Starting KETO to help a friend
gearhead426hemi
Posts: 919 Member
I have a friend that is going through some rough times and has put on a lot of weight. He asked me to diet and workout to help him get back at it. I have done Atkins so whats the real difference between KETO & Atkins?
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Replies
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You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.
It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.16 -
Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.34
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Keto is one of many ways to achieve a calorie deficit. Works great for people who are satiated by fat and won't miss carbs. Since satiety is very individual, your friend is asking a lot of you to adopt his way of eating. You wouldn't be a bad friend by declining, and you could refer him here to the Low Carb group, which I imagine includes lots of Ketoers. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
However, if you liked Atkins and want to give Keto a shot, see the above group for more. In a nutshell, while they are both low carb, Keto is high fat and Atkins is high protein.4 -
5 days into Keto. I chose Keto because sugar is a major problem for me. Definitely not hungry! Down almost 5 pounds. Managing my sweet tooth by using Mio flavoring in a couple of glassesof water per day.
Breakfast is a challenge. Already tiring of sausage, bacon, & eggs. May try keto muffins this weekend if I can find Swerve locally. Best of luck!1 -
HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?7 -
Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?
Depends on the individual's ability to store / use carbs.
Some people can't lose weight while maintaining a calorie deficit on the traditional American diet, which typically includes high carbs / sugars.
For myself, I found that by maintaining a moderate calorie deficit while restricting sugar and carbs and increasing my protein and fat, I lost weight, inches and body fat. But, that's just my personal experience.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.
It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.
That didn't answer his question at all. And for some, Keto is the best way to keep calories in check without feeling hungry all day or bingeing.
I read on another site that the difference is:
Atkins = high fat - high protein - low carb.
Ketogenic = high fat - moderate protein - low carb.
Paleo = high fat - grain free - dairy free - low carb - moderate protein.1 -
Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?
Depends on the individual's ability to store / use carbs.
Some people can't lose weight while maintaining a calorie deficit on the traditional American diet, which typically includes high carbs / sugars.
For myself, I found that by maintaining a moderate calorie deficit while restricting sugar and carbs and increasing my protein and fat, I lost weight, inches and body fat. But, that's just my personal experience.
I would find a hard time maintaining a calorie deficit on the SAD because it wouldn't satiate me, and I am free to eat more food.
However, in a laboratory (or prison) situation where access to food was controlled, everyone would lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what they were fed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment#Goals_and_methods
...Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »You don't need to do either keto or Atkins to lose weight.
It's all about eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of what foods those calories come from.
This^. If a keto diet is preferred, fine. But it is not a necessity for weight loss. There has never been a study or a meta-analysis that has shown a metabolic advantage for keto over calorie reduction.4 -
A ketogenic diet is simply a diet that limits carbs enough that one is in ketosis all the time - usually under 20-50g but active individuals who time thier carbs around exercise may be able to go higher.
The old Atkins was higher protein and very low carbs; I believe it discouraged dairy too. The New Atkins is not as high in protein nor does it go as low in carbs. It's Phase 1/induction is a ketogenic diet. You start with 2 weeks of very low carb and then have the option to continue it a while or start adding in more carbs of the more nutritious variety.
Ketosis is a macro count. Atkins is based on certain foods that will give you different macro amounts depending on what phase you are in. Atkins will limit some some foods whereas ketosis can be approached as a IIFYM sort of diet - technically you could eat bread if you wanted to, but it won't be much, and it will displace more nutritious carbs.3 -
Please stop. If carbs are so bad, then why are Asian countries who eat a good amount of them, not having the same issues as obese countries?HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
This dogma of carbs being "bad" is another way of "indoctrinating" unknowledgeable people in the field of physiology and biology.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
So much no! You totally misunderstand the role of insulin. It is not a fat storage hormone. It is a nutrient shuttle hormone. There will only be storage of nutrients in an energy surplus. As far as your political diatribe, it is just inappropriate.13 -
It's only been 5 days and you're struggling. Realize that if you're NOT willing to give up carbs for life, then this diet is a TEMPORARY FIX. It's the reason that people who diet on ANY DIET that's overly restrictive, have a 90% failure rate.5 days into Keto. I chose Keto because sugar is a major problem for me. Definitely not hungry! Down almost 5 pounds. Managing my sweet tooth by using Mio flavoring in a couple of glassesof water per day.
Breakfast is a challenge. Already tiring of sausage, bacon, & eggs. May try keto muffins this weekend if I can find Swerve locally. Best of luck!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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To the OP, you can be SUPPORTIVE of what he does, but you don't need to uptake what he does if you're not needing to.
It's your friends uptaking and he needs to want to do and complete it. I've seen other SO's and friends get the blame as the supporting party for not following the same program and being the cause of their failure.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 6 -
ditto what most of those above have said. Changing your diet (other than meals you eat together) is kind of an absurd request. If the friend has moderation or portioning issues with starchy foods (not uncommon), then keto/low carb/Atkins/.. might be helpful (especially if they don't want to bother weighing & logging food..as far as I can tell, most Americans have no idea what a single-ish sized portion of pasta/cereal/rice looks like). If those portioning/moderation problems apply to meat & dairy, then it might not work.
ETA: cutting out just the calorie-dense starch items is probably a better idea to start with (assuming they haven't tried that)(It might be a challenge enough on its own) then going 100% keto.2 -
Thanks everyone for the advise and links. The only reason I agreed to do his diet is his doctor recommended this diet due to his medical history. I agreed to do his diet if he agreed to do my workouts so I will get even with him on the workout side. It will be hard to give up fruit because I have a farm with a fruit orchard and we have dairy goats for cheese and milk. Good news is I can still eat the goat and sheep meat on his diet so at least my full freezer wont go to waste. I could stand to lose 10-15 pounds but that's not my main focus or reason just want to help a friend out. What's 90 days going to hurt in the large scheme of things.7
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my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend1
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Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?0
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tiffaninghs wrote: »my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend
Good for you achieving what you did. You look great!!!!lemurcat12 wrote: »Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?
He works at a hospital and the cardiologist ran some tests on him and suggested keto for his weight loss and for overall health.3 -
gearhead426hemi wrote: »tiffaninghs wrote: »my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend
Good for you achieving what you did. You look great!!!!lemurcat12 wrote: »Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?
He works at a hospital and the cardiologist ran some tests on him and suggested keto for his weight loss and for overall health.
Oh, I understood that from your prior post, just wondering if the doctor gave him a specific kind of keto plan (which may or may not be like Atkins) or just said do keto (which is more flexible, as it's really just eat a reasonable amount of protein for your size, less than 50 net carbs (some say less), the rest fat).1 -
The doctor said to follow the basic structure of the plan and gave him a starting point with carbs and list of foods and meals to eat and what to avoid. The doctor told him to avoid a lot of the " fad " keto in a box stuff and stick to the raw version of the diet.lemurcat12 wrote: »gearhead426hemi wrote: »tiffaninghs wrote: »my profile pic is because of keto/high fat. im now high carb because im vegan and i can only maintain barely lose.. thats awesome that ur helping out ur friend
Good for you achieving what you did. You look great!!!!lemurcat12 wrote: »Atkins induction is basically keto. Does your friend have some prescribed keto program that the doctor is recommending, or just aiming for low carb, high fat?
He works at a hospital and the cardiologist ran some tests on him and suggested keto for his weight loss and for overall health.
Oh, I understood that from your prior post, just wondering if the doctor gave him a specific kind of keto plan (which may or may not be like Atkins) or just said do keto (which is more flexible, as it's really just eat a reasonable amount of protein for your size, less than 50 net carbs (some say less), the rest fat).
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i will say the only thing is keto made me smell really bad and made my skin super horrible but i was only eating a bunch of saturated fats like bacon, jerky, filet mignon and shrimp.. day in day out.. ooh and lots of steamed crab legs3
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You're super sweet for being supportive. My caution is you're about to embark on a restrictive diet that some do well on and some don't. Be sure and research keto flu.
The other caution I have is make sure he doesn't hang his success on whether or not you keep to this diet. If you decide it's too restrictive, he needs to not decide to stop too. It's his health and ultimately his journey. You're not responsible for how or whether or not he finishes.4 -
tiffaninghs wrote: »i will say the only thing is keto made me smell really bad and made my skin super horrible but i was only eating a bunch of saturated fats like bacon, jerky, filet mignon and shrimp.. day in day out.. ooh and lots of steamed crab legs
I have a farm and live in Washington State so hoping to incorporate as much from my farm and fresh from the lake or ocean as possible. From what I have read I have to avoid veggies that grow under ground and ones high in starch but everything else is ok. We have TONS of peppers, cucumbers, zucchini and onions so I plan on lots of stir fry. I butcher our own goats, sheep and birds so I have a freezer full of meat. We get half a dozen eggs a day from our chickens and we have razor clams in the freezer so I am hoping that will help keep me focused. I plan on making a lot of jerky for snacks to keep with me when I am out and about.
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Sounds like you are all set.
I did it for a while, and focused on lots of vegetables plus protein as the basis of my meals (my breakfasts were already vegetable omelets, so that was easy), and would definitely recommend that approach, which I enjoyed (it's not that hard to get plenty of fat and feels decadent that you can add olive oil or butter or cheese without worrying about it, or of course avocado and nuts). Some of the current keto plans that seem popular are SUPER low carb, way lower than I could get even just focusing on non starchy veg as my source of carbs, and I don't understand what the deal is with that, really. Glad the doctor gave your friend some guidelines.
I found keto pretty easy when I was doing it, never got the keto flu (I was already low carb, but not especially so, around 120 or so, but I did use salt liberally for a while as I was advised that that would help stave it off). I could feel the sluggishness in my running for about 10 days and then it went back to normal.
I stopped because of summer fruit and then corn season (I don't live on a farm, but get a farm box, and have to use what I have, and plus I love summer fruit). I might do it again in late fall or winter, not sure.
Nice of you to support your friend and perhaps it will really catch on with him and he'll do well with it.3 -
HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
Lol. No. Nothing you say has been scientifically backed up.3 -
HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
I have been eating avg 280grams of carbs for the past 40 days. Still lost 10 pounds because of deficit. I drink 6-7 small cups of tea everyday, add extra sugar to my cup because I like it extra sweet.
Ps. I'm expecting the sugar industry to deposit money in my account within 4-7 days5 -
I heard about keto for years, and didn't buy it, but after watching a friend lose a lot of weight, I decided that I'd tried everything else, and started reading up on it. I'm now three months in, and it already appears to have made a dramatic difference in my health (though the jury's not completely in, I go for a follow up blood panel at the end of this month, having done a "before" panel). I will say that of course this way of eating isn't for everyone. I used to be a vegetarian, but my body just hated it. I felt horrible. It wasn't for me. Keto is working very well for me. It may or may not work for you, but it's worth a fair look. One thing I noticed is that a LOT of people do it wrong, and eat nothing but fatty meats and cheese. Actually, some people find that they need to eliminate dairy entirely. Most don't. Here's my honest personal experience so far:
- I'm actually eating way more veggies than I did when I was eating "normal."
- I've lost 16 pounds so far.
- I've stopped snoring.
- I no longer have an "afternoon slump."
- I am no longer ravenous in the mornings, and now have a dramatically different relationship with food, viewing it much more as fuel, though I still love food and eat very well.
- I never get that "oh god, too full" feeling after a meal.
- I have completely stopped binging, and my sweet tooth is GONE.
- I had a LOT of GI issues for the past several years, and those are completely gone.
- My skin's better than it's been in years.
- My joints have stopped aching.
- I have a lot more energy than I did.
- Even my allergies have improved (I usually am in hell this time of year).
Honestly, I feel almost a decade younger. I suspect that I may have low-level allergies to corn or wheat or rice, and was in a constant state of inflammation before. My only regret is that I didn't try this years ago when I first heard about it (well, and I do miss beer, but luckily, I love whiskey!). So for me, unless something truly dramatic shows up in my blood tests, I think I'm keto/low carb for life. There's an excellent podcast called 2 Keto Dudes that has lots of information, and Reddit has a ton of information on r/keto and r/ketoscience, and r/xxketo is full of tips specifically for women. There's bad info in there as well, but if you read deeply, you can spot the errors right away.4 -
Marrlee747 wrote: »I heard about keto for years, and didn't buy it, but after watching a friend lose a lot of weight, I decided that I'd tried everything else, and started reading up on it. I'm now three months in, and it already appears to have made a dramatic difference in my health (though the jury's not completely in, I go for a follow up blood panel at the end of this month, having done a "before" panel). I will say that of course this way of eating isn't for everyone. I used to be a vegetarian, but my body just hated it. I felt horrible. It wasn't for me. Keto is working very well for me. It may or may not work for you, but it's worth a fair look. One thing I noticed is that a LOT of people do it wrong, and eat nothing but fatty meats and cheese. Actually, some people find that they need to eliminate dairy entirely. Most don't. Here's my honest personal experience so far:
- I'm actually eating way more veggies than I did when I was eating "normal."
- I've lost 16 pounds so far.
- I've stopped snoring.
- I no longer have an "afternoon slump."
- I am no longer ravenous in the mornings, and now have a dramatically different relationship with food, viewing it much more as fuel, though I still love food and eat very well.
- I never get that "oh god, too full" feeling after a meal.
- I have completely stopped binging, and my sweet tooth is GONE.
- I had a LOT of GI issues for the past several years, and those are completely gone.
- My skin's better than it's been in years.
- My joints have stopped aching.
- I have a lot more energy than I did.
- Even my allergies have improved (I usually am in hell this time of year).
Honestly, I feel almost a decade younger. I suspect that I may have low-level allergies to corn or wheat or rice, and was in a constant state of inflammation before. My only regret is that I didn't try this years ago when I first heard about it (well, and I do miss beer, but luckily, I love whiskey!). So for me, unless something truly dramatic shows up in my blood tests, I think I'm keto/low carb for life. There's an excellent podcast called 2 Keto Dudes that has lots of information, and Reddit has a ton of information on r/keto and r/ketoscience, and r/xxketo is full of tips specifically for women. There's bad info in there as well, but if you read deeply, you can spot the errors right away.
with keto its high fat, so if someone wants to eat fatty meats and cheese that is fine, they can still lose weight if in a caloric deficit. and if you love whiskey how can you drink it if you have a corn/wheat allergy? depending on type many whiskeys are made from those things.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »HeidiGrrrl wrote: »Atkins is high protein, moderate fat and low carb. Keto is high fat, moderate protein and very low carb. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, thus triggering the insulin response, which is the mechanism by which we gain weight (insulin is the fat-storing hormone, which is why carbs are bad for you--ignore the other poster, for they know not of what they speak, having been indoctrinated in the false narrative put forth by the sugar industry and our own US government, having silenced the actual science behind them all in favor of the Almighty Dollar). Atkins allows certain foods, which keto does not. There are plenty of sources on the internet you can research to find out exactly how to do it and do it correctly.
Let me see if I understand you. If someone were to eat a high carb diet, yet maintain a calorie deficit, they would not lose weight due to the fat-storing properties of carbs?
Oh noooes! I'm a statistical outlier!
I've lost all the weight I wanted to lose by eating a fairly high carb diet, about 60% mostly. Why? Because I like carb and cannot digest and pull energy out of fats well. Of course I didn't only eat snacks as they hardly keep me full but a varied diet with lots of fresh stuff. Yummy!
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