Of refeeds and diet breaks
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've been following the thread, sort of going back and forth on whether I'm ready to post. I think it's time, I probably need a little help.
I've been losing weight slowly but steadily for a little more than 18 months, like I'm down to about a lb. a month now. I've lost about 45 lbs and weigh between 106 and 108 (5'3", 67 yrs old female). I know I need to stop and maintain, and I can't. My head wants me to weigh 105 lbs, and it also wants me to drop to 104 so maintenance won't go over 105. It's not an eating disorder thing, it's a self image (and I think control) issue.
I keep saying I'm taking a maintenance break during Dec., and I keep panicking when I gain anything a day after eating more than my weight loss calories (which is typical because I usually eat more carbs and carry a little more water). I had no problems with even big fluctuations while in weight loss mode, but I'm over-reacting now and cutting calories until I get back to 106 where apparently my head thinks it's OK to sit for a month. Then my head thinks we're going to lose that last couple of lbs. and live happily ever after underweight.
I think I'm really worried about losing control once I'm no longer in active weight loss mode. I've never set a weight goal before, got to the goal and increased calories just enough to stay there. It's always been weight loss mode with no goal until something changes in my life and I abandon all hope and eat my way back up. I REALLY don't want that to happen this time.
I've never tried actually talking out my concerns about how to manage maintenance, and never really considered that I might have some issues with body image and possibly control issues. Thank you all for providing a safe place to talk about these things.
Ah, well, as you will have seen, my head decided to go for the lower weight, because I found it so much easier with utilising refeeds to actually stick to a deficit. But even at the start of the diet break that wasn't, I was already umming and ahhing about whether I really needed to lose the extra kg. Then late luteal increased bmr and eczema flare knocked off a chunk more
. Obviously I don't know what's going on under the remaining water weight, we'll see in the next few days I guess, but I decided I'm done yesterday. Now, whether that holds is another matter!! Though, I'd really like to not have anymore new bras suddenly be too small a week after buying them. So, done.
Do you have another goal, such as recomp/strength building, that maybe knowing you need to be at maintenance for will help you stay there?
I've been doing strength training for about 5 months twice a week with a personal trainer, and have made some progress (yay, slightly visible muscles!). It's slow going because we're working around some injuries (repeated rotator cuff surgeries in my right shoulder, and triceps tendon repair in left elbow after tearing it off in a bike accident last Oct.) I really like the idea of recomp, but I don't have the confidence that I'm going to be able to get to the point where I can lift heavy enough weights to make that happen. It's a goal, for sure, but (excuses, excuses) my head wants me to get rid of the fat draped around my middle before we commit to a recomp. And of course, the point of a recomp is to get rid of the fat draped around my middle...
Maybe I'll give myself to the end of Dec. to just keep doing what I'm doing. Wherever I am at the beginning of Jan will be my starting maintenance number. Ok, and I could get a bod-pod type body fat estimate, and use that to set a body fat goal and work toward reducing that over the next year with the challenge being to hold my weight constant at the same time. You've got me thinking from a different perspective now, thanks! I've got some time to let this percolate.
You don't have to lift heavy for recomp, just heavy for you, ie work progressively, increasing weights when the current weight gets easy. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but so long as you are doing that, you will build muscle doing that if you are eating at maintenance.
Hmm didn't realize that. I am lifting progressively, just increasing very slowly (but miraculously injury free) so that's really encouraging.
Slow is fine too - just takes longer.
But if potential injury, probably not slower.
But yes - body has no need to increase muscle until you tap out what you've got for strength, and then continue to over extend (damage) it.
So if you damage it just a little bit each time in order to protect tendons, you get the slow improvement you are getting.
But you are working within your limitations. Some have limits and don't do anything within them.2 -
Muzzie is home Have shot him full of pain meds. Vet appointment late tomorrow morning. 11
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've been following the thread, sort of going back and forth on whether I'm ready to post. I think it's time, I probably need a little help.
I've been losing weight slowly but steadily for a little more than 18 months, like I'm down to about a lb. a month now. I've lost about 45 lbs and weigh between 106 and 108 (5'3", 67 yrs old female). I know I need to stop and maintain, and I can't. My head wants me to weigh 105 lbs, and it also wants me to drop to 104 so maintenance won't go over 105. It's not an eating disorder thing, it's a self image (and I think control) issue.
I keep saying I'm taking a maintenance break during Dec., and I keep panicking when I gain anything a day after eating more than my weight loss calories (which is typical because I usually eat more carbs and carry a little more water). I had no problems with even big fluctuations while in weight loss mode, but I'm over-reacting now and cutting calories until I get back to 106 where apparently my head thinks it's OK to sit for a month. Then my head thinks we're going to lose that last couple of lbs. and live happily ever after underweight.
I think I'm really worried about losing control once I'm no longer in active weight loss mode. I've never set a weight goal before, got to the goal and increased calories just enough to stay there. It's always been weight loss mode with no goal until something changes in my life and I abandon all hope and eat my way back up. I REALLY don't want that to happen this time.
I've never tried actually talking out my concerns about how to manage maintenance, and never really considered that I might have some issues with body image and possibly control issues. Thank you all for providing a safe place to talk about these things.
Ah, well, as you will have seen, my head decided to go for the lower weight, because I found it so much easier with utilising refeeds to actually stick to a deficit. But even at the start of the diet break that wasn't, I was already umming and ahhing about whether I really needed to lose the extra kg. Then late luteal increased bmr and eczema flare knocked off a chunk more. Obviously I don't know what's going on under the remaining water weight, we'll see in the next few days I guess, but I decided I'm done yesterday. Now, whether that holds is another matter!! Though, I'd really like to not have anymore new bras suddenly be too small a week after buying them. So, done.
Do you have another goal, such as recomp/strength building, that maybe knowing you need to be at maintenance for will help you stay there?
I've been doing strength training for about 5 months twice a week with a personal trainer, and have made some progress (yay, slightly visible muscles!). It's slow going because we're working around some injuries (repeated rotator cuff surgeries in my right shoulder, and triceps tendon repair in left elbow after tearing it off in a bike accident last Oct.) I really like the idea of recomp, but I don't have the confidence that I'm going to be able to get to the point where I can lift heavy enough weights to make that happen. It's a goal, for sure, but (excuses, excuses) my head wants me to get rid of the fat draped around my middle before we commit to a recomp. And of course, the point of a recomp is to get rid of the fat draped around my middle...
Maybe I'll give myself to the end of Dec. to just keep doing what I'm doing. Wherever I am at the beginning of Jan will be my starting maintenance number. Ok, and I could get a bod-pod type body fat estimate, and use that to set a body fat goal and work toward reducing that over the next year with the challenge being to hold my weight constant at the same time. You've got me thinking from a different perspective now, thanks! I've got some time to let this percolate.
Since I'm so fatigued right now, I ordered a book for bodyweight work. The guy who wrote You Are Your Own Gym wrote a book for women called Body By You and I just got it yesterday.
I'm older like you are, and the progressions in it seem very doable and manageable and something I can handle while the fatigue is kicking my butt. He has recommendations for kicking each exercise up and down a notch.
So, there you go. You could give that whole thing a go. Recomp would be slower than heavy weights, but you would still be doing some resistance work.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »My Mario is MIA. I noticed he was limping badly late this morning, attempted inspection for injury but suspect his arthritis has flared suddenly and dramatically, rang vet to see if I could get him in today (couldn't), went to get cat to give pain meds, and he evaded capture, clambered over the fence, and hasn't been since. He will be curled up somewhere, but he is in pain, and I'd like him home where I can a) give him pain meds, and b) keep an eye on him. I've searched along the reserve strip behind my place, called and called.
'Come home Mario' vibes would be appreciated.
Come home Mario!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Muzzie is home Have shot him full of pain meds. Vet appointment late tomorrow morning.
Phew!4 -
Post diet break update:
Previous low weight 185. Pre-diet break 186.4. Last week after two week diet break 188.6. This morning 184. Holy whoosh, batman!
Quite possibly not an entirely accurate number. I haven't strength trained in over a week. I've only run once. My main activity has been chasing after my toddler. Tuesday was my anniversary and I ate ALL. THE. THINGS. 100% entirely worth it.
And I have no pet pictures to add
but this tiny human got his first haircut yesterday! 
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Woosh for me too, 200g above start of pred, which is lower than last weight recorded in Fitbit/Trendweight, so in it goes Measurements say there's still a wee bit of water to come off.
And guess what dork just let her cat escape the house? Her cat that she just gave a shot of bupredyne (painkiller, fairly sedating) to? Sigh. He is sitting over in the reserve watching for bunnies. If I try to get him he will run. Hopefully he will wander back shortly. Dork (me and him). I had had him in his carrier overnight to keep him off his sore leg, but let him out so he could go potty and have breakfast. Then he managed to slip past me as I went out to say hi to the tiny, tiny bit of moisture that fell from the sky.4 -
My stoned cat...
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Cats can be so zen.0
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As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...
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Now we just have to hope he wanders back on his own before it's time for his appointment! He has four hours, so should be fine, unless he falls asleep somewhere
![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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You can also see from this pic a) how damn dry it is (it 'rained' for about 2 seconds shortly after I got up), and b) why I am fighting a losing battle with grass pollen.
Planning to strength train today. Feeling pretty good despite being short on sleep again (I felt bad about having to put Muz in his carrier for the night, so stayed up late with him). I also want to reorganise my bedroom and my lounge furniture, which is strength training in itself - bedstead is cast iron, and lounge suite is vintage insanely heavy, um, how am I gonna do that...(chairs have castors, couch does not, and it's old style converts to bed).
Oooh! Raining again!!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...
At least he dispatches of them properly.. Coco is an expert mouse "catcher", but lets them go when she gets bored
Absolutely not good for someone like me with a mouse phobia!!! Her cat flap has been locked lately as if she brings one more live thing in I'm gonna have a frickan heart attack!!! 5 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...
At least he dispatches of them properly.. Coco is an expert mouse "catcher", but lets them go when she gets bored Absolutely not good for someone like me with a mouse phobia!!! Her cat flap has been locked lately as if she brings one more live thing in I'm gonna have a frickan heart attack!!!
I have had a couple of live ones, who have been released, but for the most part they are done for before I see them. He's not interested in the adults, obviously too quick for him. There was one not 20 metres from him, munching on grass, while he was out there this morning.1 -
Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.
Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.
Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.
Oh Lordy, maybe invest in some earplugs so the caterwauling wont do your head in
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Christine_72 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.
Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.
Oh Lordy, maybe invest in some earplugs so the caterwauling wont do your head in
Luckily I have many. Advantages of working on a roading project! And Mario is a howler. And a brat.3 -
I was down another .2 pounds this morning, which while it could be a fluctuation... I know my body patterns from prior whoosh patterns. This is part of the full whoosh.
Anyway, today was a refeed day and I it came just in time because the hungries hit. I was considering starting refeed yesterday and just wasn't hungry, but am wondering for next week, considering how hungry I was today, if it might be better to time my refeed pre-emptively and just do it no matter what my body is telling me.
I keep waiting for what Nony mentioned about these refeeds no longer feeling uncomfortably full to happen. That hasn't started yet.
I'm really not getting this, because you know, this is the same chick who spent the past year having a problem with disinhibited binge-like behavior and who had grown quite accustomed to feeling uncomfortably full.
Now, here I am... 7 weeks? 8 weeks? I've lost count without a binge and I don't like that feeling any more.
Weird. And interesting.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I was down another .2 pounds this morning, which while it could be a fluctuation... I know my body patterns from prior whoosh patterns. This is part of the full whoosh.
Anyway, today was a refeed day and I it came just in time because the hungries hit. I was considering starting refeed yesterday and just wasn't hungry, but am wondering for next week, considering how hungry I was today, if it might be better to time my refeed pre-emptively and just do it no matter what my body is telling me.
I keep waiting for what Nony mentioned about these refeeds no longer feeling uncomfortably full to happen. That hasn't started yet.
I'm really not getting this, because you know, this is the same chick who spent the past year having a problem with disinhibited binge-like behavior and who had grown quite accustomed to feeling uncomfortably full.
Now, here I am... 7 weeks? 8 weeks? I've lost count without a binge and I don't like that feeling any more.
Weird. And interesting.
I think I just got a little better at not leaving myself having to eat stupidly big meals, and if I did, pacing them. Like pizza is perfect, because all the cals, but not actually that much volume. I can munch through one of my pizzas no problems. But totally hear you on going from the 'omg eat all the food!!' to 'oh dear god, more??'. It is indeed weird.
Part of yours is very possibly that your appetite is just so punk atm though. The days I was feeling really wretched the last couple of weeks were only made possible by shakes. If I'd had to eat those calories in solid food, I don't think I could have.2 -
Oh and yes, refeed pre-emptively, I say.0
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Telling tales on ZoneFive, the grey tuxedo kitty for whom I am named.
She was a rescue, and had been on her own for a few months when we adopted her. She had clearly been a house cat at one point, but had been cadging sandwiches outside my office building. She's been with us for almost 10 years, but hasn't forgotten her past as Fierce Huntress.
A couple of winters ago, while we were sitting in the kitchen having our morning coffee, she came up from the basement with a mouse in her mouth. Brought it proudly to me. Normally it would be a very dead mouse, but this time it was still live and kicking. So much so that when she opened her mouth and announced (loudly) that she had brought us an offering, the mouse took off. And then it was utter pandemonium. Molly Bloom and Milo Bloom, our dogs at the time, immediately began barking like lunatics, sniffing frantically where the mouse had dropped. Fivey started looking everywhere for the mouse -- my prey, where is my prey? My husband jumped up and grabbed the big leather grilling gauntlets and a giant wad of paper towel to catch the creature.
Meanwhile I'm still sitting calmly at the table with my coffee, watching this circus unfold. Dogs running in circles barking, cat looking frantically from side to side, husband equipped with everything but a .22 caliber air rifle -- and then I notice the mouse, actually hiding UNDER THE CAT.
I'm not sure how Mousie got away, but eventually calm was restored and the mouse was gone. I often imagine her regaling her friends with tales of the giant loonies upstairs.
Of course Fivey will never admit that she was spoofed by a mouse.
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Haha, that is an awesome story
I have just hung my full length mirror in my bedroom. I moved at the end of April...(to be fair, the way I had the room before, there was no good wall space to put it). I also noticed, after stepping back having cleaned the mirror, that my quad definition down the side is back!!
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VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The nicest thing about menopause is that ALL of this is just distant memories.
If it weren't for the fact doctors are really really reluctant to whip out child bearing age women's baby making bits if there's no medical need I'd do it. Then my mental meds could stop interfering with cycle and the pill. And I could stop buying sanitary products. I'm too old to donate eggs as well now so literally no use to me or anyone else at this point!
I had my “plumbing” disconnected at 38. Best decision for me. My PCP and OB/GYN were awesome and it was covered by insurance. The nurses were appalled, I heard them talking about me when I woke up in recovery. They thought I was a lot younger than I was, but still they have no right to judge. Though I lived in Oklahoma at the time and I was denying my God-given purpose for existence by having surgery that meant I’d never bear children. (Their words, not mine.)
I was in terrible pain each month and (saying the socially unacceptable thing a woman is never supposed to say) I never wanted to have children. Fostering is more my gig. Teenagers. They age out of the system with nothing and no one ever wants to adopt the older ones. At a few get to know someone wants them. I work with college students and they’re the same age group.
TL;DR With the right doc, it’s possible if it’s what you really want. Have to warn you though, the tests before hand SUCK! Far more painful than the surgery and recovery.7 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...
I've heard that rabbits are an ecological problem in Australia-is it the same where you are? I suppose you could console yourself that he's doing the native species a favor lol
Though was it new Zealand that was talking about outlawing cats a few years ago? It's been a long time since I saw the article that said the cats were killing too many native birds so the government was considering it, but I don't remember exactly where it was. I just remember being appalled!0 -
"Hanging out in the shade of a tree" is the pinnacle of any celebrated day.. The only state in the US allowed to have that reference during December is probably Hawaii. Taking a random trip to a tropical island sounds really good right about now. Really, a nap sounds just as good.
Unfortunately, SoCal also qualifies. We’ve had unseasonably warm weather this fall (90 on Thanksgiving and 80’s last week). And then there’s the whole out-of-Control Fire thing.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I went for a walk with the friend who did the weed whacking for me on Saturday tonight. As we're wandering along, he casually announces that, oh yeah, he'd been feeling a bit off before he'd come over, stiff neck etc, and turns out he had a mild case of shingles (he's had them before, so is pretty sure). I currently have a pretty much non-functioning immune system. Chicken pox (and therefore shingles) is one of the things on the list of things to tell my doctor if I come in contact with. I have felt absolutely punk today. I could just about cry at this point.
Also, things I could have done with knowing a little sooner than five days later.
I clicked “like” for support, but would rather have a (((hugs))) button.4 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...
I've heard that rabbits are an ecological problem in Australia-is it the same where you are? I suppose you could console yourself that he's doing the native species a favor lol
Though was it new Zealand that was talking about outlawing cats a few years ago? It's been a long time since I saw the article that said the cats were killing too many native birds so the government was considering it, but I don't remember exactly where it was. I just remember being appalled!
Massive, massive problem. And I know this, and my conservation ethos is strong. But they are so cute and tiny
Wasn't the government, rich man (who did actually form a political party this year). He has backed off a little from his hard line stance. Some of his stuff I actually agree with (de-sexing, microchipping, registration). He also did a campaign against rats. Several people pointed out that cats kill quite a few of those, so, y'know...I know my cats aren't saints, and do get the odd native bird probably, but the twins have always been far more rodent-oriented in their hunting, so I figure the occasional bird is well balanced out.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »So I went for a walk with the friend who did the weed whacking for me on Saturday tonight. As we're wandering along, he casually announces that, oh yeah, he'd been feeling a bit off before he'd come over, stiff neck etc, and turns out he had a mild case of shingles (he's had them before, so is pretty sure). I currently have a pretty much non-functioning immune system. Chicken pox (and therefore shingles) is one of the things on the list of things to tell my doctor if I come in contact with. I have felt absolutely punk today. I could just about cry at this point.
Also, things I could have done with knowing a little sooner than five days later.
I clicked “like” for support, but would rather have a (((hugs))) button.
Thank you
Shingles were an anxiety over-reaction. Everything else is holding, though have had a couple of days of feeling incredibly punk. Okay yesterday and today, ish. Comparatively a lot better!! It's cooler today, which helps. Though, what fricking rain????1 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I have no animal pictures to share - we're more dog than cat people, and don't have the right environment or time for the dog we'd love (Alaska malamute)....
I had terrible luck with kittens when I was younger - I had 3 at separate times, (willow, catkin and champagne)... They all ended up getting out and meeting their fate on the road. Champagne used to be our dogs best friend (a giant newfoundland called Nelson) - they would chase each other round the garden and sleep curled up together.
On topic.... Is it weird if I am getting antsy about still eating at maintenance? I just want to see how I react to deficit again! Haha. I shouldn't complain, I'm enjoying the extra carbs.
Nony, I'm with you on the heat - we've had a few days in the mid-30s. Urgh. Going outside is awful - I had been enjoying jogs/walks to the shops, but it's even too warm at 7/8am for that.
So sorry about your kitten losses.
And no, it’s not weird at all to fear maintenance. I still do and I’ve been in maintenance for three years. Geez, you’d think I’d be a little better about being mentally stable, but ... NOPE! “What if I get fat again” is an annoying little voice in the back of my head.
I am working on a recomp and trying to maintain a small 150-250 cal/day deficit. Shifting from maintenance back to a small deficit is a mental challenge. Hard not to go all-out after those years of deficit for weight loss.
Inspired by all the spreadsheet talk I e begun one to track and compare data incoming diet, macros, TDEE and exercise/steps. Nothing fancy no determining standard deviation or using regression (dear God, if I even mention running this through SPSS will someone please reach out through the internet and slap me?). Just some tracking with some line graphs in another month or so with enough data points.
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