Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
Options
Replies
-
Nony_Mouse wrote: »It's a way of trying to stop responses, or I guess just letting a few hash it out without subjecting everyone else to it. It should just be closed.
Agreed.0 -
i dont feel like our conversation is all that bad.. could probably be moved to the debates thread tho1
-
I'm guessing it's a mod tool. I haven't seen it often, but it effective at reducing traffic to a thread, because unless someone is watching the notifications (therefore bookmarked), they wouldn't check it. The only other time I've seen a thread not pop up is when it's been scrubbed of a bunch of comments, it then sinks until the current number of posts reaches the pre-scrub number of posts.
DISCLAIMER: this post is not a commentary on the use of the tool by the mod team!2 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
lol.. I can't even...
You are basically saying that you know more then websites based on factual information on an eating disorder?
That is not what I said. You are being intellectually dishonest.8 -
Aahh that also might explain why on the main forum list page ill sometimes see the most recently posted on topic in the list, click the forum the topic is in and the topic is no where to be seen lol1
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.
I do believe I said someone should see the doctor with these issues. You are making a false statement. I also think doctors don't know everything and sometimes people have to try stuff also.
9 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
lol.. I can't even...
You are basically saying that you know more then websites based on factual information on an eating disorder?
That is not what I said. You are being intellectually dishonest.
I don't think so.. I have posted three sites with information based on B.E.D. This information is sound enough to professionally diagnose someone when seen by a professional.
Based on nothing but your guess to a disorder that you yourself aren't living with, you are claiming these sites don't know everything to further help prove that Gale has an eating disorder.8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
These sites aren't all knowing but your anecdotal stories which are from OTHER PEOPLE should override the sites which were designed to help people assess whether they have a problem and seek actual help?
Seriously man. Does Big Coconut Oil write you weekly checks? Are you on the board of IntermittentFastingCorp LLC? Why in thread after thread are you making such ridiculous claims and so vested in convincing others that this is the one true way that you completely and willfully ignore what others are saying? Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you just not care how ridiculous this makes you look, and how offensive this stance on this thread is?
I've never said IF or Keto is the magic cure for anything. I've said it has helped some and can help some which you don't want to seem to acknowledge. You are not reading what I've said or are flat out not being honest with what I've said. I'm sorry you so miffed I made a suggestion that it may help some people!5 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
lol.. I can't even...
You are basically saying that you know more then websites based on factual information on an eating disorder?
Did I really say that? No I didn't. I'm making a point that the site may not have complete knowledge and that there is the possibility that they don't have it 100%. You read way too much into what I stated.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
These sites aren't all knowing but your anecdotal stories which are from OTHER PEOPLE should override the sites which were designed to help people assess whether they have a problem and seek actual help?
Seriously man. Does Big Coconut Oil write you weekly checks? Are you on the board of IntermittentFastingCorp LLC? Why in thread after thread are you making such ridiculous claims and so vested in convincing others that this is the one true way that you completely and willfully ignore what others are saying? Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you just not care how ridiculous this makes you look, and how offensive this stance on this thread is?
I've never said IF or Keto is the magic cure for anything. I've said it has helped some and can help some which you don't want to seem to acknowledge. You are not reading what I've said or are flat out not being honest with what I've said. I'm sorry you so miffed I made a suggestion that it may help some people!
Do I think IF or Keto can help with BED? Nope. I don't suffer from it or have any clinical experience but from the testimonies of people who do, who have indicated in this very thread that a certain dietary approach would not help them with the demons they struggle with - then I'm happy to stand firm against you, who also doesn't suffer from BED and say that it is reckless to advise someone who thinks they may have this disease to try to manage it with diet rather than seeking medical guidance from a trained professional.
In other threads you've claimed that IF and Keto may provide advantages over CICO alone, and again, I do not believe the evidence supports this claim. If a person had a preference for LCHF and/or IF then by all means I think it can help them stick to a plan which enables them to achieve a calorie deficit and I've never said otherwise.
I am "miffed" because you refuse to acknowledge that Gales description of his prior behavior as an actual disorder is offensive to those who have a clinical diagnosis and are brace enough to share their experiences to try to help others. Your comments here help no one and in fact, may prevent people from getting the help that they need.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.
I do believe I said someone should see the doctor with these issues. You are making a false statement. I also think doctors don't know everything and sometimes people have to try stuff also.
People with binge eating disorder do try stuff.
Here is a list of the things i did to try and stop eating.
1. Threw out all my food in the house into the dumpster.
2. Removed all junk foods from the house in an attempt to control my eating them
3. Tried eating nothing but frozen dinners only to avoid bringing other foods into the house
4. Cut up my bank card into little pieces
5. Bought nothing but veggies and meats thinking i wouldn't binge on these things or if i did, it wouldn't be as bad
6. posted signs on my walls and fridge telling myself not to eat.
7. wrote on my hand in pen and marker telling myself not to eat.
8. Made a wallpaper for my cellphone telling myself not to eat.
9. Tried going to the grocery store and buying single serve portions at a time.
10. Gave all my food to my boyfriend and asked him to give them to me in single serve portions.
11. I have made food eaten more then i felt like i should and soaked the food in water in the sink to avoid eating more
12. I tried setting times when i should eat and tried to force myself to wait until those designated meal times
13. I have tried eating something every couple hours
14. I have tried avoiding certain foods completely.
15. I have tried fasting for a whole day as a form of panic that i needed to just not eat food and that would cause the cycle to stop
16. I have tried keeping myself busy with hobbies, movies, chatting to people, playing games on my phone.
17. I have spent all the money in my bank account on stupid things like stuffed animals online or scentsy to get my bank account to 0 so i wouldn't have any money to spend.
Should i go on?9 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.
I do believe I said someone should see the doctor with these issues. You are making a false statement. I also think doctors don't know everything and sometimes people have to try stuff also.
People with binge eating disorder do try stuff.
Here is a list of the things i did to try and stop eating.
1. Threw out all my food in the house into the dumpster.
2. Removed all junk foods from the house in an attempt to control my eating them
3. Tried eating nothing but frozen dinners only to avoid bringing other foods into the house
4. Cut up my bank card into little pieces
5. Bought nothing but veggies and meats thinking i wouldn't binge on these things or if i did, it wouldn't be as bad
6. posted signs on my walls and fridge telling myself not to eat.
7. wrote on my hand in pen and marker telling myself not to eat.
8. Made a wallpaper for my cellphone telling myself not to eat.
9. Tried going to the grocery store and buying single serve portions at a time.
10. Gave all my food to my boyfriend and asked him to give them to me in single serve portions.
11. I have made food eaten more then i felt like i should and soaked the food in water in the sink to avoid eating more
12. I tried setting times when i should eat and tried to force myself to wait until those designated meal times
13. I have tried eating something every couple hours
14. I have tried avoiding certain foods completely.
15. I have tried fasting for a whole day as a form of panic that i needed to just not eat food and that would cause the cycle to stop
16. I have tried keeping myself busy with hobbies, movies, chatting to people, playing games on my phone.
17. I have spent all the money in my bank account on stupid things like stuffed animals online or scentsy to get my bank account to 0 so i wouldn't have any money to spend.
Should i go on?
God why didn't you just try Keto and IF? It's so simple I can't believe you overlooked it.9 -
lol.. i suppose instead of eating a plate full of chicken thighs and 32 hot dogs i could of ate a jar of coconut oil.. but i really don't think it would of made a difference lol4
-
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »For those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
A psychological problem is a psychological problem. regardless of the severity of the eating disorder, you still have a disorder, you might have an easier time having longer lengths of control, but you are still going to have set backs and binges. The medication i take, Its called Vyvanse, When you google that it tells you that this medication is used to treat moderate to severe binge eating disorder. It's unlikely that there is a Easy binge eating disorder or a simple binge eating disorder or a light binge eating disorder. Whatever word you want to put in there. Moderate to me sounds like the base level of the disorder. Severe would be worse then that. However, both degrees of the disorder have the potential to need to be treated with medications to help people.
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/binge-eating-disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353627 -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder -- No mention of simply changing your diet as a fix to an eating disorder
If we are going to start basing everything on varying degrees, how about we also do it to smoking? Someone who has only smoked for 10 years will have an easier time then someone who smoked for 15 right? the 10 year smoker will be less likely to go back to smoking again? Their cravings, their habits, whatever it is in their life that constantly makes smokers go back to smoking even after being smoke free for months, the 10 year person won't struggle as bad. And if you've only been smoking for 5 years, well.. as soon as you quit for good, you're cured right?
If an eating disorder is simply based on degrees of binge eating then everyone on this planet pretty much has B.E.D.. We are all very sick mentally i guess.. from carbs apparently. Everyone who has had a moment of losing control and binge eating on something, need not go to a psychiatrist to be clinically diagnosed, by your theory, they just have a less severe version of a mental disorder and if they just do what Gale did, they will be cured too? Even though site after site does not support this logic?
Those site are not all-knowing. I don't argue that it is a life-long struggle for some but yes I do think there has to be varying degrees especially since the medicine talked about gradations of it. A 4-pack a day smoker is different than a few cigarrettes/day person. There definitely various levels of alcohol abuse. Maybe a sever BED person can not be cured by diet but can they be helped?
lol.. I can't even...
You are basically saying that you know more then websites based on factual information on an eating disorder?
Did I really say that? No I didn't. I'm making a point that the site may not have complete knowledge and that there is the possibility that they don't have it 100%. You read way too much into what I stated.
Perhaps given the number of people who seem to be misinterpreting your words, you could revisit what you've said to see if they are sending a message you don't really mean?
I don't have to directly call someone a buffoon to make it clear that that's what I'm thinking. Word choices can make a big difference in how the message comes across.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.
I do believe I said someone should see the doctor with these issues. You are making a false statement. I also think doctors don't know everything and sometimes people have to try stuff also.
But see here's the thing. We were all debating with Gale, specifically about his claim to have had an ED. And you jumped in to support Gale, but you don't seem to know what Gale was talking about. You're criticizing what we are saying to him, but arguing with us as if we said that stuff about something else. You can see where that would get confusing, right?8 -
@blambo61
The above image is a page from a log book given to me by my psychiatrist from the eating disorder clinic where i was diagnosed. I want you to see the chaos on those pages. Where i pleaded with myself to just stop.
Where i would plan to not eat then fail and end up eating anyway.
Where i would plan to try and offset the eating with cardio and also fail doing that too.
The words i write in sad desperation, of just being tired of going through this every single day..
I want you to scroll back through Gale's posts and find the same level of detail about his eating disorder.
I want you to tell me all the things he tried and failed at. I want you to tell me all the massive amounts of food he was consuming besides a banana split at dairy queen. I want you to tell me who specifically confirmed he has an eating disorder in order for him to say he had one but didn't know it until he went keto and found resolve. I want you to tell me all about his eating disorder that he hasn't just read what i've written and said "that reminds me of what i did with no other information attached. He was asked to share details of his eating disorder. If he had a privacy concern, he would of said that he did not feel comfortable, however he didn't, he did write something but it did not describe an eating disorder in the least. Since you really are convinced Gale is correct in his claims, by his posts, i want you to point out the same level of details i have given about my own eating disorder.
8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosedFor those with severe BED, is it not possible that some people have less severe BED? Makes sense to me.
Why do you keep trying to rationalize and make acceptable the unacceptable of someone claiming a BED when then not only haven't been diagnosed, they don't even really exhibit the symptoms? To say nothing of the fact that, as far as they've stated, they've never even been to a doctor for any kind of treatment.
I gave an example of a person who was clinically diagnosed with BED and is controlling their problem with IF. They don't say they are cured but it has helped a lot. Why does everyone here not see the fact that IF and keto have helped some with BED. May not have cured them but that isn't the point. The point is it has helped some people and even some clinically diagnosed. A person doesn't have to be diagnosed to have something. He may of had a less severe form of it than others. Again I ask, is it not possible for some people to have a less sever form of BED? If you can't answer a definitive NO, then you can't say that he for sure didn't have a less severe form of it.
Why can't you get passed that part and focus on where i keep repeating myself that he is claiming resolve. He's cured. Fixed. Not broken. Not struggling. Not needing any help. These are not possible with people who actually have the mental disorder.
A person should be diagnosed to officially claim that they have something.
If i get a lump on my breast, instead of going to the doctor to find out if its a cyst or cancer, should i just claim to have cancer?
What are your qualifications to say "He's cured"?
She was talking about you, and what you said about yourself.
You can't be cured of something you weren't diagnosed with. If that needs to be explained any further, I don't know what else to say.HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It really disheartens me that someone would rather see someone self diagnose themselves and try and create their own cure with keto and IF then encourage them to seek professional help before it's too late.
I do believe I said someone should see the doctor with these issues. You are making a false statement. I also think doctors don't know everything and sometimes people have to try stuff also.
But see here's the thing. We were all debating with Gale, specifically about his claim to have had an ED. And you jumped in to support Gale, but you don't seem to know what Gale was talking about. You're criticizing what we are saying to him, but arguing with us as if we said that stuff about something else. You can see where that would get confusing, right?
I know a lot of people took offense at what he said. I didn't think it was that offensive but I don't have BED either. I do think people should look past his possible mis-diagnosis and look at what he did offer and that was some methods that helped him. I don't think people with BED should be against trying things that could possibly help them some (I didn't say cure them). Like I said, one lady on a forum I frequent says she was clinically diagnosed with BED (she hasn't described her eating habits when diagnosed) and she does IF (OMAD) and she has remarkable control now and says she can walk away from it now. Does she ever binge, maybe, she hasn't said but she has said and described the control she has now and it does seem like it has helped her immensely. That is why I have dug in here a little is because it seems to me the folks here seem to be not giving Gale some credit with a WOE that has the possibility of helping some people, even BED people. If I was BED, I think I would be willing to try all sorts of things to see if it would help me or not. I wouldn't stop my meds or anything. I do suppose IF and maybe keto might make things worse for some with BED, I don't know but I think it would be more likely to help. I know IF has helped me a lot. I know what all parties have said here, i'm just being critical of some of the responses because I think they are being too critical of Gale and are looking past something that might be helpful. Also I don't like people saying I said stuff that I didn't.
One thing nice about IF is that it take a persons mind away from food. Those who eat often have many chances of it getting out of control. IF minimizes that risk.
13 -
Accidentally posted this
0 -
God, you just don't get it.
And saying you, as someone who doesn't have an eating disorder, don't find it offensive is like a straight person saying they don't get what the big deal is when people find the use of the word gay, when used to mean 'lame' or similar (as in 'that's so gay'), offensive. It is offensive (both are), whether you find it so or not.9 -
How is someone who doesn't have BED, claiming he cured his overeating which is not BED with LC and IF, helpful to people who have BED??? For the millionth time, BED is not a problem with overeating, it is a psychological disorder. I honestly am not sure if you are being purposefully argumentative, or are just ignoring the stuff you don't want to acknowledge.
No one here is disagreeing with the idea that some people who have chronically overeaten can improve by doing LC or IF. I wholly support someone who struggles to eat the right calories to try LC or IF, they are legit ways of eating and help many people. I have slowly wandered into IF myself on and off.
I do not support someone claiming an undiagnosed ED and then preaching the cure. That's it. That is literally all we were saying, before you tried to turn Gale's argument into fighting the good fight for low-carb.
Gale has alternately claimed all sorts of things have "cured" him of various health ailments he thinks cause his weight problems. Including some protein granules he spent several months spamming the forum about. Now he is saying it was BED cured by LCHF. Whatever, I'm out. I'm going to go to sleep and have nightmares about Fung
9
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 394 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 939 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions