3 Ingredient Healthy Cookies!
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Lower protein intake is fine if you are sedentary and eating maintenance or a surplus, protein's importance increases with more activity or if you are in a caloric deficit. Not getting more protein under these conditions will lead to a larger % of your weight loss coming from muscle, so if you want to lose weight, no prob, but if you want to lose fat, then protein matters.2
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stevencloser wrote: »The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Just gonna point out that the WHO said none of those things, google reveals your quote is from this website.
http://goodfoodproject.net/home/resources/what-the-experts-say/protein-what-the-experts-say/
With the quote attributed to John A. McDougall.
The ACTUAL recommended amount of protein per day is not a flat % of total calories but dependent on the weight of the person. It's 0.83 grams per kg of weight and meant as a MINIMUM to not become deficient as others pointed out, and can be read at length with explanations here if you suffer from insomnia and need to get up early tomorrow.
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/43411/1/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf
Good catch -- I'd seen that quote before, never thought to check to see if it was actually from an WHO document.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I never suggested any percentage ... This all began because I stated my personal consumption. Then it somehow was misconstrued into my recommendation, and everyone saying that I suggested that for all. The only recommendation I DID suggest for all if you look above....is...Whatever works well for you and your daily life, and is the most reasonable (health, cost effective wise) I.E. Whatever works for you. I am not a preacher at all.
I don't care to take the time at the moment to get all my articles, hence why I said just google from these sources. But here is a link to a protein article that goes over high and low protein affects.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/
Sure people can eat raw meat, sure people can smoke. Do you get lung cancer after you first light up?
That's a 200 page report. May I ask what specific portions you think support the claims you've made in this thread so we can discuss those?
I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I'm just passionate about accuracy when people are representing veganism.
When you think of all the people who will see your posts online, some of them may not be familiar with arguments for veganism, they may not know many vegans. When they see vegans repeating inaccurate information or even being misleading (not saying you are being deliberately misleading, but I've seen it happen in other threads), assumptions take root. Things like "vegans don't understand nutrition" or even "vegans lie." It makes it that much harder for the next vegan to be taken seriously or for valid points about veganism to be understood.
This is terrible for animals and that is why it concerns me so much.
She probably hasn't read it, because it doesn't support the quote she googled from a vegan site.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
Just so you know, many of the people who have challenged your claims here don't eat meat and at least one doesn't eat dairy either.
This isn't a non-vegan versus vegan thing. This is an accuracy versus inaccuracy thing.
Yup. Veg*n diets aren't about macro mixes. Meat hasn't passed my lips in over 8 years. I get over 100 grams of protein every day.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Wow, you have really drunk the kool-aid.
I could argue this from an evolutionary and archaeological standpoint (and btw, I actually am an archaeologist, so I know a thing or two about that, and the evolution of the human diet), but it would be a waste of my time, and I frankly have better things to do.
If being vegan is your choice, that's fine, but don't base it on pseudoscience when there is no need to. We're omnivores, plain and simple. I am a staunch vegetarian, but I am under no illusions that meat eating played an important role in our evolution. I just happen to be lucky enough to live in an era where I don't need to eat meat in order to meet my nutritional requirements. Or are you going to try to tell me our Palaeolithic ancestors weren't eating meat?
To make long story short: chimpanzees, our closest relatives, hunt monkeys. They're predators. They eat meat. They're omnivore. And so are we.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WBs74W4ik
Might be graphic, I haven't watched.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
Just so you know, many of the people who have challenged your claims here don't eat meat and at least one doesn't eat dairy either.
This isn't a non-vegan versus vegan thing. This is an accuracy versus inaccuracy thing.
Yup. Veg*n diets aren't about macro mixes. Meat hasn't passed my lips in over 8 years. I get over 100 grams of protein every day.
Yep, you can be incredibly varied as a vegan/vegetarian, I even know a couple people who have done keto as vegans.
This is why equating veganism/vegetarianism with low protein intake concerns me because it may discourage some people who might otherwise be interested in trying it out. And I also genuinely believe that some people who quit veganism/vegetarianism because they develop health problems or just don't feel good are actually getting insufficient protein (and/or fat). Not to put the onus on anyone who develops health problems or claim it is their fault, that's not at all my position and I understand ill health can strike anyone no matter what we do -- I just think those who advocate for veganism or vegetarianism have an obligation to set people up for success as best we can with current information about human dietary needs. Pretending we don't need protein doesn't help anyone.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Wow, you have really drunk the kool-aid.
I could argue this from an evolutionary and archaeological standpoint (and btw, I actually am an archaeologist, so I know a thing or two about that, and the evolution of the human diet), but it would be a waste of my time, and I frankly have better things to do.
If being vegan is your choice, that's fine, but don't base it on pseudoscience when there is no need to. We're omnivores, plain and simple. I am a staunch vegetarian, but I am under no illusions that meat eating played an important role in our evolution. I just happen to be lucky enough to live in an era where I don't need to eat meat in order to meet my nutritional requirements. Or are you going to try to tell me our Palaeolithic ancestors weren't eating meat?
To make long story short: chimpanzees, our closest relatives, hunt monkeys. They're predators. They eat meat. They're omnivore. And so are we.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WBs74W4ik
Might be graphic, I haven't watched.
Chimpanzee life is intense. I went through a period a couple years ago where I was obsessed with learning about chimpanzee life and they're . . . they're brutal.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »The World Health Organization, Cornell Institute of Nutrition, Nutrition and Dietetics Association all support veganism or Whole foods plant based diets as the healthiest diet. If you look at any study that suggest higher protein consumption it is typically put out or funded by the meat and dairy industry. I just was finding more research that suggests 5% protein is a requirement.
WHO:
"The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day."
Google any question you have from the WHO or any above named source, which I would believe is highly credible.
Not only that the one and only food that we can 100% say is intended for humans is human breast milk. It is the perfect food designed to support a human life. Human breast milk has the lowest protein content of any mammalian animal. Even rats have a higher protein percentage in their breast milk. We don't need a lot of protein.
Not only that we are not omnivores. We need to cook our food to begin the digestion process (i.e. meat). If we were true omnivores we could eat meat raw. Which we can't.
If you have heart issues, what is the first dietary change that a doctor would offer? Less red meat, smaller portions of meat. We are so "proteined" out in America.
And side note to those who believe we are omnivores:
Research the following reasons:
1 -Teeth, jaw, and nails
Carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth that are capable of tearing flesh, Carnivores’ jaws move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow them whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, allowing them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores’ teeth, humans’ back molars are flat for grinding fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars.
2 - Stomach acidity
Carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to break down flesh and kill the dangerous bacteria in meat that would otherwise sicken or kill them. Our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren’t needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables.
3 - Intestinal length
Herbivore and human intestines are 10-12 times their body lengths and omnivores intestines are only 4-6 times their body length.
4 - Bad cholesterol that affects us only comes from animal sources
5 - Gut bacteria in vegans versus non-vegans studies
I've attached an image I hope it works
Wow, you have really drunk the kool-aid.
I could argue this from an evolutionary and archaeological standpoint (and btw, I actually am an archaeologist, so I know a thing or two about that, and the evolution of the human diet), but it would be a waste of my time, and I frankly have better things to do.
If being vegan is your choice, that's fine, but don't base it on pseudoscience when there is no need to. We're omnivores, plain and simple. I am a staunch vegetarian, but I am under no illusions that meat eating played an important role in our evolution. I just happen to be lucky enough to live in an era where I don't need to eat meat in order to meet my nutritional requirements. Or are you going to try to tell me our Palaeolithic ancestors weren't eating meat?
To make long story short: chimpanzees, our closest relatives, hunt monkeys. They're predators. They eat meat. They're omnivore. And so are we.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WBs74W4ik
Might be graphic, I haven't watched.
I can assure you without watching that it will be graphic (I've seen this or similar in the Evolution of the Human Diet paper I took at university, where I learnt about this stuff from a non-biased source). Chimps are pretty damn ruthless.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »It's not my job to prove your claims, that's your job. You made them, you back them up. Being unwilling to just makes us question your sources or the truth of what you think.
Clearly I made a post about a cookie recipe. I didn't want to spend my time researching and proving things to anyone, because I simply don't care. I was hoping to get a private message of someone who actually was interested or concerned because I didn't feel like having to answer multiple things at once like this on a forum. It's confusing I'm sure for everyone.... I made a comment:
1 - I EAT 10% PROTEIN DAILY _ ON AVERAGE (Personal)
2 - WHO SUGGESTS 5% PROTEIN INTAKE IS AN ACTUAL NEED (From the WHO)
3 - YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH PROTEIN - pretty vague statement. Not exactly a claim at all. So I don't know why everyone freaked out over that. Pretty interesting.
Just so you know, many of the people who have challenged your claims here don't eat meat and at least one doesn't eat dairy either.
This isn't a non-vegan versus vegan thing. This is an accuracy versus inaccuracy thing.
Yup. Veg*n diets aren't about macro mixes. Meat hasn't passed my lips in over 8 years. I get over 100 grams of protein every day.
Yep, you can be incredibly varied as a vegan/vegetarian, I even know a couple people who have done keto as vegans.
This is why equating veganism/vegetarianism with low protein intake concerns me because it may discourage some people who might otherwise be interested in trying it out. And I also genuinely believe that some people who quit veganism/vegetarianism because they develop health problems or just don't feel good are actually getting insufficient protein (and/or fat). Not to put the onus on anyone who develops health problems or claim it is their fault, that's not at all my position and I understand ill health can strike anyone no matter what we do -- I just think those who advocate for veganism or vegetarianism have an obligation to set people up for success as best we can with current information about human dietary needs. Pretending we don't need protein doesn't help anyone.
Agreed completely.0 -
Oh another thing I noticed. The (not) WHO quote goes on as follows:
“The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day. This quantity of protein is impossible to avoid when daily calorie needs are met by unrefined starches and vegetables. For example, rice alone would provide 71 grams of highly usable protein and white potatoes would provide 64 grams of protein.” John A. McDougall, MD
64 grams of protein from potatoes, eh? Let's see...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2548/2
1.7 grams per 100 gram. According to my highly scientific calculations that would mean eating 3.7 kilos of potatoes. Or 900 grams of brown rice. That's 900 grams uncooked, btw. Sure thing.2 -
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jessiferrrb wrote: »
This is me with any banana recipe that promises me that it's exactly like a cookie or ice cream or whatever. I learned long ago that they're not for me.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »Oh another thing I noticed. The (not) WHO quote goes on as follows:
“The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day. This quantity of protein is impossible to avoid when daily calorie needs are met by unrefined starches and vegetables. For example, rice alone would provide 71 grams of highly usable protein and white potatoes would provide 64 grams of protein.” John A. McDougall, MD
64 grams of protein from potatoes, eh? Let's see...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2548/2
1.7 grams per 100 gram. According to my highly scientific calculations that would mean eating 3.7 kilos of potatoes. Or 900 grams of brown rice. That's 900 grams uncooked, btw. Sure thing.
I knew McDougall was a rice and potato fan, but that's a lot even by his standards . . .2 -
Here's what WHO really says when McDougall isn't twisting things:. The value accepted for the safe level of intake
is 0.83 g/kg per day, for proteins with a protein digestibility-corrected amino
acid score value of 1.0. No safe upper limit has been identified and it is unlikely that intakes of twice the safe level are associated with any risk.
who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/5 -
For those OK with Egg:
3 Ingredient Peanut Butter Cookies
Prep time 10 mins, Cook time 15 mins, Total time 25 mins
Author: barefootinthekitchen.com
Serves: 12-15 cookies
Ingredients
•1 cup (8oz/240g) stevia
•1 cup (8oz/240g) peanut butter (the version that fits your needs)
•1 egg
**Also great with dark chocolate chips
Instructions
1.Preheat your oven to 350oF (180Oc) and line a large cookie sheet with parchment paper.
2.In a large bowl stir all three ingredients together until smooth.
3.Using a tablespoon measure scoop out 2 tablespoon of cookie dough and roll into a smooth ball.
4.Place pre-rolled cookies on your cookie sheet about one inch apart, no need to worry about these spreading.
5.Press down with the back of a fork and then press again from the opposite direction to form that classic criss-cross pattern.
6.Bake for 15-20 minutes. Remove from the oven and let cool on the tray for 1-2 minutes before removing to a wire rack to finish cooling.
7.Store in an air tight container for up to 3 days.
1 -
Wow... look at this thread go.
Are we missing some context here? OP, or at least her references, seem to be be very general and wide sweeping in their audience.
Most of us are much more specific, or at least bring a much narrower context, that being people with body composition as a factor in their goals/considerations.1 -
Wow... look at this thread go.
Are we missing some context here? OP, or at least her references, seem to be be very general and wide sweeping in their audience.
Most of us are much more specific, or at least bring a much narrower context, that being people with body composition as a factor in their goals/considerations.
OP's references aren't even citing their source material correctly, so there's that.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Wow... look at this thread go.
Are we missing some context here? OP, or at least her references, seem to be be very general and wide sweeping in their audience.
Most of us are much more specific, or at least bring a much narrower context, that being people with body composition as a factor in their goals/considerations.
OP's references aren't even citing their source material correctly, so there's that.
Sure, but that's not really the point, is it? It's just another leg of her stool to cut out from under her.
Comparing advice from the WHO (or whomever) to advice given by Alan Aargon or Mike Isreatel isn't exactly comparing apples and oranges, is it?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Wow... look at this thread go.
Are we missing some context here? OP, or at least her references, seem to be be very general and wide sweeping in their audience.
Most of us are much more specific, or at least bring a much narrower context, that being people with body composition as a factor in their goals/considerations.
OP's references aren't even citing their source material correctly, so there's that.
Sure, but that's not really the point, is it? It's just another leg of her stool to cut out from under her.
Comparing advice from the WHO (or whomever) to advice given by Alan Aargon or Mike Isreatel isn't exactly comparing apples and oranges, is it?
Advice regarding aging populations and the prevention of sarcopenia isn't from either of them. Neither is the advice on dieters or active people.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4555150/
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nbu.12215/full
Since we are on a diet/fitness site, many of us fall into one of these categories. At the very least, the OP isn't even eating at what the current dietary recommendations suggest for sedentary individuals due to false information.
Interestingly, the WHO recommendations that I posted, the actual ones, exactly match the current ones which are supposedly greatly influenced by the meat industry, so her main argument about some vast conspiracy to push protein by Big Beef is moot.
Furthermore, I'm not sure what you're trying to do here.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Wow... look at this thread go.
Are we missing some context here? OP, or at least her references, seem to be be very general and wide sweeping in their audience.
Most of us are much more specific, or at least bring a much narrower context, that being people with body composition as a factor in their goals/considerations.
OP's references aren't even citing their source material correctly, so there's that.
Sure, but that's not really the point, is it? It's just another leg of her stool to cut out from under her.
Comparing advice from the WHO (or whomever) to advice given by Alan Aargon or Mike Isreatel isn't exactly comparing apples and oranges, is it?
But it's important that it's not actually from the WHO.0
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