CICO the lastest fad diet

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Replies

  • Lounmoun
    Lounmoun Posts: 8,423 Member
    Where is the writer getting that CICO is a diet fad from? Is there are study or survey or "All Cake CICO diet plan" book they can point to? Or are they just annoyed by a couple of people they know who insist they can eat dessert and still lose weight while they know you have to suck down green smoothies and eat tons of plain chicken and eggs?

    There are certainly people who do not particularly care about long term health when losing weight. They just want to be a number on the scale, fit a dress or look good in a swimsuit in a month. There are people who understand weight loss is about calories and restrict below the recommended minimums to get faster losses and don't care about nutritional goals much. It is kind of like people abusing drugs or something. They know it could be bad for them someday but don't care.

    I think the article hit the "you should eat nutritious foods and exercise too" idea but tried to make it seem too much like weight management through calories was less important to health than nutrition long term. I don't think the article convinced me that is the case with the way it was written. If some studies had been cited it might have been more convincing than quotes from nutritionists or dieticians.

    CICO is not a fad diet. It is a formula describing weight management. You have to adjust your CICO to meet whatever weight goal you have.
    You can lose weight in a healthy way. You can lose weight in an unhealthy way. Both require a calorie deficit.
    Weight management is a big part of health. Nutrition and exercise are pretty important for other aspects of health and satisfaction.
    Eating enough calories and a variety of foods from all the food groups is a damn good idea if you want to be healthy. Cake should not make up the bulk of your calories daily- particularly if your calorie goal is 1200 calories.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    Where is the writer getting that CICO is a diet fad from? Is there are study or survey or "All Cake CICO diet plan" book they can point to? Or are they just annoyed by a couple of people they know who insist they can eat dessert and still lose weight while they know you have to suck down green smoothies and eat tons of plain chicken and eggs?

    There are certainly people who do not particularly care about long term health when losing weight. They just want to be a number on the scale, fit a dress or look good in a swimsuit in a month. There are people who understand weight loss is about calories and restrict below the recommended minimums to get faster losses and don't care about nutritional goals much. It is kind of like people abusing drugs or something. They know it could be bad for them someday but don't care.

    I think the article hit the "you should eat nutritious foods and exercise too" idea but tried to make it seem too much like weight management through calories was less important to health than nutrition long term. I don't think the article convinced me that is the case with the way it was written. If some studies had been cited it might have been more convincing than quotes from nutritionists or dieticians.

    CICO is not a fad diet. It is a formula describing weight management. You have to adjust your CICO to meet whatever weight goal you have.
    You can lose weight in a healthy way. You can lose weight in an unhealthy way. Both require a calorie deficit.
    Weight management is a big part of health. Nutrition and exercise are pretty important for other aspects of health and satisfaction.
    Eating enough calories and a variety of foods from all the food groups is a damn good idea if you want to be healthy. Cake should not make up the bulk of your calories daily- particularly if your calorie goal is 1200 calories.

    I think it's all this nonsense:
    http://www.health.com/weight-loss/cico-diet
    https://www.today.com/health/could-cico-diet-calories-calories-out-help-you-lose-weight-t119599
    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-cico-diet-2017-11
    http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/11/12/most-popular-weight-loss-diet-on-reddit-would-never-be-recommended-by-nutritionists.html

    Apparently they aren't just talking CICO, they are talking about 'the CiCo Diet' and the assumption is that when told to eat what we want, we will all want to eat nothing but junk food.
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
    And none of them seem to have a comments section... :(
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    Where is the writer getting that CICO is a diet fad from? Is there are study or survey or "All Cake CICO diet plan" book they can point to? Or are they just annoyed by a couple of people they know who insist they can eat dessert and still lose weight while they know you have to suck down green smoothies and eat tons of plain chicken and eggs?

    There are certainly people who do not particularly care about long term health when losing weight. They just want to be a number on the scale, fit a dress or look good in a swimsuit in a month. There are people who understand weight loss is about calories and restrict below the recommended minimums to get faster losses and don't care about nutritional goals much. It is kind of like people abusing drugs or something. They know it could be bad for them someday but don't care.

    I think the article hit the "you should eat nutritious foods and exercise too" idea but tried to make it seem too much like weight management through calories was less important to health than nutrition long term. I don't think the article convinced me that is the case with the way it was written. If some studies had been cited it might have been more convincing than quotes from nutritionists or dieticians.

    CICO is not a fad diet. It is a formula describing weight management. You have to adjust your CICO to meet whatever weight goal you have.
    You can lose weight in a healthy way. You can lose weight in an unhealthy way. Both require a calorie deficit.
    Weight management is a big part of health. Nutrition and exercise are pretty important for other aspects of health and satisfaction.
    Eating enough calories and a variety of foods from all the food groups is a damn good idea if you want to be healthy. Cake should not make up the bulk of your calories daily- particularly if your calorie goal is 1200 calories.

    I think it's all this nonsense:
    http://www.health.com/weight-loss/cico-diet
    https://www.today.com/health/could-cico-diet-calories-calories-out-help-you-lose-weight-t119599
    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-cico-diet-2017-11
    http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/11/12/most-popular-weight-loss-diet-on-reddit-would-never-be-recommended-by-nutritionists.html

    Apparently they aren't just talking CICO, they are talking about 'the CiCo Diet' and the assumption is that when told to eat what we want, we will all want to eat nothing but junk food.

    I'm not one to wear tin foil hats, but I really have to question exactly what or who is behind this spate of articles taking this slant.

    I don't know if it started there, but it seems to be all the rage on Reddit.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited December 2017
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    Where is the writer getting that CICO is a diet fad from? Is there are study or survey or "All Cake CICO diet plan" book they can point to? Or are they just annoyed by a couple of people they know who insist they can eat dessert and still lose weight while they know you have to suck down green smoothies and eat tons of plain chicken and eggs?

    There are certainly people who do not particularly care about long term health when losing weight. They just want to be a number on the scale, fit a dress or look good in a swimsuit in a month. There are people who understand weight loss is about calories and restrict below the recommended minimums to get faster losses and don't care about nutritional goals much. It is kind of like people abusing drugs or something. They know it could be bad for them someday but don't care.

    I think the article hit the "you should eat nutritious foods and exercise too" idea but tried to make it seem too much like weight management through calories was less important to health than nutrition long term. I don't think the article convinced me that is the case with the way it was written. If some studies had been cited it might have been more convincing than quotes from nutritionists or dieticians.

    CICO is not a fad diet. It is a formula describing weight management. You have to adjust your CICO to meet whatever weight goal you have.
    You can lose weight in a healthy way. You can lose weight in an unhealthy way. Both require a calorie deficit.
    Weight management is a big part of health. Nutrition and exercise are pretty important for other aspects of health and satisfaction.
    Eating enough calories and a variety of foods from all the food groups is a damn good idea if you want to be healthy. Cake should not make up the bulk of your calories daily- particularly if your calorie goal is 1200 calories.

    I think it's all this nonsense:
    http://www.health.com/weight-loss/cico-diet
    https://www.today.com/health/could-cico-diet-calories-calories-out-help-you-lose-weight-t119599
    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-cico-diet-2017-11
    http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/11/12/most-popular-weight-loss-diet-on-reddit-would-never-be-recommended-by-nutritionists.html

    Apparently they aren't just talking CICO, they are talking about 'the CiCo Diet' and the assumption is that when told to eat what we want, we will all want to eat nothing but junk food.

    I'm not one to wear tin foil hats, but I really have to question exactly what or who is behind this spate of articles taking this slant.

    I don't know if it started there, but it seems to be all the rage on Reddit.

    Reddit for having the silly take that CICO is a fad diet?

    I meant the spate of articles that hit the blogs. That's what I was wondering about. They all seemed the same. Sometimes the nutritionist was different, but they all had the same general drift.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    Where is the writer getting that CICO is a diet fad from? Is there are study or survey or "All Cake CICO diet plan" book they can point to? Or are they just annoyed by a couple of people they know who insist they can eat dessert and still lose weight while they know you have to suck down green smoothies and eat tons of plain chicken and eggs?

    There are certainly people who do not particularly care about long term health when losing weight. They just want to be a number on the scale, fit a dress or look good in a swimsuit in a month. There are people who understand weight loss is about calories and restrict below the recommended minimums to get faster losses and don't care about nutritional goals much. It is kind of like people abusing drugs or something. They know it could be bad for them someday but don't care.

    I think the article hit the "you should eat nutritious foods and exercise too" idea but tried to make it seem too much like weight management through calories was less important to health than nutrition long term. I don't think the article convinced me that is the case with the way it was written. If some studies had been cited it might have been more convincing than quotes from nutritionists or dieticians.

    CICO is not a fad diet. It is a formula describing weight management. You have to adjust your CICO to meet whatever weight goal you have.
    You can lose weight in a healthy way. You can lose weight in an unhealthy way. Both require a calorie deficit.
    Weight management is a big part of health. Nutrition and exercise are pretty important for other aspects of health and satisfaction.
    Eating enough calories and a variety of foods from all the food groups is a damn good idea if you want to be healthy. Cake should not make up the bulk of your calories daily- particularly if your calorie goal is 1200 calories.

    I think it's all this nonsense:
    http://www.health.com/weight-loss/cico-diet
    https://www.today.com/health/could-cico-diet-calories-calories-out-help-you-lose-weight-t119599
    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-cico-diet-2017-11
    http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/11/12/most-popular-weight-loss-diet-on-reddit-would-never-be-recommended-by-nutritionists.html

    Apparently they aren't just talking CICO, they are talking about 'the CiCo Diet' and the assumption is that when told to eat what we want, we will all want to eat nothing but junk food.

    I'm not one to wear tin foil hats, but I really have to question exactly what or who is behind this spate of articles taking this slant.

    I don't know if it started there, but it seems to be all the rage on Reddit.

    Reddit for having the silly take that CICO is a fad diet?

    I meant the spate of articles that hit the blogs. That's what I was wondering about. They all seemed the same. Sometimes the nutritionist was different, but they all had the same general drift.

    OIC I have no idea.
  • davidylin
    davidylin Posts: 228 Member
    The entire article is untrue. CICO is not a fad, nor is it a diet. CICO is not defined by any authoritative body.

    CICO is loosely defined as describing a model where the calories being consumed is being compared to the calories being expended and expelled.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.

    4.6 percent of the US population (over 12 yo) has hypothyroidism
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.

    4.6 percent of the US population (over 12 yo) has hypothyroidism

    Treated vs untreated? And it makes something like 5% difference to caloric needs when untreated. If levels are regulated then it makes no difference.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.

    4.6 percent of the US population (over 12 yo) has hypothyroidism

    And the percentage who have hypothyroidism to the point that it's an impact to weightloss is likely statistically insignificant.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Re hypothyroid, wouldn't the solution be to be medicated, not to eat a specific diet? Of course, if a doctor suggested a particular diet as a help for controlling it, I'd do it, but I see that as a medical issue, not a basis for saying CICO is false or a calorie deficit is a bad approach to weight loss.

    Re leptin, leptin resistance is not, to my knowledge helped by changing the diet. It IS helped by exercising.

    Re insulin, it doesn't affect weight loss, although it might affect hunger/energy (same with leptin, actually, the concern is affect on hunger). Eating foods that are satiating is something recommended by everyone and people should experiment to see what works for them. IR tends to go away for a huge percentage of people with weight loss.

    Low T, I wouldn't know, I'm a woman, I probably naturally have low T, and I lost fine.

    PCOS is an issue when it goes along with IR, as it often (not always) does. As for IR, see above.
  • liftingbro
    liftingbro Posts: 2,029 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.

    Yes, there is.

    Leptin and insulin resistance are very common in obese people.

    Low testosterone and PCOS are fairly common.

    These things don't keep people from losing weight altogether but certainly can make it slower.

    Leptin drops when you lose weight which can decrease thyroid function and increase muscle efficiency so your BMR drops quite a bir. It's one of the causes of plateaus.

    Go read the refeeds and diet breaks thread.

    Yes! Refeeds can help leptin levels.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    liftingbro wrote: »
    When I talked about hormones earlier it may have confused some.

    Having a hormone imbalance doesn't invalidate the basic principles of calories in, calories out. What hormone imbalacesdo is changes the math. Because of an imbalance you may need to eat less to lose weight or you may store calories as fat easier. Calories still matter but knowing how many you burn gets way more tricky with an imbalance.

    Is there a statistically significant percentage of the population with hormonal issues so pronounced that it is significantly impacting weight loss? I see it come up a lot in the forums when people want to push back about the simplicity of CICO (whether you agree with it or not) from some quarters but never see this extrapolate to the real world.

    4.6 percent of the US population (over 12 yo) has hypothyroidism

    And the percentage who have hypothyroidism to the point that it's an impact to weightloss is likely statistically insignificant.

    Perhaps so.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    When people view any issue in only black and white terms they miss the bigger picture. I think people just starting might realize that if that eat a lot of sugar one time and it fills up their calories for the day and they get hungry later that maybe reducing the portion of sugar is a better idea. They learn what foods satiate them and learn portion control by learning what 100 calories of something looks like. Everything is a fad diet if you don't learn from it and don't incorporate it into a lifelong maintenance plan.

    Yes, this exactly! I'm not sure there is anything wrong with telling people that they can eat whatever they want and still lose weight as long as CI<CO. It's a true statement and could be very beneficial. I've read posts from people on MFP that say they really did not know it was that simple.

    As you say, even if someone did take that and try to lose weight eating only junk food they'll likely learn pretty quickly that you don't get to eat much when all your food is high calorie and learn to add other stuff in.

    And if they don't, they'll still lose weight. It's better to be at a healthy weight eating junk than overweight and eating junk.
  • Evamutt
    Evamutt Posts: 2,797 Member
    does this mean I shouldn't be having french toast any more?
  • Rickster1967
    Rickster1967 Posts: 485 Member
    edited December 2017
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    When people view any issue in only black and white terms they miss the bigger picture. I think people just starting might realize that if that eat a lot of sugar one time and it fills up their calories for the day and they get hungry later that maybe reducing the portion of sugar is a better idea. They learn what foods satiate them and learn portion control by learning what 100 calories of something looks like. Everything is a fad diet if you don't learn from it and don't incorporate it into a lifelong maintenance plan.

    Yes, this exactly! I'm not sure there is anything wrong with telling people that they can eat whatever they want and still lose weight as long as CI<CO. It's a true statement and could be very beneficial. I've read posts from people on MFP that say they really did not know it was that simple.

    As you say, even if someone did take that and try to lose weight eating only junk food they'll likely learn pretty quickly that you don't get to eat much when all your food is high calorie and learn to add other stuff in.

    And if they don't, they'll still lose weight. It's better to be at a healthy weight eating junk than overweight and eating junk.

    This is exactly right.

    When my Personal Trainer told me to eat 2000 cals a day I never thought I'd manage (I weighed 292lbs at the time)

    but by learning to eat foods that fill me up and nourish me I manage it quite easily now
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Rickster1967 wrote: »
    Obese men, like me, especially over 50 have major hormonal issues

    Low T is only one element. High estrogen levels due to increased aromatase production, low dopamine,
    elevated prolactin levels plus all the leptin & insulin resistance that occurs

    So, in my case, in addition to controlling my calorie intake I have been using all manner of protocols to raise T, lower estradiol, lower prolactin, block aromatase, increase insulin sensitivity and I will be doing re-feeds at some point to deal with falling leptin

    However, none of those things would create weight loss if I were eating more calories than I burn

    Yes -- this is a good illustration of how focusing on a calorie deficit by no means prevents you from also doing other good things for your health.

    The idea that if someone focuses on a calorie deficit and realizes you can lose weight eating anything that they will eat a bad diet as a result is just so weird to me.
  • Rickster1967
    Rickster1967 Posts: 485 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Rickster1967 wrote: »
    Obese men, like me, especially over 50 have major hormonal issues

    Low T is only one element. High estrogen levels due to increased aromatase production, low dopamine,
    elevated prolactin levels plus all the leptin & insulin resistance that occurs

    So, in my case, in addition to controlling my calorie intake I have been using all manner of protocols to raise T, lower estradiol, lower prolactin, block aromatase, increase insulin sensitivity and I will be doing re-feeds at some point to deal with falling leptin

    However, none of those things would create weight loss if I were eating more calories than I burn

    Yes -- this is a good illustration of how focusing on a calorie deficit by no means prevents you from also doing other good things for your health.

    The idea that if someone focuses on a calorie deficit and realizes you can lose weight eating anything that they will eat a bad diet as a result is just so weird to me.

    it was the bad diet that got me sick, fat and nearly dead

    anyone knows that if you're going to successfully lose weight you need to make healthier choices, after all a lot of obese / overweight people will have been yo-yo dieters (I was) before starting their current weight loss efforts

    I have promised myself this is the last time I will lose weight. Get to target then maintain using CICO
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