Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Terebynthia wrote: »Glad you have your thigh back! You should definitely post an update with the bruising.
If it ever becomes a purple mass, I'll update.. so far, it's actually just diminishing in the pinkish hue. I'm either wolverine or this modified psmf week has a benefit in tissue repair due to the high protein intake. I've chugged enough whey, hydrolized collagen, animal protein + super dosing fish oil the past 4 days to trigger a vegan from a good distance
After reading Lyle's recovery book and having a bad fall last summer, I upped the fish oil a lot and I think its anti-inflammatory properties helped a LOT - much faster healing of the lower leg contusions and abrasions than usual and no secondary infection. I'm a believer!
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Terebynthia wrote: »Glad you have your thigh back! You should definitely post an update with the bruising.
If it ever becomes a purple mass, I'll update.. so far, it's actually just diminishing in the pinkish hue. I'm either wolverine or this modified psmf week has a benefit in tissue repair due to the high protein intake. I've chugged enough whey, hydrolized collagen, animal protein + super dosing fish oil the past 4 days to trigger a vegan from a good distance
After reading Lyle's recovery book and having a bad fall last summer, I upped the fish oil a lot and I think its anti-inflammatory properties helped a LOT - much faster healing of the lower leg contusions and abrasions than usual and no secondary infection. I'm a believer!
Fish oil is definitely one of those supplements that fall under the "is there anything it can't do?" Vitamin D would also, but if you get enough sunshine, you wouldn't need to supp it. I've been super dosing fish oil just as a normal routine when training in a deficit. Surplus days tend to be sushi days half the time, so I do get enough fatty fish those days to take a break from fish oil.Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I have fallen off the bandwagon big time in the past few weeks, eating like crap (and not insignificant amounts) and a massive drop in exercise. Neither my brain nor my body are happy (and not entirely sure if it's chicken or egg with the brain, or a combination - kicked off with the amount I've been working and being stressy with that stuff, and then fed with, well, feeding...).
Anyway, nipping it not entirely in the bud, probably looking at six weeks of deficit to get back to where I was. Weekend refeeds will be deployed, but I may give it a couple of weeks just at a straight deficit to get my head back in the game.
Also getting my *kitten* together with yoga and strength training, because my body is definitely feeling the lack of those, as demonstrated by my knee playing up again![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
It sucks, but such is life. At least fat lass is easy [arguably]: eat less and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. But sounds like a good plan.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I have fallen off the bandwagon big time in the past few weeks, eating like crap (and not insignificant amounts) and a massive drop in exercise. Neither my brain nor my body are happy (and not entirely sure if it's chicken or egg with the brain, or a combination - kicked off with the amount I've been working and being stressy with that stuff, and then fed with, well, feeding...).
Anyway, nipping it not entirely in the bud, probably looking at six weeks of deficit to get back to where I was. Weekend refeeds will be deployed, but I may give it a couple of weeks just at a straight deficit to get my head back in the game.
Also getting my *kitten* together with yoga and strength training, because my body is definitely feeling the lack of those, as demonstrated by my knee playing up again
It sucks, but such is life. At least fat lass is easy [arguably]: eat less and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. But sounds like a good plan.
Yeah, not like I don't know what I'm doing! But disappointed with myself. I need to not beat myself up about it too much though, cos that just feeds the messy brain. It's done, I know what to do to reverse it.Planning to low carb it (lower than I normally do at deficit) for a few days to get the buttload of water weight gone, then I'll know what the real damage is in terms of fat gain.
Just did an hour of yoga, and yeah, I've lost a fair bit of arm strength. It will come back fairly quickly though, and at least I didn't let the slacking on yoga and strength training go as long this time as I did first half of last year, or climb a mountain in that untrained state and wreck my knee completely!
I'll be boring you all with daily updates probably, helps keep me on the straight and narrow.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I have fallen off the bandwagon big time in the past few weeks, eating like crap (and not insignificant amounts) and a massive drop in exercise. Neither my brain nor my body are happy (and not entirely sure if it's chicken or egg with the brain, or a combination - kicked off with the amount I've been working and being stressy with that stuff, and then fed with, well, feeding...).
Anyway, nipping it not entirely in the bud, probably looking at six weeks of deficit to get back to where I was. Weekend refeeds will be deployed, but I may give it a couple of weeks just at a straight deficit to get my head back in the game.
Also getting my *kitten* together with yoga and strength training, because my body is definitely feeling the lack of those, as demonstrated by my knee playing up again
It sucks, but such is life. At least fat lass is easy [arguably]: eat less and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. But sounds like a good plan.
Yeah, not like I don't know what I'm doing! But disappointed with myself. I need to not beat myself up about it too much though, cos that just feeds the messy brain. It's done, I know what to do to reverse it.Planning to low carb it (lower than I normally do at deficit) for a few days to get the buttload of water weight gone, then I'll know what the real damage is in terms of fat gain.
Just did an hour of yoga, and yeah, I've lost a fair bit of arm strength. It will come back fairly quickly though, and at least I didn't let the slacking on yoga and strength training go as long this time as I did first half of last year, or climb a mountain in that untrained state and wreck my knee completely!
I'll be boring you all with daily updates probably, helps keep me on the straight and narrow.
Muscle memory ftw. And yup, you know the deal. Getting back into an aggressive cut after an extended bulk was like visiting a relative you actively avoid at parties. Lol. Use the thread as your daily diary. I mean... you started it. Haha.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I have fallen off the bandwagon big time in the past few weeks, eating like crap (and not insignificant amounts) and a massive drop in exercise. Neither my brain nor my body are happy (and not entirely sure if it's chicken or egg with the brain, or a combination - kicked off with the amount I've been working and being stressy with that stuff, and then fed with, well, feeding...).
Anyway, nipping it not entirely in the bud, probably looking at six weeks of deficit to get back to where I was. Weekend refeeds will be deployed, but I may give it a couple of weeks just at a straight deficit to get my head back in the game.
Also getting my *kitten* together with yoga and strength training, because my body is definitely feeling the lack of those, as demonstrated by my knee playing up again
It sucks, but such is life. At least fat lass is easy [arguably]: eat less and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. But sounds like a good plan.
Yeah, not like I don't know what I'm doing! But disappointed with myself. I need to not beat myself up about it too much though, cos that just feeds the messy brain. It's done, I know what to do to reverse it.Planning to low carb it (lower than I normally do at deficit) for a few days to get the buttload of water weight gone, then I'll know what the real damage is in terms of fat gain.
Just did an hour of yoga, and yeah, I've lost a fair bit of arm strength. It will come back fairly quickly though, and at least I didn't let the slacking on yoga and strength training go as long this time as I did first half of last year, or climb a mountain in that untrained state and wreck my knee completely!
I'll be boring you all with daily updates probably, helps keep me on the straight and narrow.
Muscle memory ftw. And yup, you know the deal. Getting back into an aggressive cut after an extended bulk was like visiting a relative you actively avoid at parties. Lol. Use the thread as your daily diary. I mean... you started it. Haha.
And at least I'll be on topic for a change, cos refeeds Hopefully a diet break will be unnecessary. 3 -
Two days in and I have eaten like a saint and been suitably active. I don't know how the hell anyone does super low carb, obviously not by having watermelon for breakfast! Since I'm not prepared to make that sacrifice, moderately low carb will have to do. I can't even bring myself to make my protein shakes with water, 50/50 milk and water is bad enough (actually it's okay with both strawberry and vanilla flavours, but last night's choc pb shake was a pale imitation of itself). I'm fighting a losing battle with water weight this week anyway, because I have once again chosen to go back to a deficit smack on PMS time. Ah well, it'll come off when it comes off, and in the meantime I may avoid the scale for a few days! 10
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My abs have just started hurting slightly from yesterday's yoga. So that's how much progress I've undone, to the point that a half hour yoga practice with a measly few planks gives me belly DOMS Oh well, only one way to fix that! 4
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I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.2 -
I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
I've been doing the same thing, Nony. The dietitian had me doing a moderate low carb during the pre-race taper, to try to curb that taper weight gain and keep my brain from freaking out. I actually enjoyed it, and found it easier to do when I was focusing on protein more, so it seems to have stuck.4 -
collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
I've been doing the same thing, Nony. The dietitian had me doing a moderate low carb during the pre-race taper, to try to curb that taper weight gain and keep my brain from freaking out. I actually enjoyed it, and found it easier to do when I was focusing on protein more, so it seems to have stuck.
Yup it's a 'what works for you' thing, and honestly one of the reasons I generally don't mention my carb intake is so that I don't get shtick from people assuming that anyone lower carb must have drunk the (sugar free) kool-aid and being doing it for reasons other than it's what suits them.5 -
Cool, @Nony_Mouse
"Carbs" are such a hot button issue.
To manage my anger levels, I shall choose to see you as "high satiation" rather than "low-carb".
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Cool, @Nony_Mouse
"Carbs" are such a hot button issue.
To manage my anger levels, I shall choose to see you as "high satiation" rather than "low-carb".
Well, I will forgive her, as long as she keeps eating the occasional pavlova during her re-feeds! But I was quite surprised to find her going low(er) carb while kicking up a step-storm!0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »My abs have just started hurting slightly from yesterday's yoga. So that's how much progress I've undone, to the point that a half hour yoga practice with a measly few planks gives me belly DOMS Oh well, only one way to fix that!
Think about how bad it truly could have gotten.
When you wake up from a night with more tossing and turning in it and your shoulders and others things hurt.
That's the low. You were no where near!1 -
Very interesting read, thanks for putting this together and sharing!2
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collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
I've been doing the same thing, Nony. The dietitian had me doing a moderate low carb during the pre-race taper, to try to curb that taper weight gain and keep my brain from freaking out. I actually enjoyed it, and found it easier to do when I was focusing on protein more, so it seems to have stuck.
*slowly raises hand* I'm also low to moderate carb right now, just because that's how the macros land when I focus on protein. I would actually prefer to be higher carb since I'm ramping up my cycling and running, but I seem to be unconsciously reaching for the protein, fat and fiber trifecta.5 -
Cool, @Nony_Mouse
"Carbs" are such a hot button issue.
To manage my anger levels, I shall choose to see you as "high satiation" rather than "low-carb".
Well, I will forgive her, as long as she keeps eating the occasional pavlova during her re-feeds! But I was quite surprised to find her going low(er) carb while kicking up a step-storm!
Remember, my glycogen stores are chock full right now, and even without that I can easily maintain 20k steps a day on 100-150g of carbs without feeling any ill effect.
Jesus H, ~80 grams of carbs a day is not the end of the world, people! I wouldn't want to be hiking on those levels, but then again, I'm not an idiot and not about to do that anyway. A 1.5 to 2 hour walk around my very flat town, along the very flat beach, or along the very flat river trail is hardly chewing through the glycogen.
And I'm gonna say it - prolonged high carb intake makes me feel like crap. So there.Nony_Mouse wrote: »My abs have just started hurting slightly from yesterday's yoga. So that's how much progress I've undone, to the point that a half hour yoga practice with a measly few planks gives me belly DOMS Oh well, only one way to fix that!
Think about how bad it truly could have gotten.
When you wake up from a night with more tossing and turning in it and your shoulders and others things hurt.
That's the low. You were no where near!
Uh, well, actually...though that could just as easily be from being angsty about work stuff. Hence the need to get activity and nutrition back in line, because the combination is pretty dire.4 -
*slowly raises hand* I'm also low to moderate carb right now, just because that's how the macros land when I focus on protein. I would actually prefer to be higher carb since I'm ramping up my cycling and running, but I seem to be unconsciously reaching for the protein, fat and fiber trifecta.
Yeah, when I'm running I find I need to be hitting around 150g at least.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Jesus H, ~80 grams of carbs a day is not the end of the world, people! I wouldn't want to be hiking on those levels, but then again, I'm not an idiot and not about to do that anyway. A 1.5 to 2 hour walk around my very flat town, along the very flat beach, or along the very flat river trail is hardly chewing through the glycogen.
And I'm gonna say it - prolonged high carb intake makes me feel like crap. So there.
Well, I admit that I "low carbed" my "rapid weight loss" phase in 2014/2015.... by 'only' eating 282g of Carbs a day
I mean COMPARED to February 2018 I was, on a daily basis, eating about 430 less calories, 90g less carbs, 1g less fats, 16g less protein, and walking almost 3K steps less while creating a ~600Cal larger deficit!!! (I did weigh a tad more)!
[2014/2015 daily deficit ~695 Cal, Feb 2018 daily deficit ~107 Cal]
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Jesus H, ~80 grams of carbs a day is not the end of the world, people! I wouldn't want to be hiking on those levels, but then again, I'm not an idiot and not about to do that anyway. A 1.5 to 2 hour walk around my very flat town, along the very flat beach, or along the very flat river trail is hardly chewing through the glycogen.
And I'm gonna say it - prolonged high carb intake makes me feel like crap. So there.
Well, I admit that I "low carbed" my "rapid weight loss" phase in 2014/2015.... by 'only' eating 282g of Carbs a day
I mean COMPARED to February 2018 I was, on a daily basis, eating about 430 less calories, 90g less carbs, 1g less fats, 16g less protein, and walking almost 3K steps less while creating a ~600Cal larger deficit!!! (I did weigh a tad more)!
[2014/2015 daily deficit ~695 Cal, Feb 2018 daily deficit ~107 Cal]
Whereas I'm LOLing over here, because even on the day before my half last month, I only hit 215 gm of carbs. My macro splits are looking a lot like 40 (c) - 35 (f) - 25 (p), so not super low carb, but still lower than the SAD. I've learned that I'm not really satiated on protein alone, but this ballpark of 100-150 CHO with a goal of at least 60 gm protein is working. (I am awful at getting protein in. Hate smoothies. Hate protein powders. There's only so much egg and cheese a girl can take.)
The day of the half, however, 429. The day of the half was delicious. I discovered on that trip to Disney that I *really* like good ice cream. I haven't typically kept it in my house, unless it's homemade, so this was both an awesome and awful discovery.
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Cool, @Nony_Mouse
"Carbs" are such a hot button issue.
To manage my anger levels, I shall choose to see you as "high satiation" rather than "low-carb".
Well, I will forgive her, as long as she keeps eating the occasional pavlova during her re-feeds! But I was quite surprised to find her going low(er) carb while kicking up a step-storm!
Will it surprise you to know I'm lowerish carb now too? What satiates me changes every now and then, and right now, I'm going through a phase where apparently I need more fat. Bring on the avocados, and cut the starch.
Hello everyone! I basically stopped reading MFP for a while, but was in touch with Pav and Nony through our step challenges. They know I've pretty much been maintaining and pulling my hair out because I keep shooting myself in the foot by being stupid.
What I want to do and what I manage to do are two different things, so I have to work with what I can manage to do, and that's apparently working a rather large deficit and then FORCING myself to ignore that pesky disordered voice that tells me to keep going at that and tell it what it can do with itself and do refeeds every weekend like I had been because yeah, I binge eventually if I keep up with the deficit thing.
I can't seem to find a balance between hunger, meals I like, and activity levels that does reasonable deficits. I guess I'm too all or nothing. I keep coming in around 700 calories under maintenance every day. For 5 days out of the week? That's okay. For too many days straight? Disaster.
In other news, I have gone back to weighted strength training with what to most of you would be laughably low weights but to my silly head and seriously jacked joints (they are getting worse) are about all I can handle. Simple full body routine, 3x's a week... goblet squats, RDL's, rows, shoulder press, bench press, and weighted glute bridges.12 -
We do super low carb by actively avoiding pure happiness lol.
But while we're on the topic, and because I can't seem to ever get away from the debate (I think I have a dark passion for joining them), let's talk about carbs.
Just to get it out of the way, first and foremost, dietary carbs are entirely optional as a macro. Full stop. They are biologically non-essential for survival. So all of the "you need carbs to live" statements can just see their way to a biochemistry and nutrition textbook. Our bodies make their own internal glucose from substrates taken from amino and fatty acids. This is known as gluconeogenesis: to make new glucose. In ketogenic diets, after a while of restricting carbs, our organs are perfectly adept at running on fatty acids (also known as being 'fat adapted') and glucose gets exclusive rights to fueling certain cells and parts of the brain where ketones can't.
Now for the intricacy. Survival =/= optimal. Just because we can survive without them doesn't mean they need to be eliminated or reduced to an unsavory degree. Dietary carbs are a pure fuel source. Runners and high performing athletes carb up prior to their events because they act like diesel fuel; easily burned and powerful catalysts for energy. Bodybuilders carb up during their bulk because carbs are an anabolic source of energy that use insulin to drive glucose into muscle cells instead of fat cells during anaerobic resistance training. But guess what macro usually gets reduced during their cut phases? Yup. Carbs. Because in a caloric deficit, they all know that energy is going to be reduced and when you don't need as much energy, you don't need as much of the fuel to supply it.
For the average joe/jane, an excessive amount of carbs isn't necessary. To clear the air, when I'm referring to carbs, I'm talking about glucose, sucrose, and fructose. If the first thing anyone thinks of is donuts, pastries, or ice cream, those are classified as hyper-palatable, easily overeaten treats that are a combination of carbs+fat+salt and low protein, designed to make anyone overeat, likely due to their low protein content.
For any, and I mean literally ANY, diet to work, adherence is the absolute dictator of progress. Your style of diet does not affect your mailman's, just like a facebook/mfp/internet group's style of diet doesn't affect yours. As long as protein is constant between all diets, the only other 2 macros that get swapped around are carbs and fat, with vegetarian/vegan and keto/carnivore dieters representing the extremes of either end, respectively.
I'm linking this youtube video that illustrates exactly how adherence works, based on Gardner's year-long study between low carb and low fat diets. TL;DW = both groups couldn't adhere to extreme low ends, but gradually increased either carbs or fat to a level they were actually able to adhere to and maintain progress.
If you prefer to read the in-depth analysis, enter Examine.com's take on it: https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LizdfJMtkE&t 14 -
We do super low carb by actively avoiding pure happiness lol.
But while we're on the topic, and because I can't seem to ever get away from the debate (I think I have a dark passion for joining them), let's talk about carbs.
Just to get it out of the way, first and foremost, dietary carbs are entirely optional as a macro. Full stop. They are biologically non-essential for survival. So all of the "you need carbs to live" statements can just see their way to a biochemistry and nutrition textbook. Our bodies make their own internal glucose from substrates taken from amino and fatty acids. This is known as gluconeogenesis: to make new glucose. In ketogenic diets, after a while of restricting carbs, our organs are perfectly adept at running on fatty acids (also known as being 'fat adapted') and glucose gets exclusive rights to fueling certain cells and parts of the brain where ketones can't.
Now for the intricacy. Survival =/= optimal. Just because we can survive without them doesn't mean they need to be eliminated or reduced to an unsavory degree. Dietary carbs are a pure fuel source. Runners and high performing athletes carb up prior to their events because they act like diesel fuel; easily burned and powerful catalysts for energy. Bodybuilders carb up during their bulk because carbs are an anabolic source of energy that use insulin to drive glucose into muscle cells instead of fat cells during anaerobic resistance training. But guess what macro usually gets reduced during their cut phases? Yup. Carbs. Because in a caloric deficit, they all know that energy is going to be reduced and when you don't need as much energy, you don't need as much of the fuel to supply it.
For the average joe/jane, an excessive amount of carbs isn't necessary. To clear the air, when I'm referring to carbs, I'm talking about glucose, sucrose, and fructose. If the first thing anyone thinks of is donuts, pastries, or ice cream, those are classified as hyper-palatable, easily overeaten treats that are a combination of carbs+fat+salt and low protein, designed to make anyone overeat, likely due to their low protein content.
For any, and I mean literally ANY, diet to work, adherence is the absolute dictator of progress. Your style of diet does not affect your mailman's, just like a facebook/mfp/internet group's style of diet doesn't affect yours. As long as protein is constant between all diets, the only other 2 macros that get swapped around are carbs and fat, with vegetarian/vegan and keto/carnivore dieters representing the extremes of either end, respectively.
I'm linking this youtube video that illustrates exactly how adherence works, based on Gardner's year-long study between low carb and low fat diets. TL;DW = both groups couldn't adhere to extreme low ends, but gradually increased either carbs or fat to a level they were actually able to adhere to and maintain progress.
If you prefer to read the in-depth analysis, enter Examine.com's take on it: https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
Reasons we still need the awesome button. Thank you 7 -
Damn all of you closet low-carbers, my world view has been shattered!!
LOL
I naturally eat lower fat, honestly. I've just never been someone who gravitates towards "healthy" fatty foods, and they tend to be my trigger foods when I do - cheese, nuts, ice cream. I can moderate carbs just fine, but fat I tend to be all or nothing. So I have just naturally over the years avoided fat when I wanted to lose weght, not because I thought it was bad, but because what I wanted was an entire canister of peanuts and a block of cheddar! I'm working on adding in fatty fish, nuts and cheese hopefully in moderation, avocado if I could get it cheaper. I really don't like full fat dairy and fatty cuts of meat though.
But if nutrition and optimal macros weren't a thing, I would prob eat 70% carbs, 15% protein, 15% fat. I actually like many starchy carbs plain (though I don't usually eat them that way) - rice, pasta, oats, potatoes, doughy bread. Not sure if it's just the way I was raised or some genetic thing, but that's how I'm hard-wired. Hold the butter, I'll just rip the doughy center out of the Italian bread and chow down on that lol!4 -
Nodding my head here. My protein has been pretty constant the whole time I've been dieting. When I first started, fat satiated me, and carbs (I'm talking starch like tubers, beans, and whole grains) had to drop back in my intake to make room for healthy fats like avocado and nuts. (I'm a vegetarian, btw)
When my psoriatic arthritis was going through a honeymoon phase, I became very active doing what was for me vigorous activity. What satiated me changed then and fat no longer did the trick. I needed all the starch. Protein stayed constant, and I lowered my fat intake and upped my starch intake.
Now that I'm out of that honeymoon phase and the disease is progressing, I'm still quite active, but the intensity of my activity has lowered dramatically. The starch stopped cutting it and the fat started doing the trick again. Now bear in mind, my carb/cal ratio is what I consider moderate, coming in at roughly 150 grams a day. Were I eating at maintenance, I would be above that. My carb intake is just a function of the amount of calories I'm eating. If I had more calories, I'd add more carbs, likely. The fat is enough. More than I'm eating is too much for a medical condition I have.
ETA: I should add that I don't often eat hyperpalatable foods. I have trouble with moderation and I don't find they satiate me. When I want something sweet, I really enjoy a bit of sugar free jam on a rice cake (this reminds me of my childhood when we were poor and used to eat jelly on saltines instead of having cookies for dessert). I have an assortment of different jellies, and I actually find that quite a satisfying treat. I love jelly, and yes, I'm a weirdo who loves rice cakes.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cool, @Nony_Mouse
"Carbs" are such a hot button issue.
To manage my anger levels, I shall choose to see you as "high satiation" rather than "low-carb".
Well, I will forgive her, as long as she keeps eating the occasional pavlova during her re-feeds! But I was quite surprised to find her going low(er) carb while kicking up a step-storm!
Will it surprise you to know I'm lowerish carb now too? What satiates me changes every now and then, and right now, I'm going through a phase where apparently I need more fat. Bring on the avocados, and cut the starch.
Hello everyone! I basically stopped reading MFP for a while, but was in touch with Pav and Nony through our step challenges. They know I've pretty much been maintaining and pulling my hair out because I keep shooting myself in the foot by being stupid.
What I want to do and what I manage to do are two different things, so I have to work with what I can manage to do, and that's apparently working a rather large deficit and then FORCING myself to ignore that pesky disordered voice that tells me to keep going at that and tell it what it can do with itself and do refeeds every weekend like I had been because yeah, I binge eventually if I keep up with the deficit thing.
I can't seem to find a balance between hunger, meals I like, and activity levels that does reasonable deficits. I guess I'm too all or nothing. I keep coming in around 700 calories under maintenance every day. For 5 days out of the week? That's okay. For too many days straight? Disaster.
In other news, I have gone back to weighted strength training with what to most of you would be laughably low weights but to my silly head and seriously jacked joints (they are getting worse) are about all I can handle. Simple full body routine, 3x's a week... goblet squats, RDL's, rows, shoulder press, bench press, and weighted glute bridges.
I wanted both 'like' and 'hugs' for this one.
As you know, I'm the same with having to be careful pushing large deficits. I've run a sizeable one the last three days, because hot off massive overfeeding (or we could call it what it was, binging), and have a high enough TDEE that I'm still eating plenty. I think today will be back to a 'normal' deficit though. I'm starting to feel it, PMS hunger may or may not make an appearance in the next couple of days, and I've dropped enough scale weight and bloat to feel significantly better. I'll also bump my carbs up that smidge to my 'normal' deficit level (which is really just having shakes with all milk instead of 50/50 milk and water, may well keep the celery sticks instead of carrot sticks at lunch cos turns out I actually like it with my avocado and cottage cheese guac thing!). I'll see how I'm feeling by the weekend as to whether or not I do a refeed.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nodding my head here. My protein has been pretty constant the whole time I've been dieting. When I first started, fat satiated me, and carbs (I'm talking starch like tubers, beans, and whole grains) had to drop back in my intake to make room for healthy fats like avocado and nuts. (I'm a vegetarian, btw)
When my psoriatic arthritis was going through a honeymoon phase, I became very active doing what was for me vigorous activity. What satiated me changed then and fat no longer did the trick. I needed all the starch. Protein stayed constant, and I lowered my fat intake and upped my starch intake.
Now that I'm out of that honeymoon phase and the disease is progressing, I'm still quite active, but the intensity of my activity has lowered dramatically. The starch stopped cutting it and the fat started doing the trick again. Now bear in mind, my carb/cal ratio is what I consider moderate, coming in at roughly 150 grams a day. Were I eating at maintenance, I would be above that. My carb intake is just a function of the amount of calories I'm eating. If I had more calories, I'd add more carbs, likely. The fat is enough. More than I'm eating is too much for a medical condition I have.
ETA: I should add that I don't often eat hyperpalatable foods. I have trouble with moderation and I don't find they satiate me. When I want something sweet, I really enjoy a bit of sugar free jam on a rice cake (this reminds me of my childhood when we were poor and used to eat jelly on saltines instead of having cookies for dessert). I have an assortment of different jellies, and I actually find that quite a satisfying treat. I love jelly, and yes, I'm a weirdo who loves rice cakes.
When I was sad or had a nervous tummy, my mom would give me margarine and grape jelly on saltines with a little Dixie cup of soda 3 -
Also a weirdo who likes rice cakes!!
I was thinking about it last night, and I've eaten at the lower end of the carb spectrum for years. Well before MFP. The only times I haven't are when I've been well off piste with nutrition and eating way too much hyper palatable stuff.
Pudding/dessert wasn't a daily thing in our house growing up, and neither were other treats. That said, hagelslag on toast for breakfast was totally normal (https://www.thespruce.com/hagelslag-history-varieties-and-uses-1128744). 2 -
Hagelslag is a new word for me, and that sounds weird and awesome at the same time. Kind of the same vein as cinnamon sugar on buttered toast, really. Probably not the breakfast of champions, but as someone who grew up on Frosted Flakes and Cinnamon Toast Crunch for breakfast, I'm in no position to judge.
And now I'm envisioning chocolate sprinkles on buttered toasted cinnamon swirl bread and drooling.2 -
Damn all of you closet low-carbers, my world view has been shattered!!
LOL
I naturally eat lower fat, honestly. I've just never been someone who gravitates towards "healthy" fatty foods, and they tend to be my trigger foods when I do - cheese, nuts, ice cream. I can moderate carbs just fine, but fat I tend to be all or nothing. So I have just naturally over the years avoided fat when I wanted to lose weght, not because I thought it was bad, but because what I wanted was an entire canister of peanuts and a block of cheddar! I'm working on adding in fatty fish, nuts and cheese hopefully in moderation, avocado if I could get it cheaper. I really don't like full fat dairy and fatty cuts of meat though.
But if nutrition and optimal macros weren't a thing, I would prob eat 70% carbs, 15% protein, 15% fat. I actually like many starchy carbs plain (though I don't usually eat them that way) - rice, pasta, oats, potatoes, doughy bread. Not sure if it's just the way I was raised or some genetic thing, but that's how I'm hard-wired. Hold the butter, I'll just rip the doughy center out of the Italian bread and chow down on that lol!
Lol. It really just adds to my carb sermon. Adherence trumps macro composition. Besides, in a calorie deficit, you could have 100% protein or carbs or fat and still lose weight - I'm purposely using the word "weight" because where that loss comes from is going to come from somewhere.
Some people can do low[er] fat and do just fine. Some people feel better doing low[er] carb and do just fine. Others like to have a mix of both or swap them around from time to time. All of those work according to your calorie goal. The good thing about food is that there isn't an optimal macro ratio. If protein is held constant you can do whatever you want with the other two.
I don't even identify as low carb or low fat. I'm protein based.
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