Is dairy actually bad for you?
Replies
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I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.14 -
It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.27 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »savedbygrace1007 wrote: »Watch the documentary Forks over knives
Forks Over Knives isn't a "documentary". It's a biased, one-sided hack job with an agenda, filled with junk science and half-truths.
If I'm going to watch fiction, I at least want it to be enjoyable.
Your opinion.
There is a quite science behind those movements. It is reckless to get the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-productsConclusions
Milk and dairy products are not necessary in the diet and can, in fact, be harmful to health. It is best to consume a healthful diet of grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, and fortified foods including cereals and juices. These nutrient-dense foods can help you meet your calcium, potassium, riboflavin, and vitamin D requirements with ease—and without facing the health risks associated with dairy product consumption.
There is a word for a clearly and unapologetically agenda driven piece which presents only data that supports a desired view while conveniently disregarding all others: propaganda.
Propaganda works wonders on people who need little convincing anyway, but to those who can think critically it's obvious and gratuitous.
To tag everything you don't like as propaganda, that's silly. I am not in the animal suffering or planet saving thing, but there are good part of science in this vegan movement.
Want it or not, and as an example, there is a scientific link between breast cancer and the consumption of dairies.
And also reported by Harvard University, milk vs prostate cancer. There are many other downsides of dairies consumption that people don't even suspect.
I consume 4-5 oz weekly of Feta cheese in my spinach salad, that's about it.
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paperpudding wrote: »I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.
Well, he probably shouldn’t.0 -
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The African Tutsis revolve their culture around their cattle and staple foods include butter and soured milk.2
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
Most animals, when given the chance, will drink another animal's milk.
Pretty sure I saw an article.about a cat suckling hedgehogs.
I didn’t see it, but I’d bet they were baby hedgehogs.0 -
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
False. All of it.15 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »If you're allergic to it and are lactose intolerant...otherwise, dairy is fine. I eat a moderate amount of dairy everyday and have no issues.
Right! I don't have any food allergies, but I'm just so curious as to why people assume it is my dairy intake. Because I do get this comment a lot. And it's not like I eat obscene amounts of it either. But thank you! I appreciate your reply.
Because it's a common allergen, and many people are lactose intolerant (some don't know it!). That's why dairy is one of the first thing to eliminate when you're troubleshooting for allergy. Developing new allergies is not too rare. I developed a mild egg allergy as an adult even though I've been eating them my whole life. Dairy is not bad for you, but if you're allergic it can be bad for you, just like any other allergen. It's not the dairy's fault, it's your immune system.
Now, just because people jump to the most logical to them conclusion doesn't mean it's true for you. Have you introduced any new foods or started eating more of certain foods? Increasing vegetable intake comes to mind - takes a while to get used to the increased fiber.3 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
Heard it all before except for this one: how does sweetening prevent "absorbing" the bacterial culture? Do you get the same antibacterial effect if you eat unsweetened yogurt with fruits?5 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
False. All of it.
Although some of the things I said might not be entirely true, I doubt everything I learned in nutrition school is "false". A lot of the information I provided is based on scientific evidence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26258087
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27837978
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/1/6/6ra14.full18 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
Heard it all before except for this one: how does sweetening prevent "absorbing" the bacterial culture? Do you get the same antibacterial effect if you eat unsweetened yogurt with fruits?
Guess I should've worded it better. I'm mainly referring to the artificially flavored vanilla/fruit yogurts with tons of added sugar in them. Bad gut bacteria thrives when it's exposed to a lot of sugar which decreases the effectiveness of the probiotics/good bacteria. Some of it still may be absorbed, but not as much as if you were to eat the unsweetend version. Adding some sliced up bananas or a bit of dark chocolate to unsweetened yogurt would not be as detrimental as the refined sugar in flavored yogurts especially because fruit and cocoa contain prebiotics which increases the effectiveness of the probiotics.16 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
False. All of it.
Although some of the things I said might not be entirely true, I doubt everything I learned in nutrition school is "false". A lot of the information I provided is based on scientific evidence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26258087
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27837978
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/1/6/6ra14.full
Then why did you say them if you admit they’re not entirely true?11 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
Heard it all before except for this one: how does sweetening prevent "absorbing" the bacterial culture? Do you get the same antibacterial effect if you eat unsweetened yogurt with fruits?
Guess I should've worded it better. I'm mainly referring to the artificially flavored vanilla/fruit yogurts with tons of added sugar in them. Bad gut bacteria thrives when it's exposed to a lot of sugar which decreases the effectiveness of the probiotics/good bacteria. Some of it still may be absorbed, but not as much as if you were to eat the unsweetend version. Adding some sliced up bananas or a bit of dark chocolate to unsweetened yogurt would not be as detrimental as the refined sugar in flavored yogurts especially because fruit and cocoa contain prebiotics which increases the effectiveness of the probiotics.
Making this up as you go?
Btw, probiotics live in the gut. They don’t need to be “absorbed” by it.14 -
Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WHY do we consume cow's and goat's and sheep's milk? Rather obviously because we can and in some areas learned it was a good source of calories and also a way to preserve food (cheese, fermented milk, as well as simply having the animals around for something other than their meat).
Same reason we farm, even though cats (for one example) cannot, and why we can foods and smoke foods and otherwise preserve foods, even though cats cannot. Cats do other things (like convince us we should care for them).
Like most animals that do not consume milk after baby-hood, cats become lactose intolerant as adults, but if they were given it regularly they probably would retain the ability to digest it (and this would apply to cow's milk too), and some cats aren't lactose intolerant. I would not give a cat milk, but given all the lore about cats and milk I wonder if back in the day when they were given it more regularly if more did not develop intolerance as adults.
In any case, we KNOW that humans have developed lactose tolerance as adults (not all, but the vast majority from areas where consuming milk has long been common, which includes north and western Europe). You can even test for the relevant genes if you want to. So saying animals that are lactose intolerant as adults do badly with milk (and would with milk from their own species too) is not a sensible reason to say that humans who ARE lactose tolerant would do badly with it.
What my boi anth professor told us way that most people have some degree of lactose intolerance. Maybe not enough to make them ill, but enough to cause them some discomfort, or some mostly unnoticed problems to their digestion. I think this article has the number at 61 percent being intolerant. I love cheese, but I treat it like alcohol and eat it in moderation. My boyfriend can chug those expensive full fat yogurts. No fair.
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2005/06/lactose-intolerance-linked-ancestral-struggles-climate-diseases
I suspect that figure is a bit misleading - yes, I can well believe that 61% of the worlds humans have some lactose intolerance.
But that would be because most asian people are lactose intolerant (as adults) and asian people make up the largest racial group in the world.
A much lower percentage of caucasian people are lactose intolerant - of course there are some, and it occurs to various degrees and increases in the older population - ie people who were not previously lactose intolerant can develop a degree of it when older.
If OP is getting symptoms of bloating, bowel issues, nausea etc - then, yes, worth a try of eliminating dairy for a few weeks and see if this helps - even if not previously intolerant.
But no need for everyone who is tolerating dairy fine, to quit consuming it - either for weight loss or any other biological reason (non-physical ethical choice reasons aside)
Oh, you are right. I was thinking that Asians count. Gosh, wonder where my half Asian son falls.
I'm half Korean and I drink about a half gallon of whole milk a day. No issues. My son from my first marriage is 1/4 Asian and can drink milk no issues. My mother is full Korean and can drink milk with no issues. My wife is Chinese and she and her entire family can drink milk with no issues... If that helps.
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Carlos_421 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
Heard it all before except for this one: how does sweetening prevent "absorbing" the bacterial culture? Do you get the same antibacterial effect if you eat unsweetened yogurt with fruits?
Guess I should've worded it better. I'm mainly referring to the artificially flavored vanilla/fruit yogurts with tons of added sugar in them. Bad gut bacteria thrives when it's exposed to a lot of sugar which decreases the effectiveness of the probiotics/good bacteria. Some of it still may be absorbed, but not as much as if you were to eat the unsweetend version. Adding some sliced up bananas or a bit of dark chocolate to unsweetened yogurt would not be as detrimental as the refined sugar in flavored yogurts especially because fruit and cocoa contain prebiotics which increases the effectiveness of the probiotics.
Making this up as you go?
Btw, probiotics live in the gut. They don’t need to be “absorbed” by it.
My first language isn't English. Sorry about the confusion7 -
I’ve mentioned this before on milk threads and as I recall I did not get an adequate response. Ants herd aphids on to plants and “milk” them for the honeydew.8
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jseams1234 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WHY do we consume cow's and goat's and sheep's milk? Rather obviously because we can and in some areas learned it was a good source of calories and also a way to preserve food (cheese, fermented milk, as well as simply having the animals around for something other than their meat).
Same reason we farm, even though cats (for one example) cannot, and why we can foods and smoke foods and otherwise preserve foods, even though cats cannot. Cats do other things (like convince us we should care for them).
Like most animals that do not consume milk after baby-hood, cats become lactose intolerant as adults, but if they were given it regularly they probably would retain the ability to digest it (and this would apply to cow's milk too), and some cats aren't lactose intolerant. I would not give a cat milk, but given all the lore about cats and milk I wonder if back in the day when they were given it more regularly if more did not develop intolerance as adults.
In any case, we KNOW that humans have developed lactose tolerance as adults (not all, but the vast majority from areas where consuming milk has long been common, which includes north and western Europe). You can even test for the relevant genes if you want to. So saying animals that are lactose intolerant as adults do badly with milk (and would with milk from their own species too) is not a sensible reason to say that humans who ARE lactose tolerant would do badly with it.
What my boi anth professor told us way that most people have some degree of lactose intolerance. Maybe not enough to make them ill, but enough to cause them some discomfort, or some mostly unnoticed problems to their digestion. I think this article has the number at 61 percent being intolerant. I love cheese, but I treat it like alcohol and eat it in moderation. My boyfriend can chug those expensive full fat yogurts. No fair.
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2005/06/lactose-intolerance-linked-ancestral-struggles-climate-diseases
I suspect that figure is a bit misleading - yes, I can well believe that 61% of the worlds humans have some lactose intolerance.
But that would be because most asian people are lactose intolerant (as adults) and asian people make up the largest racial group in the world.
A much lower percentage of caucasian people are lactose intolerant - of course there are some, and it occurs to various degrees and increases in the older population - ie people who were not previously lactose intolerant can develop a degree of it when older.
If OP is getting symptoms of bloating, bowel issues, nausea etc - then, yes, worth a try of eliminating dairy for a few weeks and see if this helps - even if not previously intolerant.
But no need for everyone who is tolerating dairy fine, to quit consuming it - either for weight loss or any other biological reason (non-physical ethical choice reasons aside)
Oh, you are right. I was thinking that Asians count. Gosh, wonder where my half Asian son falls.
I'm half Korean and I drink about a half gallon of whole milk a day. No issues. My son from my first marriage is 1/4 Asian and can drink milk no issues. My mother is full Korean and can drink milk with no issues. My wife is Chinese and she and her entire family can drink milk with no issues... If that helps.
How nice for you and your family! Many Asians aren’t so lucky. My son is Cambodian and it sometimes makes him sick. He still risks it tho
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
This doesn't even make sense. 100+ years ago consumers were being defrauded by the sale of "milk" that was just chalk dissolved in water, but that was before milk was regulated. And even if it were still happening, chalk is a mineral -- it doesn't come with hormones. Why would someone trying to pass off chalky water as milk bother mixing in hormones at an added cost?
And if something is "surpassing" digestion, then it would just pass out of the body as waste, not be absorbed more readily. (I see this fallacy all the time on here, more typically in the form of "X is unnatural, so our bodies don't recognize it and can't digest it, and therefore it gets stored as fat." No, it doesn't work that way. No absorbing or storing if it resists digestion.)
If rBGH is banned in a country, what's the point in checking the label? If a manufacturer is using milk from cows illegally dosed with rBGH, I doubt they would admit it on the label.
I tend to prefer plain yogurt myself, but do you have any proof of your claim that sweetened yogurt somehow blocks your intestines from "absorbing" the bacterial cultures (which isn't really what happens; the bacteria colonizes your gut -- if your intestines "absorbed" them, they would move into your blood stream, and do you no good from a digestive standpoint). If you have a piece of fruit with your plain yogurt, does that negate the value of the bacteria? Why is the sugar in the fruit different? What about the naturally occurring sugar in the yogurt (6 to 9 grams per cup in plain, traditional - i.e., unstrained -- yogurts in my refrigerator right now? Why is that sugar different?15 -
suzannesimmons3 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
Most animals, when given the chance, will drink another animal's milk.
Pretty sure I saw an article.about a cat suckling hedgehogs.
I didn’t see it, but I’d bet they were baby hedgehogs.
https://youtu.be/jBB6pIfts7Y
For a while there I thought they might need to call in a lactation specialist for the one on the left, who seemed to be having some trouble latching on.1 -
Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.
Well, he probably shouldn’t.
Well, obviously he shouldnt.
Just like people who are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume diary.
But my point was that I don't extrapolate from 'my husband is allergic to cats' to 'nobody should have a cat'
That would be silly and ridiculous.
Just like extrapolating from 'Some people are lactose intolerant' to 'Nobody should consume dairy' is silly and ridiculous.
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paperpudding wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.
Well, he probably shouldn’t.
Well, obviously he shouldnt.
Just like people who are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume diary.
But my point was that I don't extrapolate from 'my husband is allergic to cats' to 'nobody should have a cat'
That would be silly and ridiculous.
Just like extrapolating from 'Some people are lactose intolerant' to 'Nobody should consume dairy' is silly and ridiculous.
No one else is extrapolating that either.. just that lactose problems are more common than most people realize, and it’s worth cutting it out for awhile to see. Actually, I think cat allergy and other allergies are more common than a lot of ppl realize too. I didn’t find out I have moderate pollen allergies until I was in my mid thirties. I just thought I had “sinus issues,”4 -
Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.
Well, he probably shouldn’t.
Well, obviously he shouldnt.
Just like people who are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume diary.
But my point was that I don't extrapolate from 'my husband is allergic to cats' to 'nobody should have a cat'
That would be silly and ridiculous.
Just like extrapolating from 'Some people are lactose intolerant' to 'Nobody should consume dairy' is silly and ridiculous.
No one else is extrapolating that either.. just that lactose problems are more common than most people realize, and it’s worth cutting it out for awhile to see. Actually, I think cat allergy and other allergies are more common than a lot of ppl realize too. I didn’t find out I have moderate pollen allergies until I was in my mid thirties. I just thought I had “sinus issues,”
Well, no, you were asserting that even people (no matter what their background) should assume that they likely have a problem with lactose based on the claim that "most" people do. That's not accurate. In many places and among people of many backgrounds, being lactose intolerance (and a bad reaction to milk) is quite rare. Intolerance to cheese and yogurt is less common still. (And many adults who have no lactose issues still don't consume much milk. I know I don't. So the idea that I should worry that I might have an undiagnosed lactose issue seems really odd.)
It's true that lactose intolerance is not uncommon, so if I thought someone had a reaction to some food and was trouble-shooting, checking out dairy as a culprit would not be a bad idea, but that's different from what you said, which is that most people have unknown issues so should try cutting it out.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
This doesn't even make sense. 100+ years ago consumers were being defrauded by the sale of "milk" that was just chalk dissolved in water, but that was before milk was regulated. And even if it were still happening, chalk is a mineral -- it doesn't come with hormones. Why would someone trying to pass off chalky water as milk bother mixing in hormones at an added cost?
I think the poster meant "chock full of hormones," but that led me to wonder why someone not a native speaker would use a folksy turn of phrase that isn't all that common and sounds rather weird, and it struck me that I'd seen that usage before and searched and, yep, as expected, a LOT of the bad information dairy scare sites use exactly that language. You can very often tell that someone is parroting some website from the use of jargony sounding language. Another example I've seen and that bugs me is everyone going on about foods being "just packed with" something -- that's not a natural way of talking outside diet sites, but seems really common on them, and is a good sign of where someone is getting their information.
I'm trying to figure out how homogenizing milk makes it easy to avoid digesting fat. Seems to make skim milk kind of unnecessary, no, as whole but homogenized would have the same calories. Of course, that's nonsense.And if something is "surpassing" digestion, then it would just pass out of the body as waste, not be absorbed more readily. (I see this fallacy all the time on here, more typically in the form of "X is unnatural, so our bodies don't recognize it and can't digest it, and therefore it gets stored as fat." No, it doesn't work that way. No absorbing or storing if it resists digestion.)
So much this. Drives me crazy.If rBGH is banned in a country, what's the point in checking the label? If a manufacturer is using milk from cows illegally dosed with rBGH, I doubt they would admit it on the label.
I tend to prefer plain yogurt myself, but do you have any proof of your claim that sweetened yogurt somehow blocks your intestines from "absorbing" the bacterial cultures (which isn't really what happens; the bacteria colonizes your gut -- if your intestines "absorbed" them, they would move into your blood stream, and do you no good from a digestive standpoint). If you have a piece of fruit with your plain yogurt, does that negate the value of the bacteria? Why is the sugar in the fruit different? What about the naturally occurring sugar in the yogurt (6 to 9 grams per cup in plain, traditional - i.e., unstrained -- yogurts in my refrigerator right now? Why is that sugar different?
Yes, exactly. I hope you get responses to your questions.11 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I have mentioned in these threads before that my husband is allergic to cats - gets runny nose, itchy rash, sneezing, weepy eyes.
Above is a fact.
Therefore nobody should have a pet cat - Not a fact.
Well, he probably shouldn’t.
Well, obviously he shouldnt.
Just like people who are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume diary.
But my point was that I don't extrapolate from 'my husband is allergic to cats' to 'nobody should have a cat'
That would be silly and ridiculous.
Just like extrapolating from 'Some people are lactose intolerant' to 'Nobody should consume dairy' is silly and ridiculous.
No one else is extrapolating that either.. just that lactose problems are more common than most people realize, and it’s worth cutting it out for awhile to see. Actually, I think cat allergy and other allergies are more common than a lot of ppl realize too. I didn’t find out I have moderate pollen allergies until I was in my mid thirties. I just thought I had “sinus issues,”
Well, no, you were asserting that even people (no matter what their background) should assume that they likely have a problem with lactose based on the claim that "most" people do. That's not accurate. In many places and among people of many backgrounds, being lactose intolerance (and a bad reaction to milk) is quite rare. Intolerance to cheese and yogurt is less common still. (And many adults who have no lactose issues still don't consume much milk. I know I don't. So the idea that I should worry that I might have an undiagnosed lactose issue seems really odd.)
It's true that lactose intolerance is not uncommon, so if I thought someone had a reaction to some food and was trouble-shooting, checking out dairy as a culprit would not be a bad idea, but that's different from what you said, which is that most people have unknown issues so should try cutting it out.
I didn’t say that all. You added a whole lot of things and made a lot of assumptions. I can’t imagine why you are so worked up.10 -
If I weren't aware that that's a common internet discussion tactic that some seem to think is somehow helpful, I'd ask how you could read that post as worked up. But it's okay, I get it.11
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »If I weren't aware that that's a common internet discussion tactic that some seem to think is somehow helpful, I'd ask how you could read that post as worked up. But it's okay, I get it.
A lot of exaggerated examples, and putting words in my mouth. I never said no one should eat dairy. It’s just that lactose intolerance is a lot more common than ppl realized. All of this soy and almond milk stuff is relatively new. I’m 36, and I had no clue that I have problems with lactose until I cut it out for my son’s sake. I never knew anything different, so I just figured my issues were normal. I didn’t throw up or get hives, but I had bloating, gas, and some nausea. I’m sure it’s the same for plenty of other people. And I still eat cheese lol.9 -
You may not have quite asserted that nobody should eat dairy - but you are asserting that many people have undiagnosed lactose intolerance which I don't agree is the case.
There were also other posters who did say nobody should eat dairy - my analogy about cat allergy was directed to the thread in general.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.
I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.
This doesn't even make sense. 100+ years ago consumers were being defrauded by the sale of "milk" that was just chalk dissolved in water, but that was before milk was regulated. And even if it were still happening, chalk is a mineral -- it doesn't come with hormones. Why would someone trying to pass off chalky water as milk bother mixing in hormones at an added cost?
I think the poster meant "chock full of hormones," but that led me to wonder why someone not a native speaker would use a folksy turn of phrase that isn't all that common and sounds rather weird, and it struck me that I'd seen that usage before and searched and, yep, as expected, a LOT of the bad information dairy scare sites use exactly that language. You can very often tell that someone is parroting some website from the use of jargony sounding language. Another example I've seen and that bugs me is everyone going on about foods being "just packed with" something -- that's not a natural way of talking outside diet sites, but seems really common on them, and is a good sign of where someone is getting their information.
I'm trying to figure out how homogenizing milk makes it easy to avoid digesting fat. Seems to make skim milk kind of unnecessary, no, as whole but homogenized would have the same calories. Of course, that's nonsense.And if something is "surpassing" digestion, then it would just pass out of the body as waste, not be absorbed more readily. (I see this fallacy all the time on here, more typically in the form of "X is unnatural, so our bodies don't recognize it and can't digest it, and therefore it gets stored as fat." No, it doesn't work that way. No absorbing or storing if it resists digestion.)
So much this. Drives me crazy.If rBGH is banned in a country, what's the point in checking the label? If a manufacturer is using milk from cows illegally dosed with rBGH, I doubt they would admit it on the label.
I tend to prefer plain yogurt myself, but do you have any proof of your claim that sweetened yogurt somehow blocks your intestines from "absorbing" the bacterial cultures (which isn't really what happens; the bacteria colonizes your gut -- if your intestines "absorbed" them, they would move into your blood stream, and do you no good from a digestive standpoint). If you have a piece of fruit with your plain yogurt, does that negate the value of the bacteria? Why is the sugar in the fruit different? What about the naturally occurring sugar in the yogurt (6 to 9 grams per cup in plain, traditional - i.e., unstrained -- yogurts in my refrigerator right now? Why is that sugar different?
Yes, exactly. I hope you get responses to your questions.
Thanks on the "chalk" for "chock" possibility -- I missed that, probably because I have that odd bit of trivia about chalk and milk from the turn of the last century stuck in my brain. But I think your interpretation of what the poster meant is probably more reasonable. Maybe he/she will come back and clarify.5
This discussion has been closed.
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