!
“The real center of attention is a man’s relationship with other men,” he says. Men and boys want to look cool, be funny, or find validation and acceptance from other men. Society teaches that to be a man, you must be powerful, aggressive, and dominant, and some men apply that to how they treat women on the street."
^^I've never realized this before. It almost always comes from a guy who has at least one friend with him. I think it'll help me to remember that it has nothing to do with me necessarily, just guys trying to show off to their friends and be dickheads.8 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Rosemary7391 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Sorry, that's terrible. Everyone deserves to not be harassed.
But, since I'm learning here, what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
How about not complimenting, how about just talking about neutral subjects? Or at least subjects that don't involve how someone looks or your attraction to them.
I mean, c'mon, we're talking about interrupting someone who is obviously out for a run or something not-related-to-looking-for-company.
Compliments are personal and are appropriate after you've been talking to someone for a while. Not strangers.
So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
Compliments aren't the same as breaking the ice (especially ones on physical appearance/fitness, which, let's face it, is all you've got to go on for a random stranger out for a run). It's not making a lonely and boring world for it not to be polite to yell "nice <bodypart>" at a randomer as they zoom past. It'd be lonely and boring if it wasn't polite to strike up a brief conversation about the weather/lateness of the bus/current events on public transport and gentle meanders through the park, but that's quite different. Leave the busy folks to it - and be nice to the ones who maybe would appreciate a natter
I don't know what a "natter" is, but I think we're in agreement
Just a random aimless chat might be a UK phrasing! 2 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
You missed what I said.
I don't take issue with human psychology, I took issue with you saying that she needs to change the way that she looks in order to stop being harassed. The person who is doing the harassing is the one who needs to make a change.
Would it be nice if the harasser had a lightbulb moment wherein he realized his behavior was wrong and did not repeat it from that point forward? Yes, of course. However, if a person is living in reality and not in fantasy land, she'll realize that she cannot dictate/restrict/change the harasser's behaviors. She can only change her own behavior. To me it makes sense to *try* to develop skills, or a look or whatever you want to call it, that *might* deter harassment rather than insist on all harassers in the world seeing the light, which is never going to happen.9 -
I have had some success in coming flat out with it: "Do you have any idea how creepy you're being right now?" has caused a few to back off. Not all of them, though. Good thing I'm fast.8
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I saw that Runner's World article recently that was referenced above, and this line really stood out to me: "No matter how swift a woman's pace, it's impossible to outrun harassment."
It's disheartening that this is the reality. I think of my runs as my personal time to clear my head and relax. I usually try to just ignore the people who make comments about my body. I find it better to not engage. It is frightening when you're just jogging through your neighborhood and a car with several men slows down to drive next to you and make comments. It's unnerving when you keep crossing paths with someone during your run and each time you run past them they make a new comment at you. I always try to stay aware of my surroundings when I'm out, but it just plain sucks that this is the reality. It's not going to stop me from running, but no one -men or women - should have to deal with this crap.4 -
I saw that Runner's World article recently that was referenced above, and this line really stood out to me: "No matter how swift a woman's pace, it's impossible to outrun harassment."
It's disheartening that this is the reality. I think of my runs as my personal time to clear my head and relax. I usually try to just ignore the people who make comments about my body. I find it better to not engage. It is frightening when you're just jogging through your neighborhood and a car with several men slows down to drive next to you and make comments. It's unnerving when you keep crossing paths with someone during your run and each time you run past them they make a new comment at you. I always try to stay aware of my surroundings when I'm out, but it just plain sucks that this is the reality. It's not going to stop me from running, but no one -men or women - should have to deal with this crap.1 -
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »
You can take issue with human psychology all you want. I don't care.TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
You missed what I said.
I don't take issue with human psychology, I took issue with you saying that she needs to change the way that she looks in order to stop being harassed. The person who is doing the harassing is the one who needs to make a change.
Would it be nice if the harasser had a lightbulb moment wherein he realized his behavior was wrong and did not repeat it from that point forward? Yes, of course. However, if a person is living in reality and not in fantasy land, she'll realize that she cannot dictate/restrict/change the harasser's behaviors. She can only change her own behavior. To me it makes sense to *try* to develop skills, or a look or whatever you want to call it, that *might* deter harassment rather than insist on all harassers in the world seeing the light, which is never going to happen.
I never said that she shouldn't take her own precautions - we're in agreement there.
But I dislike when blame is put on the person being harassed.
It's hard to find the happy place in between letting fear control your actions and not giving a *kitten*. I'm going to wear clothes that are most practical and comfortable for my run, and choose the most convenient route for me, but I also do not run without a phone, or at night.0 -
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
woman don't have to be pretty to get it...and not all pretty woman get it...
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Strong_Savannah wrote: »On Sunday evening I decided to run up to the gym. There is a bowling alley/bar across the street from the gym, and as I am approaching, I see 3 guys sitting outside smoking.
I wouldn't run through the bowling alley again. The area sounds too remote. Run on the main street even if it's longer. These guys are probably just annoying, but you never know.
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.1 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.40 -
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I like how this woman handles it: http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/2014/06/cardsagainstharassment/
Also, I'll second that it only happens when I'm either by myself or just with other women. If I'm with a male, whether it's my husband or not, I don't get harassed. And it thoroughly pisses me off that I feel like I must be escorted by a male if out for a walk in order to avoid harassment.6 -
Strong_Savannah wrote: »On Sunday evening I decided to run up to the gym. There is a bowling alley/bar across the street from the gym, and as I am approaching, I see 3 guys sitting outside smoking.
I wouldn't run through the bowling alley again. The area sounds too remote. Run on the main street even if it's longer. These guys are probably just annoying, but you never know.
If she's running to the gym, and the bowling alley is across the road, that's kinda unavoidable. Also, a street with a bar and gym is hardly remote - just sadly sometimes stocked with idiots !
To the person who posted the comedy clip - that is probably the sort of thing that is needed to change this. From guys, to guys, highlighting how daft they're being and how many man points they're not winning. Ditto for similar behaviour from females.3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51-hepLP8J4
This discussion has been closed.
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