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Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Thanks @GottaBurnEmAll

    The podcasts are also often quite technical, so having some understanding of the physiology of weight loss first can be mighty helpful. Lyle's website is jam packed with short, user-friendly articles: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/

    This is another excellent podcast (actually two, cos it's long!), the second part he talks a lot about weight loss for the general public, as opposed to more of a focus on hardcore fitness peeps: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/podcasts/epic-podcast-with-abbey-orr-of-first-base-fitness.html/

    Available on iTunes as well for those who don't like videos.
  • maybynmaybyn Member Posts: 236 Member Member Posts: 236 Member

    ----

    When you diet, even if the deficit is a reasonable amount, certain hormones are downregulated and they affect satiation and your energy levels. The purpose of a higher carb maintenance refeed is to get those hormone levels back to baseline so that you are compliant with your diet, your energy levels when you exercise are where they should be, and your diet just overall works better.

    ----

    Does that mean that even if you are on a small deficit but on a reasonable amount of carbs, a higher carb maintenance refeed is required to get the hormone levels back to baseline?

    And is this true for both lean and not so lean people?

    For example, I'm on 1800 cals atm (60% carbs), which is approx 300 cal deficit and BF is around 22% (DEXA scan, may be a bit lower now). Is it a good idea to go to say, 80-90% carbs at 2100 cals maintenance or stick with 60% carb at 2100 cals or something else?
  • CynthiasChoiceCynthiasChoice Member Posts: 1,141 Member Member Posts: 1,141 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Thanks @GottaBurnEmAll

    The podcasts are also often quite technical, so having some understanding of the physiology of weight loss first can be mighty helpful. Lyle's website is jam packed with short, user-friendly articles: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/

    This is another excellent podcast (actually two, cos it's long!), the second part he talks a lot about weight loss for the general public, as opposed to more of a focus on hardcore fitness peeps: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/podcasts/epic-podcast-with-abbey-orr-of-first-base-fitness.html/

    Available on iTunes as well for those who don't like videos.

    Thanks for sharing the links! After listening to a bit of the second link you posted, part 1, Lyle McDonald states that the two most important things women can do to help their bodies burn more fat is lift heavy weights and eat more protein.

    For some reason, his voice puts me to sleep! Finally - the sleep remedy I've been looking for, lol! (No disrespect intended.)
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Thanks @GottaBurnEmAll

    The podcasts are also often quite technical, so having some understanding of the physiology of weight loss first can be mighty helpful. Lyle's website is jam packed with short, user-friendly articles: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/

    This is another excellent podcast (actually two, cos it's long!), the second part he talks a lot about weight loss for the general public, as opposed to more of a focus on hardcore fitness peeps: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/podcasts/epic-podcast-with-abbey-orr-of-first-base-fitness.html/

    Available on iTunes as well for those who don't like videos.

    Thanks for sharing the links! After listening to a bit of the second link you posted, part 1, Lyle McDonald states that the two most important things women can do to help their bodies burn more fat is lift heavy weights and eat more protein.

    For some reason, his voice puts me to sleep! Finally - the sleep remedy I've been looking for, lol! (No disrespect intended.)

    Carry on listening to that podcast and he actually talks about the importance of sleep!

    And yes, if you get nothing else from it, those are the two key messages for women :)
  • JaydedMissJaydedMiss Member Posts: 4,292 Member Member Posts: 4,292 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »

    ----

    When you diet, even if the deficit is a reasonable amount, certain hormones are downregulated and they affect satiation and your energy levels. The purpose of a higher carb maintenance refeed is to get those hormone levels back to baseline so that you are compliant with your diet, your energy levels when you exercise are where they should be, and your diet just overall works better.

    ----

    Does that mean that even if you are on a small deficit but on a reasonable amount of carbs, a higher carb maintenance refeed is required to get the hormone levels back to baseline?

    And is this true for both lean and not so lean people?

    For example, I'm on 1800 cals atm (60% carbs), which is approx 300 cal deficit and BF is around 22% (DEXA scan, may be a bit lower now). Is it a good idea to go to say, 80-90% carbs at 2100 cals maintenance or stick with 60% carb at 2100 cals or something else?

    The leaner you get, the more important things like diet breaks and refeeds become. Because your deficit is small, your metabolic adaptations aren't going to be as pronounced as they would be for someone at a higher deficit, but they are still happening. If you're happy with how you are trucking along, then you can probably just carry on as you are. If you're finding that you're starting to struggle, either in terms of weight loss slowing down, feeling hungrier, or having less energy, then a refeed or full diet break may be in order. I don't think you need to go to 80-90% carbs though, that would really be squeezing out protein, which should be kept the same.

    You'll be getting more carbs just by virtue of eating more. My carb intake usually sits around 80-100g a day, just because protein and fat don't leave a lot of room for more, and when I do have the cals for more, I'm probably going to choose a protein shake with dark choc peanut butter over anything else! So for me, getting carbs up for the refeed was really important. It probably also depends on what sort of exercise you are doing and how much you are depleting your glycogen.

    My take on all of this is that everyone should be doing periodic diet breaks (read the article on diet breaks, it's short and explains it all, why and how to). Refeeds are more for lean people getting leaner (or people like me who are playing with the last few pounds, like to mess around with this stuff, and don't really care if it takes a few extra weeks to get to goal).

    What about people like me who eat 200-300g of carbs a day xD Iv been hungry non stop lately, Cant really up my carbs more thn i have. Means a carb refeed for me wouldnt help much i imagine lol. Iv never done one in 110 pounds loss because i have always eaten high carb even with big deficits so i didnt see a point
    edited October 2017
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    JaydedMiss wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »

    ----

    When you diet, even if the deficit is a reasonable amount, certain hormones are downregulated and they affect satiation and your energy levels. The purpose of a higher carb maintenance refeed is to get those hormone levels back to baseline so that you are compliant with your diet, your energy levels when you exercise are where they should be, and your diet just overall works better.

    ----

    Does that mean that even if you are on a small deficit but on a reasonable amount of carbs, a higher carb maintenance refeed is required to get the hormone levels back to baseline?

    And is this true for both lean and not so lean people?

    For example, I'm on 1800 cals atm (60% carbs), which is approx 300 cal deficit and BF is around 22% (DEXA scan, may be a bit lower now). Is it a good idea to go to say, 80-90% carbs at 2100 cals maintenance or stick with 60% carb at 2100 cals or something else?

    The leaner you get, the more important things like diet breaks and refeeds become. Because your deficit is small, your metabolic adaptations aren't going to be as pronounced as they would be for someone at a higher deficit, but they are still happening. If you're happy with how you are trucking along, then you can probably just carry on as you are. If you're finding that you're starting to struggle, either in terms of weight loss slowing down, feeling hungrier, or having less energy, then a refeed or full diet break may be in order. I don't think you need to go to 80-90% carbs though, that would really be squeezing out protein, which should be kept the same.

    You'll be getting more carbs just by virtue of eating more. My carb intake usually sits around 80-100g a day, just because protein and fat don't leave a lot of room for more, and when I do have the cals for more, I'm probably going to choose a protein shake with dark choc peanut butter over anything else! So for me, getting carbs up for the refeed was really important. It probably also depends on what sort of exercise you are doing and how much you are depleting your glycogen.

    My take on all of this is that everyone should be doing periodic diet breaks (read the article on diet breaks, it's short and explains it all, why and how to). Refeeds are more for lean people getting leaner (or people like me who are playing with the last few pounds, like to mess around with this stuff, and don't really care if it takes a few extra weeks to get to goal).

    What about people like me who eat 200-300g of carbs a day xD Iv been hungry non stop lately, Cant really up my carbs more thn i have. Means a carb refeed for me wouldnt help much i imagine lol. Iv never done one in 110 pounds loss because i have always eaten high carb even with big deficits so i didnt see a point

    Can't remember if you're still losing or in maintenance now, but if you're still losing, diet break.
  • JaydedMissJaydedMiss Member Posts: 4,292 Member Member Posts: 4,292 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    JaydedMiss wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »

    ----

    When you diet, even if the deficit is a reasonable amount, certain hormones are downregulated and they affect satiation and your energy levels. The purpose of a higher carb maintenance refeed is to get those hormone levels back to baseline so that you are compliant with your diet, your energy levels when you exercise are where they should be, and your diet just overall works better.

    ----

    Does that mean that even if you are on a small deficit but on a reasonable amount of carbs, a higher carb maintenance refeed is required to get the hormone levels back to baseline?

    And is this true for both lean and not so lean people?

    For example, I'm on 1800 cals atm (60% carbs), which is approx 300 cal deficit and BF is around 22% (DEXA scan, may be a bit lower now). Is it a good idea to go to say, 80-90% carbs at 2100 cals maintenance or stick with 60% carb at 2100 cals or something else?

    The leaner you get, the more important things like diet breaks and refeeds become. Because your deficit is small, your metabolic adaptations aren't going to be as pronounced as they would be for someone at a higher deficit, but they are still happening. If you're happy with how you are trucking along, then you can probably just carry on as you are. If you're finding that you're starting to struggle, either in terms of weight loss slowing down, feeling hungrier, or having less energy, then a refeed or full diet break may be in order. I don't think you need to go to 80-90% carbs though, that would really be squeezing out protein, which should be kept the same.

    You'll be getting more carbs just by virtue of eating more. My carb intake usually sits around 80-100g a day, just because protein and fat don't leave a lot of room for more, and when I do have the cals for more, I'm probably going to choose a protein shake with dark choc peanut butter over anything else! So for me, getting carbs up for the refeed was really important. It probably also depends on what sort of exercise you are doing and how much you are depleting your glycogen.

    My take on all of this is that everyone should be doing periodic diet breaks (read the article on diet breaks, it's short and explains it all, why and how to). Refeeds are more for lean people getting leaner (or people like me who are playing with the last few pounds, like to mess around with this stuff, and don't really care if it takes a few extra weeks to get to goal).

    What about people like me who eat 200-300g of carbs a day xD Iv been hungry non stop lately, Cant really up my carbs more thn i have. Means a carb refeed for me wouldnt help much i imagine lol. Iv never done one in 110 pounds loss because i have always eaten high carb even with big deficits so i didnt see a point

    Can't remember if you're still losing or in maintenance now, but if you're still losing, diet break.

    im half and half...working on slowing my loss down i dont want to get to small, If i dont lose anymore i wont mind :D Struggling to get my mind in the mindset of eating more in general really doubt id be able to even eat near what i need to for a full maintenance. Im WAY to active i burn way to much. So im working on moving less and eating more at the same time. Im in a weird position lol.
  • maybynmaybyn Member Posts: 236 Member Member Posts: 236 Member
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    I'll forgive you this time @maybyn ;)

    Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    I'll forgive you this time @maybyn ;)

    Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.

    Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.

    For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.

    And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.

    When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.

    Simples.

    Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?
  • GottaBurnEmAllGottaBurnEmAll Member Posts: 7,722 Member Member Posts: 7,722 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    I'll forgive you this time @maybyn ;)

    Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.

    Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.

    For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.

    And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.

    When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.

    Simples.

    Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?

    Potatoes and cottage cheese are my homies. I want your recipe.
    edited October 2017
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,642 Member Member Posts: 5,642 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    I'll forgive you this time @maybyn ;)

    Refeed is awesome, though be warned, if you're like me and tend towards higher fat (I'm generally around 70-80g, but can easily be as high 100g), keeping that down around 50g is hard work! Whether a 'by the book' refeed is necessary, or just having weekends at maintenance is enough is the question! One I'm pretty sure will be answered in Lyle's forthcoming book for us wimmin folks.

    Well, I'll go with what I plan on doing. I'm fairly high carb and already eat around 50 grams of fat and am trying to lose that last bit of weight.

    For me? It's simply going to be eating at maintenance, which will of course up my carbs, because that's what I'd up to get those extra calories.

    And because I like potatoes and breakfast cereal. A lot.

    When I lower my calories (say on a rest day), those are the calories I cut, because I want to keep in my veg, protein and fat.

    Simples.

    Wanna come eat some of my potato au gratin for me, but still let me have the cals?

    Potatoes and cottage cheese are my homies. I want your recipe.

    Coming your way!!
  • mmapagsmmapags Member Posts: 8,953 Member Member Posts: 8,953 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    Thanks @Nony_Mouse!

    I was on a deficit for 5 weeks at 50% carbs, then went on a 4 weeks maintenance (not by choice but because as you said, my performance was just tanking and going back to maintenance helped with hunger). Now, I'm back to a deficit again and upped to 60%. I really like the idea of a regular weekly refeed.

    And yeah, I was looking for a quick answer :blush:... sorry!

    You should really watch/listen to the podcast. One day isn't enough. This is the point I made about the perception amongst the general population of dieters (and a good chunk of "bros") that a refeed is just a day of having at it isn't what it's about at all.

    Leanness is a big factor taken into consideration as to how long and how often a refeed should happen. The reason the video was shared was so people could get access to that information for themselves and their current situation easily. Take the time to watch, it's worth it.

    Excellent info here and in this whole post. A couple of thoughts, if you look at the hormonal physiology of dieting in general, the adaptations the are helpful are most helpful at the beginning of going into calorie deficit for a short time (a week or so as a guess) before that negative adaptations start gradually working against you. (thank you ancestors and the ability to survive famine!)

    The same applies to a refeed/diet break. Doing it for a day will have minimal impact. 2 days are even better. The closer you get to goal weight or the longer you've been in deficit, the more important it is. Keeping the nose to the grindstone is the hard way. I can't encourage people enough to watch the video and read the links here. It is worth it.
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