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Can you call an ambulance for somebody without their consent?
Replies
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Thanks, that's the bit that didn't seem to stack up.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Thanks, that's the bit that didn't seem to stack up.
Yeah...as a volunteer paramedic we aren't as picky about our clientele as the anti-capitalists would like you to believe. The expenses simply go to one of the various government funds.3 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Thanks, that's the bit that didn't seem to stack up.
Yeah...as a volunteer paramedic we aren't as picky about our clientele as the anti-capitalists would like you to believe. The expenses simply go to one of the various government funds.
And here I thought you would scan them for items you could pawn if they didn't have a wad of cash on them.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Yes, but beforehand, they often will send to collections and then sue you. If you truly have no money, that is fine... but with a judgement from the court, they will take the money if you ever work again or if you ever get money somehow. The only way to get away from it is bankruptcy, and a staggering number of personal bankruptcy cases result from medical bills.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Yes, but beforehand, they often will send to collections and then sue you. If you truly have no money, that is fine... but with a judgement from the court, they will take the money if you ever work again or if you ever get money somehow. The only way to get away from it is bankruptcy, and a staggering number of personal bankruptcy cases result from medical bills.
And that is normally in the case of serious or rare diseases/injuries.....not an ambulance ride. It's the same reason the ER is so busy on the weekend from walk-ins. They know the system, they can't be denied service and most likely will never be on the hook for the bill.
3 -
yeah you can call for any one... I had to phone for my mom last Saturday. my mom said no ambulance but she kept passing out. so she wasn't in any condition to say no.. she will thank me later plus she doesn't remember anything1
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happytree923 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »I might chime in....
I am American and proud to be an American. But, I find it somewhat funny that we are worried about "legal issues" with this type of situation. And, then on top of that, civil liability.
The OP did the right thing. Absolutely. I mean, you never know and there could be internal injuries that we can not see/readily identify. And we all have likely seen someone in shock before....they can NOT make any decisions. How badly would you feel if you did nothing and something bad happened to that person, something that *could* have been avoided?
I am admittedly ignorant as to the laws here (in North Carolina) as to who pays for what but I have seen - three different times - a person faint or pass out and someone did the right thing and called 911 and the Police and EMT came and - in each event - the person denied service. Their reason (in all three cases): I ain't paying that bill!
So, is this a medical system issue or a legal issue? Or, both?
I don't have that answer. Or, any answer, for that matter. I am more conservative in nature *BUT* I did live in Germany for several years. Not sure. I just find it a bit silly that we are worried about legal responsibility here. And, not picking on the OP. Absolutely not. She absolutely did the right thing. To me, that should not even be a question as to what to do (you call 100 times out of 100 - without hesitation or being prompted to do something....seconds can make a difference).
So, this is a very interesting thread to me.
I grew up in California and I know of a lot of EMT Service Providers that go out of business because no one ever pays. Not siding with them....just sharing that information.
I really and truly look forward to other's comments....
I really think that Americans get so scared of legal liability BECAUSE our healthcare costs are so high. If someone breaks your rib doing chest compressions, but you live in a country with a single payer system, that broken rib costs you almost nothing as far as medical care. If you also have paid sick leave how on earth are you going to claim financial damage from the chest compressions?
Healthcare costs are high because of the the legal liability/contingent fee lawyers. Oh and you know Congress is the American Bar Association's *kitten*.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »I might chime in....
I am American and proud to be an American. But, I find it somewhat funny that we are worried about "legal issues" with this type of situation. And, then on top of that, civil liability.
The OP did the right thing. Absolutely. I mean, you never know and there could be internal injuries that we can not see/readily identify. And we all have likely seen someone in shock before....they can NOT make any decisions. How badly would you feel if you did nothing and something bad happened to that person, something that *could* have been avoided?
I am admittedly ignorant as to the laws here (in North Carolina) as to who pays for what but I have seen - three different times - a person faint or pass out and someone did the right thing and called 911 and the Police and EMT came and - in each event - the person denied service. Their reason (in all three cases): I ain't paying that bill!
So, is this a medical system issue or a legal issue? Or, both?
I don't have that answer. Or, any answer, for that matter. I am more conservative in nature *BUT* I did live in Germany for several years. Not sure. I just find it a bit silly that we are worried about legal responsibility here. And, not picking on the OP. Absolutely not. She absolutely did the right thing. To me, that should not even be a question as to what to do (you call 100 times out of 100 - without hesitation or being prompted to do something....seconds can make a difference).
So, this is a very interesting thread to me.
I grew up in California and I know of a lot of EMT Service Providers that go out of business because no one ever pays. Not siding with them....just sharing that information.
I really and truly look forward to other's comments....
I really think that Americans get so scared of legal liability BECAUSE our healthcare costs are so high. If someone breaks your rib doing chest compressions, but you live in a country with a single payer system, that broken rib costs you almost nothing as far as medical care. If you also have paid sick leave how on earth are you going to claim financial damage from the chest compressions?
Healthcare costs are high because of the the legal liability/contingent fee lawyers. Oh and you know Congress is the American Bar Association's *kitten*.
And because the medical insurance industry is in bed with the medical and pharmacological industries. But that's a deep, deep dive.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Yes, but beforehand, they often will send to collections and then sue you. If you truly have no money, that is fine... but with a judgement from the court, they will take the money if you ever work again or if you ever get money somehow. The only way to get away from it is bankruptcy, and a staggering number of personal bankruptcy cases result from medical bills.
And that is normally in the case of serious or rare diseases/injuries.....not an ambulance ride. It's the same reason the ER is so busy on the weekend from walk-ins. They know the system, they can't be denied service and most likely will never be on the hook for the bill.
Or, they've been putting off going to the doctor for something that *might* get better on its own, and it didn't, and it eventually develops into something that's emergency-level. (And/or they don't have a primary care doctor because unless you have insurance that covers it, maintenance and checkup care are still bills you have to pay, and why pay that bill if you aren't sick?)3 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Max_Adams25 wrote: »Cant believe you have to pay to use ambulance. Crazy country
You're still paying for it. It's just taken out in advance.
Out of sight out of mind.
Technically yes, but if you've not been fortunate enough to earn the money to pay in through your taxes you still have full access.
So do people in the states....
It's not like they run your insurance and do a credit check before you go. If you honestly can't pay, that will usually end up going to the state in some way/shape/form.
Thanks, that's the bit that didn't seem to stack up.
Yeah...as a volunteer paramedic we aren't as picky about our clientele as the anti-capitalists would like you to believe. The expenses simply go to one of the various government funds.
You guys have government funds? In my state the hospital just has to eat the loss. They are legally barred from collecting medical debt in court, so typically sell the debt for pennies on the dollar to debt collectors who write a lot of threatening notes which can't be enforced. If the patient has credit of course outstanding medical debt will wreck it, but most people going to the ER because they can't afford treatment are past being afraid their credit will be hurt.0 -
Also, you can call but you can't MAKE the person go. They can get checked over by the EMTs and then decline the ride.0
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Dude was already in a cast and using a walker and he got hit by a car. Poor guy.1
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Packerjohn wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »I might chime in....
I am American and proud to be an American. But, I find it somewhat funny that we are worried about "legal issues" with this type of situation. And, then on top of that, civil liability.
The OP did the right thing. Absolutely. I mean, you never know and there could be internal injuries that we can not see/readily identify. And we all have likely seen someone in shock before....they can NOT make any decisions. How badly would you feel if you did nothing and something bad happened to that person, something that *could* have been avoided?
I am admittedly ignorant as to the laws here (in North Carolina) as to who pays for what but I have seen - three different times - a person faint or pass out and someone did the right thing and called 911 and the Police and EMT came and - in each event - the person denied service. Their reason (in all three cases): I ain't paying that bill!
So, is this a medical system issue or a legal issue? Or, both?
I don't have that answer. Or, any answer, for that matter. I am more conservative in nature *BUT* I did live in Germany for several years. Not sure. I just find it a bit silly that we are worried about legal responsibility here. And, not picking on the OP. Absolutely not. She absolutely did the right thing. To me, that should not even be a question as to what to do (you call 100 times out of 100 - without hesitation or being prompted to do something....seconds can make a difference).
So, this is a very interesting thread to me.
I grew up in California and I know of a lot of EMT Service Providers that go out of business because no one ever pays. Not siding with them....just sharing that information.
I really and truly look forward to other's comments....
I really think that Americans get so scared of legal liability BECAUSE our healthcare costs are so high. If someone breaks your rib doing chest compressions, but you live in a country with a single payer system, that broken rib costs you almost nothing as far as medical care. If you also have paid sick leave how on earth are you going to claim financial damage from the chest compressions?
Healthcare costs are high because of the the legal liability/contingent fee lawyers. Oh and you know Congress is the American Bar Association's *kitten*.
And because the medical insurance industry is in bed with the medical and pharmacological industries. But that's a deep, deep dive.
It's a toxic insertion of insurance first, then government, then industries which profit from this exchange.
Who would've thought that deliberately inserting middle-men without checks and balances would raise cost?4 -
canadianlbs wrote: »op, just to say i like your consideration for the guy's global picture even while you were so concerned about his safety/health. can't say anything about the legalities in america though.
in canada ambulance is a private service, NOT covered as a 'doctor or hospital service'. so an unexpected 85 bucks can be a big surprise to some people's budget.
just looked it up and here in Ontario it is only $45 that is not covered by OHIP (the provincial health insurance plan) - good to know!0
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