Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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CynthiasChoice wrote: »Oh, and another thing - after 5 days on a diet break, I'm sleeping again! I knew something was off with me because I've always been blessed in regards to sleep. My head hits the pillow and within 5 minutes I'm out. Not true though for the last several months. At bedtime, my mind just wouldn't turn off, and there's no particular issue in my life to explain that sort of restlessness. High cortisol would explain it though.
I've gotten some great sleep the last two nights. I hope it's a sign that my hormones are balancing, and not just carb crash.
Yep, that's hormones rebalancing
I was meaning to ask how you are finding the extra carbs. From memory, you keep them low to help with cravings? Any problems there?4 -
CynthiasChoice wrote: »Oh, and another thing - after 5 days on a diet break, I'm sleeping again! I knew something was off with me because I've always been blessed in regards to sleep. My head hits the pillow and within 5 minutes I'm out. Not true though for the last several months. At bedtime, my mind just wouldn't turn off, and there's no particular issue in my life to explain that sort of restlessness. High cortisol would explain it though.
I've gotten some great sleep the last two nights. I hope it's a sign that my hormones are balancing, and not just carb crash.
That's the extra's that are sometimes missed.
I noticed several comments reading through the 4 pages that seemed to suggest the main benefit to the leptin increase was controlling the hunger that would be starting when it dropped.
And while that is one thing, couple other posts mentioned the cortisol and the thyroid - great other reasons for wanting these improvements.
And those improvements are not only for those down near goal weight, even those with plenty of fat to lose have those changes if deficit is great enough - several studies seem to show the body just doesn't like to lose the fat level it's at, whether it's got plenty or little to spare, hormones are changing even if no feelings of uncontrollable hunger. Leptin is dropping.
In fact I'd suggest that someone on MFP doing a good job of food logging is probably not going to get hit by the hunger aspect of leptin drop so bad they blow it all, at least not those with reasonable deficit and proper viewing of food (no "good" or "bad" and super limited diet) as a means to an end goal.
It's good to see some of these studies getting into such gritty details for specific groups of people.
Too bad not as much interest in doing some studies for things that might benefit a bigger group, give some similar details for application. Though perhaps that's the point, in general, follow the major already known points until you need these finer details later.
Who wants to bet how long it takes, say Weight Watchers or similar, to include something like this in their program. Trying to recall what I heard them recently do as a change that was from research from like many years ago.
Great post Nony_Mouse.9 -
Thanks for the added insights @heybales 3
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Oh, and it would be nice if Weight Watchers incorporated something sensible into their programme! I started WW way back in the Dark Ages (okay, 1988) as a tubby teen, and the programme then was, for all intents and purposes, based on macros, with some extra calories to 'spend' on whatever you liked. It was low fat (cos '80s), but otherwise, well, a whole lot more sensible that the more recent Points programmes have been!7
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As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs
but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?1 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs
but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?
Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs
but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?
Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.
yeah, I mean still high DESPITE the fact it will have fallen during more than 12 weeks of non-stop deficit... indicating that it was extremely high at my heaviest
not planning to do a re-ffed or diet break for a fair while, may eat maintenance for a week over Christmas / New Year0 -
Knowing about diet breaks and choosing not to employ them until there are obvious signs it's needed is kinda like watching the rain clouds approaching but not getting the laundry off the line until it's hosing down. You know metabolic adaptation is happening, whether you can feel it/see it or not, building regular diet breaks into your weight loss plan just makes sense.
Also like waiting for the oil light in your car to come on and risking a seized engine instead of checking the level regularly and topping up when required.11 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs
but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?
Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.
yeah, I mean still high DESPITE the fact it will have fallen during more than 12 weeks of non-stop deficit... indicating that it was extremely high at my heaviest
not planning to do a re-ffed or diet break for a fair while, may eat maintenance for a week over Christmas / New Year
That timing is probably okay for you, I wouldn't push it any longer, but do it for two weeks (did you read the article?).5 -
Another massive THANK YOUR for this thread!
I'd tried to raise the hormone issues somewhere else on the boards after my PT taught me about the concept when I was having an epic compliance fail/hungry all the time/seeing results but just ARGH type situation, and was totally shouted down and told it was a load of nonsense and the only thing that mattered was CICO.
So hurrah for finding more leanies just trying to get a bit leaner who actually share useful information. Hurrah!
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »As I said in earlier posts on this thread, started at 130kgs / 288lbs 89 days ago, been eating 2000 a day consistently so maybe not a surprise, have lost 35lbs
but I'm still not really hungry... still high leptin levels, huh?
Leptin falls by 50% in the first week at a deficit (then slows significantly, but keeps dropping). But, you would have started out with high leptin because of your weight. You're also eating a reasonable number of calories, so not as likely to feel hungry. I wouldn't necessarily assume your leptin is still high because you're not hungry though. Increasing hunger can be an overt sign, but more so for leaner/healthy weight individuals. I wouldn't rely on it as an indicator that it's time for a diet break in someone above healthy weight.
This^^0 -
Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!1
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Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.
The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!
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I haven't had time to watch it, but am just starting my second week of eating maintenance cals after a long time of dieting... I surprisingly haven't gained a thing, except for a few hundred grams after a high carb day yesterday (two lower carb days to compensate, and dropped fat to 40g to bump carbs up more)....
Training hard and feeling good so I might do it for a while!7 -
Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.
The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!
Yes definitely, while I made it through, looking back I probably would have benefit from a good diet break weeks before reaching that breaking point. I kept thinking "but what's the point, I'm so close to the end...." (however, I underestimated how far I really was from the end) now I know better and see the benefit. Each bulk/cut I learn a little bit more, do things a little differently, become a little more successful.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Knowing about diet breaks and choosing not to employ them until there are obvious signs it's needed is kinda like watching the rain clouds approaching but not getting the laundry off the line until it's hosing down. You know metabolic adaptation is happening, whether you can feel it/see it or not, building regular diet breaks into your weight loss plan just makes sense.
Also like waiting for the oil light in your car to come on and risking a seized engine instead of checking the level regularly and topping up when required.
Preventing the issues is a whole lot easier than trying to get out of them too.
Thinking about the research study where they followed the Biggest Loser folks for a year afterwards - and they had plenty to lose at the start - they still had the lower than expected TDEE and had to eat so little just to maintain the weight loss they had accomplished. Let alone getting down to a healthy weight they really wanted to be at on their own.
I'm sure a 2 week diet break would go over really well for drama on that program.
Oh, and thanks for reminder what I forgot to do on last fillup at station.6 -
Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.
The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!
Yes definitely, while I made it through, looking back I probably would have benefit from a good diet break weeks before reaching that breaking point. I kept thinking "but what's the point, I'm so close to the end...." (however, I underestimated how far I really was from the end) now I know better and see the benefit. Each bulk/cut I learn a little bit more, do things a little differently, become a little more successful.
I think we can sometimes be our own worst critics. You could stop cutting right now and stay right where you are and you would still look fabulous and be in fabulous shape. I'm sure there are many of us that would be happy to be as lean as you are!
But, yes, what you describe is what I called "the nose to the grindstone" mentality in an earlier post. It's counter productive but there are psychological factors to get over to be proactive and take the darn break!! I think with your experience of bulking in the past, you would have an easier time of it.5 -
Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.
The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!
Yes definitely, while I made it through, looking back I probably would have benefit from a good diet break weeks before reaching that breaking point. I kept thinking "but what's the point, I'm so close to the end...." (however, I underestimated how far I really was from the end) now I know better and see the benefit. Each bulk/cut I learn a little bit more, do things a little differently, become a little more successful.
I think we can sometimes be our own worst critics. You could stop cutting right now and stay right where you are and you would still look fabulous and be in fabulous shape. I'm sure there are many of us that would be happy to be as lean as you are!
But, yes, what you describe is what I called "the nose to the grindstone" mentality in an earlier post. It's counter productive but there are psychological factors to get over to be proactive and take the darn break!! I think with your experience of bulking in the past, you would have an easier time of it.
Aww thanks!
Yea well I am finished cutting, now easing into my bulk, so I won't be this lean for long haha. 2 -
@VintageFeline - Yes, ma'am! All too familiar with those two names. But thank you for the "look there" post. You don't know that I follow their youtube channels. I really like it when Eric Helms is interviewed by a couple of other channels and they have their little pow-wows. I like to talk....a lot.....but when those folks speak I shut up and listen.0
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@mmapags - I really like the idea of a diet break. Or a gym break. In fact, I think that concept should be entitled "But, we were on a break!". For some reason, that phrase sounds really familiar to me (not that I ever watched Friends on TV....no, sir! Never). Most people have never heard of that concept....or believe that it is valid. Kinda like telling a person who is 5'3" @ 200lbs but is eating 700 Calories a day that "Girl, you need to eat a heck of a lot more food"......you get the "you are telling a fat person to eat more....and, a whole lot more at that?" response. But it is absolutely the right thing to do.
And, I do not know, @sardelsa , if you saw the video from Lyle McDonald on this topic? Likely the one that @mmapags is referencing.2 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »@mmapags - I really like the idea of a diet break. Or a gym break. In fact, I think that concept should be entitled "But, we were on a break!". For some reason, that phrase sounds really familiar to me (not that I ever watched Friends on TV....no, sir! Never). Most people have never heard of that concept....or believe that it is valid. Kinda like telling a person who is 5'3" @ 200lbs but is eating 700 Calories a day that "Girl, you need to eat a heck of a lot more food"......you get the "you are telling a fat person to eat more....and, a whole lot more at that?" response. But it is absolutely the right thing to do.
And, I do not know, @sardelsa , if you saw the video from Lyle McDonald on this topic? Likely the one that @mmapags is referencing.
She has mentioned that she had skimmed it. But, yeah, I get you. Both Gym breaks and Diet breaks are beneficial but counter intuitive and some people have trouble wrapping their brain around it.1 -
This thread should really be stickied.8
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »Oh, and another thing - after 5 days on a diet break, I'm sleeping again! I knew something was off with me because I've always been blessed in regards to sleep. My head hits the pillow and within 5 minutes I'm out. Not true though for the last several months. At bedtime, my mind just wouldn't turn off, and there's no particular issue in my life to explain that sort of restlessness. High cortisol would explain it though.
I've gotten some great sleep the last two nights. I hope it's a sign that my hormones are balancing, and not just carb crash.
Yep, that's hormones rebalancing
I was meaning to ask how you are finding the extra carbs. From memory, you keep them low to help with cravings? Any problems there?
Good memory! I'm postmenopausal and inactive due to bilateral knee injuries and a shoulder injury, so my TDEE is low. It's been my experience that keeping carbs and sugars down helps me keep cravings at bay, so yes, that has been a concern this past week and something I'm keeping an eye on. I've had a few episodes of angst and wanting to dive into a binge even when I didn't feel hungry. I caved yesterday. After eating too much sugar (BBQ sauce and a pear) at lunch, I then polished off a full pint of Halo Top mid afternoon. UGH! I ended up close to my macros by end of day, but I was disappointed in myself. It usually just takes a cup of tea or tall glass of water and a distraction to head off overeating.
I need some practice with balancing thoughts of "I can have more now" with "I need to take care of myself." I will start keeping data on times and circumstances of cravings so I know what to do next diet break. With 40 more pounds to lose, I'll be at this another year or more. Actually... the rest of my life! Reading some maintenance threads might also be a good idea.
So happy to see so much activity on this thread! See, I didn't steal your thunder!!3 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »@mmapags - I really like the idea of a diet break. Or a gym break. In fact, I think that concept should be entitled "But, we were on a break!". For some reason, that phrase sounds really familiar to me (not that I ever watched Friends on TV....no, sir! Never). Most people have never heard of that concept....or believe that it is valid. Kinda like telling a person who is 5'3" @ 200lbs but is eating 700 Calories a day that "Girl, you need to eat a heck of a lot more food"......you get the "you are telling a fat person to eat more....and, a whole lot more at that?" response. But it is absolutely the right thing to do.
And, I do not know, @sardelsa , if you saw the video from Lyle McDonald on this topic? Likely the one that @mmapags is referencing.
She has mentioned that she had skimmed it. But, yeah, I get you. Both Gym breaks and Diet breaks are beneficial but counter intuitive and some people have trouble wrapping their brain around it.
Yea I have been watching bits and pieces, hopefully I can watch the whole thing at some point start to finish. I know he does mention women and the benefits, and how the cals are usually pretty low and they tend to be more glycogen depleted. See me, well, my cutting calories are higher than most in the first place so I had no issues there. But I did find refeeds helped my gym performance (energy to do high volume and strength increases), hormones seemed fine (I didn't lose my cycle), and adherence was great, I typically don't have binging tendencies so it is hard to say if the refeeds helped that or it was just how I am.
And yea it is a hard thing to wrap your head around when you have a specific goal. Especially for me, I didn't want to delay getting into my bulk, and I kept thinking.. "I'm going to be upping the cals soon when I bulk anyways, so just hang in there". But ya, I think I am going to try more diet breaks this time around especially if I want to do a more aggressive deficit (which I wasn't able to do this past cut).1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer
... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
This thread is fabulous - thanks for posting the video, even if it's blocked on my work computer and I keep forgetting to fire it up at home. I have read through the links though. I've been very curious about the effect of maintenance weekends personally, as I've been eating at or above maintenance probably 1 day out of 3 or 4 since I started losing (usually but not always weekends), and at least 9.5 months and 32 pounds in have not felt any negative effects of being in an overall deficit. Certainly I'm not losing as fast as I could, but it's been steady enough that I'm quite happy and feel optimistic going into year two. After reading the link on https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/ I feel extra bad for folks who are really impatient to lose/stressed out about water gains/worried a single day over goal will ruin everything.5 -
Yesterday was my first of fourteen days of my first purposeful diet break, and it was harder than I expected. I know I obviously ate enough to gain 150 pounds, but I'm so used to eating at a deficit that eating more than that is unexpectedly hard.
It's only 500 or so extra calories, but I was so full last night after I got all my normal deficit calories in. And I may have overestimated my popcorn calories, so I might have not gotten alllllllll my calories in. Oops.
Today I had some calorie dense cookies, so it'll be easier. I'll be eating a lot of peanut butter for the next two weeks! 5 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Thanks @Nony_Mouse!
I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.
And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer... sorry!
I'll forgive you this time @maybyn
Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
This thread is fabulous - thanks for posting the video, even if it's blocked on my work computer and I keep forgetting to fire it up at home. I have read through the links though. I've been very curious about the effect of maintenance weekends personally, as I've been eating at or above maintenance probably 1 day out of 3 or 4 since I started losing (usually but not always weekends), and at least 9.5 months and 32 pounds in have not felt any negative effects of being in an overall deficit. Certainly I'm not losing as fast as I could, but it's been steady enough that I'm quite happy and feel optimistic going into year two. After reading the link on https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/ I feel extra bad for folks who are really impatient to lose/stressed out about water gains/worried a single day over goal will ruin everything.
Being in an overall deficit is what drives fat loss. Full stop. How you achieve a net deficit is a personal choice.
As a summary of 5 pages worth of info:
- As soon as you're in a deficit, hormonal changes happen for everyone, though there is a delayed response before you even feel it. Caveat: if you have a lot of weight to lose, you may not feel those effects until you're leaner.
- The concept of refeeds are to address downregulated hormonal responses, primarily leptin, which responds to levels of body fat, but carbs trigger an upregulation of leptin faster than fat can; due to the nature of delayed response, smaller refeed schedules probably aren't doing much; therefore, longer refeed schedules actually bumped up leptin levels as close to baseline as possible (it's never true baseline until you're no longer on a diet). Caveat: glycogen depletion allows for higher carb intake without actual fat gain and somewhat "tricks" fat cells into thinking there is permanent energy storage happening to signal leptin - it is not a free for all pass to eat all the things.
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
- Diet breaks are different from refeeds. They are extended periods of maintenance feeding at your new lower weight to practice long-term weight loss habits. No one wants (or should want) to chronically diet forever or be on repetitive bulk/cut cycles. They also have the benefit of providing a psychological reprieve from the deleterious effects of dieting. Again, it's not a free pass to eat all the things, but you do get more wiggle room.
- If after the diet break period, you still need (or want) to lose more body fat, then continue another round of dieting. If you no longer need (or want) to lose body fat and you are at a satisfactory level of personal health, comfort, happiness, etc., congrats, you've won the dieting game and can continue maintaining *your new lower weight* AKA don't get fat again.
- Not discussed in this particular podcast, but the general advice among the fitness and nutrition science community is
1) don't get fat in the first place if you're lean,
2) if you are starting from being overweight, don't regain what you've lost,
3) the more overweight you were at your starting point, the easier it is to rebound AKA you gain fat faster than your naturally leaner counterparts - it sucks but it's true,
4) continually gaining and losing large amounts of body fat is more detrimental than losing it once and maintaining, and finally,
5) there is a range of optimal body fat % for the human body (extremely variable due to demographic), where having both, too much and too little, are harmful.
Just as an additional observation, it's good to be mindful of your intake whether you're tracking calories/macros/micros/etc., but don't get neurotic about it, which is why the concept of flexible dieting exists, such as following something like the 80/20 rule. If you are recovering from an ED or some other dysfunctional relationship with food, recognize your triggers and be aware if you are falling into old patterns and/or developing new ones that detract from the goal of an acceptable form of general health, mental and physical.22 -
Im attempting a longer refeed now. Im so lost xD Scary stuff. I wanted to focus on spreading my meals out more, Since i struggle to need to eat pretty constantly now. But im guessing not worth trying to overlap eating more and spreading out. So ill just focus on eating more anyway. I already eat very high carb. Just want to fix this damn appetite LOL.
Iv known all along i needed a refeed but i ignored it and chugged on, 110 pounds down im now 125 pounds and starving non stop no matter what i do i cant stop thinking of food every hour xD No matter the macros. Whoops
Hopefully upping calories a bit will help (ill try my hardest to match fitbit but it worries me lol) Seems to up my calories im upping my sodium, alot. Weird lol.
Really hope it helps the starving things only been since i got pretty lean3 -
Yesterday was my first of fourteen days of my first purposeful diet break, and it was harder than I expected. I know I obviously ate enough to gain 150 pounds, but I'm so used to eating at a deficit that eating more than that is unexpectedly hard.
It's only 500 or so extra calories, but I was so full last night after I got all my normal deficit calories in. And I may have overestimated my popcorn calories, so I might have not gotten alllllllll my calories in. Oops.
Today I had some calorie dense cookies, so it'll be easier. I'll be eating a lot of peanut butter for the next two weeks!
It is an adjustment. No doubt. The more you do it, the better you get at it though. You got this!0 -
Interesting. This past cut I did a calorie cycle where I would bring the cals up a bit more on lifting days and especially on weekends. I don't know if I was doing it right because while most of the extra cals came from carbs, fats usually went up too. Not sure if he addresses this in the video as I only skimmed trough it briefly, but how do you know if you are doing refeeds correctly? Did it really matter? I only really felt drained at the end (of 16 weeks) at which point I just headed into maintenance. I didn't do any formal diet breaks during that time. I am not a competitor or anything, so I did not get that lean, but I would say lean enough that these high cal days were necessary!
You were intuitively doing pretty close to the right thing. IIRC, Lyle recommends raising carbs but keep fats the same or lower during the short refeed windows. But, you didn't hurt yourself any. You are pretty lean, so it was a smart thing to do.
The one thing I'd consider on your next cut is a 2 week full diet break every 6 to 8 weeks. It's help make your cut more efficient and probably have you feeling so drained at the end. 16 weeks is a long grind without a break both mentally and physiologically!
Yes definitely, while I made it through, looking back I probably would have benefit from a good diet break weeks before reaching that breaking point. I kept thinking "but what's the point, I'm so close to the end...." (however, I underestimated how far I really was from the end) now I know better and see the benefit. Each bulk/cut I learn a little bit more, do things a little differently, become a little more successful.
This was me too, I was aiming to lose a mighty 3.5 kg, but then I watched some of Lyle's podcasts specifically on women, and was like 'oh, actually...'. So my diet break was at Week 6. I definitely recommend checking some of those out. The ones with Abbey Orr are the most recent, so have his latest thoughts from the book he's writing (actually editing now!): https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/podcasts/epic-podcast-with-abbey-orr-of-first-base-fitness.html/
Oh and yeah, you're lean! Way more so than me.4
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