Of refeeds and diet breaks
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »*On the ovulation bloat thing, something I picked up from one of the podcast interviews with Lyle on women and weight loss, apparently we are more sensitive to sodium around ovulation, so will retain more water even with the same sodium level as we always eat. I am totally going to test this next month, not because of the weight effect, but because that bloat is fricking uncomfortable, and if I can have my jeans only not fit comfortably at PMS instead of both PMS and ovulation, then I'm all for it.
THAT is very interesting and explains what I've been seeing lately! I knew I'd always see a bit of a gain during TOM, but lately - as in the last 2 months or so - I've noticed that I"ll lose decently after TOM, but the 2nd week after, I'd either be back up a lb or so, or at least steady, even though I stayed at a deficit. then the following week, I'd be down a ton, only to be back up because TOM has swung back around again.
The yo-yoing has been driving me crazy and leaving me wondering if it was all because I wasn't being strict enough. I'm going down in weight, but its become a rachetted sort of thing lately instead of the smooth loss I experienced in the beginning.
I've been at this non-stop for almost 10 months, but I started with at least 220 lbs to lose. I'm 4 lbs shy of having lost 100 lbs. I admit I haven't added an exercise component yet, either cardio or weights, mostly because I dislike traditional exercise and the gym environment, and also because all my free time is caught up in trying to get my home remodeled so I can move in before the snow flies. Of course, all that work involves heavy lifting of plywood and 2x4s, climbing ladders, etc, so I like to think I'm getting some sort of workout.
I'm trying to read through this entire thread because the idea of a diet break is intriguing (and now would be a good time for me - it's coming up on the holidays, which are a problem, anyway and tend to be high carb in my family). However, there's currently 29 pages, and I'm only at page 7, so I'll keep plugging through and see if my questions are answered lol3 -
And here's the other big thing to remember regarding the water weight gain from increased stored glycogen, and actually more sodium reasons.
The body has to manage that water, attach, detach, osmosis, ect. Uses energy.
It is counted as increased LBM, and while it's not a calorie burner like a metabolically active organ - it does burn more. Appears more than resting muscle does. For at least your Z's when not using your muscles, so 1/4-1/3 of your day, if doing well.
So metabolism goes up for that increase.
But cortisol induced water weight from what I've found does not have the same effect of increasing metabolism, the water is just attached and held - I'm sure takes some energy but apparently not near the level of the other more normal reasons for fluctuations.
Then again - perhaps stress held water is pretty normal now....
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collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?0 -
Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.0
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newheavensearth wrote: »Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.
You certainly can and should. It may not be 400 calories though. HR isn't a great predictor of calorie burn.2 -
newheavensearth wrote: »Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.
Are you meaning you can't find it in the exercise database? For some reason, it's in with cardio, and of course you should use them towards your calorie intake
. I just let my Fitbit do all the heavy lifting for me. Then I eat what it tells me to. 2 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
2lbs is well within normal water weight fluctuations...
Trust the process. You really need to do the full diet break to get the full effect. If it helps, I went up about 2lb the first week of mine too, then it dropped a little second week. By three days after break (on a tiny deficit), I was at a new low.
And if certain foods don't agree with your body, it's fine not to eat them. Do what works for you And hey, you've found out some good and useful stuff for going forward! 5 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.
I don't recall if you've divulged your current stats or calories/macros but some things I'm picking up on are that you may be freaking the hell out which is causing a buildup of stress, whether you outwardly express it or not, it's noted in your personal query of what it might be.
I don't remember if it was in this podcast specifically, but there's one where Lyle did mention that a 20lb stress-induced fluid retention gain was seen in one person. It's not impossible that it occurs, however, the more you want to push against the grain of thought to actually relax, the harder your body fights back.
When you mention being in a deficit and implementing refeeds as of this thread, what were you coming from calorie wise and food quality wise comparied to the refeed calories and food quality? I ask because it's quite easy to misinterpret a structured refeed/diet break as a "cheat" as it's been mentioned by others who may have thought the same. Simply put, the easiest way to go from a deficit to maintenance is to eat more of the current foods you already eat, either more often or in larger quantities. In no way, shape, or form was it meant to come across as "solely eat the foods you've been restricting/avoiding."
As a reminder, I'm generalizing this response to everyone on the thread, not just you specifically. In general, scale weight gain is a trend marker to see what might be going on with other things as well, under the assumption that every single measurement of intake was tracked meticulously. Meaning, have you had a chance to possibly see a physician regarding thyroid/hormone panels, vitamin deficiencies? Do you have any confounding metabolic disorders that could exacerbate rapid weight gain (PCOS/Hashimoto's/T2D/insulin resistance)? Do you have any lifestyle confounders that may be accounted for (smoking, drinking, other drugs - prescription or otherwise, birth control, etc)?
And finally, if the concept of dieting and weight in itself is a monument of stressful thought, then perhaps a complete break from tracking might be needed. It plays a large hand in "intuitive eating" but it still utilizes the basic concept of focusing on protein and whole food sources as a priority because nutrient density contributes largely to satiety and overall health.10 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.
So stress induced water weight gain can go upwards of 20 lbs.
You got other stress in your life, or in your body?
Meaning, you dealing with a disease (RA, FM, Lupus, similar) or such - that is a stress against the body?
Genetically, you could have a lower stress line where the negatives start happening, or you got a lot of stresses adding up.
Diet is a stress to some degree.
Food sensitivities could be also, not even to point of noticing them as body deals with them, but a stress for it to do so. It's why some people have no issues with some foods until they go into a diet, perhaps now a higher % of their foods, or the fact diet stress and that stress high enough added with others - issue.
So anyway - just some reasons why weight can keep going up.
Which might mean - as scary as it sounds - when you thought you were in maintenance, you were still in deficit to potential maintenance, not just as steep, but still stressful enough to the body.
I say potential TDEE, compared to what could have been the current suppressed TDEE.
In 2 studies - the way they got out of it was eating at that suppressed TDEE for awhile, and their BMR and TDEE increased.
What % of deficit from TDEE, or number, do you think your diet is at?1 -
newheavensearth wrote: »Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.
So that is closer to cardio, which means the fluctuating HR isn't as big a factor, and with so small rests it's not likely anaerobic - so HR in that case might be off a small % inflated.
By how many minutes per week are those workouts?
Compared to other workouts being done?
Compared to general daily activity?
If a lot of workouts that way and generally very sedentary lifestyle - it could be a big deal in the scheme of things.
But if 3 x 20 min and high activity daily activity - no big deal.2 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.
I don't recall if you've divulged your current stats or calories/macros but some things I'm picking up on are that you may be freaking the hell out which is causing a buildup of stress, whether you outwardly express it or not, it's noted in your personal query of what it might be.
I don't remember if it was in this podcast specifically, but there's one where Lyle did mention that a 20lb stress-induced fluid retention gain was seen in one person. It's not impossible that it occurs, however, the more you want to push against the grain of thought to actually relax, the harder your body fights back.
When you mention being in a deficit and implementing refeeds as of this thread, what were you coming from calorie wise and food quality wise comparied to the refeed calories and food quality? I ask because it's quite easy to misinterpret a structured refeed/diet break as a "cheat" as it's been mentioned by others who may have thought the same. Simply put, the easiest way to go from a deficit to maintenance is to eat more of the current foods you already eat, either more often or in larger quantities. In no way, shape, or form was it meant to come across as "solely eat the foods you've been restricting/avoiding."
As a reminder, I'm generalizing this response to everyone on the thread, not just you specifically. In general, scale weight gain is a trend marker to see what might be going on with other things as well, under the assumption that every single measurement of intake was tracked meticulously. Meaning, have you had a chance to possibly see a physician regarding thyroid/hormone panels, vitamin deficiencies? Do you have any confounding metabolic disorders that could exacerbate rapid weight gain (PCOS/Hashimoto's/T2D/insulin resistance)? Do you have any lifestyle confounders that may be accounted for (smoking, drinking, other drugs - prescription or otherwise, birth control, etc)?
And finally, if the concept of dieting and weight in itself is a monument of stressful thought, then perhaps a complete break from tracking might be needed. It plays a large hand in "intuitive eating" but it still utilizes the basic concept of focusing on protein and whole food sources as a priority because nutrient density contributes largely to satiety and overall health.
Freaking the hell out is definitely an accurate depiction.
This morning, I was at 130 lb, and I'm 5'4". I have not weighed 130 in more than a year, hence the freaking out-crying-at-work-all-day thing.
Pre the half marathon in May where things started to get bad, I was sub-120, and losing at a predictable rate. Until August, I was between 120 and 123, usually closer to 121/122. I started increasing my fluids in August because I'd heard that being underhydrated could lead to gains. All that did was take me from 123 up to 125 -- and my dietitian told me it would come off, but here we are, up another five pounds. Generally I trust this dietitian -- she's an RD + MPH, and is one of the top sports nutrition people in the US. (I managed to get in with her because she happens to be local, and she's a good friend/colleague of my therapist.)
The few days when I've been eating closer to maintenance, it was largely a function of "I'm out for an event, and I'm not going to panic about food" or "OK, my colleagues brought in donuts, and I had one, because it's not going to kill me." The general idea of a "cheat" meal is foreign to me. Like, I get why other people do it, but that's not how I function. In general, I'd say that about 90 percent of what I eat is completely homemade -- I generally do not use canned foods, frozen foods, or any meat products that are beyond minimally processed. (I'm that freak who when she wants beans and rice for dinner, is rehydrating the beans from scratch.)
I do have a sweet tooth, but try to limit those things when possible (without being obsessive) because I'm also a type 1 diabetic. I'm insulin sensitive, though, and have been type 1 for 35 years now -- I'm on about half a unit per kilo, and normal adult sensitivity for T1D is a unit per kilo. I'm hypothyroid, and my TSH is actually usually trending toward hyperthyroid -- it's well-medicated, and has been fairly stable. I've been hypothyroid for 28 years. (Yay for autoimmunity.)
My last set of labs was completely normal -- but I am seeing my GP (so not my endo) on Thursday, because I sent him a "OK, this needs to be gone *now*" schedule request this morning.
I drink in moderation, but only if the calories allow -- so maybe a glass of wine once a week or so, and maybe a cocktail or beer once a week. So twice a week, at most, and precisely measured. (And, because of the type 1, no fruity mixers -- it's usually vodka + diet tonic.) Not on birth control, and no medications beyond my synthroid and insulin.
At this point, I don't doubt that not tracking would be beneficial. But I a) don't trust myself to just eat, and b) I still need to count carbs in order to do insulin dosing. So regardless (and this is what confounds the ED-recovery piece), I'm looking at numbers.
I don't doubt that it's cortisol-related. But how do I get that actually GONE?
2 -
@collectingblues, you did say your RMR when tested was higher than expected IIRC. Heybales might be onto something. Is it possible that your maintenance is higher than you think it is because of this?1
-
Yes -- it's about 20 percent higher than expected. So my maintenance days have been still a little short of that, but not by much.1
-
newheavensearth wrote: »Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.
So that is closer to cardio, which means the fluctuating HR isn't as big a factor, and with so small rests it's not likely anaerobic - so HR in that case might be off a small % inflated.
By how many minutes per week are those workouts?
Compared to other workouts being done?
Compared to general daily activity?
If a lot of workouts that way and generally very sedentary lifestyle - it could be a big deal in the scheme of things.
But if 3 x 20 min and high activity daily activity - no big deal.
45 to 60 minutes minutes, 3 or 4 times per week on the weights.
The rest of the week is my stress relief cardio appx 1 hr at night 5x a week, usually elliptical, boxing class or incline walk on treadmill
Interval cardio 45 minutes 3x a week alternating with the weights- Spinning or jogging in am
Always walking because I have no car and mass transit is unreliable. I work a desk job.0 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.
So stress induced water weight gain can go upwards of 20 lbs.
You got other stress in your life, or in your body?
Meaning, you dealing with a disease (RA, FM, Lupus, similar) or such - that is a stress against the body?
Genetically, you could have a lower stress line where the negatives start happening, or you got a lot of stresses adding up.
Diet is a stress to some degree.
Food sensitivities could be also, not even to point of noticing them as body deals with them, but a stress for it to do so. It's why some people have no issues with some foods until they go into a diet, perhaps now a higher % of their foods, or the fact diet stress and that stress high enough added with others - issue.
So anyway - just some reasons why weight can keep going up.
Which might mean - as scary as it sounds - when you thought you were in maintenance, you were still in deficit to potential maintenance, not just as steep, but still stressful enough to the body.
I say potential TDEE, compared to what could have been the current suppressed TDEE.
In 2 studies - the way they got out of it was eating at that suppressed TDEE for awhile, and their BMR and TDEE increased.
What % of deficit from TDEE, or number, do you think your diet is at?
Job situation is good (I actually legitimately love my job -- ideal work/life balance, and fantastic boss and team). I'm type 1, which doesn't feel stressful, but I guess it could be. Currently dealing with a stress fracture in my foot, and have been in an aircast for four weeks now, but my ortho has given me clearance to swim, do barre, and spin if it doesn't hurt -- it's been improving over the past week. No known food sensitivities/allergies.
If I use last week's average calories, it's an 18 percent deficit. The previous week, a 13 percent deficit. 16 percent the previous week -- which was the first week I'd tried increasing. Five weeks ago, it was 34 percent, which was better than the 37 percent the week before that.
RMR was lab-calculated at 1436. When possible (AKA, when my foot doesn't hurt), I train daily to various degrees, so figure an activity factor of 1.62.
And OH! @heybales, I just realized that *you're* the one who made the Google sheet/Excel doc that I used to find that activity factor. So that's how I know what it is...2 -
newheavensearth wrote: »newheavensearth wrote: »Not to derail things, but is there a sticky that details why I can't use calories from weight training toward my daily intake? I don't do traditional weight training with rests between sets. I do circuit, giant set, or PHA, and easily come up with a 400 calorie burn in my cardio or peak HR zone. Not saying it should be cardio, just wondering.
So that is closer to cardio, which means the fluctuating HR isn't as big a factor, and with so small rests it's not likely anaerobic - so HR in that case might be off a small % inflated.
By how many minutes per week are those workouts?
Compared to other workouts being done?
Compared to general daily activity?
If a lot of workouts that way and generally very sedentary lifestyle - it could be a big deal in the scheme of things.
But if 3 x 20 min and high activity daily activity - no big deal.
45 to 60 minutes minutes, 3 or 4 times per week on the weights.
The rest of the week is my stress relief cardio appx 1 hr at night 5x a week, usually elliptical, boxing class or incline walk on treadmill
Interval cardio 45 minutes 3x a week alternating with the weights- Spinning or jogging in am
Always walking because I have no car and mass transit is unreliable. I work a desk job.
Just use the HRM based estimate then - in the scheme of things - the inaccuracy allowed in your food nutrition labels is probably greater.0 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Week 1 DIET BREAK: Data for those who want to see. (Deficit calorie goal was 1200, maintenance goal is 1750) 5'0"
Day 1: Weight in am: 191.6 Calories 1615, 7 cups water, Carbs 140
Day 2: 193, cal 1805, 8 cups water, carbs 200
Day 3: 194, cal 1662, 7 c water, carbs 159
Day 4: 193.6, cal 1730, 6 c water, carbs 131
Day 5: 193.4, cal 1640, 6 c water, carbs 105
Day 6: no scale, cal 1676, 5 c water, carbs 162
Day 7: 195.2, cal 1484, 9 c water, carbs 89
This morning: 193.6
Takeaways:
1) I let myself eat a few foods that I have not allowed myself during deficit. I don't think I will do this again, because my bathroom habits didn't 'move' the way I like, and even gave me a tummy ache.
2) I am going back to eliminating white sugar and white flour from my diet. I know I know, it doesn't matter what you eat, but it was working for me.
3) I relaxed back into my old ways of eating dinner at 8 pm. I know I know, it doesn't matter when, but it was working for me to eat by 6.
4) I also found that I didn't eat enough calories during the day and then had 1,000 calories to eat for dinner/evening snack. This doesn't work for me. I need to eat more calories earlier. I know, I know..., but...you know.
I'm not happy about gaining 2# in a week. I didn't eat 7,000 calories over my goal. Even from my deficit goal, I should have only gained 1#. A part of me wants to trust the process. A part of me wants to go back to deficit.
Need guidance as to why I should do this for another week, please.
If those people had persisted in eating their true maintenance calories, the weight fluctuation from the fluid gain would have smoothed out and they would go back to their goal weight or there abouts.
This is what's going on with you now. You have more water weight in your system. Relax and trust the process. That water weight will leave.
This is the part that's killing me right now. I am now up 11 pounds since May -- and seven since August. I know there is absolutely no way in heck that it is fat -- but it's now water weight all over, and even my mother made a comment on Wednesday about how my face looked less gaunt.
How long is it supposed to take for it to all settle out? Because I feel like I keep hearing/reading "Ride it out," but it's unending, and I'm not seeing any indications of it actually coming back *down*.
Have you eaten maintenance the whole time or do you keep going back and forth? I know you have issues with the numbers.
I keep going back and forth. With this level of gain, I don't trust that it's not going to keep going up and up.
So besides the scale weight which as a single stat isn't totally useful in determining much - what other measurements have gone up?
And not bloating because of a bigger meal causing some surprises.
And just so your mental can help out your emotional reasoning - what reason would you think that eating at maintenance would keep it going up and up?
Well, right now my calves (half an inch), hips (an inch), waist (almost two inches), and bust (an inch). They were all smaller last month, which tells me there's some generalized water distribution (likely/hopefully).
I don't *know* why it keeps going up and up. But I've put on 11 pounds since May with immaculate logging, which tells me that something is not going as expected.
I don't feel that 11 pounds of water weight is a normal fluctuation. Five? Maybe. I'd be uncomfortable with that, but I'd accept it a little more. 11? That's ludicrous. And by definition of the word, you'd also think that I'd see more sustained drops with such a water weight "fluctuation". Sure, I periodically see it go down a few pounds, but then it comes right back.
Right now, I just feel like a fat person trying to rationalize a gain.
So stress induced water weight gain can go upwards of 20 lbs.
You got other stress in your life, or in your body?
Meaning, you dealing with a disease (RA, FM, Lupus, similar) or such - that is a stress against the body?
Genetically, you could have a lower stress line where the negatives start happening, or you got a lot of stresses adding up.
Diet is a stress to some degree.
Food sensitivities could be also, not even to point of noticing them as body deals with them, but a stress for it to do so. It's why some people have no issues with some foods until they go into a diet, perhaps now a higher % of their foods, or the fact diet stress and that stress high enough added with others - issue.
So anyway - just some reasons why weight can keep going up.
Which might mean - as scary as it sounds - when you thought you were in maintenance, you were still in deficit to potential maintenance, not just as steep, but still stressful enough to the body.
I say potential TDEE, compared to what could have been the current suppressed TDEE.
In 2 studies - the way they got out of it was eating at that suppressed TDEE for awhile, and their BMR and TDEE increased.
What % of deficit from TDEE, or number, do you think your diet is at?
Job situation is good (I actually legitimately love my job -- ideal work/life balance, and fantastic boss and team). I'm type 1, which doesn't feel stressful, but I guess it could be. Currently dealing with a stress fracture in my foot, and have been in an aircast for four weeks now, but my ortho has given me clearance to swim, do barre, and spin if it doesn't hurt -- it's been improving over the past week. No known food sensitivities/allergies.
If I use last week's average calories, it's an 18 percent deficit. The previous week, a 13 percent deficit. 16 percent the previous week -- which was the first week I'd tried increasing. Five weeks ago, it was 34 percent, which was better than the 37 percent the week before that.
RMR was lab-calculated at 1436. When possible (AKA, when my foot doesn't hurt), I train daily to various degrees, so figure an activity factor of 1.62.
And OH! @heybales, I just realized that *you're* the one who made the Google sheet/Excel doc that I used to find that activity factor. So that's how I know what it is...
I'm sensing this direction.
http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/
Is that the Just TDEE spreadsheet, or the big one that allows logging measurements, and tested RMR, ect?0
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