Of refeeds and diet breaks
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Haha, even I have yet to achieve a cal burn that high!! Best was 4695, and I'm not sure I could top that. I also don't know that I could eat 10,000 cals of food, unless I was allowed to chuck several litres of Coke in there too.
I think tomorrow I'll go back to lower cal lunch, because it really doesn't seem to make a difference to how hungry I am. Though that does mean buying a tiny supermarket avocado when I have four nice big ones refusing to ripen. Or, heaven forbid, thinking of something else for lunch.
Do you leave them sit out or put them in a paper bag to ripen? Mine always ripen within two days if I put them in a paper bag. I've left them to sit out and they take ages. I always keep paper bags on hand now just for avos.
Put an apple in the bag also. It off gases something that makes them ripen faster.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Haha, even I have yet to achieve a cal burn that high!! Best was 4695, and I'm not sure I could top that. I also don't know that I could eat 10,000 cals of food, unless I was allowed to chuck several litres of Coke in there too.
I think tomorrow I'll go back to lower cal lunch, because it really doesn't seem to make a difference to how hungry I am. Though that does mean buying a tiny supermarket avocado when I have four nice big ones refusing to ripen. Or, heaven forbid, thinking of something else for lunch.
Do you leave them sit out or put them in a paper bag to ripen? Mine always ripen within two days if I put them in a paper bag. I've left them to sit out and they take ages. I always keep paper bags on hand now just for avos.
I had just been letting them sit, because they were ripening so damn fast anyway. I run a cycle - buy my avs rock hard green and let them ripen. So the avs I buy one week are actually for the following week. I have one in a paper bag now in the hopes it will speed things up. Last time I did that the ones on the window sill ripened quicker
VintageFeline wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »See, I thought I was on the volume eater spectrum, but apparently not...
An NZ is the same with pumpkin, it's a vegetable. In winter pumpkin soup is one of my lunch staples. Stuffed pumpkin, either butternut or buttercup, is also awesome.
I too thought I was a volume eater. Turns out I'm a grazer. Or at least would be a grazer if I didn't eat proper meals. But an average meal keeps me going perfectly sufficiently negating the need to graze. Plus. I just like how food tastes.
Yeah, I think I'm a grazer too. I certainly am at the moment!!
Also, it's totally legit to drink a 300g glass of water before weighing yourself if you wake up with thirsty and with a headache, and then take what the scale says as true, right? Let's just go with that. 210 cal surplus yesterday, I thought I'd brought it up again a bit more than that with some bedtime cherries after my walk, but apparently not.
Have physio in half an hour. I expect this will be my last session, b/c other than occasional tightening of my IT band which I can manage myself, my left knee is a-ok.1 -
Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.3
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Why are you apologizing? It's OK to complain about things that bother you.4 -
collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Why are you apologizing? It's OK to complain about things that bother you.
I've been complaining to friends about all the scratches I've been getting from the tiny baby kitten, and then apologizing because what sort of MONSTER complains about a kitten!?5 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Hopefully this isn't too tangential to the overall re-feed/diet break theme - I've been planning the second half of my weight-loss process and am seriously considering trying out a feast-fast protocol. I'm already eating at or above maintenance 1-2 days a week, and am curious to see the effect of going to one day at a surplus followed by a fasting day. I'm hoping this will keep up whatever benefits I've enjoyed from those maintenance/surplus days, plus it would allow me a "free" day once a week AND I wouldn't have to reduce my calories on deficit days from where I am right now (about 1500/day) but I would be able to lower my overall average, which is going to be necessary if I want to hit my goal weight by the end of next year (which should be fairly doable - I've got 34 lbs to go to hit my goal at the top of my "normal" BMI range).
I've really enjoyed lurking on this thread, but so far haven't considered myself as a candidate for a diet break both because of my higher BMI (I'll hit "overweight" in January, most likely) and because I just haven't experienced any noticeably negative physical or mental side-effects of sustained deficit, which I'm currently crediting largely to those regular maintenance/surplus days. That said, I've still been in an overall deficit for six and a half months now and am aiming for another seven and a half before I start to raise calories again, so I'd like to be ahead of the game if a break becomes beneficial.
Of course, the consensus seems to be that you want to take the break *before* you think you need it, so I'm not sure how that's going to work. Hopefully this thread will still be here by then.
Not remotely tangential!! And a hell of a lot more on topic than a lot of the stuff in here
(though we have established that cats and dogs are never a derail).
I'm definitely in the camp of taking a break before you need it, so you don't get to that point. That down regulation of hormones is happening, whether you can feel it or not. Though, your current strategy is probably staving them off more than if you were at a straight 24/7 deficit.
I don't see why your strategy wouldn't work, so long as the fast day is sustainable for you (by fast, do you mean all out fast, or as in like 5:2 where you're doing something like 500 cals on those days?). I'd still consider working full diet breaks into your plan though, especially as you get closer to 'normal' BMI range.
Puppies and kitties are always on point! I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I guess I was thinking of starting with something like the 5:2 diet - my spouse and I have standing movie night Sundays at 8:30, so I figured I’d try fasting until then and eating a normal dinner. The goal might be to move to a full day fast, but maybe not. I’m going to have to skim the thread again to strategize on where to fit a full break - it’s one thing to slot one in when one is struggling, but I’m not quite sure how best to plan a preemptive strike.
Feast/fast eating patterns are fine as long as your weekly average is where you planned it to be and aren't jarred by post-feast morning weigh-ins. It's part of the undulating strategy I had in mind when mentioning it previously. Some days will be higher, other days might be lower - or in the case of fasting, none at all. There are some studies that support ADF or alternating very low calorie days to help insulin sensitivity.
Psychologically, it has an added effect that not everyday needs to be static or in the worse case scenario, a feasting period. Aadam Ali's phrase that stuck with me is "fasting is like a refeed for the mind."
http://physiqonomics.com/philosophies-dieting-fasting-spike-days/
I've very used to post-surplus fluctuations at this point, so I'm not concerned about that aspect, and I've been averaging bimonthly since the spring because it just makes more sense with my life. And that link was exactly what I was reading earlier today - I've been following Ali for a while but hadn't run across that particular subject before, possibly because I've gotten so tired of the IF chatter that I kind of tune it out. I was one of those teenagers who was so against being trendy that I was basically controlled by trends more than the "cool" kids - I still have to fight the impulse to dismiss things simply because they're trendy.
To your last statement, fasting has become a bit of a trend lately, at least within the zero carb/low carb/keto circles. IF has been around since leangains, so that's not too bad. Though, extended fasting for weight loss is completely petarded if that's the only and primary goal for doing a fast >24 hours. To sum up past debates, autophagy is great and all but no one truly understands its mechanisms or realizes that exercise is also considered fasting in fast forward, and that the true rewards of fasting induced autophagy come from the refeed/feasting period afterwards, which should be longer than the fasting period.
Anywho, before I get too off topic, you're familiar with Aadam's philosophy regarding nutrition so I think following his advice is reasonable. Not just because he's my international spirit animal either. Lol.
Thank you for the feed back - I really appreciate it! I've been doing some more reading and have found a few sources (including Aadam) mentioning that women should be cautious when it comes to fasting, so I think I'm definitely going to start with 14-16 hours and see how that suits. It's a little more aggressive than they recommend, but considering I already do 12 hours on post "feast" days not infrequently, I think adding a few hours on top should be fine. We'll see. This is the first time I've seen concerns about women fasting - presumably Islamic women have managed it fine for some time, so I'm not losing my mind, but I do appreciate the need for caution.
Looking ahead, I think late March/early April will make the most sense for a diet break - my birthday and my spouse's birthday are both in there, and we often do a joint party or two around that time anyhow. If all goes according to my hopefully conservative estimates, I should in the mid-150s at that point, less than 20 pounds over the top end of normal BMI, so that seems reasonable.
Fellow online friend and introvert, Amy Berger, has a really good rant about the fasting fad that low carb/keto women tend to implement, much to the nod of it being a trend. Granted, it doesn't have to just be within the low carb community, but that's the population that seeks it out with vigor. And while the term "amenorrhea" is tossed around for good measure, entraining ED patterns is also not something that would be a good look for fasting enthusiasts. As always, it's in context. I don't need to speak to something an adult can decide on their own, but considering the variety of personal stories in this thread alone, many of us have had experiences with not recognizing signs until it became hindsight.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/09/not-so-fast.html
Oh that's interesting, thanks for the link. I honestly hadn't thought about the idea that a main concern here would be lean young women who do too much cardio and already eat very low calorie diets but I suppose it makes sense in context. As it is, the only thing I have in common with that group would be the woman part. Even a partial fast day would only bring my weekly average down to around 1650/day. I think I might be something of an outlier even on MFP - a woman who has never dieted before or had any sort of eating issues whatsoever.
Not outlier at all, just a part of the population that doesn't really have anything wrong, so to speak, so this group gets no special shout outs or mentions because there's nothing bad to say lol... though, I suppose that actually might fall under an outlier at this current time since there are more unhealthy people than there are healthy. If you're weight stable, metabolically/psychologically/emotionally/physically healthy and active, you're practically good to go. Any endeavor you choose to pursue is welcome.2 -
collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Why are you apologizing? It's OK to complain about things that bother you.
Cos I'm me? I feel bad because I know others are frustrated by the lack of scale movement when it should be moving, and here's me dropping weight eating at a *kitten* surplus (supposedly).3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Haha that's like if I were to complain I'm actually having difficulty getting into a surplus. I literally don't have enough time in the day to eat. Though, I did buy a big *kitten* bag of sweet potato so hopefully I can cram that into my meals somewhere.1 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Why are you apologizing? It's OK to complain about things that bother you.
I've been complaining to friends about all the scratches I've been getting from the tiny baby kitten, and then apologizing because what sort of MONSTER complains about a kitten!?
This monster complains about a kitten. Because mine is devil incarnate. Good job he's cute and affectionate.5 -
Popping in to say I am so glad I found this tribe of people who are interested in the science behind all this. Reading and absorbing.7
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collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/
Yup. Dawn phenomenon is why I'm on a higher dose overnight, peaking at 5:30 a.m.
I've been type 1 for 35 years. Let's just say that, well, it's sort of like Nony and her having researched and tried everything for eczema. I'm comfortable making pump adjustments, and my endocrinologist has given me carte blanche to manage it how I feel best, since I generally have a good history with that. But it gets annoying and difficult when there's no true pattern, and I can't tease out what is actually going on, in absence of other hormonal factors.1 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, sorry for complaining about losing weight, it's weird, I know. But at this point I would like the scale to stop going down.
Why are you apologizing? It's OK to complain about things that bother you.
I've been complaining to friends about all the scratches I've been getting from the tiny baby kitten, and then apologizing because what sort of MONSTER complains about a kitten!?
Kittens are like cute furry bags of needles and sharps. Complain away.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
On Thursday Nony_Mouse ate through...okay, I'm not going to list every item, here's some screen shots ...and she was still hungry*
(that's 2568 cals for you kj illiterate people)
I think this is just PMS/late phase luteal hunger kicking in earlier than usual. At least I hope that's what it is. It's definitely hunger, not just 'mmmm, I want to eat that tasty thing!'. Deliberately running a 300 cal surplus today to counter apparent Fitbit underestimation combined with increased cal needs for womanly things. I'm a good way over that currently, including yet to be eaten dinner, but my usual evening perambulating will take care of the rest.
*not currently, just had a protein cookie. Give it an hour...
The volume eater in me is looking at that still hungry... I swear I could be an eating machine. Or a prize winning competitive eater.
Heh, I admit I sometimes look at friends' diaries and think 'omg, how can you possibly feel full on so little volume??'. Normal lunch is a cottage cheese and avocado mix (basically guac with cottage cheese) with either carrot sticks or cauliflower. I've been on a carrot kick lately, but maybe I'll grab a cauli tomorrow morning after physio when I get the stupid tiny avocado, cos more bang for calorie buck. If this is going to persist until Tuesday or Wednesday next week I need to get more savvy with the low cal filling stuff.
I'm expert at volume - I have to make myself cut back sometimes because it can get ridiculous. My dinner during the week (for the past few weeks) has been a mammoth salad... Slightly ridiculous.
About 250g lettuce/leaves
50g alfalfa sprouts, grated Beetroot, grated carrot, avocado
100g red cabbage, celery, tomato, cucumber, capsicum
200g pumpkin
... And a chunk of salmon. And sometimes rice mixed in.
I’m the same. I can stuff myself off 225g each of yellow squash, zucchini, and spinach + 230g egg white + 230g of canned chicken breast + turmeric & black pepper + hot sauce/calorie free dressing. Crap ton of volume ~ 500kcal, minimal fat, prioritized protein, lower carb, and voila, psmf lunch macros lol.
It’s truly not enjoyable or sustainable long term, but it is what it is when cutting season starts and vanity is a priority ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I cry at the carbs men can get away with and still be doing what is considered PSMF.
For me, your meal, sans the chicken since I'm veggie, is just dinner. Now, mind you, since I'm not doing PSMF, I add a whole egg and use some olive oil to get some fat in.
The total carbs for 8 oz of yellow squash, zucchini, and spinach are about 23g... 13g net carbs after subtracting 10g of fiber But even being vegetarian, that alone is about 12g protein, so it's pretty damn good. Though you'd have to eat more pounds of veggies to get adequate protein.. which is why I couldn't be. The efficiency of eating actual meat is just a lot easier on... gastric interests lmao
I make up for it in volume with the egg whites for protein. I'm good. I don't think veg are a good source of complete protein anyway.
All of my main sources of protein are still animal based.
I just really don't like meat.
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collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/
Yup. Dawn phenomenon is why I'm on a higher dose overnight, peaking at 5:30 a.m.
I've been type 1 for 35 years. Let's just say that, well, it's sort of like Nony and her having researched and tried everything for eczema. I'm comfortable making pump adjustments, and my endocrinologist has given me carte blanche to manage it how I feel best, since I generally have a good history with that. But it gets annoying and difficult when there's no true pattern, and I can't tease out what is actually going on, in absence of other hormonal factors.
Given that leptin governs insulin which also regulates cortisol, which is influenced by stress and physiologically responds to cellular status to demand or reject energy substrates, I'd say a lot of hormonal factors are actually at play.. and there's way too many of them to try to pin down since it's hard to address one without affecting the others. Though, if you and your endo have tried to find some correlation with better results, have you noticed any patterns with days (and preceding nights) that were particularly well controlled with morning numbers?
ETA: This may be geared towards more lada T1.5 or beta cell damaged T2s, but I just thought it was interesting to note in terms of alternative anti-hyperglycemic control
http://caloriesproper.com/glp-101/1 -
Terebynthia wrote: »Popping in to say I am so glad I found this tribe of people who are interested in the science behind all this. Reading and absorbing.
Welcome to the thread of science and animals.. seems those two go hand in hand across the entire realm.7 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/
Yup. Dawn phenomenon is why I'm on a higher dose overnight, peaking at 5:30 a.m.
I've been type 1 for 35 years. Let's just say that, well, it's sort of like Nony and her having researched and tried everything for eczema. I'm comfortable making pump adjustments, and my endocrinologist has given me carte blanche to manage it how I feel best, since I generally have a good history with that. But it gets annoying and difficult when there's no true pattern, and I can't tease out what is actually going on, in absence of other hormonal factors.
Given that leptin governs insulin which also regulates cortisol, which is influenced by stress and physiologically responds to cellular status to demand or reject energy substrates, I'd say a lot of hormonal factors are actually at play.. and there's way too many of them to try to pin down since it's hard to address one without affecting the others. Though, if you and your endo have tried to find some correlation with better results, have you noticed any patterns with days (and preceding nights) that were particularly well controlled with morning numbers?
ETA: This may be geared towards more lada T1.5 or beta cell damaged T2s, but I just thought it was interesting to note in terms of alternative anti-hyperglycemic control
http://caloriesproper.com/glp-101/
Yeah, sadly, in addition to my insulin production being as dead as a doorknob (doornail? I always forget which one it's supposed to be), I also lack the cells that tell the liver to release glucagon to thus start that process. My immune system took out that sector very thoroughly.
All three endos I've had have been stumped -- one even put my logs up (de-identified, of course) in their workroom, with a post-it note of "we've tried X,Y,Z with no results, what would you do?" In the olden days -- and I guess some would still use it, although I despise the term -- I would have been called a brittle diabetic. Nighttime has always been a challenge, typically more on the hypoglycemic end.
So, in the long of it...- Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
- We've got the carb ratio nailed down, but the basal remains an issue overnight. Like, last night, I went to bed at 150, and I woke up at 600. Something happened, but it was a meal I've had before, was meticulously carb counted, etc. My body just ... did not like it last night. The big culprits for late meals are usually pizza, Chinese, and sushi -- it's just hard to get a really good grasp on the insulin timing, and how I extend that bolus. Last night was meatloaf and tater tots (because sometimes, feeding me is like feeding a toddler), so not super fatty or super carby (total meal was 23 gm of carbs, and 14 of fat).
- Exercise is a big factor, but not reliably so. Sometimes I work out at night/in the evenings and I'm fine with the next morning, sometimes ... I'm very much not fine. That's gotten a little better since starting to pull back on some of the calorie restriction, which is letting the glycogen be more available.
- I do start requiring more insulin when it gets colder. I don't know if last night was one of those "OK, now my body thinks it's too cold" situations that's now kicked me over the edge. I usually have to start upping it in January, so it's possible we're just a month early. (It's also then part of what makes summer so difficult, because I will just start dropping and there's no lead up besides "oh, there's three days in a row where I can't fix hypos."
- I'm fairly insulin sensitive. "Typical" adult doses are in the ballpark of a unit per kilo, and I'm at half a unit per kilo.
- Overnights are challenging, and borderline frightening because if I tweak too much, I end up hypo when I wake up. I live alone, so that becomes more of a safety issue. But, it might be worth seeing if this is the winter phenomenon just happening early, and nudging up every so slightly (like, the smallest increase) overnight and see if that helps.
1 - Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
About 250g lettuce/leaves
50g alfalfa sprouts, grated Beetroot, grated carrot, avocado
100g red cabbage, celery, tomato, cucumber, capsicum
200g pumpkin
... And a chunk of salmon. And sometimes rice mixed in.
So are we talking 600g total, or 1150g total? And what form is the pumpkin?
1150 total... Raw weight pumpkin, but I cook it...
Still trying to figure out how to cook pumpkin and squashes! Occasionally have used canned unsweatened pumpkin err... maybe mixed in with cool whip, who knows why
Sounds AWESOME.
I roast it - in Australia we eat pumpkin/squash more as a vegetable, with dinner, not so much dessert. I cut it in chunks and bake it with spices on it (garlic powder, paprika, cumin, cayenne)
Pumpkin/squash Soup is good too - I still roast chunks, then blend with stock. The roasting adds more flavour
Yes, I have become addicted to roasted delicata and butternut squash! I have not tried oven roasting pumpkin yet.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/
Yup. Dawn phenomenon is why I'm on a higher dose overnight, peaking at 5:30 a.m.
I've been type 1 for 35 years. Let's just say that, well, it's sort of like Nony and her having researched and tried everything for eczema. I'm comfortable making pump adjustments, and my endocrinologist has given me carte blanche to manage it how I feel best, since I generally have a good history with that. But it gets annoying and difficult when there's no true pattern, and I can't tease out what is actually going on, in absence of other hormonal factors.
Given that leptin governs insulin which also regulates cortisol, which is influenced by stress and physiologically responds to cellular status to demand or reject energy substrates, I'd say a lot of hormonal factors are actually at play.. and there's way too many of them to try to pin down since it's hard to address one without affecting the others. Though, if you and your endo have tried to find some correlation with better results, have you noticed any patterns with days (and preceding nights) that were particularly well controlled with morning numbers?
ETA: This may be geared towards more lada T1.5 or beta cell damaged T2s, but I just thought it was interesting to note in terms of alternative anti-hyperglycemic control
http://caloriesproper.com/glp-101/
Yeah, sadly, in addition to my insulin production being as dead as a doorknob (doornail? I always forget which one it's supposed to be), I also lack the cells that tell the liver to release glucagon to thus start that process. My immune system took out that sector very thoroughly.
All three endos I've had have been stumped -- one even put my logs up (de-identified, of course) in their workroom, with a post-it note of "we've tried X,Y,Z with no results, what would you do?" In the olden days -- and I guess some would still use it, although I despise the term -- I would have been called a brittle diabetic. Nighttime has always been a challenge, typically more on the hypoglycemic end.
So, in the long of it...- Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
- We've got the carb ratio nailed down, but the basal remains an issue overnight. Like, last night, I went to bed at 150, and I woke up at 600. Something happened, but it was a meal I've had before, was meticulously carb counted, etc. My body just ... did not like it last night. The big culprits for late meals are usually pizza, Chinese, and sushi -- it's just hard to get a really good grasp on the insulin timing, and how I extend that bolus. Last night was meatloaf and tater tots (because sometimes, feeding me is like feeding a toddler), so not super fatty or super carby (total meal was 23 gm of carbs, and 14 of fat).
- Exercise is a big factor, but not reliably so. Sometimes I work out at night/in the evenings and I'm fine with the next morning, sometimes ... I'm very much not fine. That's gotten a little better since starting to pull back on some of the calorie restriction, which is letting the glycogen be more available.
- I do start requiring more insulin when it gets colder. I don't know if last night was one of those "OK, now my body thinks it's too cold" situations that's now kicked me over the edge. I usually have to start upping it in January, so it's possible we're just a month early. (It's also then part of what makes summer so difficult, because I will just start dropping and there's no lead up besides "oh, there's three days in a row where I can't fix hypos."
- I'm fairly insulin sensitive. "Typical" adult doses are in the ballpark of a unit per kilo, and I'm at half a unit per kilo.
- Overnights are challenging, and borderline frightening because if I tweak too much, I end up hypo when I wake up. I live alone, so that becomes more of a safety issue. But, it might be worth seeing if this is the winter phenomenon just happening early, and nudging up every so slightly (like, the smallest increase) overnight and see if that helps.
My Goo (cat) was also insulin sensitive. Try measuring a 0.1 unit of insulin
She was also the first cat in NZ on Lantus, I got it for her when it was still on human trials here. 1 - Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
-
Nony_Mouse wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Either a two-pound whoosh this morning, or just my blood sugar punking me. (Like, stupidly scary high. WTF, body?) Only time will tell, I suppose.
What's your fasting glucose? I have some running theories about blood sugar spikes with whooshes which incorporate the idea of lipolysis to release extraneous stored glucose within the adipocytes into blood circulation. I'm not sure if it's a feasible theory since I haven't run it across the current thought leaders, but it's just something I have in my head.
It varies, usually depending on how the previous night was, whether there was exercise, whether there was alcohol, etc.
This morning was ... not fantastic. We need to tweak my overnight insulin -- while still being on the side of "we need to make sure I'm not hypoglycemic overnight" -- because I keep waking up high. I could start that on my own, but there are some mornings when I'm fine, so I'm trying to rule out other issues first.
In the interest of teasing out one variable at a time, when you have a chance, perhaps Bill Lagakos's article may be pertinent. He regularly posts on biochemistry and circadian rhythm. Because of him I've followed a bit of circadian entrainment for the better part of 6 months this year, even if I don't quite understand half the crap he describes lol
http://caloriesproper.com/dawn-phenomnomnom/
Yup. Dawn phenomenon is why I'm on a higher dose overnight, peaking at 5:30 a.m.
I've been type 1 for 35 years. Let's just say that, well, it's sort of like Nony and her having researched and tried everything for eczema. I'm comfortable making pump adjustments, and my endocrinologist has given me carte blanche to manage it how I feel best, since I generally have a good history with that. But it gets annoying and difficult when there's no true pattern, and I can't tease out what is actually going on, in absence of other hormonal factors.
Given that leptin governs insulin which also regulates cortisol, which is influenced by stress and physiologically responds to cellular status to demand or reject energy substrates, I'd say a lot of hormonal factors are actually at play.. and there's way too many of them to try to pin down since it's hard to address one without affecting the others. Though, if you and your endo have tried to find some correlation with better results, have you noticed any patterns with days (and preceding nights) that were particularly well controlled with morning numbers?
ETA: This may be geared towards more lada T1.5 or beta cell damaged T2s, but I just thought it was interesting to note in terms of alternative anti-hyperglycemic control
http://caloriesproper.com/glp-101/
Yeah, sadly, in addition to my insulin production being as dead as a doorknob (doornail? I always forget which one it's supposed to be), I also lack the cells that tell the liver to release glucagon to thus start that process. My immune system took out that sector very thoroughly.
All three endos I've had have been stumped -- one even put my logs up (de-identified, of course) in their workroom, with a post-it note of "we've tried X,Y,Z with no results, what would you do?" In the olden days -- and I guess some would still use it, although I despise the term -- I would have been called a brittle diabetic. Nighttime has always been a challenge, typically more on the hypoglycemic end.
So, in the long of it...- Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
- We've got the carb ratio nailed down, but the basal remains an issue overnight. Like, last night, I went to bed at 150, and I woke up at 600. Something happened, but it was a meal I've had before, was meticulously carb counted, etc. My body just ... did not like it last night. The big culprits for late meals are usually pizza, Chinese, and sushi -- it's just hard to get a really good grasp on the insulin timing, and how I extend that bolus. Last night was meatloaf and tater tots (because sometimes, feeding me is like feeding a toddler), so not super fatty or super carby (total meal was 23 gm of carbs, and 14 of fat).
- Exercise is a big factor, but not reliably so. Sometimes I work out at night/in the evenings and I'm fine with the next morning, sometimes ... I'm very much not fine. That's gotten a little better since starting to pull back on some of the calorie restriction, which is letting the glycogen be more available.
- I do start requiring more insulin when it gets colder. I don't know if last night was one of those "OK, now my body thinks it's too cold" situations that's now kicked me over the edge. I usually have to start upping it in January, so it's possible we're just a month early. (It's also then part of what makes summer so difficult, because I will just start dropping and there's no lead up besides "oh, there's three days in a row where I can't fix hypos."
- I'm fairly insulin sensitive. "Typical" adult doses are in the ballpark of a unit per kilo, and I'm at half a unit per kilo.
- Overnights are challenging, and borderline frightening because if I tweak too much, I end up hypo when I wake up. I live alone, so that becomes more of a safety issue. But, it might be worth seeing if this is the winter phenomenon just happening early, and nudging up every so slightly (like, the smallest increase) overnight and see if that helps.
My Goo (cat) was also insulin sensitive. Try measuring a 0.1 unit of insulin She was also the first cat in NZ on Lantus, I got it for her when it was still on human trials here.
I've been compared to a cat before, but never quite like that. I appreciate your making me sit in my office and giggle.4 - Calorie restriction has more of a hypoglycemic effect, which would be expected. But then, there's that conundrum of "I'm not supposed to be restricting," with "restrict too much and there's no glycogen stores" with a bonus side of "then I start having cyclical hypos that we can't break out of."
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