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Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Oh, and another thing - after 5 days on a diet break, I'm sleeping again! I knew something was off with me because I've always been blessed in regards to sleep. My head hits the pillow and within 5 minutes I'm out. Not true though for the last several months. At bedtime, my mind just wouldn't turn off, and there's no particular issue in my life to explain that sort of restlessness. High cortisol would explain it though.

    I've gotten some great sleep the last two nights. I hope it's a sign that my hormones are balancing, and not just carb crash.

    Yep, that's hormones rebalancing :)

    I was meaning to ask how you are finding the extra carbs. From memory, you keep them low to help with cravings? Any problems there?
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Thanks for the added insights @heybales :)
  • Rickster1967Rickster1967 Member Posts: 485 Member Member Posts: 485 Member
    As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs

    but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?
  • Rickster1967Rickster1967 Member Posts: 485 Member Member Posts: 485 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs

    but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?

    Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.

    yeah, I mean still high DESPITE the fact it will have fallen during more than 12 weeks of non-stop deficit... indicating that it was extremely high at my heaviest

    not planning to do a re-ffed or diet break for a fair while, may eat maintenance for a week over Christmas / New Year
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs

    but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?

    Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.

    yeah, I mean still high DESPITE the fact it will have fallen during more than 12 weeks of non-stop deficit... indicating that it was extremely high at my heaviest

    not planning to do a re-ffed or diet break for a fair while, may eat maintenance for a week over Christmas / New Year

    That timing is probably okay for you, I wouldn't push it any longer, but do it for two weeks (did you read the article?).
  • mmapagsmmapags Member Posts: 8,953 Member Member Posts: 8,953 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs

    but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?

    Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.

    This^^
  • sardelsasardelsa Member, Premium Posts: 9,827 Member Member, Premium Posts: 9,827 Member
    Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
  • sardelsasardelsa Member, Premium Posts: 9,827 Member Member, Premium Posts: 9,827 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!

    You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.

    The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!

    Yes definitely, while I made it through, looking back I probably would have benefit from a good diet break weeks before reaching that breaking point. I kept thinking "but what's the point, I'm so close to the end...." (however, I underestimated how far I really was from the end) now I know better and see the benefit. Each bulk/cut I learn a little bit more, do things a little differently, become a little more successful.

    I think we can sometimes be our own worst critics. You could stop cutting right now and stay right where you are and you would still look fabulous and be in fabulous shape. I'm sure there are many of us that would be happy to be as lean as you are!

    But, yes, what you describe is what I called "the nose to the grindstone" mentality in an earlier post. It's counter productive but there are psychological factors to get over to be proactive and take the darn break!! I think with your experience of bulking in the past, you would have an easier time of it.

    Aww thanks! ;) Yea well I am finished cutting, now easing into my bulk, so I won't be this lean for long haha.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    @VintageFeline - Yes, ma'am! All too familiar with those two names. But thank you for the "look there" post. You don't know that I follow their youtube channels. I really like it when Eric Helms is interviewed by a couple of other channels and they have their little pow-wows. I like to talk....a lot.....but when those folks speak I shut up and listen.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    @mmapags - I really like the idea of a diet break. Or a gym break. In fact, I think that concept should be entitled "But, we were on a break!". For some reason, that phrase sounds really familiar to me (not that I ever watched Friends on TV....no, sir! Never). Most people have never heard of that concept....or believe that it is valid. Kinda like telling a person who is 5'3" @ 200lbs but is eating 700 Calories a day that "Girl, you need to eat a heck of a lot more food"......you get the "you are telling a fat person to eat more....and, a whole lot more at that?" response. But it is absolutely the right thing to do.

    And, I do not know, @sardelsa , if you saw the video from Lyle McDonald on this topic? Likely the one that @mmapags is referencing.
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