Starting KETO to help a friend

gearhead426hemi

I have a friend that is going through some rough times and has put on a lot of weight. He asked me to diet and workout to help him get back at it. I have done Atkins so whats the real difference between KETO & Atkins?

snickerscharlie

You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.

It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.

HeidiGrrrl

Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.

kshama2001

Keto is one of many ways to achieve a calorie deficit. Works great for people who are satiated by fat and won't miss carbs. Since satiety is very individual, your friend is asking a lot of you to adopt his way of eating. You wouldn't be a bad friend by declining, and you could refer him here to the Low Carb group, which I imagine includes lots of Ketoers. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

However, if you liked Atkins and want to give Keto a shot, see the above group for more. In a nutshell, while they are both low carb, Keto is high fat and Atkins is high protein.

llhanp04

5 days into Keto. I chose Keto because sugar is a major problem for me. Definitely not hungry! Down almost 5 pounds. Managing my sweet tooth by using Mio flavoring in a couple of glassesof water per day.
Breakfast is a challenge. Already tiring of sausage, bacon, & eggs. May try keto muffins this weekend if I can find Swerve locally. Best of luck!

kshama2001

HeidiGrrrl wrote: »

Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.

Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?

Sunna_W

Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?

Depends on the individual's ability to store / use carbs.

Some people can't lose weight while maintaining a calorie deficit on the traditional American diet, which typically includes high carbs / sugars.

For myself, I found that by maintaining a moderate calorie deficit while restricting sugar and carbs and increasing my protein and fat, I lost weight, inches and body fat. But, that's just my personal experience.

KeithWhiteJr

snickerscharlie wrote: »

You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.

It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.

That didn't answer his question at all. And for some, Keto is the best way to keep calories in check without feeling hungry all day or bingeing.

I read on another site that the difference is:

Atkins = high fat - high protein - low carb.
Ketogenic = high fat - moderate protein - low carb.
Paleo = high fat - grain free - dairy free - low carb - moderate protein.

kshama2001

Sunna_W wrote: »

Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?

Depends on the individual's ability to store / use carbs.

Some people can't lose weight while maintaining a calorie deficit on the traditional American diet, which typically includes high carbs / sugars.

For myself, I found that by maintaining a moderate calorie deficit while restricting sugar and carbs and increasing my protein and fat, I lost weight, inches and body fat. But, that's just my personal experience.

I would find a hard time maintaining a calorie deficit on the SAD because it wouldn't satiate me, and I am free to eat more food.

However, in a laboratory (or prison) situation where access to food was controlled, everyone would lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what they were fed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment#Goals_and_methods

...Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni.

mmapags

snickerscharlie wrote: »

You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.

It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.

This^. If a keto diet is preferred, fine. But it is not a necessity for weight loss. There has never been a study or a meta-analysis that has shown a metabolic advantage for keto over calorie reduction.

nvmomketo

A ketogenic diet is simply a diet that limits carbs enough that one is in ketosis all the time - usually under 20-50g but active individuals who time thier carbs around exercise may be able to go higher.

The old Atkins was higher protein and very low carbs; I believe it discouraged dairy too. The New Atkins is not as high in protein nor does it go as low in carbs. It's Phase 1/induction is a ketogenic diet. You start with 2 weeks of very low carb and then have the option to continue it a while or start adding in more carbs of the more nutritious variety.

Ketosis is a macro count. Atkins is based on certain foods that will give you different macro amounts depending on what phase you are in. Atkins will limit some some foods whereas ketosis can be approached as a IIFYM sort of diet - technically you could eat bread if you wanted to, but it won't be much, and it will displace more nutritious carbs.

ninerbuff

HeidiGrrrl wrote: »

Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.

Please stop. If carbs are so bad, then why are Asian countries who eat a good amount of them, not having the same issues as obese countries?
This dogma of carbs being "bad" is another way of "indoctrinating" unknowledgeable people in the field of physiology and biology.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

mmapags

HeidiGrrrl wrote: »

Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.

So much no! You totally misunderstand the role of insulin. It is not a fat storage hormone. It is a nutrient shuttle hormone. There will only be storage of nutrients in an energy surplus. As far as your political diatribe, it is just inappropriate.

ninerbuff

llhanp04 wrote: »

5 days into Keto. I chose Keto because sugar is a major problem for me. Definitely not hungry! Down almost 5 pounds. Managing my sweet tooth by using Mio flavoring in a couple of glassesof water per day.
Breakfast is a challenge. Already tiring of sausage, bacon, & eggs. May try keto muffins this weekend if I can find Swerve locally. Best of luck!

It's only been 5 days and you're struggling. Realize that if you're NOT willing to give up carbs for life, then this diet is a TEMPORARY FIX. It's the reason that people who diet on ANY DIET that's overly restrictive, have a 90% failure rate.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

To the OP, you can be SUPPORTIVE of what he does, but you don't need to uptake what he does if you're not needing to.
It's your friends uptaking and he needs to want to do and complete it. I've seen other SO's and friends get the blame as the supporting party for not following the same program and being the cause of their failure.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ritzvin

ditto what most of those above have said. Changing your diet (other than meals you eat together) is kind of an absurd request. If the friend has moderation or portioning issues with starchy foods (not uncommon), then keto/low carb/Atkins/.. might be helpful (especially if they don't want to bother weighing & logging food..as far as I can tell, most Americans have no idea what a single-ish sized portion of pasta/cereal/rice looks like). If those portioning/moderation problems apply to meat & dairy, then it might not work.

ETA: cutting out just the calorie-dense starch items is probably a better idea to start with (assuming they haven't tried that)(It might be a challenge enough on its own) then going 100% keto.

gearhead426hemi

Thanks everyone for the advise and links. The only reason I agreed to do his diet is his doctor recommended this diet due to his medical history. I agreed to do his diet if he agreed to do my workouts so I will get even with him on the workout side. It will be hard to give up fruit because I have a farm with a fruit orchard and we have dairy goats for cheese and milk. Good news is I can still eat the goat and sheep meat on his diet so at least my full freezer wont go to waste. I could stand to lose 10-15 pounds but that's not my main focus or reason just want to help a friend out. What's 90 days going to hurt in the large scheme of things.

tiffaninghs

my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend

lemurcat12

Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?

gearhead426hemi

tiffaninghs wrote: »

my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend

Good for you achieving what you did. You look great!!!!

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?

He works at a hospital and the cardiologist ran some tests on him and suggested keto for his weight loss and for overall health.

lemurcat12

gearhead426hemi wrote: »

tiffaninghs wrote: »

my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend

Good for you achieving what you did. You look great!!!!

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?

He works at a hospital and the cardiologist ran some tests on him and suggested keto for his weight loss and for overall health.

Oh, I understood that from your prior post, just wondering if the doctor gave him a specific kind of keto plan (which may or may not be like Atkins) or just said do keto (which is more flexible, as it's really just eat a reasonable amount of protein for your size, less than 50 net carbs (some say less), the rest fat).