Of refeeds and diet breaks
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Had a refeed proportion lunch of baked potato, chilli beans, cottage cheese, and hard cheese. If that doesn't shut my stomach up, nothing will. Now to wait for it to settle and do my damn strength training!
It is blessedly cooler today, both outside and in.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Had a refeed proportion lunch of baked potato, chilli beans, cottage cheese, and hard cheese. If that doesn't shut my stomach up, nothing will. Now to wait for it to settle and do my damn strength training!
It is blessedly cooler today, both outside and in.
yum - baked potato with beans and cheese was a meal I had for dinner most nights when I was younger, so good!2 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Had a refeed proportion lunch of baked potato, chilli beans, cottage cheese, and hard cheese. If that doesn't shut my stomach up, nothing will. Now to wait for it to settle and do my damn strength training!
It is blessedly cooler today, both outside and in.
yum - baked potato with beans and cheese was a meal I had for dinner most nights when I was younger, so good!
I have had very few baked potatoes in the past three years, until instituting refeeds, because at deficit-friendly proportions, they just weren't satiating for me. I also had one with garlic butter the other night, first time I've put butter on a baked potato in over three years. It was bliss.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Hopefully this isn't too tangential to the overall re-feed/diet break theme - I've been planning the second half of my weight-loss process and am seriously considering trying out a feast-fast protocol. I'm already eating at or above maintenance 1-2 days a week, and am curious to see the effect of going to one day at a surplus followed by a fasting day. I'm hoping this will keep up whatever benefits I've enjoyed from those maintenance/surplus days, plus it would allow me a "free" day once a week AND I wouldn't have to reduce my calories on deficit days from where I am right now (about 1500/day) but I would be able to lower my overall average, which is going to be necessary if I want to hit my goal weight by the end of next year (which should be fairly doable - I've got 34 lbs to go to hit my goal at the top of my "normal" BMI range).
I've really enjoyed lurking on this thread, but so far haven't considered myself as a candidate for a diet break both because of my higher BMI (I'll hit "overweight" in January, most likely) and because I just haven't experienced any noticeably negative physical or mental side-effects of sustained deficit, which I'm currently crediting largely to those regular maintenance/surplus days. That said, I've still been in an overall deficit for six and a half months now and am aiming for another seven and a half before I start to raise calories again, so I'd like to be ahead of the game if a break becomes beneficial.
Of course, the consensus seems to be that you want to take the break *before* you think you need it, so I'm not sure how that's going to work. Hopefully this thread will still be here by then.
Not remotely tangential!! And a hell of a lot more on topic than a lot of the stuff in here
(though we have established that cats and dogs are never a derail).
I'm definitely in the camp of taking a break before you need it, so you don't get to that point. That down regulation of hormones is happening, whether you can feel it or not. Though, your current strategy is probably staving them off more than if you were at a straight 24/7 deficit.
I don't see why your strategy wouldn't work, so long as the fast day is sustainable for you (by fast, do you mean all out fast, or as in like 5:2 where you're doing something like 500 cals on those days?). I'd still consider working full diet breaks into your plan though, especially as you get closer to 'normal' BMI range.
Puppies and kitties are always on point! I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I guess I was thinking of starting with something like the 5:2 diet - my spouse and I have standing movie night Sundays at 8:30, so I figured I’d try fasting until then and eating a normal dinner. The goal might be to move to a full day fast, but maybe not. I’m going to have to skim the thread again to strategize on where to fit a full break - it’s one thing to slot one in when one is struggling, but I’m not quite sure how best to plan a preemptive strike.
I think pre-emptive strike is really when it suits you. So, Christmas period is an obvious one, holidays, other special events, etc. There are a few people in the thread holding out to do one, or do a second one, over Christmas break.
Yeah, I’m afraid there’s not enough Chinese food in the state to make a Christmas diet break worth it (I don’t really observe Christmas), but spring might be nice - lots of birthdays and patios opening up and so on.
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Hopefully this isn't too tangential to the overall re-feed/diet break theme - I've been planning the second half of my weight-loss process and am seriously considering trying out a feast-fast protocol. I'm already eating at or above maintenance 1-2 days a week, and am curious to see the effect of going to one day at a surplus followed by a fasting day. I'm hoping this will keep up whatever benefits I've enjoyed from those maintenance/surplus days, plus it would allow me a "free" day once a week AND I wouldn't have to reduce my calories on deficit days from where I am right now (about 1500/day) but I would be able to lower my overall average, which is going to be necessary if I want to hit my goal weight by the end of next year (which should be fairly doable - I've got 34 lbs to go to hit my goal at the top of my "normal" BMI range).
I've really enjoyed lurking on this thread, but so far haven't considered myself as a candidate for a diet break both because of my higher BMI (I'll hit "overweight" in January, most likely) and because I just haven't experienced any noticeably negative physical or mental side-effects of sustained deficit, which I'm currently crediting largely to those regular maintenance/surplus days. That said, I've still been in an overall deficit for six and a half months now and am aiming for another seven and a half before I start to raise calories again, so I'd like to be ahead of the game if a break becomes beneficial.
Of course, the consensus seems to be that you want to take the break *before* you think you need it, so I'm not sure how that's going to work. Hopefully this thread will still be here by then.
Not remotely tangential!! And a hell of a lot more on topic than a lot of the stuff in here (though we have established that cats and dogs are never a derail).
I'm definitely in the camp of taking a break before you need it, so you don't get to that point. That down regulation of hormones is happening, whether you can feel it or not. Though, your current strategy is probably staving them off more than if you were at a straight 24/7 deficit.
I don't see why your strategy wouldn't work, so long as the fast day is sustainable for you (by fast, do you mean all out fast, or as in like 5:2 where you're doing something like 500 cals on those days?). I'd still consider working full diet breaks into your plan though, especially as you get closer to 'normal' BMI range.
Puppies and kitties are always on point! I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I guess I was thinking of starting with something like the 5:2 diet - my spouse and I have standing movie night Sundays at 8:30, so I figured I’d try fasting until then and eating a normal dinner. The goal might be to move to a full day fast, but maybe not. I’m going to have to skim the thread again to strategize on where to fit a full break - it’s one thing to slot one in when one is struggling, but I’m not quite sure how best to plan a preemptive strike.
Feast/fast eating patterns are fine as long as your weekly average is where you planned it to be and aren't jarred by post-feast morning weigh-ins. It's part of the undulating strategy I had in mind when mentioning it previously. Some days will be higher, other days might be lower - or in the case of fasting, none at all. There are some studies that support ADF or alternating very low calorie days to help insulin sensitivity.
Psychologically, it has an added effect that not everyday needs to be static or in the worse case scenario, a feasting period. Aadam Ali's phrase that stuck with me is "fasting is like a refeed for the mind."
http://physiqonomics.com/philosophies-dieting-fasting-spike-days/2 -
I've been trying to keep an eye on this thread but it has been very active...I have my first diet break coming up next week (!) Is it recommended to not log during this period of time?0
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I've been trying to keep an eye on this thread but it has been very active...I have my first diet break coming up next week (!) Is it recommended to not log during this period of time?
I would personally not have diet break without logging. I just know what happens when i don't log and it's not pretty - to me, having a diet break still requires eating a certain amount of calories (maintenance), not just having a free for all.
I also like having an idea of my intake to compare against my weight fluctuations/changes.
I sometimes have breaks from logging - it can make me more stressed as I question my choices, portion sizes, tend to over eat or undereating etc.6 -
I've been trying to keep an eye on this thread but it has been very active...I have my first diet break coming up next week (!) Is it recommended to not log during this period of time?
Opposite. This is a controlled break, not a free for all, and you want to be sure you are actually hitting maintenance cals every day. If you want to go over, that's up to you, so long as you are aware that you will gain actual weight doing that, not just the usual more food in belly and replenished glycogen stores scale weight that will come off quickly once you're back at a deficit. How much will depend on how far over you go. Just Christmas Day, for example, meh, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, unless you go really all out. You also want to be sure you are getting at least 100-150g of carbs a day.
Did you read the diet break article linked in the OP? https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/3 -
Because it’s an intentional diet break, eating at maintence you need to log to ensure this is happening. Otherwise you could go too far under/over? I guess I was thinking that not logging helps in the psychological break of living in a calorie deficit, which I thought were included in the benefits of a “diet break”...1
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Because it’s an intentional diet break, eating at maintence you need to log to ensure this is happening. Otherwise you could go too far under/over? I guess I was thinking that not logging helps in the psychological break of living in a calorie deficit, which I thought were included in the benefits of a “diet break”...
Most people regain after weight loss as they stop logging and tracking their intake - they don't know what maintenance calories are.
Diet breaks in this circumstance are for the physical benefits of eating at maintenance for a period of time. If you want to not log, do that, but be aware of the possibility of weight gain or perhaps not eating enough to achieve the benefits.4 -
Because it’s an intentional diet break, eating at maintence you need to log to ensure this is happening. Otherwise you could go too far under/over? I guess I was thinking that not logging helps in the psychological break of living in a calorie deficit, which I thought were included in the benefits of a “diet break”...
But you're not at a calorie deficit for those two weeks. It's a psychological break from the day in, day out of sticking to a deficit. A lot of people get pretty gung ho about that, to the point of not wanting to go even one calorie over their allotment. Diet break takes that away (I essentially aimed for within 50 cals in either direction of TDEE, I figure that's good enough).
If you're someone who finds logging a massive chore then, yeah, not logging gives you a break from that. But do it at your own peril. As LivingLean said, that can go bad real quick. There's more than one person on these boards that completely dismisses diet breaks because they did it without logging for a vacation or whatever, gained weight, and were never able to get things fully back under control. Obviously that doesn't happen to everyone, and some people are very good at maintaining without logging (I happen to be one), but I really wouldn't advise it for this particular exercise.8 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Because it’s an intentional diet break, eating at maintence you need to log to ensure this is happening. Otherwise you could go too far under/over? I guess I was thinking that not logging helps in the psychological break of living in a calorie deficit, which I thought were included in the benefits of a “diet break”...
Most people regain after weight loss as they stop logging and tracking their intake - they don't know what maintenance calories are.
Diet breaks in this circumstance are for the physical benefits of eating at maintenance for a period of time. If you want to not log, do that, but be aware of the possibility of weight gain or perhaps not eating enough to achieve the benefits.
The bolded is a really important point that I was coming back to make. Do you know what your food to hit TDEE every day would look like? Most people don't. Diet breaks are also practice for that, because most people don't want to log for the rest of their lives.
As I said above, I'm pretty good at maintaining my weight without logging (until I'm not, usually a change in activity level bites me in the butt and I don't adjust my intake, and....). My maintenance 'strategy' in the past has also always been vastly different, ie not eating to daily TDEE, things just conveniently balanced out. Now that I have other goals (strength and building ma wee muscles), I want to know that I'm supporting my training with good nutrition and sufficient calories on a daily basis. So I'll continue logging in order to achieve that.4 -
I really wish that stupid eczema hadn't messed up my lovely data gathering. Mostly cos I'm way over cals today and want to know if I really am
(yes, I'm still hungry). I am planning to go for a walk/run, though currently watching the rain radar to see if the little rain cloud approaching my town is actually going to make it here.
I think even without solid data for the last few weeks we were pretty much of the conclusion that my Fitbit reads a bit low. I'm just not sure I'm ready to put that to the test. But I also don't want to lose more weight...
Meh, it's one day. Hopefully tomorrow normal hunger levels will return.0 -
ZOMG, I ran tonight guys!! Like, a proper run, not just a few short bursts during a walk (there were short bursts of walking as needed). Even Fitbit says I ran, so it must have happened. It's been, uh...not actually sure how long since I've run for that long. Months. And months. I had actually made a conscious decision to not start running again until I was at goal, because runger. But, at goal, so running. Though tonight's effort was to offset the considerable surplus I would have been at otherwise. Still at about a 250 cal surplus, but I can live with that. I ran!!
And it rained!! Finally. That was something like six weeks without measurable rain. It started really gently when I was not far from home on my run, and was sooooo nice
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Yay for running! How did it feel?
I'm torn with whether I'm doing a fun-run tomorrow night. It's put on by our local running club, and is a "holiday lights tour" thing, but it's not timed, so it would literally just be for fun... and although the lights would be pretty, I'm not sure that "pretty lights" are sufficient reason for doing a 4-mile run in 20F.0 -
Wonky brain messing with me currently. Scuppering all good intentions of working out. Lower level than when I'm at my worst nightmares are making an appearance thus ruining my sleep and compounding SAD lethargy. So that's delightful. Still managing a deficit though. Next weekend I start diet break. Yay festive food.1
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collectingblues wrote: »Yay for running! How did it feel?
I'm torn with whether I'm doing a fun-run tomorrow night. It's put on by our local running club, and is a "holiday lights tour" thing, but it's not timed, so it would literally just be for fun... and although the lights would be pretty, I'm not sure that "pretty lights" are sufficient reason for doing a 4-mile run in 20F.
Wouldn't the 20F negate the "fun" part of the "fun" run?
It would for me. I had all of these grand plans about running in the cold this winter. (This was back when I was still recovering from running). Yeah, it started getting colder, and the cold and my joints didn't play nicely together. So much for that.
Now I'm having all of these fatigue issues, so there's that. No cold exploits for me. I walk at a pretty good clip, but I don't think it's enough to keep me warm in that kind of cold.
Our family does a driving light tour every Christmas Eve. The best was the year we had snow flurries while we were making our little drive.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Wonky brain messing with me currently. Scuppering all good intentions of working out. Lower level than when I'm at my worst nightmares are making an appearance thus ruining my sleep and compounding SAD lethargy. So that's delightful. Still managing a deficit though. Next weekend I start diet break. Yay festive food.
Ugh. Sorry you're dealing with this now, and kudos to you for powering through with a deficit.
I'm going to start diet break post-Christmas. Hints have been dropped regarding treats being used to fill my stocking. I think scheduling a diet break to have maintenance calories to eat the treats sounds like a good plan.
Also, I am really just not feeling in the mood to bake myself any particular gluten free holiday treat this year. I'm not in the mood for anything. I just want all the candy.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Yay for running! How did it feel?
I'm torn with whether I'm doing a fun-run tomorrow night. It's put on by our local running club, and is a "holiday lights tour" thing, but it's not timed, so it would literally just be for fun... and although the lights would be pretty, I'm not sure that "pretty lights" are sufficient reason for doing a 4-mile run in 20F.
Wouldn't the 20F negate the "fun" part of the "fun" run?
It would for me. I had all of these grand plans about running in the cold this winter. (This was back when I was still recovering from running). Yeah, it started getting colder, and the cold and my joints didn't play nicely together. So much for that.
Now I'm having all of these fatigue issues, so there's that. No cold exploits for me. I walk at a pretty good clip, but I don't think it's enough to keep me warm in that kind of cold.
Our family does a driving light tour every Christmas Eve. The best was the year we had snow flurries while we were making our little drive.
Yeah, that's where I currently am with that plan. I'm all about doing timed races or training runs in that level of cold (my next half is in February, so alas, cold-running has to happen this year), but for fun? Maybe not so much.
If it were timed, I'd totally be on board -- that's the competitive side. But I'm not feeling the need when I don't get an actual result out of it...
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Hopefully this isn't too tangential to the overall re-feed/diet break theme - I've been planning the second half of my weight-loss process and am seriously considering trying out a feast-fast protocol. I'm already eating at or above maintenance 1-2 days a week, and am curious to see the effect of going to one day at a surplus followed by a fasting day. I'm hoping this will keep up whatever benefits I've enjoyed from those maintenance/surplus days, plus it would allow me a "free" day once a week AND I wouldn't have to reduce my calories on deficit days from where I am right now (about 1500/day) but I would be able to lower my overall average, which is going to be necessary if I want to hit my goal weight by the end of next year (which should be fairly doable - I've got 34 lbs to go to hit my goal at the top of my "normal" BMI range).
I've really enjoyed lurking on this thread, but so far haven't considered myself as a candidate for a diet break both because of my higher BMI (I'll hit "overweight" in January, most likely) and because I just haven't experienced any noticeably negative physical or mental side-effects of sustained deficit, which I'm currently crediting largely to those regular maintenance/surplus days. That said, I've still been in an overall deficit for six and a half months now and am aiming for another seven and a half before I start to raise calories again, so I'd like to be ahead of the game if a break becomes beneficial.
Of course, the consensus seems to be that you want to take the break *before* you think you need it, so I'm not sure how that's going to work. Hopefully this thread will still be here by then.
Not remotely tangential!! And a hell of a lot more on topic than a lot of the stuff in here (though we have established that cats and dogs are never a derail).
I'm definitely in the camp of taking a break before you need it, so you don't get to that point. That down regulation of hormones is happening, whether you can feel it or not. Though, your current strategy is probably staving them off more than if you were at a straight 24/7 deficit.
I don't see why your strategy wouldn't work, so long as the fast day is sustainable for you (by fast, do you mean all out fast, or as in like 5:2 where you're doing something like 500 cals on those days?). I'd still consider working full diet breaks into your plan though, especially as you get closer to 'normal' BMI range.
Puppies and kitties are always on point! I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I guess I was thinking of starting with something like the 5:2 diet - my spouse and I have standing movie night Sundays at 8:30, so I figured I’d try fasting until then and eating a normal dinner. The goal might be to move to a full day fast, but maybe not. I’m going to have to skim the thread again to strategize on where to fit a full break - it’s one thing to slot one in when one is struggling, but I’m not quite sure how best to plan a preemptive strike.
Feast/fast eating patterns are fine as long as your weekly average is where you planned it to be and aren't jarred by post-feast morning weigh-ins. It's part of the undulating strategy I had in mind when mentioning it previously. Some days will be higher, other days might be lower - or in the case of fasting, none at all. There are some studies that support ADF or alternating very low calorie days to help insulin sensitivity.
Psychologically, it has an added effect that not everyday needs to be static or in the worse case scenario, a feasting period. Aadam Ali's phrase that stuck with me is "fasting is like a refeed for the mind."
http://physiqonomics.com/philosophies-dieting-fasting-spike-days/
I've very used to post-surplus fluctuations at this point, so I'm not concerned about that aspect, and I've been averaging bimonthly since the spring because it just makes more sense with my life. And that link was exactly what I was reading earlier today - I've been following Ali for a while but hadn't run across that particular subject before, possibly because I've gotten so tired of the IF chatter that I kind of tune it out. I was one of those teenagers who was so against being trendy that I was basically controlled by trends more than the "cool" kids - I still have to fight the impulse to dismiss things simply because they're trendy.3
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