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Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.

    Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.

    Excellent info here and in this whole post. A couple of thoughts, if you look at the hormonal physiology of dieting in general, the adaptations the are helpful are most helpful at the beginning of going into calorie deficit for a short time (a week or so as a guess) before that negative adaptations start gradually working against you. (thank you ancestors and the ability to survive famine!)

    The same applies to a refeed/diet break. Doing it for a day will have minimal impact. 2 days are even better. The closer you get to goal weight or the longer you've been in deficit, the more important it is. Keeping the nose to the grindstone is the hard way. I can't encourage people enough to watch the video and read the links here. It is worth it.

    Yep, diet smarter!
  • Christine_72Christine_72 Member Posts: 16,055 Member Member Posts: 16,055 Member
    All I'd have to do is set my macros to the MFP default.

    Kinda joking, but not..
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    All I'd have to do is set my macros to the MFP default.

    Kinda joking, but not..

    Yeah, that's pretty much what I did! Just changed my goal to maintenance, which resets your macros to default (which is a PIA when you don't want them that way). I may have dropped the fat and upped the protein by 5% each.
  • bioklutzbioklutz Member Posts: 1,365 Member Member Posts: 1,365 Member
    Thanks for posting the video. I have been intrigued by carb refeeds so it was interesting to hear Lyle talk about it.

    I bulked last fall/winter and wanted to do the same this fall but didn't get lean enough in time. So I am going to recomp for the year. I wanted to take a more natural approach this time around - instead of eating the same calories every day I was thinking of eating 100-150 days under maintenance and then have one day where I eat more. I am rethinking this strategy after watching the video. I am probably going to eat 300-400 calories under every 3 days or so to make room for a higher day. Does that make sense? Did I understand correctly? :blush:
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    And, Paul Revelia and Laurin Conlin have some really good youtube channel content - on a lot of things, but also on Refeed (the topic). I follow both. No, I do not get any anything for mentioning those two. I am just sharing content that I think is really worth sharing.
  • mmapagsmmapags Member Posts: 8,953 Member Member Posts: 8,953 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    And, Paul Revelia and Laurin Conlin have some really good youtube channel content - on a lot of things, but also on Refeed (the topic). I follow both. No, I do not get any anything for mentioning those two. I am just sharing content that I think is really worth sharing.

    Haha, I'm starting to worry that people will think I'm on Lyle's payroll!! But no, I'm just doing the same, sharing stuff that a) I think everyone should learn about and b) stuff that's helped me.

    I've gotta say, I'm really chuffed at how well this thread has gone. When I posted it, I mentioned to some friends, probably @mmapags, that it would likely get three replies and be buried within half a day, cos that's what usually happens with these science-based information threads. I am ecstatic that people are reading and learning and thinking, and will to give this or the diet break a go instead of continuing to spin their wheels fighting metabolic adaptation :)

    So thanks everyone!

    You [email protected] But you were wrong!
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    I have heard his name before (Lyle M) but never actually have seen him speak (well, "seen" him "speak" might sound funny....talking about youtube....so there ya go). He actually reminds me a lot of a former colleague of mine in his mannerisms and inflection. Anyway, I really enjoy listening to really smart, passionate people talk about their areas of passion.

    @Nony_Mouse - Thank you. I am so glad that you were not only wrong, but "oh so wrong"! :wink:
    edited October 2017
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    @Nony_Mouse - Thank you. I am so glad that you were not only wrong, but "oh so wrong"! :wink:

    Normally I hate being wrong (but not so stubborn I can't admit it and be open to learning), on this occasion I am more than happy to accept it!
  • maybynmaybyn Member Posts: 236 Member Member Posts: 236 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    I'll forgive you this time @maybyn ;)

    Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.

    Thanks! I think I should be okay with the fat %. I've been on maintenance with the same macros so I can just lower or increase the carb portion sizes as required. I love me some oats :)

    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.

    Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.

    Thanks and good call. I watched the video... umm halfway lol (up until where he talked about ADF, BF and refeed structures, 5/2, 3/1 etc etc and where he said he doesn't know what will work beyond the 2 days).

    I might experiment and see what's best as well!
  • CynthiasChoiceCynthiasChoice Member Posts: 1,141 Member Member Posts: 1,141 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.

    Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.

    I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.

    Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice :). For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...).

    Thanks for the encouragement! The first few days I was just adding to my normal meals, as you suggested. Cutting fat and adding carbs is a challenge for me as well. Then it dawned on me that this should be somewhat fun, and I could actually have a bit of the foods I rarely eat anymore, like chow mien. Damn, but that was hard to log! No one in the world measures chow mien in grams??!! And how would I ever know how much oil the chef used in that? Maybe the chow mien wasn't my best idea because now my data is likely inaccurate. But it was fun :)

    I lost a pound after two days of my diet break, and then gained a pound and a half after the chow mien. Maybe salt/water weight. I'm really interested to hear updates on your experience over the next few weeks.
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    While most people can lose weight on a diet, the maintenance effort afterwards poses a challenge that many people don't succeed with. It's not that the diet fails, it's that the loss is often not maintained.

    Towards the end of part 2, McDonald talks about this, and how the 2 week diet break helps you practice maintenance. This is something I recently mentioned in the Matador study thread. I suggested that one reason the intermittent diet group maintained weight loss better than the continuous diet group had something to do with them practicing maintenance several times along the way, and learning from that experience. I think that's key. Rebalancing hormones is one component, the psychological break from deprivation is another, but I think a very important third component is the benefit of practicing maintenance for short periods before you're expected to do it forever.

    I'm on my 6th day of a diet break, and I have to say I find it more stressful than calorie restriction. That probably defeats the purpose of trying to lower cortisol! I was in a rhythm with my diet and often would just jot down what I ate through the day and then log it all after my last meal. I was nearly always within 50 calories of my target just by following a variety of habits and eating intuitively. Now in the diet break there are new rules, so it takes more effort to try to hit my macros. Not exactly a psychological break for me yet. Maybe I'll get better at it next week.

    Yep, you'll get better @CynthiasChoice :). For diet break, I kept my baseline meals much the same, and just added stuff on top. Refeed required a total overhaul! The only things the same as usual are yoghurt with breakfast (having cereal with it instead of fruit) and my protein shake in the evening (though I'm having strawberry shake instead of chocolate with dark choc peanut butter, cos fat...). Oh and cottage cheese as part of lunch, except now it's on a baked potato instead of mixed with avocado (cos fat...).

    Thanks for the encouragement! The first few days I was just adding to my normal meals, as you suggested. Cutting fat and adding carbs is a challenge for me as well. Then it dawned on me that this should be somewhat fun, and I could actually have a bit of the foods I rarely eat anymore, like chow mien. Damn, but that was hard to log! No one in the world measures chow mien in grams??!! And how would I ever know how much oil the chef used in that? Maybe the chow mien wasn't my best idea because now my data is likely inaccurate. But it was fun :)

    I lost a pound after two days of my diet break, and then gained a pound and a half after the chow mien. Maybe salt/water weight. I'm really interested to hear updates on your experience over the next few weeks.

    You don't need to cut fat with the full diet break, so just leave that as normal, or more if you like! I did read and understand why the lower fat is important on the shorter re-feed, but eczema fatigue is messing with my mind, so it's gone again :\. And yes, definitely have stuff that you've had to limit cos it doesn't fit. As you yourself said, an important part of this is learning what maintenance looks like for you, and part of that is reincorporating those foods :)
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