Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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At least it’s stupid hot during summer! It was 83 here yesterday and it’s supposed to be Winter!
Hope Mario is doing well—fingers crossed for him (and you)!
My TSH is up, almost out of the normal range. My GP didn’t do a full panel, so I plan on asking for one at the end of this month to see if it’s a fluke or not. And to see if I need to go back to the endocrinologist. My weight is up about 7 pounds pretty consistently, more than just normal fluctuations for me. I’ve been on this Ned level for about six years. Though it has gone up and down of it’s own accord—my previous doc thought my thyroid’s production of hormones was being inconsistent and spitting out more at some times and less at others.
Found something interesting with my fitness tracker. For my walks around my apt. Complex, I get fewer calories for my adjustment when they’re formal exercise (using one of the settings in the watch and starting it and stopping it) than I do if I just walk and the movement is counted as steps. I watch tv on my phone, and my pace is pretty consistent. Though my heart rate spiked high last night because I rented “It.” Holy crap! I can’t wait for the next one!!!! I have most of “The Walking Dead” to catch up on, too.
So, in order to better calculate my TDEE, I’m going with eating back 50% of my exercise calories and 30% of my steps calories for a month or so as the adjustment. I want to do a recomp, but need a better sense of numbers first. And need to have the stupid thyroid behaving.
On the bright side, I really go my protein up another 5% to about 30-31% this week!
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@Psychgrrl if your exercise is of a consistent step based type, I would just calculate a percentage difference between expected and apparent tdee and just take it into account. For example my difference is about 5%. (It is actually almost 6.5% when over 20k steps and a bit less than 3.5% when under 15k steps as far as I can tell; but on average about 5%)3
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I made goose liver parfait yesterday. It's absolutely delicious, and has even managed to make the stack of rice cakes I have lurking in the cupboard edible.
Thank you MFP recipe tracker for enabling me to track it
I may even have to eat some more to make a sensible deficit today. The hardship! 5 -
I'm so mad at myself right now! I did the stupid last Thursday, and did a bootcamp (light) class using heavier weights because I had such a successful PT session the day before I felt like a real badass. It was a Very. Bad. Idea. By the end of class I couldn't feel my hams at all, like I had to concentrate on moving the muscles so I could walk to the car and into the house. I did all the rolling and stretching and icing, but Fri I literally couldn't walk. Running was absolutely out of the question. And Sat. And Sun. And this morning my PT gave me some more ways to stretch and just upper body work (no matter what I come in whining about, she's got a way to work around it!) But I'm still hurting and I still can't run and it's raining and I'm feeling sorry for myself blah blah. I'll get over it, but today just sucks.
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YAY! I finally got my 10-mile run in. I haven't done that much since my half marathon back in July, so that was *amazing*.
It was slow, and cold, because it was snowing and although our county usually maintains the trail pretty well... today they did not. So I walked more than I would have liked. But I got the mileage done, and that was the important thing, so it's all OK.10 -
collectingblues wrote: »YAY! I finally got my 10-mile run in. I haven't done that much since my half marathon back in July, so that was *amazing*.
It was slow, and cold, because it was snowing and although our county usually maintains the trail pretty well... today they did not. So I walked more than I would have liked. But I got the mileage done, and that was the important thing, so it's all OK.
Congratulations!1 -
collectingblues wrote: »YAY! I finally got my 10-mile run in. I haven't done that much since my half marathon back in July, so that was *amazing*.
It was slow, and cold, because it was snowing and although our county usually maintains the trail pretty well... today they did not. So I walked more than I would have liked. But I got the mileage done, and that was the important thing, so it's all OK.
Congratulations!
And I'm sorry -- I only saw your comment after I posted. I hope I didn't come across as insensitive. I'm sorry you're having a rough go of it today.
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Hugs @mph323, bad DOMS suck the worst.
Yay for run @collectingblues
And........
Yay for cat doesn't have cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead he has a bunch of things for which he is completely asymptomatic. Whether the thyroid meds caused it, or uncovered it, is a chicken and egg scenario to which we will never know the answer. So, Triaditis - irritable bowel syndrome (no clinical symptoms, bowel looked perfect according to the surgeon), low grade pancreatitis (pancreas also looks perfect), liver inflammation. Because it is all low grade, we'll be managing it with diet, which will be homemade by moi in accordance with a recipe we'll get from the vet school nutritionist.
He's already up 1/2 a kg from two weeks ago (I know how to overfeed
), and appetite is good other than when we're battling heat.
Two bloody weeks of thinking my cat had lymphoma. Guess I should probably stop eating my feelings now
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Dear Mario: Don't pull that stunt on your human again. I'm sure she would have made you custom food if you'd asked nicely, instead of being DramaCat.6
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collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »YAY! I finally got my 10-mile run in. I haven't done that much since my half marathon back in July, so that was *amazing*.
It was slow, and cold, because it was snowing and although our county usually maintains the trail pretty well... today they did not. So I walked more than I would have liked. But I got the mileage done, and that was the important thing, so it's all OK.
Congratulations!
And I'm sorry -- I only saw your comment after I posted. I hope I didn't come across as insensitive. I'm sorry you're having a rough go of it today.
Actually, I found your post extremely inspirational! If you can get out there and run 10 trail miles in the snow, I can certainly get out and walk in what we Californian's call "cold" weather with a little rain. Thanks!4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Hugs @mph323, bad DOMS suck the worst.
Yay for run @collectingblues
And........
Yay for cat doesn't have cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead he has a bunch of things for which he is completely asymptomatic. Whether the thyroid meds caused it, or uncovered it, is a chicken and egg scenario to which we will never know the answer. So, Triaditis - irritable bowel syndrome (no clinical symptoms, bowel looked perfect according to the surgeon), low grade pancreatitis (pancreas also looks perfect), liver inflammation. Because it is all low grade, we'll be managing it with diet, which will be homemade by moi in accordance with a recipe we'll get from the vet school nutritionist.
He's already up 1/2 a kg from two weeks ago (I know how to overfeed ), and appetite is good other than when we're battling heat.
Two bloody weeks of thinking my cat had lymphoma. Guess I should probably stop eating my feelings now
OMG, best news ever!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Hugs @mph323, bad DOMS suck the worst.
Yay for run @collectingblues
And........
Yay for cat doesn't have cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead he has a bunch of things for which he is completely asymptomatic. Whether the thyroid meds caused it, or uncovered it, is a chicken and egg scenario to which we will never know the answer. So, Triaditis - irritable bowel syndrome (no clinical symptoms, bowel looked perfect according to the surgeon), low grade pancreatitis (pancreas also looks perfect), liver inflammation. Because it is all low grade, we'll be managing it with diet, which will be homemade by moi in accordance with a recipe we'll get from the vet school nutritionist.
He's already up 1/2 a kg from two weeks ago (I know how to overfeed ), and appetite is good other than when we're battling heat.
Two bloody weeks of thinking my cat had lymphoma. Guess I should probably stop eating my feelings now
I've been thinking about you a lot lately and hoping for the best. I'm glad this is how it turned out. I know exactly how much of a relief it is for a beloved pet to turn out "less sick". Waiting for a result is the worst, the mind goes to all kinds of places.4 -
Yay Mario!1
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Whoop Whoop for no cancer!1
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Thanks everyone
It certainly is a relief to end up with a preferable diagnosis, especially when those things had pretty much been taken off the table. My vet did give mild pancreatitis as a possibility two weeks ago, then that was nixed on ultrasound. She also called the hepatitis as a possibility, but everyone really was leaning towards lymphoma as the most likely, so that's what I was prepared for. IBD was never even mentioned, other than as 'not that', because of the complete lack of symptoms.
I was remembering when my Goo was diagnosed with diabetes 15 years ago. I cried buckets, because I had no idea what to expect. I wouldn't even bat an eyelid at that diagnosis now, because a) I know how manageable it is, and b) I have had far, far worse diagnoses for various cats since.5 -
Congrats to Mario! I'm not sure if pancreatitis in felines is similar treatment to that in humans, but the usual treatment that I'm aware of is fasting. What that translates to in cat time will vary, of course. As long as he's keeping down food and not manifesting symptoms of pain then I think he'll be well on the way to health
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Me three, as to the holiday diet break. It's been -- and is being -- a real fight to stay within calories, and I don't always succeed. I get seriously hungry around midday some days, and my regular lunches just don't seem to cut it. And I'm craving more carbs -- semi-sweet, peanut-buttery carbs. I know I can get on top of this, and for a change I don't feel as though I'm circling the drain with my weight loss, but I miss my good deficit habits.
I think (maybe) a big difference in my two diet breaks was that during my first one, I ate pretty much the same food that I was eating during my deficit, just more of it. Probably 85% health conscious choices. During my Christmas diet break, I ate whatever I saw, which was alot of cakes, pies, candy, cookies, tamales, enchiladas, bread, eggnog, ponche, white russians, and such. I kept within maintenance, for the most part, but the types of food were definitely different than what I allow myself during deficit. I just don't have enough calories to eat those kinds of foods in quantity and get the nutrition that I need in my deficit calories. I have alot to learn about sustainability, but I am working on it. Could those rich foods be what is calling to me now? Could a block in weight loss have more to do with emotional attachments than sheer will-power or body requirements?
To both of these sentiments, there's a predominant theme which likely applies to the majority of dieters: there was a habit formed to create and stay within a deficit by eliminating or reducing the intake of hyper-palatable foods; as soon as the holidays came around, that habit was broken with reckless abandonment and now there is difficulty in going back to prior habits.
Hyper-palatable foods are the primary driving force behind increasing rates of weight and fat gain. It's not necessarily the fault of the consumer or the manufacturer, but convenience food is specifically designed and engineered to be damn tasty and drive sales up. Along that same of thought, even the tastiest foods and recipes we cook are usually a mix of salt, sugar, and fat, creating our own versions of hyper-palatability.
This leads to asinine conclusions that "sugar is addictive!" and other forms of horse$hit with over-reaching statements. Sugar in itself is not addictive, but when you combine it with contrasting flavors and consistency, this amalgam of explosive flavors sends a surge of stimuli to your reward center neurotransmitters and all of a sudden foodgasms become the only thing our bodies respond to, and anything less is just unsatisfactory, usually leading to difficulty in trying to cut calories in the long run.
The problem seen in a lot of dieting strategies is that people seem to misinterpret the reduction in hyper-palatability as "completely eliminate them from my diet because will-power alone is weak" or something along those lines. I've said before that it takes years to develop the habit to become overfat. That means you've trained your body to respond excitedly to foods that stimulate pleasure and become averse to foods that don't meet that sensation, for years. It will take years to train your body to respond positively to nutrient dense food as well. And that doesn't mean you have to learn to love eating kale. Srsly fk kale.
All it means is that you need to adjust your food choices to be a bridge between palatable and nutrient dense. Instead of chicken nuggets, fries, and a coke, opt for grilled/rotisserie chicken, roasted potatoes, and a diet coke (and if you have an argument against diet coke because cancer, rat studies don't count). You haven't changed the macro composition, but you've eliminated refined vegetable oil and high fructose corn syrup already with that change.
The point is you can still enjoy food that is both tasty and nutrient dense, just not to the point of "zomfg I need to change my underwear" calorie bombs. And if you want a quick tip to help you naturally cut calories, if you focus solely on whole food protein sources, your body will almost always feel uncomfortably full before you can eat anything else. In itself, protein is self-limiting in that way. Think of what you gorged on over the holidays. How much of it was protein dense? Probably not a lot.
TL;DR - Protein is, was, and always will be a priority macro. Eat a lot of it and eat it first before anything else. Simplify your diet to follow a 70/30 or 80/20 rule: 70/80% nutrient density and 30/20% whatever you like. That keeps you sane while remaining adherent to your goal. Don't do extreme restrictions on any one food group, but don't make crap the majority of your meals either. And it's a learning process. Enjoy the knowledge you give yourself as you find out what foods you like, tolerate, and can't stand. Because fk kale. With a rusty spoon.
I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it (said Alice).
I really do know from experience that the simpler I eat, the better my success, and the more protein (within reason), the better – but I keep wanting to elaborate on that. I read the forums and keep seeing, “eat what you like, but in the right portions” and “no food should be forbidden”. I do wonderfully with things like chicken or shrimp stir fries, grilled or broiled meat and fish, simple steamed veggies, yogurt and fruit. It’s when I start adding in things like bread/pasta/rice/potatoes that things start to go south. I have diabetes; I have to control starches and sugars for the sake of my blood glucose, so I try to keep them minimal. I can keep them minimal for a good while, but I’m all too fond of starchy carbs and eventually I start to build up cravings and a bread orgy looms. Even that wouldn’t be too awful if it was a one-off, but it takes me a while to get myself back down to being happy with “minimal” again. There shouldn’t be anything wrong with tortellini, chicken sausage and pesto, or a turkey club sandwich with a spinach salad on the side – but it starts me on a bad tangent.
The holiday diet break was like that. Yes, the sweet hyper-palatables are definitely a big old trap for me, but that’s one I can see coming. Cookies, candy, cake, holiday specialties, those don’t really surprise me, and knowing the enemy helps. It’s when I think, “oh, I can have a small baked potato with a grilled steak and green veg, it fits in my calories” – that’s the thin edge of the wedge.
I know this, I KNOW all these things. I think I just keep hoping that I can open up my food repertoire and try something less plain to eat, and I’m not ready for that now, if I ever will be. So back I go to simpler and greener and minimal-er carbs for a few months, when I’ll try another break with better-tweaked macros.
And fk kale indeed. It actually isn’t bad, it’s just been so overhyped as a superfood that I don’t ever want to see it again.
This post has been sitting in my drafts for days under rewrite while I tried not to sound like a whiny four year old.
If you're diabetic, all the more reason that protein will be necessary since the rate of gluconeogenesis is accelerated, and you'd rather have that protein turnover come from food rather than skeletal muscle. Also, for diabetics especially, the worst combination of macros together would be excessive carbs + fat since the two together completely take over the priority of oxidation, meaning carbs will be first in line to take over burning for fuel and any fat will go straight to storage, but diabetic fat cells are already full for the most part, so that fat gets stored into other cells that weren't meant to store fat; i.e. liver, pancreas, kidneys, etc.
And if excess glucose can't get stored (because of full fat cells), it remains in circulation and will linger and potentially stay in the smaller blood vessels like fingers, toes, eyes, kidneys which are what cause neuropathy, retinopathy, nephropathy, respectively. I don't really need to state the end-stage of those problems, but the worst case scenario is loss of those nerves.
So things like pastry and dessert, which are easily a heavy combination of sugar + fat, are exacerbating diabetes on a biochemical level.
That's not to say that you can/t eat carbs or fat (diabetics usually choose one over the other), but since T2D is a more severe form of insulin resistance, many diabetics tend to respond better to a low[er] carb diet. In any case, earn your carbs since carbs are versatile but primarily used as fuel, and not meant to be stored long-term as evidenced by their limited storage capacity.
Decreasing inflammation in fat cells (by losing fat) is what helps regain insulin sensitivity and carb tolerance, but once you're diabetic, you're practically compromised for life. I, myself, am a recovered T2D, but by no means am I able to handle excessive carbs on a daily basis like a non-diabetic and expect my blood sugar to remain in normal ranges. Because I work out relatively intensely 5-6x/week, I can handle up to 150-200g of carbs daily and be okay (~77-83mg/dL), but if I were to keep that intake without working out, then I'd slowly see fasting glucose readings well into the lower 100s. So on days I don't work out or have lighter intensity days, then I'll have a higher fat/lower carb day just to meet calorie goals.7 -
Congrats to Mario! I'm not sure if pancreatitis in felines is similar treatment to that in humans, but the usual treatment that I'm aware of is fasting. What that translates to in cat time will vary, of course. As long as he's keeping down food and not manifesting symptoms of pain then I think he'll be well on the way to health
Fasting a cat is a quick ride to hepatic lipidosis. Withholding food is only done for 24 hours in severe cases of vomiting. So for Muz it will just be nutritional support and keeping him eating and hydrated. Even keeping fat low is now thought to be unnecessary for cats.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Congrats to Mario! I'm not sure if pancreatitis in felines is similar treatment to that in humans, but the usual treatment that I'm aware of is fasting. What that translates to in cat time will vary, of course. As long as he's keeping down food and not manifesting symptoms of pain then I think he'll be well on the way to health
Fasting a cat is a quick ride to hepatic lipidosis. Withholding food is only done for 24 hours in severe cases of vomiting. So for Muz it will just be nutritional support and keeping him eating and hydrated. Even keeping fat low is now thought to be unnecessary for cats.
Ah, gotcha. I've heard the advice to never fast a cat, which I've never done, but I never went further into the reasons why.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Congrats to Mario! I'm not sure if pancreatitis in felines is similar treatment to that in humans, but the usual treatment that I'm aware of is fasting. What that translates to in cat time will vary, of course. As long as he's keeping down food and not manifesting symptoms of pain then I think he'll be well on the way to health
Fasting a cat is a quick ride to hepatic lipidosis. Withholding food is only done for 24 hours in severe cases of vomiting. So for Muz it will just be nutritional support and keeping him eating and hydrated. Even keeping fat low is now thought to be unnecessary for cats.
Ah, gotcha. I've heard the advice to never fast a cat, which I've never done, but I never went further into the reasons why.
Yup, this is why a cat not eating at all for more than a day equals vet trip. It can go bad real quick. Even low appetite my cats generally only get a day or two before they're packed into the carrier.2
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