Of refeeds and diet breaks

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Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    anubis609 wrote: »
    So glad to hear everyone's refeed/diet break has been working.

    Just a personal update to serve as a warning: I inadvertently went into an average surplus on the weekend due to celebratory occasions (caution: don't do this consistently lol), and going back to whatever normal schedule of training/diet I carry has dropped 4/7lbs of fluctuation spike.

    Silver lining: the practice of undulating periods of highs and lows is still a way of keeping maintenance and/or having a net deficit/surplus, depending on goals. Of course, it's still very prudent not to make either undulating period too high or too low simply because it's extremely easy to trigger issues if you have them already and are recovering.

    The overarching point, I think I'm trying to make is that regardless of the situation, we still have control, but that control shouldn't be so restrictive that you break, and freedom shouldn't be so uninhibited that you end up doing more harm than good. This is where "flexibility" and "moderation" lie: controlled freedom and practiced within reason.

    ( ಠ ͜ʖರೃ)

    Ironically, your silver lining is pretty much lean gains.
  • ZoneFive
    ZoneFive Posts: 570 Member
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    I say all that to show that I've been under a ton of stress lately, so cortisol levels are probably pretty high. And now my immune system is weakened. So I'm wondering if a diet break would help my immune system repair itself as well.

    Even if a diet break doesn't directly affect your immune system (I have no real idea; I don't even play a doctor on TV), I imagine that the relaxation of stress from tracking, trying to pare down calories and generally watching every food decision would be a very good thing for all your systems.

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    I just came off a head cold only to find my symptoms coming back with a horrible sore throat. Turns out I have strep.

    I have been working since June on getting one house ready to sell, then working very hard in the last 2 months trying to get the new place remodeled after having to gut the place. For one month, I was driving back and forth; now I'm temporarily living in a camper, hoping we'll have enough done by December to move in at least partially.

    I say all that to show that I've been under a ton of stress lately, so cortisol levels are probably pretty high. And now my immune system is weakened. So I'm wondering if a diet break would help my immune system repair itself as well.

    Immune system working properly does take more energy, doubt it's broken needing repair though - just attempting to do it's job - sometimes it loses.
    Sometimes because of factors we caused - lack of sleep, food, stress, ect.

    Body under stress of sickness is always nice to give it a break from stresses you have control over.
    Diet being one.

    All night gaming sessions should probably be out too. ;-)
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 2,981 Member
    heybales wrote: »
    Immune system working properly does take more energy, doubt it's broken needing repair though - just attempting to do it's job - sometimes it loses.
    Sometimes because of factors we caused - lack of sleep, food, stress, ect.

    Body under stress of sickness is always nice to give it a break from stresses you have control over.
    Diet being one.

    All night gaming sessions should probably be out too. ;-)


    Ah, but the all night gaming sessions could be considered part of my recovery from the stress! Lol



    Nony_Mouse wrote: »

    In one of the many Lyle podcasts, he mentions that immunity is one of the things that falls when you're at a deficit (ie you really do get sick more often on a diet), so yes, a diet break should help :)

    Thank you! I had figured that made a lot of sense! Of course right now, with a fever and a throat that feel like it's been shredded with a razor, eating isn't high on my list of things I want to do :lol:

    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Me too, kinda, cos band size decreased as well (which I knew was imminent), so I actually get to keep my awesome cup size. I also get to go lingerie shopping and spend an unholy amount of money on pretty things in the not too distant future (luckily, this is something I enjoy immensely). A check of all current bras shows they'll be okay for a bit on tightest band setting. I can't see my band size getting any smaller, and cup size shrinkage is my cut off for weight loss and leanness. Priorities.

    I'm one of those women who'd be ecstatic to have cup shrinkage....I didn't even realize that was possible-is it caused by the weight loss or the weight lifting? I'm assuming it's do to fat loss?
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    I'm one of those women who'd be ecstatic to have cup shrinkage....I didn't even realize that was possible-is it caused by the weight loss or the weight lifting? I'm assuming it's do to fat loss?

    My bra size, as in band size and cup size has changed four times since May. I have also had to adjust the straps as many times to keep them from falling off shoulders. I have to go down a cup size again, as the across the chest measurement is smaller and my band size is the same as last time I measured. There is spare room in them cups now, ha! The closer the band and over chest measurements are, the smaller the difference between the two, hence smaller cup size.

    Fat loss from back and chest change the measurements.

    Sorry for derailing...but non scale victories yeah?!
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    I'm supposedly on a diet break and activity break but yesterday was an epic fail for eating at maintenance. I had a migraine that I managed to medicate in enough time with a rescue med. I cut off the head pain at the pass, but dealt with all day lingering nausea. I have medication to deal with that as well, but it wasn't doing much good. I ate what I could and came in at a 400 calorie deficit.

    Thursday/Friday is when I usually see the scale drop, and today was no exception. Down a pound from last weeks low that I've been bouncing around from.

    I've given up on using trending apps because I confuse all of them. I'm better at spotting my own trends.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    Immune system working properly does take more energy, doubt it's broken needing repair though - just attempting to do it's job - sometimes it loses.
    Sometimes because of factors we caused - lack of sleep, food, stress, ect.

    Body under stress of sickness is always nice to give it a break from stresses you have control over.
    Diet being one.

    All night gaming sessions should probably be out too. ;-)


    Ah, but the all night gaming sessions could be considered part of my recovery from the stress! Lol



    Nony_Mouse wrote: »

    In one of the many Lyle podcasts, he mentions that immunity is one of the things that falls when you're at a deficit (ie you really do get sick more often on a diet), so yes, a diet break should help :)

    Thank you! I had figured that made a lot of sense! Of course right now, with a fever and a throat that feel like it's been shredded with a razor, eating isn't high on my list of things I want to do :lol:

    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Me too, kinda, cos band size decreased as well (which I knew was imminent), so I actually get to keep my awesome cup size. I also get to go lingerie shopping and spend an unholy amount of money on pretty things in the not too distant future (luckily, this is something I enjoy immensely). A check of all current bras shows they'll be okay for a bit on tightest band setting. I can't see my band size getting any smaller, and cup size shrinkage is my cut off for weight loss and leanness. Priorities.

    I'm one of those women who'd be ecstatic to have cup shrinkage....I didn't even realize that was possible-is it caused by the weight loss or the weight lifting? I'm assuming it's do to fat loss?

    My cup size has remained the same proportionally. Though of course they are technically smaller. Down a back, up a up, down a cup, down a back, up a cup, down a cup. Is generally how it goes for me. At the moment I'm a 34E (!) which I think is 34DDD in the US (we go straight to E from DD). But it looks like I'm going to have to go down a back soon, which will mean up a cup if I don't lose size from boobs. Which is blowing my mind. 34F. Thank goodness I can get these sized bras pretty cheaply. I'd like to lose a couple of cup sizes which I'm hoping will happen once there's nothing left to lose from underbust! Though I'll take losing from my thighs before boobs if it's a toss up.

    So, I am having scale woes but doing my best to ignore it. I posted a picture on my feed yesterday of epic bloat on Monday to it mostly whooshing off yesterday. It's reduced a bit again today. The really curious thing is that the scale has held steady for those three days despite the bloat and return to normal. The scale has stayed the same for a few weeks actually, hence my woes but this isn't unusual for me. Plus I'm still playing with new numbers from new device. I'm waiting for this pill cycle to run its course before making any decisions on if I need to reduce intake a bit to compensate for inflated numbers.

    Which leads me to the next update. I have been trying the weekend refeed method but I've just been too hungry this week. And it's only Wednesday. I'll see how it pans out the rest of the week but I ended up eating at maintenance yesterday which I actually had the calories for so no biggie. If I do have to reduce my intake then refeeds will just become too hard to compensate for during the week so I'll go back to the old school method.

    It has had the nice effect though of getting me back to consistency with my overall deficit, which could be because it's smaller than I'm aiming for or just that I'm properly back into the swing of things. Time will tell.

    I'll be taking a diet break over Christmas, as I do every year. Because hot buttered rum and goose fat roast potatoes. If I'm where I would like to be by then I'll switch to a small deficit/recomp in the new year.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
    I lost all my boobs when I lost weight. Even when I regained weight they never went back to their "original" size. I literally have sad sacks. My back/band size went down, and back up due to growing some more back.
    I have decent pecs though - bench/chest is one of my favourite things to train at the moment!
  • SpanishFusion
    SpanishFusion Posts: 261 Member
    I'm worried about that. I've been a 36 nearly C most of my life. When I gained this last 50#, I went up to a 40DD. From what I've read there is not alot you can really do about saggy boobs. When I was in high school, my Spanish teacher told us girls, that when she lost all weight, she had to roll her boobs up to put them in her bra. I hope that doesn't happen to me when I loose those 50+".
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    It's not so much roll as hoist and smoosh. Then again, I guess that depends on how much of your boobage was actual breast tissue vs. fat. I never had massive amounts of trunk fat, but I had big boobs and there's still a decent amount of breast tissue even though I lost quite a bit of fat and deflated my already sagging boobs (breastfed two kids). These are UK sizes since I wear UK bras. I went from a 36K to a 30FF.

    Since I had put on a few pounds from my lowest, the FF cup is a little tight. I hope it empties out as I take those pounds back off. I have always had a tendency to keep any weight I've gained in that area which is how I ended up a K cup. I never lost cup size post pregnancy or breastfeeding, I just had gravity take over.
  • alteredsteve175
    alteredsteve175 Posts: 2,726 Member
    edited November 2017
    I'm new to this concept of diet breaks. I'm going to order McDonald's book package. Looks like tons of good science based information.

    5' 10" 63 years young male. Started a serious weight loss program on March 6th, 2017. Starting weight 249.5 lbs. Doing low carb (currently aiming for 10% on average). 1500 calories per day. Weighed in at 205.5 this morning. Goal weight 175 or thereabouts.

    Have been considering a break when I reached 50 lbs. loss. This thread is leading me to think that it might be better to take periodic breaks based on a calendar schedule, rather than a weight loss target.

    Thoughts? Advice? Thank you in advance.
  • ZoneFive
    ZoneFive Posts: 570 Member
    edited November 2017
    alteredstates175 wrote: »
    I'm new to this concept of diet breaks. I'm going to order McDonald's book package. Looks like tons of good science based information.

    5' 10" 63 years young male. Started a serious weight loss program on March 6th, 2017. Starting weight 249.5 lbs. Doing low carb (currently aiming for 10% on average). 1500 calories per day. Weighed in at 205.5 this morning. Goal weight 175 or thereabouts.

    Have been considering a break when I reached 50 lbs. loss. This thread is leading me to think that it might be better to take periodic breaks based on a calendar schedule, rather than a weight loss target.

    Thoughts? Advice? Thank you in advance.

    You are very much in the right place. This thread has all the advice you're likely to want, and everyone who's commented is pretty much pro-diet-break or refeed. Watch/listen to the podcast, read the whole thread (yes, it meanders, don't worry), and welcome!

  • ZoneFive
    ZoneFive Posts: 570 Member
    Hoist and smoosh. Yeah, I know a little about that. But "hoist and smoosh" just makes me giggle. :D
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    alteredstates175 wrote: »
    I'm new to this concept of diet breaks. I'm going to order McDonald's book package. Looks like tons of good science based information.

    5' 10" 63 years young male. Started a serious weight loss program on March 6th, 2017. Starting weight 249.5 lbs. Doing low carb (currently aiming for 10% on average). 1500 calories per day. Weighed in at 205.5 this morning. Goal weight 175 or thereabouts.

    Have been considering a break when I reached 50 lbs. loss. This thread is leading me to think that it might be better to take periodic breaks based on a calendar schedule, rather than a weight loss target.

    Thoughts? Advice? Thank you in advance.

    Your rate of loss up until now has been pretty good but at this point I'd lower it to 1lb per week, anything more is likely too aggressive and the older we get the more important it is to preserve lean mass. Losing slower is one way to reduce that, strength training even better so if you're not doing some by now you should start.

    I think any point soon would be a great time for a diet break but can see why you want to wait until you hit the golden 50.
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    edited November 2017
    psuLemon wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    So glad to hear everyone's refeed/diet break has been working.

    Just a personal update to serve as a warning: I inadvertently went into an average surplus on the weekend due to celebratory occasions (caution: don't do this consistently lol), and going back to whatever normal schedule of training/diet I carry has dropped 4/7lbs of fluctuation spike.

    Silver lining: the practice of undulating periods of highs and lows is still a way of keeping maintenance and/or having a net deficit/surplus, depending on goals. Of course, it's still very prudent not to make either undulating period too high or too low simply because it's extremely easy to trigger issues if you have them already and are recovering.

    The overarching point, I think I'm trying to make is that regardless of the situation, we still have control, but that control shouldn't be so restrictive that you break, and freedom shouldn't be so uninhibited that you end up doing more harm than good. This is where "flexibility" and "moderation" lie: controlled freedom and practiced within reason.

    ( ಠ ͜ʖರೃ)

    Ironically, your silver lining is pretty much lean gains.

    Indeed, it is.. I subscribe to Martin's style. Good catch :smiley:
    alteredstates175 wrote: »
    I'm new to this concept of diet breaks. I'm going to order McDonald's book package. Looks like tons of good science based information.

    5' 10" 63 years young male. Started a serious weight loss program on March 6th, 2017. Starting weight 249.5 lbs. Doing low carb (currently aiming for 10% on average). 1500 calories per day. Weighed in at 205.5 this morning. Goal weight 175 or thereabouts.

    Have been considering a break when I reached 50 lbs. loss. This thread is leading me to think that it might be better to take periodic breaks based on a calendar schedule, rather than a weight loss target.

    Thoughts? Advice? Thank you in advance.

    The absolutely simple concept of diet breaks is this: as you get leaner, more periods of maintenance eating (at your new lower weight) will smooth along the fat loss process, as well as train you to eat at a normal caloric level once dieting stops. Calendar schedules are referred to, but it almost becomes intuitive based on your response to mood, hunger, overall general outlook cues. The ultimate goal is to keep your new healthier (and relatively by extension, leaner) body for the rest of your life without risk of fat regain.

    Caveat: being low carb/keto will actually put maintenance at a lower calorie intake if you choose to adhere to that macro manipulation long-term, save for the fact that coming from a larger origin of body fat % also plays a role in what dictates lower weight maintenance calories. Protein intake is also much more important to nutrition with low carb/keto levels, and the older you are, the more protein you will need.

    If you developed insulin resistance and/or metabolic syndrome from being previously overweight, losing excess fat tends to improve insulin sensitivity anyway, so at leaner body weight, you should be able to process/manage carbs a bit better. Another reason to incorporate strength training, regardless of size, age, experience level, etc. You don't need to do powerlifting or bodybuilding, but perform resistance training with activities/weights that are challenging, yet doable. And slowly increase that challenge over time. You benefit by keeping muscles intact, strong, and insulin sensitive :)
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    edited November 2017
    anubis609 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    So glad to hear everyone's refeed/diet break has been working.

    Just a personal update to serve as a warning: I inadvertently went into an average surplus on the weekend due to celebratory occasions (caution: don't do this consistently lol), and going back to whatever normal schedule of training/diet I carry has dropped 4/7lbs of fluctuation spike.

    Silver lining: the practice of undulating periods of highs and lows is still a way of keeping maintenance and/or having a net deficit/surplus, depending on goals. Of course, it's still very prudent not to make either undulating period too high or too low simply because it's extremely easy to trigger issues if you have them already and are recovering.

    The overarching point, I think I'm trying to make is that regardless of the situation, we still have control, but that control shouldn't be so restrictive that you break, and freedom shouldn't be so uninhibited that you end up doing more harm than good. This is where "flexibility" and "moderation" lie: controlled freedom and practiced within reason.

    ( ಠ ͜ʖರೃ)

    Ironically, your silver lining is pretty much lean gains.

    Indeed, it is.. I subscribe to Martin's style. Good catch :smiley:

    His concept of leans gains has always intrigued me, albeit, I haven't done a ton of research on it for a few years now; I might explore it when I get leaner. What is interesting, and made me think about it, Lyle actually published some data recently on bulking with a super low surplus. Overall, this aligned to Martin's philosophy (surplus on lifting days, deficit on non lifting days).

    ETA: Found it: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
  • alteredsteve175
    alteredsteve175 Posts: 2,726 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Your rate of loss up until now has been pretty good but at this point I'd lower it to 1lb per week, anything more is likely too aggressive and the older we get the more important it is to preserve lean mass. Losing slower is one way to reduce that, strength training even better so if you're not doing some by now you should start.

    I think any point soon would be a great time for a diet break but can see why you want to wait until you hit the golden 50.

    I have been doing some strength training along with a couple of boot camp sessions and some walking and hiking every week. Libra shows my weight loss at .5 lbs. per week, so it doesn't seem like an overly fast loss rate.

    Thank you.

    '
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Since we're talking boob history (I'm sure the guys don't mind)....

    HOw did we end up here, lol
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    I'm sorry for continuing on this topic, but is there any way to gain cup size through body recomp? If I ever needed an incentive to start (restart) a weight lifting program, this would be it!
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    I'm sorry for continuing on this topic, but is there any way to gain cup size through body recomp? If I ever needed an incentive to start (restart) a weight lifting program, this would be it!

    Hmmm, good question! Maybe with a bulk, then slooooooow fat loss (while getting plenty of dietary fat) after? Experiment and let us know!
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Since we're talking boob history (I'm sure the guys don't mind)....

    HOw did we end up here, lol

    Because we meander? Also, body recomposition stuff. Totally legit :p

    (also, I may be just a little proud of my awesome rack...)

    Pics or it didn't happen...











    ...... Oh wait, this isn't MFP circa 2014

    We're not allowed to post undie pics ;) Vintage and GottaBurnEmAll can verify.
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    I'm sorry for continuing on this topic, but is there any way to gain cup size through body recomp? If I ever needed an incentive to start (restart) a weight lifting program, this would be it!

    Hmmm, good question! Maybe with a bulk, then slooooooow fat loss (while getting plenty of dietary fat) after? Experiment and let us know!

    Hmm, good idea and will explore it further. I shrank after pregnancy/breastfeeding and never regained original size (which wasn't big to begin with anyway!)... so sad.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Since we're talking boob history (I'm sure the guys don't mind)....

    HOw did we end up here, lol

    Because we meander? Also, body recomposition stuff. Totally legit :p

    (also, I may be just a little proud of my awesome rack...)

    Pics or it didn't happen...











    ...... Oh wait, this isn't MFP circa 2014

    We're not allowed to post undie pics ;) Vintage and GottaBurnEmAll can verify.

    Nony's HAWT. And has great taste in lingerie.
  • collectingblues
    collectingblues Posts: 2,541 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    I'm sorry for continuing on this topic, but is there any way to gain cup size through body recomp? If I ever needed an incentive to start (restart) a weight lifting program, this would be it!

    I'd say yes, but it may be the correlation from changes in band size? I've gone from a 38D/40C/36D over the years, now to a 34DD. (Joining me in wincing at that one...) So technically the cup size has gone up, but the band size has gone down.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    collectingblues wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    I'm sorry for continuing on this topic, but is there any way to gain cup size through body recomp? If I ever needed an incentive to start (restart) a weight lifting program, this would be it!

    I'd say yes, but it may be the correlation from changes in band size? I've gone from a 38D/40C/36D over the years, now to a 34DD. (Joining me in wincing at that one...) So technically the cup size has gone up, but the band size has gone down.

    But DD is the best cup size!!

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