Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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People seem to be stuck in pending limbo for a while in Lyle's group. I'm under the impression that some of the vetting comes from a general glance at your list of "friends of friends" or groups you're a part of. Even some of the people I invite get stuck. I have no explanation other than it's so flooded with requests that vetting each person is just a complete ball ache. I don't even pay attention to anyone's request in the group I admin lol. I just assume someone else will let them in (ಥ﹏ಥ)
I got in almost immediately........1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »newheavensearth wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
You're among friends with the data thing. You might want to get yourself a weight trend app. I use Happyscale on the iPhone, there's also Libra and Trendweight.
As for the break. I have naturally taken breaks at Christmas and on holiday which happens to have been May the last two years. In my first year when I had the most to lose I definitely managed fine without one. Although it was actually more like 8 months as I didn't seriously start until April that year.
It's been harder compliance wise since and i knew about diet breaks and should have strategised better to help what has been rocky compliance since!
As alluded to above, they are also great practice for maintenance which shouldn't be underestimated. Adjusting down as you shrink to see what it takes to maintain the weight you are currently at is a great thing in my opinion and makes actually kind of pleased I didn't go hard and lose it all in 12 months. I have all the tools now to not go back to where I was.
I've been using HappyScale for a couple of months now, and it's truly wonderful how much that little app has drained the drama out of weighing for me! When I did WW, the weekly weigh-in could get awfully fraught for me -- did I lose? did I gain? will that wretched receptionist announce my numbers in front of everyone on line? Now it's just an everyday thing, and the up and down blips translated into a graph makes the process much calmer.
What I'm doing with that now is noting the daily weights in my food diary, so I can see quickly what yesterday's food might have to do with today's number. Again, just in the interest of drawing some possible correlations.
Thanksgiving/Christmas seems like a very logical time for a diet break. I won't even think of it as a New Year's Resolution (ugh) to go on a diet, just resuming a behavior after a test project has run.
WW seems so variable in this. I was a WW way back a billion years ago, and did time as recorder (front desk gimme your money person), weigher, and leader. We never disclosed weight/loss/gain. If people wanted to share in class, they could, but it was up to them. I have heard some truly awful stories about what goes on though. I'm sorry that happened to you.
Here's one.. getting the stink eye at every gain or fluctuation. Getting the stink eye for not losing the big numbers or fast enough. Even if you're on maintenance your still expected to show a loss to some degree. Like hello? I'm supposed to fluctuate between that +/- 2 lbs. My body is figuring out what to do.
Sigh. I digress. But yeah that will screw you up after a while.
That really does suck. It's definitely not like that everywhere. I knew a hell of a lot less about normal fluctuations and things that masked fat loss, and definitely didn't know about adaptive thermogenesis, last century (I was, like, 19-20 when I was a leader), but I always, always tried to be positive with my members and find reasons why they weren't losing. Being negative is just discouraging. That's not what I was paid for. I'd like to think I was an awesome leader.
I have a few friends who constantly on and off Slimming World (basically same model different name as WW, which we also have). And they get so worked up about weigh in and if they gain one week they literally think they've gained. I take such issue with the "leaders" not knowing their physiology *kitten* from their elbow, even the basics. So these people just bob along in mortal fear of the weight in when they've been "bad" and eaten over their "syns" or whatever.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »People seem to be stuck in pending limbo for a while in Lyle's group. I'm under the impression that some of the vetting comes from a general glance at your list of "friends of friends" or groups you're a part of. Even some of the people I invite get stuck. I have no explanation other than it's so flooded with requests that vetting each person is just a complete ball ache. I don't even pay attention to anyone's request in the group I admin lol. I just assume someone else will let them in (ಥ﹏ಥ)
Oh god, I've probably got all kinds of crap in terms of pages I follow. And probably groups that people have added me to that I've never gotten around to unfollowing.
Yeah the occasional time I do look at group join requests and if I happen to see "X is a member of 423 groups" I'm kind of like "sweet hell, why should I let you in here?" .. but I'll approve them anyway (because of vetting laziness) and if they spam/don't read the pinned post = instant ban
I am admin of a very niche group, we vet everyone. My word people just join groups to group collect I'm sure.0 -
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bmeadows380 wrote: »Okay, I've finally managed to skim all 29 pages, and its a lot to take in, especially since I've been reading/hearing the exact opposite in other threads by other folks, especially in the debate forum.......
But I'm not sure how this should apply to me and where I'm at. I'm still morbidly obese. I started in january at 375 lbs. I'm down to 280 lbs now, 41 weeks in. I've been losing at an average of 2.3 lbs a week when I average my loss out across the entire year.
The calculator.net numbers seem to be closest to accurate for me, though I'd usually set my calorie limit about 100 less because I'm not exact on my counting during the day. Right now, I"m set at dead on - 1400 a day to lose 2 lbs per week, though I just recently reset to this lower number).
I'm sedentary definitely. Desk job, not so much activity after work, especially on week days. I'm an introvert and tend to keep to myself. I tried a gym for a couple of months, but it was an abysmal failure. Any activity I get is from the house remodeling mentioned before, and it's going to be going on for another month or two.
I've never lifted weights extensively, and really have no idea where to even start to get correct form. Right now, I cannot afford a trainer.
At the moment, I'm aiming for 1400 calories/day with 40/35/25 carbs/fat/protein. I know that's probably still low on the protein side, but its a huge struggle for me to even get that much in a day. If I focus on protein, then I'm not getting enough fruits and vegetables in a day. I also have days where its hard to get my fat levels in, so while the carbs are set to 40, I'm in actuality probably getting somewhere between 43% and 50%. And I acknowledge that I'm not exact on my calorie counting - I weight some things, but often snack a little over, usually in th neighborhood of 50-150 calories a day. I didn't consider this to be a terrible thing right now, since I still have so much to lose, and I was actually setting my calorie limit 50 - 100 calories below what calculator.net prescribed (which is actually lower than what MFP's calculator called for). And I've lost steadily for the most part, so I wasn't too worried about it.
But i have been having problems lately. the loss has slowed down and is fluctuating badly. I know that part of the problem is that since my life is currently in terrible flux (new position, moved back home across from parents, living in a camper while trying to remodel my new home before the snow flies, eating out a lot and missing calorie counts more since I'm eating with my parents every evening instead of cooking for myself), my routine is obviously being impacted and I'm sure the stress has my cortisol levels through the roof.
So being that I'm still far, far from being remotely close to where my end weight should be, should I be considering perhaps a diet break and not so much a true re-feed? Though I know that as I up calories, the carbs are going to go up naturally. Is 2 weeks the normal idea? I could do it starting next week and ending after Thanksgiving, so it would fit quite nicely with the holiday, especially as its a high-carb holiday anyway.
Since I was starting from a morbidly obese starting weight, one that I had been at most of my life except for a short stint 5 years ago where I lost 90 lbs, how do I even figure out what my maintenance calories truly are? The 11Xbody weight formula to be in a deficient is terribly higher than what I'm currently eating at! AND I'm PCOS AND I'm currently being treated for thyroid cancer, so my TSH is suppressed way below normal levels - my endo is keeping me in the extremely hyper-thyroid range, though in all honestly, I don't have any hyper symptoms, other than heat sensitivity; if fact, if we'd go by how I feel, I'd still think I was hypo thyroid.
Other the remodeling activities, I'm still not very active and have yet to find an exercise that I actually enjoy enough to keep at it. And since I can't afford to pay for a trainer right now, any suggestions? Or since I still have 125+lbs to lose, is it necessary yet?
The idea of actually taking a break is absolutely terrifying to me, especially since I lost a lot of weight 5 years ago and gained almost all of it back. And since I'm only about 4 lbs shy of the 100 lb mark, my instinct is to keep marching on until I finally hit that 100 lb mark or perhaps overshoot it a bit. But I will say that its been a huge struggle the last 2 months to lose weight.
any help would be greatly appreciated! It's very nice to find a thread that isn't full of arguments and veiled derogatory comments!
Welcome to the thread. Unfortunately, a lot of what is repeated is a standard answer. First, let me address the bold. A diet break is a controlled increase in calories. It doesn't mean you go bat crap crazy on all the food. It means, you would purposely set at maintenance (for you it's about 2400 if you are averaging 2 lbs a week). The biggest benefit, even outside of hormone improvement, is a few things; 1. it helps you understand what your maintenance will look like, 2. it gives your body a break from the stress of calorie restriction, and 3. often provides your body with additional nutrients which can help with daily movements (increased expenditure from daily activities). That latter is what happened to me when I increased my calories. I actually lost more weight at 2300 calories than I ever did at 1800.
Regarding exercise. You don't need to start with a trainer. There are plethora of easy programs that can give you enough time to learn how to properly lift. In the link below, there is everything from body weight to barbell training.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
One of the biggest problems I have seen is that most people know how to lose weight, but they don't know how to set up a maintenance calories. And often those weight loss strategies are aggressive (because we are impatient). Diet breaks are a means to understand transition. The more you know about how to transition now, the more likely you can get there when it's truly time.
Sorry for the rambling.
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This has crossed my mind also. Electrolyte imbalance can cause all kinds of weird things with water retention and unexpected gain.As for the hydration status, while getting enough water is good, often times over-hydrating actually can dehydrate you, increasing the need for more water, leading to electrolyte imbalance, leading to wild fluctuations in hormone signaling2 -
Side note. I am not sure if it's the refeeds or the new workout, but damn I am looking more lean lately even while staying the same weight the past few weeks. So NSV for me. Woot!14
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This has crossed my mind also. Electrolyte imbalance can cause all kinds of weird things with water retention and unexpected gain.As for the hydration status, while getting enough water is good, often times over-hydrating actually can dehydrate you, increasing the need for more water, leading to electrolyte imbalance, leading to wild fluctuations in hormone signaling
This growing trend of guzzling down as much water as you can every day is potentially dangerous at the extreme end for people who don't understand nuance and for people who still take it too far there is a big issue with electrolytes. But I don't know how to counter that, it all started decades ago when 8 glasses a day became the arbitrary standard and then models jumped on it saying it helped keep their skin clear.6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »People seem to be stuck in pending limbo for a while in Lyle's group. I'm under the impression that some of the vetting comes from a general glance at your list of "friends of friends" or groups you're a part of. Even some of the people I invite get stuck. I have no explanation other than it's so flooded with requests that vetting each person is just a complete ball ache. I don't even pay attention to anyone's request in the group I admin lol. I just assume someone else will let them in (ಥ﹏ಥ)
Oh god, I've probably got all kinds of crap in terms of pages I follow. And probably groups that people have added me to that I've never gotten around to unfollowing.
Yeah the occasional time I do look at group join requests and if I happen to see "X is a member of 423 groups" I'm kind of like "sweet hell, why should I let you in here?" .. but I'll approve them anyway (because of vetting laziness) and if they spam/don't read the pinned post = instant ban
Nah, I checked and I'm in, like, seven groups - a few fitness, a few archaeology, a couple cat related. Nothing too derpy.3 -
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I think I'll try a two day refeed and see how it goes. I've been losing weight for 17 weeks and have lost 8.4kg, so averaging around a pound a week. I'm 48 years, 163cm (5'4'') and currently 61.6kg (136lbs) aiming for 59kg (130lbs). Actually, in the long run I don't really care if I end up higher than 59kg if I am more toned, but that's going to take a while so 59kg is the goal for the moment.
I calculated the net calories I've been eating and it came to about 1450. That's more than I thought I was eating on average actually, but I've been fairly flexible with my calories and upping them on days that I was hungrier. MFP had originally set me 1200, but I found I could rarely get down to that anyway. I thought I was eating around 1350 on average but apparently not.
So I'm thinking I should probably refeed on about 1900 calories. Does that sound about right?
I might try a diet break as well but I've got some psychological resistance to breaking I have to say.
I'll see how the refeed days go first. I haven't felt particularly hungry yet but I kind of like the idea of a preemptive strike, especially since I have started to go off the rails when I reach this point in my weight loss before.
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Love seeing all the awesome progress in this thread
I wonder how bulk cycles play into the whole deficit break. Just when I get pretty lean (after a bit of a painful deficit)... I don't stay there very long, I reverse diet into a bulk and stay in a surplus for quite a few months, which is a huge breath of fresh air.6 -
I can understand your hesitation at doing a full break being so close, @JoLightensUp. I'm planning another one in a couple of weeks, and I could well be within a kg of goal. See how you go with the refeed, you can always extend it out.
And yes, 1900-1950 sounds right if you're averaging 1450 atm.2 -
Day two of Strong Curves done, using my shiny new pull up bar and swiss ball. Working out two days in a row, yeah, I'll shut up now...hammies still a bit sore from yesterday, and arms pretty much just laughed at me when I suggested full push ups (I did manage three), so did a mix of negative push ups and from knees to get full sets.6
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »I can understand your hesitation at doing a full break being so close, @JoLightensUp. I'm planning another one in a couple of weeks, and I could well be within a kg of goal. See how you go with the refeed, you can always extend it out.
And yes, 1900-1950 sounds right if you're averaging 1450 atm.
Thanks @Nony_Mouse. Yes, I might just extend the refeed into a break. I'm going to do the refeeds sometime this week; haven't decided when exactly but looking forward to it now! 1 -
JoLightensUp wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I can understand your hesitation at doing a full break being so close, @JoLightensUp. I'm planning another one in a couple of weeks, and I could well be within a kg of goal. See how you go with the refeed, you can always extend it out.
And yes, 1900-1950 sounds right if you're averaging 1450 atm.
Thanks @Nony_Mouse. Yes, I might just extend the refeed into a break. I'm going to do the refeeds sometime this week; haven't decided when exactly but looking forward to it now!
I love planning my refeed weekends. I admit to being a bit same same in my day to day food (okay, a lot same same), not really for diet purposes so much as life purposes, so I'm enjoying cooking different things again. This weekend is pizza. Yes, I am somehow going to pull that off whilst keeping my fat around 50g...4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I can understand your hesitation at doing a full break being so close, @JoLightensUp. I'm planning another one in a couple of weeks, and I could well be within a kg of goal. See how you go with the refeed, you can always extend it out.
And yes, 1900-1950 sounds right if you're averaging 1450 atm.
Thanks @Nony_Mouse. Yes, I might just extend the refeed into a break. I'm going to do the refeeds sometime this week; haven't decided when exactly but looking forward to it now!
I love planning my refeed weekends. I admit to being a bit same same in my day to day food (okay, a lot same same), not really for diet purposes so much as life purposes, so I'm enjoying cooking different things again. This weekend is pizza. Yes, I am somehow going to pull that off whilst keeping my fat around 50g...
Pizza is easy - my fave low fat version is chicken, BBQ sauce, mushroom, pumpkin, onion, red capsicum, low fat cheese. We buy pizza dough balls and roll them out ourselves - they have less fat than a lot of the preformed ones2 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Pizza is easy - my fave low fat version is chicken, BBQ sauce, mushroom, pumpkin, onion, red capsicum, low fat cheese. We buy pizza dough balls and roll them out ourselves - they have less fat than a lot of the preformed ones
Have already bought my delicious sprouted seed pizza bases (gluten free, can't be bothered making my own), have low fat feta, so I just need to control myself with the mozzarella. A mental tote says I should be fine. I could have gotten a different base that's lower fat, but I'm sticking with tried and true (they're actually used by a national pizza chain as one of their gluten free options), cos I don't want to be disappointed! 3 -
Love seeing all the awesome progress in this thread
I wonder how bulk cycles play into the whole deficit break. Just when I get pretty lean (after a bit of a painful deficit)... I don't stay there very long, I reverse diet into a bulk and stay in a surplus for quite a few months, which is a huge breath of fresh air.
Bulk cycles had no impact on me, but I'm going to say I have other stuff going on that makes me not respond in a normal way...
My latest test results are awesome.
Low thyroid, low oestrogen and testosterone, practically no progesterone. I now have to get acth and igf/gh tests....
The Dr was more concerned about my haematology results, which show I'm slightly anaemic (but not due to iron, which was tested and ok), and have slightly low neutrophils and platelets...she's referred me to a haematologist to make sure that's ok first
No real answers, but at least heading in the right direction! (or a direction?)
Also guessing my body isn't doing anything it's supposed to properly... Yay!4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Pizza is easy - my fave low fat version is chicken, BBQ sauce, mushroom, pumpkin, onion, red capsicum, low fat cheese. We buy pizza dough balls and roll them out ourselves - they have less fat than a lot of the preformed ones
Have already bought my delicious sprouted seed pizza bases (gluten free, can't be bothered making my own), have low fat feta, so I just need to control myself with the mozzarella. A mental tote says I should be fine. I could have gotten a different base that's lower fat, but I'm sticking with tried and true (they're actually used by a national pizza chain as one of their gluten free options), cos I don't want to be disappointed!
Sounds delicious! I love sprouted grain stuff... We have a local company that makes a range of sprouted grain breads (not the heavy brick type bread, which I also love but isnt really sandwich appropriate)0 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Pizza is easy - my fave low fat version is chicken, BBQ sauce, mushroom, pumpkin, onion, red capsicum, low fat cheese. We buy pizza dough balls and roll them out ourselves - they have less fat than a lot of the preformed ones
Have already bought my delicious sprouted seed pizza bases (gluten free, can't be bothered making my own), have low fat feta, so I just need to control myself with the mozzarella. A mental tote says I should be fine. I could have gotten a different base that's lower fat, but I'm sticking with tried and true (they're actually used by a national pizza chain as one of their gluten free options), cos I don't want to be disappointed!
Sounds delicious! I love sprouted grain stuff... We have a local company that makes a range of sprouted grain breads (not the heavy brick type bread, which I also love but isnt really sandwich appropriate)
These guys do breads too, but I haven't tried them. One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle
Stuck the pizza base and cheeses in my diary to see what it came to for fat, and it's fine. Pizza will also have sauce, garlic, onion, fresh basil, mushroom and red capsicum. I used to do that topping combo when I made my own pizzas regularly, and it's super yum.4 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Love seeing all the awesome progress in this thread
I wonder how bulk cycles play into the whole deficit break. Just when I get pretty lean (after a bit of a painful deficit)... I don't stay there very long, I reverse diet into a bulk and stay in a surplus for quite a few months, which is a huge breath of fresh air.
Bulk cycles had no impact on me, but I'm going to say I have other stuff going on that makes me not respond in a normal way...
My latest test results are awesome.
Low thyroid, low oestrogen and testosterone, practically no progesterone. I now have to get acth and igf/gh tests....
The Dr was more concerned about my haematology results, which show I'm slightly anaemic (but not due to iron, which was tested and ok), and have slightly low neutrophils and platelets...she's referred me to a haematologist to make sure that's ok first
No real answers, but at least heading in the right direction! (or a direction?)
Also guessing my body isn't doing anything it's supposed to properly... Yay!
Damn![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
. But, at least something to work with. 2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »
These guys do breads too, but I haven't tried them. One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle
Same. I might be missing out on some pretty good products, but there's an irritable part of me that just says oh please. I thought paleo was all about natural and unprocessed, just like our ancestors did? If you want bread, have bread. Bah. Humbug. You flintstones get off my lawn. (wanders off grumbling)2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »
One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle .
You mean, Paleo people couldn't get bread at the store?
And one of my personal favorites is women protein powders and BCAA's. Essentially, you pay for underdosing at 2x the price of males. All because it's pink.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »
One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle .
You mean, Paleo people couldn't get bread at the store?
And one of my personal favorites is women protein powders and BCAA's. Essentially, you pay for underdosing at 2x the price of males. All because it's pink.
I also don't get the deal with pink. I hate pink. Are women supposed to like it?4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, diet break and refeed are two different things, it's not that diet break isn't 'true'. The much higher carbs on refeed are necessary because you're doing it over only a couple of days. On diet break, you still need to have carbs above 100-150g to bring leptin back up, but it sounds like you're doing that anyway.
I had thought they were different, but wasn't sure if they did the same thing or if it was necessary, especially for someone who isn't exercising as much, to do a true "refeed". I definitely get between 100 - 150g carbs every day - when I look at my 90 day report, I'm pretty well averaging around 130-140g. I'll definitely get over 150g if I do a full diet break!2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm another sloppy logger, so I leave a buffer too. It's my way of staying sane after three years of logging.
Diet breaks are recommended for everyone as part of deficit eating because of the body's adaptations. They just need to be less frequent the more fat you have to lose. You've been at this a while, a diet break could make sense for you IF you stop stressing about it
As far as figuring out your maintenance calories, you've been losing 2 pounds a week eating 1400, so that would make your maintenance around 2400 (a two pound a week loss is a 1,000 calorie deficit). You could leave a small buffer for your sloppy logging.
Thank you!
I think I will try it, though I might keep going until I hit the 100 lb loss just for principle - I'm 4 lbs shy! Thanksgiving week seems like a good break week, though lol
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle .
You mean, Paleo people couldn't get bread at the store?
And one of my personal favorites is women protein powders and BCAA's. Essentially, you pay for underdosing at 2x the price of males. All because it's pink.
I also don't get the deal with pink. I hate pink. Are women supposed to like it?
Greatest marketing ploy overall through time. Slap some pink or purple on it and mark it up 50%. Women will buy. I will admit I'm a sucker for a pretty pink disposable razor, I just need to stop being stupid and buy the mens ones.
But yeah, "fitness" products aimed at women. Stop falling for it!3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Also, diet break and refeed are two different things, it's not that diet break isn't 'true'. The much higher carbs on refeed are necessary because you're doing it over only a couple of days. On diet break, you still need to have carbs above 100-150g to bring leptin back up, but it sounds like you're doing that anyway.
I had thought they were different, but wasn't sure if they did the same thing or if it was necessary, especially for someone who isn't exercising as much, to do a true "refeed". I definitely get between 100 - 150g carbs every day - when I look at my 90 day report, I'm pretty well averaging around 130-140g. I'll definitely get over 150g if I do a full diet break!
Yeah it's not really about activity but more duration. 2 days = refeed with only raising carbs. 1 week + = diet break and you can do what you want with your macros as the extended period means regular carbs are fine.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
One has 'paleo' in the name, so I refuse to try that one on principle .
You mean, Paleo people couldn't get bread at the store?
And one of my personal favorites is women protein powders and BCAA's. Essentially, you pay for underdosing at 2x the price of males. All because it's pink.
I also don't get the deal with pink. I hate pink. Are women supposed to like it?
Evidently. I offered to buy my wife a pink Glock. She told me If I did, It would be mine.9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gQCqxnchR4
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