3 Ingredient Healthy Cookies!
Replies
-
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
Others may find that information interesting as well so go ahead and post it here. If it gets too debate-y, we can ask the mods to move the thread to Debate.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
I'm sure they're behind the push to decrease meat consumption?6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
The meat industry is so deep in the nutrtitional board that the only food group that has a recommendation of "you should eat at least this much, more is better" is vegetables.6 -
if i want a cookie, ill have a cookie.
but i have food issues.
if i want a mashed banana ill have a mashed banana
lolol 2 -
Im not gonna sugar coat this...........they are vile!
we made them after my aunty shared them on facebook..........even the dog refused to eat them
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
I suggested no such thing, and don't really care about government recommendations because I don't think they're high enough for the populations I've mentioned due to the research I've read.
Muscle mass is important, and protein is important for retaining muscle mass for active, dieting, and aging individuals.
The current government recommendations according to independent scientific research on the populations I mentioned are only adequate for sedentary individuals, regardless of whatever conspiracy the meat industry has in their making.
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »To touch on the "research non-biased parties to determine why we don't need very much protein" line, I am not aware of any non-biased sources making this claim. All the sources I've seen promoting this type of diet are promoting diets free of animal products (not all who promote plant-based and/or vegan diets make this claim, but everyone I've seen making this claim is promoting that type of diet).
This isn't to say that they're *wrong*. One can have a bias and also be sharing correct information, but to promote them as a bias-free source wouldn't be accurate. One should be thoughtful when evaluating the claims of those with a bias and just because someone is promoting the opposite of what someone with a bias (or what you perceive as a bias) is claiming, you can't assume they are somehow bias-free.
If you would like more information I could type something up...just private message me. I also agree I think if someone is selling something they are not credible, I.E. someone with a agenda to turn the world into whatever diet.
Side note...I never named a research study, I mentioned non-bias sources I have read studies from. So you can't say that I was promoting anything inaccurately at all. But thanks so much for the reply!
We don't need to do this over PM, you can share your sources here.
If you aren't referring to a particular "research study," let me know what you're referring to. I'm not saying there are not any non-biased sources out there telling people they only need 10% protein (there could be), I'm just saying I've never encountered an organization saying that when they also were not attempting to persuade people to adopt veganism or reduce the amount of animal products in their diet.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.
Most importantly, we have different digestive tracts.
Because we're omnivores. Not herbivores like elephants. We can't digest plant matter as well as them. And gorillas, while mostly eating plants, also eat bugs and stuff, rich in protein.
Now, THAT'S something that has science to back it up.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.
Most importantly, we have different digestive tracts.
Because we're omnivores. Not herbivores like elephants. We can't digest plant matter as well as them. And gorillas, while mostly eating plants, also eat bugs and stuff, rich in protein.
Now, THAT'S something that has science to back it up.
Yes, that is one of the most vital differences. I should have called it out.
You simply can't compare diet and how it relates to body composition between animals with different digestive tracts.
We aren't gorillas and we aren't elephants.
For the example of gorillas specifically (because I see them frequently cited by the "we don't need much protein" crowd), they have a longer digestive tract and they also eat much more protein than we might assume. In addition to bugs, they're eating things like wild nettles, a plant that has about 3 grams of protein per 100 grams. That may not sound like much, but when you consider that a gorilla may eat 40 pounds of food a day, that can come out to 500 grams of protein for a gorilla *per day*. This is not a low protein diet.
0 -
The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
12 -
Side note: To whoever mentioned that everyone now attributes cancer and meat consumption from a stupid documentary. Touche. But isn't it funny how the American Cancer Society has more recently named Processed meat as a carcinogen, in the same category as smoking!? Crazy huh!!
4 -
The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Support for veganism or eating more plants isn't the same thing as promoting a low protein diet. You're conflating the two things. That an organization promotes veganism or acknowledges that a healthful vegan diet is possible isn't the same thing as the recommendation for a low protein diet.
The WHO recommendation is what is recommended to avoid health problems and outright deficiency. To use it a guide for what active people who have access to more food choices should eat is misleading.
Breast milk is for humans at a very specific stage of life. There is no evidence that it is an appropriate long-term food for anyone post-infancy, so to use it as a guide for a "perfect human food" is to make an assumption that isn't supported by any evidence (unless there are studies showing what happens when adults try to live long-term on breast milk or a food that is based on the composition of breast milk).
I'm not sure where you learned that humans cannot eat raw meat, but that isn't accurate information. It's true that many humans *prefer* cooked meat, but there are cultures that eat meats or certain meats in an uncooked state. Even in the West where the consumption of raw meat is relatively rare, you will find people who enjoy beef tartare or sashimi, foods that are mostly uncooked meat. In some cultures, the drinking of animal blood (uncooked) is also common.
Let's discuss this without conflating veganism and a low protein vegan diet. They aren't the same thing -- it's possible for people to be vegan and get more than 10% of their calories from protein and when you look at recommendations from science-based vegan professionals, this is overwhelmingly what they recommend, especially for people who want to build or retain muscle.5 -
We can and do eat raw meat. See steak tartare and sushi. Steak tartare even includes a raw egg! Imagine! My poor intestines!
And my protein recommendations have never ever ever come from state advice (and I say state because i'm in the UK, welcome to a worldwide site, not all of us live in the US). The only thing I see heavily pushed here is fruit and veg minimums funnily enough. And those changed this year from 5 servings a day to 10. So weird when we're all in big meat and dairy's pocket.
You STILL haven't provided and sources or links to what you think proves your points. Infographics don't count, particularly ones produced by someone with a clear bias.3 -
I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?5 -
I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
This is what you said earlier after sharing your macros: "I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet."
If you didn't mean to be talking about other people, "you" may not have been the best word choice there.
Later you write "I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement."
So it appears you're adjusting it even lower, but if you aren't meaning to give specific targets, I understand that. It makes your posts rather confusing though.
If you're comparing the consumption of raw meat to smoking, then I'm going to ask what that is based on. Are there studies that show an increase in cancer in populations that commonly eat raw meat that has been linked or associated with that particular habit? I'm not aware of any, so I'm curious as to what you base this statement on.
Either way, it has nothing to do with your earlier claim that we *cannot* eat raw meat that we need to cook it in order to digest it. That simply isn't true, so now you're just making a new claim -- that eating raw meat will cause cancer. Please don't just move the goalposts, let's focus on your initial claim.
Will you at least acknowledge that you're picking up bad information from at least some of your sources and reflect on how this impacts your overall argument? Humans *can* digest raw meat and in some cultures, it's a significant source of nutrition.1 -
It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.1
-
I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
That's a 200 page report. May I ask what specific portions you think support the claims you've made in this thread so we can discuss those?
I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I'm just passionate about accuracy when people are representing veganism.
When you think of all the people who will see your posts online, some of them may not be familiar with arguments for veganism, they may not know many vegans. When they see vegans repeating inaccurate information or even being misleading (not saying you are being deliberately misleading, but I've seen it happen in other threads), assumptions take root. Things like "vegans don't understand nutrition" or even "vegans lie." It makes it that much harder for the next vegan to be taken seriously or for valid points about veganism to be understood.
This is terrible for animals and that is why it concerns me so much.3 -
We can digest raw meat just fine it's the parasites we don't want so as humans with fire cook meat.1
-
janejellyroll wrote: »I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
This is what you said earlier after sharing your macros: "I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet."
If you didn't mean to be talking about other people, "you" may not have been the best word choice there.
Later you write "I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement."
So it appears you're adjusting it even lower, but if you aren't meaning to give specific targets, I understand that. It makes your posts rather confusing though.
If you're comparing the consumption of raw meat to smoking, then I'm going to ask what that is based on. Are there studies that show an increase in cancer in populations that commonly eat raw meat that has been linked or associated with that particular habit? I'm not aware of any, so I'm curious as to what you base this statement on.
Either way, it has nothing to do with your earlier claim that we *cannot* eat raw meat that we need to cook it in order to digest it. That simply isn't true, so now you're just making a new claim -- that eating raw meat will cause cancer. Please don't just move the goalposts, let's focus on your initial claim.
Will you at least acknowledge that you're picking up bad information from at least some of your sources and reflect on how this impacts your overall argument? Humans *can* digest raw meat and in some cultures, it's a significant source of nutrition.
My post was very vague. Me saying you don't need that much protein isn't restricting or suggesting anything at all. After you asked for facts I posted WHO who recommended 5% protein consumption would be the basic need. How didn't I back that up?
I also didn't suggest an actual research study for raw meat and smoking. It was a comparison. Like the sky is as blue as the ocean. Pretty simple. It was not a declaration. Did I say that raw meat causes cancer? Nope. But I made a comparison to something that was cool in society for a while, but now is a huge "no-no." But raw meat and gut bacteria don't go well together. I didn't realize I needed a resource and reference guide very sentence I posted. Noted I will post with sources from now on.
0 -
We can digest raw meat just fine it's the parasites we don't want so as humans with fire cook meat.
Sure the parasites are the issue. Maybe if we had shorter digestive tracks or a higher acidity level in our stomachs it wouldn't be a problem. Hm...pretty sure that would pertain to carnivore....which we aren't1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
That's a 200 page report. May I ask what specific portions you think support the claims you've made in this thread so we can discuss those?
I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I'm just passionate about accuracy when people are representing veganism.
When you think of all the people who will see your posts online, some of them may not be familiar with arguments for veganism, they may not know many vegans. When they see vegans repeating inaccurate information or even being misleading (not saying you are being deliberately misleading, but I've seen it happen in other threads), assumptions take root. Things like "vegans don't understand nutrition" or even "vegans lie." It makes it that much harder for the next vegan to be taken seriously or for valid points about veganism to be understood.
This is terrible for animals and that is why it concerns me so much.
Well it is difficult to answer multiple people at once on a forum for sure. Hence why I feel as though I am going back and forth on different things. I will pull out a certain portion of said document for you!
1 -
We can digest raw meat just fine it's the parasites we don't want so as humans with fire cook meat.
Sure the parasites are the issue. Maybe if we had shorter digestive tracks or a higher acidity level in our stomachs it wouldn't be a problem. Hm...pretty sure that would pertain to carnivore....which we aren't
Nobody is saying we're carnivores.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
9 -
The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Wow, you have really drunk the kool-aid.
I could argue this from an evolutionary and archaeological standpoint (and btw, I actually am an archaeologist, so I know a thing or two about that, and the evolution of the human diet), but it would be a waste of my time, and I frankly have better things to do.
If being vegan is your choice, that's fine, but don't base it on pseudoscience when there is no need to. We're omnivores, plain and simple. I am a staunch vegetarian, but I am under no illusions that meat eating played an important role in our evolution. I just happen to be lucky enough to live in an era where I don't need to eat meat in order to meet my nutritional requirements. Or are you going to try to tell me our Palaeolithic ancestors weren't eating meat?8 -
VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
I 100% do not care if you eat meat or dairy, there are plenty of other sources. I have much admiration for ethical vegans and was vegetarian for 10 years. I struggle morally with my consumption of animal products. My issue is not with veganism, it is with statements thrown out as fact instead of vague opinion with no sources to back it up. Literally all I asked was "10% seems low?" and you came at me with ermagherd meat and dairy is evil and they're pushing protein on us because they're evil. Which was quite a leap you have to admit.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
This is what you said earlier after sharing your macros: "I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet."
If you didn't mean to be talking about other people, "you" may not have been the best word choice there.
Later you write "I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement."
So it appears you're adjusting it even lower, but if you aren't meaning to give specific targets, I understand that. It makes your posts rather confusing though.
If you're comparing the consumption of raw meat to smoking, then I'm going to ask what that is based on. Are there studies that show an increase in cancer in populations that commonly eat raw meat that has been linked or associated with that particular habit? I'm not aware of any, so I'm curious as to what you base this statement on.
Either way, it has nothing to do with your earlier claim that we *cannot* eat raw meat that we need to cook it in order to digest it. That simply isn't true, so now you're just making a new claim -- that eating raw meat will cause cancer. Please don't just move the goalposts, let's focus on your initial claim.
Will you at least acknowledge that you're picking up bad information from at least some of your sources and reflect on how this impacts your overall argument? Humans *can* digest raw meat and in some cultures, it's a significant source of nutrition.
My post was very vague. Me saying you don't need that much protein isn't restricting or suggesting anything at all. After you asked for facts I posted WHO who recommended 5% protein consumption would be the basic need. How didn't I back that up?
I also didn't suggest an actual research study for raw meat and smoking. It was a comparison. Like the sky is as blue as the ocean. Pretty simple. It was not a declaration. Did I say that raw meat causes cancer? Nope. But I made a comparison to something that was cool in society for a while, but now is a huge "no-no." But raw meat and gut bacteria don't go well together. I didn't realize I needed a resource and reference guide very sentence I posted. Noted I will post with sources from now on.
Yeah, when you're calling something harmful (which is very different than saying something is a certain color), it's helpful to have a source that backs that up in some way. It's still a chance of topic from your initial claim that humans can't digest raw meat, but it looks better when you have a reasoning or information behind more controversial or unproven claims.
I appreciate you clarifying that you were not attempting to offer suggestions or recommendations for protein intake.0 -
We can digest raw meat just fine it's the parasites we don't want so as humans with fire cook meat.
Sure the parasites are the issue. Maybe if we had shorter digestive tracks or a higher acidity level in our stomachs it wouldn't be a problem. Hm...pretty sure that would pertain to carnivore....which we aren't
If the parasites are the issue, then why was the claim that we need to cook meat in order to digest it?
These are two separate things.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
Just so you know, many of the people who have challenged your claims here don't eat meat and at least one doesn't eat dairy either.
This isn't a non-vegan versus vegan thing. This is an accuracy versus inaccuracy thing.13 -
The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Just gonna point out that the WHO said none of those things, google reveals your quote is from this website.
http://goodfoodproject.net/home/resources/what-the-experts-say/protein-what-the-experts-say/
With the quote attributed to John A. McDougall.
The ACTUAL recommended amount of protein per day is not a flat % of total calories but dependent on the weight of the person. It's 0.83 grams per kg of weight and meant as a MINIMUM to not become deficient as others pointed out, and can be read at length with explanations here if you suffer from insomnia and need to get up early tomorrow.
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/43411/1/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf10
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 394.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.9K Getting Started
- 260.4K Health and Weight Loss
- 176.1K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 435 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153.1K Motivation and Support
- 8.1K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.9K MyFitnessPal Information
- 15 News and Announcements
- 1.2K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.7K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions