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VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke15 -
VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
Government and economics aside, there have been numerous studies by highly respected professionals about protein requirements as they relate to body composition. This is where most forum recommendations come from, not from what organizations are trying to make money off of whom.
But your second paragraph is great! Kudos to you.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Seconded by a vegetarian who manages to get 1g of protein per lb of body weight each day. Even taking out dairy, 101g of my protein yesterday came from non-animal sources.4 -
To touch on the "research non-biased parties to determine why we don't need very much protein" line, I am not aware of any non-biased sources making this claim. All the sources I've seen promoting this type of diet are promoting diets free of animal products (not all who promote plant-based and/or vegan diets make this claim, but everyone I've seen making this claim is promoting that type of diet).
This isn't to say that they're *wrong*. One can have a bias and also be sharing correct information, but to promote them as a bias-free source wouldn't be accurate. One should be thoughtful when evaluating the claims of those with a bias and just because someone is promoting the opposite of what someone with a bias (or what you perceive as a bias) is claiming, you can't assume they are somehow bias-free.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.11 -
VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
Government and economics aside, there have been numerous studies by highly respected professionals about protein requirements as they relate to body composition. This is where most forum recommendations come from, not from what organizations are trying to make money off of whom.
But your second paragraph is great! Kudos to you.
Thank you!
I happen to disagree with your first paragraph, but I suppose to each is own. There are various studies that will back up any opinion. That is why it is up to you to determine your credentials for credible research and things of that nature. I just try to look at who is funding the research, is it peer reviewed, is it conducted by credible individuals, are they profiting anything off of this research? Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper than the surface, ya know! But thanks for the reply!8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »To touch on the "research non-biased parties to determine why we don't need very much protein" line, I am not aware of any non-biased sources making this claim. All the sources I've seen promoting this type of diet are promoting diets free of animal products (not all who promote plant-based and/or vegan diets make this claim, but everyone I've seen making this claim is promoting that type of diet).
This isn't to say that they're *wrong*. One can have a bias and also be sharing correct information, but to promote them as a bias-free source wouldn't be accurate. One should be thoughtful when evaluating the claims of those with a bias and just because someone is promoting the opposite of what someone with a bias (or what you perceive as a bias) is claiming, you can't assume they are somehow bias-free.
If you would like more information I could type something up...just private message me. I also agree I think if someone is selling something they are not credible, I.E. someone with a agenda to turn the world into whatever diet.
Side note...I never named a research study, I mentioned non-bias sources I have read studies from. So you can't say that I was promoting anything inaccurately at all. But thanks so much for the reply!5 -
People are well versed in reading and interpreting peer reviewed studies here. They actively encourage it and so we would all love to see your sources, not something you type from your own perspective. And feel free to post links to your non-bia studies.
So no need to think we're not adept at vetting information, you're coming off pretty patronising at this point.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
Others may find that information interesting as well so go ahead and post it here. If it gets too debate-y, we can ask the mods to move the thread to Debate.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
I'm sure they're behind the push to decrease meat consumption?6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
The meat industry is so deep in the nutrtitional board that the only food group that has a recommendation of "you should eat at least this much, more is better" is vegetables.6 -
if i want a cookie, ill have a cookie.
but i have food issues.
if i want a mashed banana ill have a mashed banana
lolol 2 -
Im not gonna sugar coat this...........they are vile!
we made them after my aunty shared them on facebook..........even the dog refused to eat them
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
If you are suggesting that the meat industry doesn't have investments in the nutritional board for coming up with new dietary guidelines, and they are completely not involved.....I suppose that is a pointless argument to get into because we stand on very different ends with very different thoughts.
I have done a lot of research for myself and feel comfortable with where I am. Like I mentioned about I figured that this would turn into a Vegan and their protein debate haha. Its just not worth it. I am not one of those "vegan converters." I research my needs myself and I feel happy with it. I don't care how anyone else eats. If you eat what makes you feel best then that is the right diet for you.
I suggested no such thing, and don't really care about government recommendations because I don't think they're high enough for the populations I've mentioned due to the research I've read.
Muscle mass is important, and protein is important for retaining muscle mass for active, dieting, and aging individuals.
The current government recommendations according to independent scientific research on the populations I mentioned are only adequate for sedentary individuals, regardless of whatever conspiracy the meat industry has in their making.
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janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »To touch on the "research non-biased parties to determine why we don't need very much protein" line, I am not aware of any non-biased sources making this claim. All the sources I've seen promoting this type of diet are promoting diets free of animal products (not all who promote plant-based and/or vegan diets make this claim, but everyone I've seen making this claim is promoting that type of diet).
This isn't to say that they're *wrong*. One can have a bias and also be sharing correct information, but to promote them as a bias-free source wouldn't be accurate. One should be thoughtful when evaluating the claims of those with a bias and just because someone is promoting the opposite of what someone with a bias (or what you perceive as a bias) is claiming, you can't assume they are somehow bias-free.
If you would like more information I could type something up...just private message me. I also agree I think if someone is selling something they are not credible, I.E. someone with a agenda to turn the world into whatever diet.
Side note...I never named a research study, I mentioned non-bias sources I have read studies from. So you can't say that I was promoting anything inaccurately at all. But thanks so much for the reply!
We don't need to do this over PM, you can share your sources here.
If you aren't referring to a particular "research study," let me know what you're referring to. I'm not saying there are not any non-biased sources out there telling people they only need 10% protein (there could be), I'm just saying I've never encountered an organization saying that when they also were not attempting to persuade people to adopt veganism or reduce the amount of animal products in their diet.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.
Most importantly, we have different digestive tracts.
Because we're omnivores. Not herbivores like elephants. We can't digest plant matter as well as them. And gorillas, while mostly eating plants, also eat bugs and stuff, rich in protein.
Now, THAT'S something that has science to back it up.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »10% protein? What does that equate to in grams? Seems way low.
10% of my daily caloric intake is from protein yes. This averages about 45-60 grams of protein. I don't want to get too much into the whole Vegan topic, because people tend to get very defensive, but you don't need that much protein in your diet. Government run programs will tell you differently because meat makes money, dairy makes money, eggs make money and are all involved in government nutrition programs. So do research on your own by non-bias parties if you're interested. But I am sure on MFP it seems kind of low, especially since most diets preach high protein.
Personal background - I went vegan after having my second child, and now weigh less than I did in High School. I can see ab muscles way more defined than I ever had before (even when I was a gym addict) Plus I feel fantastic. I have no issues with "gains" when I am building certain muscle groups, and I don't feel starved. I simple eat when I am hungry.
@janejellyroll
Protein needs have nothing to do with the meat industry, and in fact the current dietary recommendations for protein are low for active individuals, dieters, training individuals, and the elderly.
Signed,
A vegetarian who gets plenty of protein because she's older and sarcopenia is no joke
Yeah, I don't get a ton of protein (usually about 15-20% of my calories), but 10% is really low. OP, while it sounds like this is currently working for you, this isn't enough for many people, including those on a deficit, anyone trying to build muscle, people who are very active, and people who are getting older and want to retain the muscle that they already have.
If you have a problem with meat, dairy, and eggs making money, then just buy all the plant foods with protein. That's what I do, no conspiracy theories necessary when you chow down on beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan (as well as the protein in nuts, grains, and vegetables).
Plants tend to have on average 10% protein (on average there are some greater some less). Plants to me personally are the perfect food that we were designed to eat. There is a bunch of research behind all of my comments, DM me if you are interested.
You must be right about people bulking and building muscle because aside from humans we can look at the animal kingdom. Elephants must be shriveling away, and those gorillas seem weak too. Don't worry I know you are thinking "we aren't elephants or gorillas" but I do have research for that too.
You make a great point about the plant proteins, but I don't feel the need to add extra protein in my diet. If you are getting the sufficient amount of calories you are getting enough protein. I would love to see a case study about a person who suffered from protein deficiency who was getting sufficient calories....eating disorders or disordered eating people could suffer from protein deficiency would be my first thought, but I would love to see that.
What research are you referring to? I'm not knocking plants at all (I eat them myself). I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that we were "designed" to eat anything in particular (who is the designer?), although there is a lot of population-level research showing the results of different types of diets.
Whether or not we should eat plants is a completely different question as to whether or not 10% protein is an appropriate goal for most of the population.
We can't compare our muscle growth to gorillas and elephants -- we're different animals, we eat different things, and we have different dietary needs. It's like me telling someone who wants to do a bulk that they should eat only plankton because whales do it and they get super-big.
You say you have research to respond to "we aren't elephants or gorillas"? Okay, what research are you referring to and how does it refute the claim that we aren't elephants and gorillas (I thought that was a pretty well-established and -acknowledged fact, myself)?
There are all sorts of levels of unwellness before clinical protein deficiency kicks in. There's a lack of energy, there is muscle loss, there are impacts to nails and hair. When you look into accounts of former vegans who abandoned the lifestyle because they felt unwell, some common threads emerge -- they often adopted dietary patterns that were low in protein and/or fat or the protein they were getting wasn't balanced enough (lysine is of particular concern to vegans). You can't look at the large number of people who abandon veganism because their fitness, energy, or health suffered and conclude that we're doing everything right in guiding new vegans well to meet their nutritional needs.
When we tell new vegans that protein doesn't matter or that 10% is enough no matter your age, lifestyle, and goals, or that our need for protein is a myth concocted by the meat and dairy industry, we are doing those people a disservice and (as important to me), we're doing *animals* a disservice because we're breeding future ex-vegans who are going to go around telling people "veganism didn't work for me," "I was hungry all the time as a vegan," or "you can't build muscle on a vegan diet, I know I tried it."
Highly recommend you check out some science-based vegan nutritional information: Veganhealth.org is a great place to start. It's run by a vegan RD who is committed to helping people meet their nutritional needs and be vegans for life.
Most importantly, we have different digestive tracts.
Because we're omnivores. Not herbivores like elephants. We can't digest plant matter as well as them. And gorillas, while mostly eating plants, also eat bugs and stuff, rich in protein.
Now, THAT'S something that has science to back it up.
Yes, that is one of the most vital differences. I should have called it out.
You simply can't compare diet and how it relates to body composition between animals with different digestive tracts.
We aren't gorillas and we aren't elephants.
For the example of gorillas specifically (because I see them frequently cited by the "we don't need much protein" crowd), they have a longer digestive tract and they also eat much more protein than we might assume. In addition to bugs, they're eating things like wild nettles, a plant that has about 3 grams of protein per 100 grams. That may not sound like much, but when you consider that a gorilla may eat 40 pounds of food a day, that can come out to 500 grams of protein for a gorilla *per day*. This is not a low protein diet.
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