Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • collectingblues
    collectingblues Posts: 2,541 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Midday Mario update: surgeon just called, all went well and she said everything looked 'very boring'. No unexpected surprises. Lymph nodes were slightly prominent, which gels with the tentative lymphoma dx (gawd knows what's going on if it's not that). I also asked her if, in her experience, given the lack of anything that screamed 'cancer', if she would say we've caught it pretty early, and yes, that would seem to be the case. So, uh, thanks Vidalta (thyroid med)!

    He's in the surgical ward for the rest of today, and will transfer back to the other ward I think tomorrow. I'll get another call later to let me know how he is, and I can ring any time. Damn, they're good!

    Boring is very good. Early is also very good.
  • HDBKLM
    HDBKLM Posts: 466 Member
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    Today was a little better.

    I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.

    So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.

    Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.

    Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?

    I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    Today was a little better.

    I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.

    So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.

    Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.

    Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?

    I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.

    Thanks! I'm intrigued and will have a look. I've been more or less back to it since the New Year but also experiencing some of what others have said about having greater difficulty with compliance, so another, longer term way of looking at things might help. I also wonder if any of it is to do with the weather and the short days? Are any of you all for whom it's currently summer having difficulty staying in calorie range, staying focused, etc.?

    Yup.... I'm a southern hemisphere-er! Summer for me - I don't cope well with the heat, so most days getting out during the day is not really possible without melting or burning to a crisp! I think that partly contributes to my boredom and sloth like tendencies - I do make myself walk/run 2kms to the supermarket as many mornings as possible to buy something random.

    Ok so then it's not necessarily the cold and the short days. At least not for everyone ... I think for me I'm more inclined toward the bottle of red in the evening, and I've been making a lot of hearty soups lately. For me that means stock cubes I'm afraid, as I'm just not THAT great a cook, so although I haven't been doing horrifically CICO-wise, I seem to be retaining water. My measurements this week were strange: my waist-at-narrowest-point and also my hips were half an inch down each, but my trouser waistline was an inch up (meaning my jeans are tighter and therefore I'm angry and sullen, which doesn't help). Goodbye hourglass, hello pocketwatch!
  • Terebynthia
    Terebynthia Posts: 75 Member
    I have to say I credit my D3 supplements with being at least part of what's enabled my to restart on a weight loss journey after 10 years throwing my toys out of my pram. They've been a game changer for me.
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    Today was a little better.

    I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.

    So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.

    Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.

    Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?

    I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    Today was a little better.

    I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.

    So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.

    Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.

    Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?

    I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.

    Thanks! I'm intrigued and will have a look. I've been more or less back to it since the New Year but also experiencing some of what others have said about having greater difficulty with compliance, so another, longer term way of looking at things might help. I also wonder if any of it is to do with the weather and the short days? Are any of you all for whom it's currently summer having difficulty staying in calorie range, staying focused, etc.?

    Me, too! Just downloaded it.
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Morning Mario update: I've had calls from both his student vet, to let me know he did well overnight, and his internal med specialist with blood results.

    T4 is up a bit, so his hyperthyroid is (finally) on the upwards march. He will get radio-iodine treatment possibly as early as mid-Feb, but it will depend on how he is doing and how well he will cope (eat) in isolation.

    SDMA is back in normal range - yay!! (this means unlikely he is in early renal failure)

    Urea is up a bit more again, and specific gravity is showing inadequate concentration. Lots of things could be causing these, and he will either get a retest this afternoon because he will be well hydrated from his drip during op, and/or at two week follow up when he gets his stitches out.

    Lymphoma does look like the most likely candidate given the intestinal wall thickening, not showing any physical signs of IBD, and other possible causes are less common. Can't be ruled out yet, but less likely.

    Everyone loves him, so he is getting lots of cuddles and pats :)

    Next update this afternoon when the surgeon rings.

    (sorry, I know the lab stuff is probably Double Dutch to most, copy pasta from my FB update, where I have a network of crazy cat people friends)

    Happy to hear news and be supportive! :heart:
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Setting off to pick up Mario spaghetti in about half an hour :)

    <3<3<3
  • Terebynthia
    Terebynthia Posts: 75 Member
    ZoneFive wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    ZoneFive wrote: »

    Me three, as to the holiday diet break. It's been -- and is being -- a real fight to stay within calories, and I don't always succeed. I get seriously hungry around midday some days, and my regular lunches just don't seem to cut it. And I'm craving more carbs -- semi-sweet, peanut-buttery carbs. I know I can get on top of this, and for a change I don't feel as though I'm circling the drain with my weight loss, but I miss my good deficit habits.
    Leeg5656 wrote: »

    I think (maybe) a big difference in my two diet breaks was that during my first one, I ate pretty much the same food that I was eating during my deficit, just more of it. Probably 85% health conscious choices. During my Christmas diet break, I ate whatever I saw, which was alot of cakes, pies, candy, cookies, tamales, enchiladas, bread, eggnog, ponche, white russians, and such. I kept within maintenance, for the most part, but the types of food were definitely different than what I allow myself during deficit. I just don't have enough calories to eat those kinds of foods in quantity and get the nutrition that I need in my deficit calories. I have alot to learn about sustainability, but I am working on it. Could those rich foods be what is calling to me now? Could a block in weight loss have more to do with emotional attachments than sheer will-power or body requirements?

    To both of these sentiments, there's a predominant theme which likely applies to the majority of dieters: there was a habit formed to create and stay within a deficit by eliminating or reducing the intake of hyper-palatable foods; as soon as the holidays came around, that habit was broken with reckless abandonment and now there is difficulty in going back to prior habits.

    Hyper-palatable foods are the primary driving force behind increasing rates of weight and fat gain. It's not necessarily the fault of the consumer or the manufacturer, but convenience food is specifically designed and engineered to be damn tasty and drive sales up. Along that same of thought, even the tastiest foods and recipes we cook are usually a mix of salt, sugar, and fat, creating our own versions of hyper-palatability.

    This leads to asinine conclusions that "sugar is addictive!" and other forms of horse$hit with over-reaching statements. Sugar in itself is not addictive, but when you combine it with contrasting flavors and consistency, this amalgam of explosive flavors sends a surge of stimuli to your reward center neurotransmitters and all of a sudden foodgasms become the only thing our bodies respond to, and anything less is just unsatisfactory, usually leading to difficulty in trying to cut calories in the long run.

    The problem seen in a lot of dieting strategies is that people seem to misinterpret the reduction in hyper-palatability as "completely eliminate them from my diet because will-power alone is weak" or something along those lines. I've said before that it takes years to develop the habit to become overfat. That means you've trained your body to respond excitedly to foods that stimulate pleasure and become averse to foods that don't meet that sensation, for years. It will take years to train your body to respond positively to nutrient dense food as well. And that doesn't mean you have to learn to love eating kale. Srsly fk kale.

    All it means is that you need to adjust your food choices to be a bridge between palatable and nutrient dense. Instead of chicken nuggets, fries, and a coke, opt for grilled/rotisserie chicken, roasted potatoes, and a diet coke (and if you have an argument against diet coke because cancer, rat studies don't count). You haven't changed the macro composition, but you've eliminated refined vegetable oil and high fructose corn syrup already with that change.

    The point is you can still enjoy food that is both tasty and nutrient dense, just not to the point of "zomfg I need to change my underwear" calorie bombs. And if you want a quick tip to help you naturally cut calories, if you focus solely on whole food protein sources, your body will almost always feel uncomfortably full before you can eat anything else. In itself, protein is self-limiting in that way. Think of what you gorged on over the holidays. How much of it was protein dense? Probably not a lot.

    TL;DR - Protein is, was, and always will be a priority macro. Eat a lot of it and eat it first before anything else. Simplify your diet to follow a 70/30 or 80/20 rule: 70/80% nutrient density and 30/20% whatever you like. That keeps you sane while remaining adherent to your goal. Don't do extreme restrictions on any one food group, but don't make crap the majority of your meals either. And it's a learning process. Enjoy the knowledge you give yourself as you find out what foods you like, tolerate, and can't stand. Because fk kale. With a rusty spoon.


    I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it (said Alice).

    I really do know from experience that the simpler I eat, the better my success, and the more protein (within reason), the better – but I keep wanting to elaborate on that. I read the forums and keep seeing, “eat what you like, but in the right portions” and “no food should be forbidden”. I do wonderfully with things like chicken or shrimp stir fries, grilled or broiled meat and fish, simple steamed veggies, yogurt and fruit. It’s when I start adding in things like bread/pasta/rice/potatoes that things start to go south. I have diabetes; I have to control starches and sugars for the sake of my blood glucose, so I try to keep them minimal. I can keep them minimal for a good while, but I’m all too fond of starchy carbs and eventually I start to build up cravings and a bread orgy looms. Even that wouldn’t be too awful if it was a one-off, but it takes me a while to get myself back down to being happy with “minimal” again. There shouldn’t be anything wrong with tortellini, chicken sausage and pesto, or a turkey club sandwich with a spinach salad on the side – but it starts me on a bad tangent.

    The holiday diet break was like that. Yes, the sweet hyper-palatables are definitely a big old trap for me, but that’s one I can see coming. Cookies, candy, cake, holiday specialties, those don’t really surprise me, and knowing the enemy helps. It’s when I think, “oh, I can have a small baked potato with a grilled steak and green veg, it fits in my calories” – that’s the thin edge of the wedge.

    I know this, I KNOW all these things. I think I just keep hoping that I can open up my food repertoire and try something less plain to eat, and I’m not ready for that now, if I ever will be. So back I go to simpler and greener and minimal-er carbs for a few months, when I’ll try another break with better-tweaked macros.

    And fk kale indeed. It actually isn’t bad, it’s just been so overhyped as a superfood that I don’t ever want to see it again.

    This post has been sitting in my drafts for days under rewrite while I tried not to sound like a whiny four year old.

    I hear you. Carbs hate me, and I'm much happier without them - pretty much all my carbs come from veggies and glasses of wine :)
  • Maxxitt
    Maxxitt Posts: 1,281 Member
    ZoneFive wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    ZoneFive wrote: »

    Me three, as to the holiday diet break. It's been -- and is being -- a real fight to stay within calories, and I don't always succeed. I get seriously hungry around midday some days, and my regular lunches just don't seem to cut it. And I'm craving more carbs -- semi-sweet, peanut-buttery carbs. I know I can get on top of this, and for a change I don't feel as though I'm circling the drain with my weight loss, but I miss my good deficit habits.
    Leeg5656 wrote: »

    I think (maybe) a big difference in my two diet breaks was that during my first one, I ate pretty much the same food that I was eating during my deficit, just more of it. Probably 85% health conscious choices. During my Christmas diet break, I ate whatever I saw, which was alot of cakes, pies, candy, cookies, tamales, enchiladas, bread, eggnog, ponche, white russians, and such. I kept within maintenance, for the most part, but the types of food were definitely different than what I allow myself during deficit. I just don't have enough calories to eat those kinds of foods in quantity and get the nutrition that I need in my deficit calories. I have alot to learn about sustainability, but I am working on it. Could those rich foods be what is calling to me now? Could a block in weight loss have more to do with emotional attachments than sheer will-power or body requirements?

    To both of these sentiments, there's a predominant theme which likely applies to the majority of dieters: there was a habit formed to create and stay within a deficit by eliminating or reducing the intake of hyper-palatable foods; as soon as the holidays came around, that habit was broken with reckless abandonment and now there is difficulty in going back to prior habits.

    Hyper-palatable foods are the primary driving force behind increasing rates of weight and fat gain. It's not necessarily the fault of the consumer or the manufacturer, but convenience food is specifically designed and engineered to be damn tasty and drive sales up. Along that same of thought, even the tastiest foods and recipes we cook are usually a mix of salt, sugar, and fat, creating our own versions of hyper-palatability.

    This leads to asinine conclusions that "sugar is addictive!" and other forms of horse$hit with over-reaching statements. Sugar in itself is not addictive, but when you combine it with contrasting flavors and consistency, this amalgam of explosive flavors sends a surge of stimuli to your reward center neurotransmitters and all of a sudden foodgasms become the only thing our bodies respond to, and anything less is just unsatisfactory, usually leading to difficulty in trying to cut calories in the long run.

    The problem seen in a lot of dieting strategies is that people seem to misinterpret the reduction in hyper-palatability as "completely eliminate them from my diet because will-power alone is weak" or something along those lines. I've said before that it takes years to develop the habit to become overfat. That means you've trained your body to respond excitedly to foods that stimulate pleasure and become averse to foods that don't meet that sensation, for years. It will take years to train your body to respond positively to nutrient dense food as well. And that doesn't mean you have to learn to love eating kale. Srsly fk kale.

    All it means is that you need to adjust your food choices to be a bridge between palatable and nutrient dense. Instead of chicken nuggets, fries, and a coke, opt for grilled/rotisserie chicken, roasted potatoes, and a diet coke (and if you have an argument against diet coke because cancer, rat studies don't count). You haven't changed the macro composition, but you've eliminated refined vegetable oil and high fructose corn syrup already with that change.

    The point is you can still enjoy food that is both tasty and nutrient dense, just not to the point of "zomfg I need to change my underwear" calorie bombs. And if you want a quick tip to help you naturally cut calories, if you focus solely on whole food protein sources, your body will almost always feel uncomfortably full before you can eat anything else. In itself, protein is self-limiting in that way. Think of what you gorged on over the holidays. How much of it was protein dense? Probably not a lot.

    TL;DR - Protein is, was, and always will be a priority macro. Eat a lot of it and eat it first before anything else. Simplify your diet to follow a 70/30 or 80/20 rule: 70/80% nutrient density and 30/20% whatever you like. That keeps you sane while remaining adherent to your goal. Don't do extreme restrictions on any one food group, but don't make crap the majority of your meals either. And it's a learning process. Enjoy the knowledge you give yourself as you find out what foods you like, tolerate, and can't stand. Because fk kale. With a rusty spoon.


    It’s when I think, “oh, I can have a small baked potato with a grilled steak and green veg, it fits in my calories” – that’s the thin edge of the wedge.

    This post has been sitting in my drafts for days under rewrite while I tried not to sound like a whiny four year old.

    Ah, that thin edge ... I know it well. This is where scheduled "refeed" days have been really helpful. That's the designated time for the baked potato, the really good dense bread, or the whole grain pancakes, all of which I can fit in my calories and sometimes do during the week, but they don't have the "gateway drug" effect they once did.

  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    edited January 2018
    ZoneFive wrote: »

    I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it (said Alice).

    "Just because I'm not so good at taking my own advice, doesn't mean I don't know what's right." Brian Andreas (Story People) :smiley:
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    Mario looks very bright eyed after all that. Here's to more adventures for him when he is up to speed. I am glad you got the answers and some relief Nony_Mouse!
  • Terebynthia
    Terebynthia Posts: 75 Member
    Yay Mario! He looks like quite a character :)
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Yay Mario! He looks like quite a character :)

    Personality plus!

    Another day of trying to keep the house cool for us. It's already 25 C at 9am