Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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JaydedMiss wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »JaydedMiss wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
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When you diet, even if the deficit is a reasonable amount, certain hormones are downregulated and they affect satiation and your energy levels. The purpose of a higher carb maintenance refeed is to get those hormone levels back to baseline so that you are compliant with your diet, your energy levels when you exercise are where they should be, and your diet just overall works better.
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Does that mean that even if you are on a small deficit but on a reasonable amount of carbs, a higher carb maintenance refeed is required to get the hormone levels back to baseline?
And is this true for both lean and not so lean people?
For example, I'm on 1800 cals atm (60% carbs), which is approx 300 cal deficit and BF is around 22% (DEXA scan, may be a bit lower now). Is it a good idea to go to say, 80-90% carbs at 2100 cals maintenance or stick with 60% carb at 2100 cals or something else?
The leaner you get, the more important things like diet breaks and refeeds become. Because your deficit is small, your metabolic adaptations aren't going to be as pronounced as they would be for someone at a higher deficit, but they are still happening. If you're happy with how you are trucking along, then you can probably just carry on as you are. If you're finding that you're starting to struggle, either in terms of weight loss slowing down, feeling hungrier, or having less energy, then a refeed or full diet break may be in order. I don't think you need to go to 80-90% carbs though, that would really be squeezing out protein, which should be kept the same.
You'll be getting more carbs just by virtue of eating more. My carb intake usually sits around 80-100g a day, just because protein and fat don't leave a lot of room for more, and when I do have the cals for more, I'm probably going to choose a protein shake with dark choc peanut butter over anything else! So for me, getting carbs up for the refeed was really important. It probably also depends on what sort of exercise you are doing and how much you are depleting your glycogen.
My take on all of this is that everyone should be doing periodic diet breaks (read the article on diet breaks, it's short and explains it all, why and how to). Refeeds are more for lean people getting leaner (or people like me who are playing with the last few pounds, like to mess around with this stuff, and don't really care if it takes a few extra weeks to get to goal).
What about people like me who eat 200-300g of carbs a day xD Iv been hungry non stop lately, Cant really up my carbs more thn i have. Means a carb refeed for me wouldnt help much i imagine lol. Iv never done one in 110 pounds loss because i have always eaten high carb even with big deficits so i didnt see a point
Can't remember if you're still losing or in maintenance now, but if you're still losing, diet break.
im half and half...working on slowing my loss down i dont want to get to small, If i dont lose anymore i wont mind
Struggling to get my mind in the mindset of eating more in general really doubt id be able to even eat near what i need to for a full maintenance. Im WAY to active i burn way to much. So im working on moving less and eating more at the same time. Im in a weird position lol.
If you're really struggling with hunger then drop your activity level enough that you can eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks. If you're doing the level of cardio that would make eating at maintenance difficult then your cortisol levels are also going to be through the roof. You need to find a balance, cos you can't stay at a deficit forever. Diet break is good practice for that.7 -
Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer
... sorry! 4 -
Why big deficits and lots of cardio are a dumb idea:
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/too-much-cardio-followup.html/
Diet break link, again: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
If you do a ton of cardio, easing off on that during a diet break should be part of it (I think covered in podcasts I've listened to, not in the article). Go for some walks, that's it. Kepp up with strength training.5 -
Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.
Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.9 -
Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.
For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.
And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.
When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.
Simples.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.
For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.
And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.
When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.
Simples.
Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.
For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.
And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.
When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.
Simples.
Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?
Potatoes and cottage cheese are my homies. I want your recipe.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.
For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.
And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.
When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.
Simples.
Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?
Potatoes and cottage cheese are my homies. I want your recipe.
Coming your way!!2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.
Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.
Excellent info here and in this whole post. A couple of thoughts, if you look at the hormonal physiology of dieting in general, the adaptations the are helpful are most helpful at the beginning of going into calorie deficit for a short time (a week or so as a guess) before that negative adaptations start gradually working against you. (thank you ancestors and the ability to survive famine!)
The same applies to a refeed/diet break. Doing it for a day will have minimal impact. 2 days are even better. The closer you get to goal weight or the longer you've been in deficit, the more important it is. Keeping the nose to the grindstone is the hard way. I can't encourage people enough to watch the video and read the links here. It is worth it.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.
Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.
Excellent info here and in this whole post. A couple of thoughts, if you look at the hormonal physiology of dieting in general, the adaptations the are helpful are most helpful at the beginning of going into calorie deficit for a short time (a week or so as a guess) before that negative adaptations start gradually working against you. (thank you ancestors and the ability to survive famine!)
The same applies to a refeed/diet break. Doing it for a day will have minimal impact. 2 days are even better. The closer you get to goal weight or the longer you've been in deficit, the more important it is. Keeping the nose to the grindstone is the hard way. I can't encourage people enough to watch the video and read the links here. It is worth it.
Yep, diet smarter!4 -
All I'd have to do is set my macros to the MFP default.
Kinda joking, but not..3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »All I'd have to do is set my macros to the MFP default.
Kinda joking, but not..
Yeah, that's pretty much what I did! Just changed my goal to maintenance, which resets your macros to default (which is a PIA when you don't want them that way). I may have dropped the fat and upped the protein by 5% each.3 -
While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
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CynthiasChoice wrote: »While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice
. For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...). 5 -
CynthiasChoice wrote: »While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
This is where, as much as it can be frustrating, my mental health impeding my ability to maintain a deficit had the nice side effect of letting me practice maintenance and so far it appears I can largely do it naturally. My natural rhythm of food intake keep me within my calories overall and I'm really chuffed about that!
It's also worth noting, as a few of us have alluded to and is talked about in the video/podcast, is that these adaptations are much more pronounced in women. The need for the body to maintain homeostasis is powerful when the survival of the species lies with us primarily. The benefits of refeeds/diet breaks cannot be overstated for women in particular.7 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice. For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...).
Same here. It does take a little adjusting Cynthia and i experienced some of what you are. Nony and I actually discussed this. I was in a groove in my deficit eating, then off kilter. You'll figure it out and get better as time goes on. It was the same when I began deficit eating. The results are worth it.5 -
Thanks for posting the video. I have been intrigued by carb refeeds so it was interesting to hear Lyle talk about it.
I bulked last fall/winter and wanted to do the same this fall but didn't get lean enough in time. So I am going to recomp for the year. I wanted to take a more natural approach this time around - instead of eating the same calories every day I was thinking of eating 100-150 days under maintenance and then have one day where I eat more. I am rethinking this strategy after watching the video. I am probably going to eat 300-400 calories under every 3 days or so to make room for a higher day. Does that make sense? Did I understand correctly? 4 -
Who is this Lyle McDonald dude? LOL! I am going to listen to this podcast. Guys, I really appreciate how those that know and have the practical application behind that "know" share things like this. It is why I stay and participate. I like to answer questions (I just like to write! LOL!) and I really like to learn. Thanks, y'all!9
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And, Paul Revelia and Laurin Conlin have some really good youtube channel content - on a lot of things, but also on Refeed (the topic). I follow both. No, I do not get any anything for mentioning those two. I am just sharing content that I think is really worth sharing.1
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CWShultz27105 wrote: »And, Paul Revelia and Laurin Conlin have some really good youtube channel content - on a lot of things, but also on Refeed (the topic). I follow both. No, I do not get any anything for mentioning those two. I am just sharing content that I think is really worth sharing.
Haha, I'm starting to worry that people will think I'm on Lyle's payroll!! But no, I'm just doing the same, sharing stuff that a) I think everyone should learn about and b) stuff that's helped me.
I've gotta say, I'm really chuffed at how well this thread has gone. When I posted it, I mentioned to some friends, probably @mmapags, that it would likely get three replies and be buried within half a day, cos that's what usually happens with these science-based information threads. I am ecstatic that people are reading and learning and thinking, and will to give this or the diet break a go instead of continuing to spin their wheels fighting metabolic adaptation
So thanks everyone!12 -
Oh, final update from my refeed:
a) Holy crap that's a lot of food when you're keeping fats low!
b) Weight is exactly the same as when I started Saturday morning. Where the hell is my glycogen weight?? I'd speculate that I got a whoosh from eating higher etc, but I'm only a week off a full diet break (in which I whooshed), and was at a 350 deficit last week. Will be interesting to see if the pattern holds.
c) I need to prep better. Next weekend I'll make the almighty Au Gratin earlier in the day so I can have some as an afternoon snackus and not be left with a mountain for dinner. Lunchtime baked potato also needs more ratatouille.
d) I am very much looking forward to my protein shake with dark choc peanut butter tonight 11 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »And, Paul Revelia and Laurin Conlin have some really good youtube channel content - on a lot of things, but also on Refeed (the topic). I follow both. No, I do not get any anything for mentioning those two. I am just sharing content that I think is really worth sharing.
Haha, I'm starting to worry that people will think I'm on Lyle's payroll!! But no, I'm just doing the same, sharing stuff that a) I think everyone should learn about and b) stuff that's helped me.
I've gotta say, I'm really chuffed at how well this thread has gone. When I posted it, I mentioned to some friends, probably @mmapags, that it would likely get three replies and be buried within half a day, cos that's what usually happens with these science-based information threads. I am ecstatic that people are reading and learning and thinking, and will to give this or the diet break a go instead of continuing to spin their wheels fighting metabolic adaptation
So thanks everyone!
You did@ But you were wrong!1 -
I have heard his name before (Lyle M) but never actually have seen him speak (well, "seen" him "speak" might sound funny....talking about youtube....so there ya go). He actually reminds me a lot of a former colleague of mine in his mannerisms and inflection. Anyway, I really enjoy listening to really smart, passionate people talk about their areas of passion.
@Nony_Mouse - Thank you. I am so glad that you were not only wrong, but "oh so wrong"! 1 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »@Nony_Mouse - Thank you. I am so glad that you were not only wrong, but "oh so wrong"!
Normally I hate being wrong (but not so stubborn I can't admit it and be open to learning), on this occasion I am more than happy to accept it!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
Thanks! I think I should be okay with the fat %. I've been on maintenance with the same macros so I can just lower or increase the carb portion sizes as required. I love me some oatsVintageFeline wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.
Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.
Thanks and good call. I watched the video... umm halfway lol (up until where he talked about ADF, BF and refeed structures, 5/2, 3/1 etc etc and where he said he doesn't know what will work beyond the 2 days).
I might experiment and see what's best as well!
1 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »I have heard his name before (Lyle M) but never actually have seen him speak (well, "seen" him "speak" might sound funny....talking about youtube....so there ya go). He actually reminds me a lot of a former colleague of mine in his mannerisms and inflection. Anyway, I really enjoy listening to really smart, passionate people talk about their areas of passion.
@Nony_Mouse - Thank you. I am so glad that you were not only wrong, but "oh so wrong"!
I don't know if you're already familiar but another couple of good names are Eric Helms and Alan Aragon.7 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice. For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...).
Thanks for the encouragement! The first few days I was just adding to my normal meals, as you suggested. Cutting fat and adding carbs is a challenge for me as well. Then it dawned on me that this should be somewhat fun, and I could actually have a bit of the foods I rarely eat anymore, like chow mien. Damn, but that was hard to log! No one in the world measures chow mien in grams??!! And how would I ever know how much oil the chef used in that? Maybe the chow mien wasn't my best idea because now my data is likely inaccurate. But it was fun
I lost a pound after two days of my diet break, and then gained a pound and a half after the chow mien. Maybe salt/water weight. I'm really interested to hear updates on your experience over the next few weeks.2 -
CynthiasChoice wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.
Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.
I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.
Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice. For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...).
Thanks for the encouragement! The first few days I was just adding to my normal meals, as you suggested. Cutting fat and adding carbs is a challenge for me as well. Then it dawned on me that this should be somewhat fun, and I could actually have a bit of the foods I rarely eat anymore, like chow mien. Damn, but that was hard to log! No one in the world measures chow mien in grams??!! And how would I ever know how much oil the chef used in that? Maybe the chow mien wasn't my best idea because now my data is likely inaccurate. But it was fun
I lost a pound after two days of my diet break, and then gained a pound and a half after the chow mien. Maybe salt/water weight. I'm really interested to hear updates on your experience over the next few weeks.
You don't need to cut fat with the full diet break, so just leave that as normal, or more if you like! I did read and understand why the lower fat is important on the shorter re-feed, but eczema fatigue is messing with my mind, so it's gone again![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
. And yes, definitely have stuff that you've had to limit cos it doesn't fit. As you yourself said, an important part of this is learning what maintenance looks like for you, and part of that is reincorporating those foods 1 -
Oh, and another thing - after 5 days on a diet break, I'm sleeping again! I knew something was off with me because I've always been blessed in regards to sleep. My head hits the pillow and within 5 minutes I'm out. Not true though for the last several months. At bedtime, my mind just wouldn't turn off, and there's no particular issue in my life to explain that sort of restlessness. High cortisol would explain it though.
I've gotten some great sleep the last two nights. I hope it's a sign that my hormones are balancing, and not just carb crash.15
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