Calorie count or Keto?

2

Replies

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I eat mostly complex carbohydrates...I'm not keto by any stretch. I eat oats pretty much everyday for breakfast...I'm at 27 grams right there...I typically have some kind of starch like potato or sweet potato for lunch or rice or quinoa or beans or lentils or similar...same for dinner. I eat a ton of veg and a couple servings of fruit...

    I don't think you can really say that keto is just keeping to complex carbohydrates...I'm well over the 50 grams...or it seems more like 20 grams these days. When you're restricting carbs to those levels, you've all but eliminated them...
  • xhunter561
    xhunter561 Posts: 77 Member
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    strawberries, black berries, ect you can when your adapted. for me anything over 20g of net carb/simple carbs/sugars in general is too high or at lest for me. If I go over the 20g I normally start getting bad pains as well as bad headaches I am just the type of person who can't have that type of stuff if i want to be healthy. That and I think with the vegan diet that I tried it was high in plant proteins which i can't have in large amounts unless i want bad kidney pain. When I have days that I do workouts I can sometimes get away with a little more but that's rather rare like this week where i was at lest able to get my 40 miles in without freezing rain or work. But I normally stay away from fruits and a certain veggies because of my systems intolerance to them.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    Your first link demonstrates greater fat burning not endurance performance. This is no surprise. They ingest more fat. They burn dietary fat not body fat.

    A quote from the 2nd link.
    In one of the longest ketogenic diet studies to date, Zinn et al, used aged endurance athletes (Zinn et al., 2017). They found a decrease in performance using several tests such as time to exhaustion, Vo2 max, and peak power.

    The keto endurance studies are a mixed bag. Many of them have very small sample sizes and are relatively short in duration

    If it's what you prefer, great. But what you posted doesn't demonstrate an advantage of keto for endurance athletes.

    I would also add to this that high end athletes are pretty much narcotic about anything that could give them even a hint of an advantage when it comes to diet and training, supplementation, and anything else...if keto truly showed a viable performance advantage, we'd see a lot more than just a handful of articles and studies...like every athlete out there would be on the band wagon.

    Because of where I train, I'm around a lot of top level amateur athletes looking to go pro and a handful of pros...most of them are cyclists or BMX riders...some of the train for periods of time with keto (mostly the cyclists), but not full time...it's just a small part of their training protocol...none of them race keto. I only know one guy who races keto and he's an ultra athlete and runs like 100 miles at a pop...he doesn't have to go fast, he mostly just has to endure the miles...but even then, he's not full time keto.

    Yep, Matt Fitzgerald explores this in his book "The Endurance Diet." Elite athletes get a chance to see each other's routines during international competition. If keto (or any other specialized diet) did offer an edge to elite athletes, you'd expect to see it spread through their community pretty quickly. But we haven't seen that.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    Your first link demonstrates greater fat burning not endurance performance. This is no surprise. They ingest more fat. They burn dietary fat not body fat.

    A quote from the 2nd link.
    In one of the longest ketogenic diet studies to date, Zinn et al, used aged endurance athletes (Zinn et al., 2017). They found a decrease in performance using several tests such as time to exhaustion, Vo2 max, and peak power.

    The keto endurance studies are a mixed bag. Many of them have very small sample sizes and are relatively short in duration

    If it's what you prefer, great. But what you posted doesn't demonstrate an advantage of keto for endurance athletes.

    I would also add to this that high end athletes are pretty much narcotic about anything that could give them even a hint of an advantage when it comes to diet and training, supplementation, and anything else...if keto truly showed a viable performance advantage, we'd see a lot more than just a handful of articles and studies...like every athlete out there would be on the band wagon.

    Because of where I train, I'm around a lot of top level amateur athletes looking to go pro and a handful of pros...most of them are cyclists or BMX riders...some of the train for periods of time with keto (mostly the cyclists), but not full time...it's just a small part of their training protocol...none of them race keto. I only know one guy who races keto and he's an ultra athlete and runs like 100 miles at a pop...he doesn't have to go fast, he mostly just has to endure the miles...but even then, he's not full time keto.

    Yep, Matt Fitzgerald explores this in his book "The Endurance Diet." Elite athletes get a chance to see each other's routines during international competition. If keto (or any other specialized diet) did offer an edge to elite athletes, you'd expect to see it spread through their community pretty quickly. But we haven't seen that.

    Like wild fire...the guys I'm around are like white on rice when it looks like something could give them even just a hint of advantage over the other guy...
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    strawberries, black berries, ect you can when your adapted. for me anything over 20g of net carb/simple carbs/sugars in general is too high or at lest for me. If I go over the 20g I normally start getting bad pains as well as bad headaches I am just the type of person who can't have that type of stuff if i want to be healthy. That and I think with the vegan diet that I tried it was high in plant proteins which i can't have in large amounts unless i want bad kidney pain. When I have days that I do workouts I can sometimes get away with a little more but that's rather rare like this week where i was at lest able to get my 40 miles in without freezing rain or work. But I normally stay away from fruits and a certain veggies because of my systems intolerance to them.

    So if keto does allow one to consume fruit (which contains simple carbohydrates) in a limited quantity in some circumstances and if it restricts complex carbohydrates, I don't understand the claim that keto is "removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones." It would probably be more accurate to stay that both simple and complex carbohydrates are limited on keto. Bread, for example, is a complex carbohydrate. But most people on keto couldn't consume very much at all before they began taking themselves out of the ketogenic state.

    I'm not familiar with the mechanism that would have protein from plants -- specifically -- cause kidney pain. Protein from plants is made up of the same amino acids that make up protein from animal sources.

    Vegans and non-vegans are getting their protein from the same collections of amino acids. There may be specific plant foods that individuals don't tolerate well, but the protein itself . . . I don't see how that could be an issue for you.

    All to a extent would probably been better for me to have said, I normally try for removing as many as I can without skimping on my other nutrition needs. But fruits are much more likely to push someone out of keto than that of the complex carbs from veggies. Their are a lot of people out there that do keto that just don't prefer eating fruits unless it's like a hass avacodo or something lower on the Glycemic Index like strawberries. But I just can't have the high plant protein and that is the major thing in common when i do have that problem. Once it happened after trying pea protein in my shake (whole scoop) and a few hours after the pain started I peed blood. the other time was when i was trying to transfer over to more plant based proteins (hemp seeds, almond butters, ect).

    People on keto may prefer certain fruits over others or may prefer not to have fruit at all. That isn't really the topic though: what was being discussed was the claim that keto involved eliminating simple carbohydrates. It doesn't. If someone wants some berries (or another food with simple carbohydrates) and they choose a portion size that fits in their goals, it is perfectly compatible with staying on keto.

    If there was blood in my urine, I think I would get that checked out. I wouldn't use self-diagnosis. This doesn't sound like a problem with protein, it sounds like something else may be going on.
  • augustremulous
    augustremulous Posts: 378 Member
    Keto is my "back up" diet. I read that it's good to have a back up diet if you feel like giving in.

    I do mostly plant based foods, and have found that the most important thing for me is to get at least 25 grams of fiber per day. That's proven to be more valuable to both my weight loss and overall wellness.

    However, every once in awhile I just feel "goddamn it, I don't want any more healthy food!" and I look at all my piles of concentrated veggie soups and no-dressing salads and feel this wave of disgust, lol. And on those days I just switch to keto and it doesn't throw me off my game, and it's very satisfying and enjoyable.

    No idea how it works long term, though. Haven't tried it long term.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    No, you can consume simple carbs within the (low) limit, as janejellyroll noted (and as one can see if one follows real life people doing keto). You also must limit complex carbs (like roasted potatoes, oats, bread!, even legumes). Heck, some consider keto under 20 net carbs (some even do under 20 total), and I'd have to strictly limit even vegetables on that.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    mcafton wrote: »
    I started out here counting calories, but stalled out. I exercise 3 or 4 days a week and in the summer bike a lot. I probably ride between 60 and 100 miles a week. I had lost around 20 pounds, then stalled. I hadn't been counting my calories as well and would really take advantage of the 1000 or so calorie burn bike rides as an excuse to eat more. I then decided to cut carbs way back, and have lost a few pounds, but not what I was expecting. Some people on the keto diets seem to lose weight so quickly. My carbs are way down, but I'm wondering if I'm eating too many calories. I also worry about cholesterol going up from long term fatty diet. I'm thinking about going back to calorie counting and being more strict. Just wondering what some of you think of as the pros and cons of calories vs keto. If I cheat with calorie counting that's a bad day, but if I cheat on the low carb diet it takes a week or so to get back to where I was and recoup.

    I've gone from moderately low carb for weight loss by cutting out sweet treats (because I am lousy at moderating them) to keto (<20 carb grams) for 52 weeks as a trial for my neurological movement disorder to currently very low carb/high fat (most of 2017).

    During all ways of eating I have counted calories. My experience with keto was the lchf combination was great for suppressing my hunger and cravings for sweets. That was not the case my 1st 2 years of maintenance via considerably higher carb and lower fat. I was always hungry. For this reason, I continued throughout 2017 eating ~50 grams of carbs and ~100 each of fat and protein. LCHF. Some would call it keto but I've not tested ketone levels. The hunger suppression and lack of interest in sweets is what interests me.

    Eating keto or very low carb for me is fairly easy because most of my eating is at home. When eating VL carb is not practical or convenient (maybe 30 times a year), I eat "whatever" but keep calories in mind. I've not experienced significant temporary water weight gain on my higher carb days but I've never gone crazy with it either. Because calories. Calories remain important to me for maintenance. A very low carb way of eating helps me adhere to my low calorie amount as an older female who doesn't get a lot of exercise. My involuntary movement makes exercise awkward and uncomfortable but doesn't burn many calories. :)
  • CaraMerced
    CaraMerced Posts: 50 Member
    mcafton wrote: »
    I started out here counting calories, but stalled out. I exercise 3 or 4 days a week and in the summer bike a lot. I probably ride between 60 and 100 miles a week. I had lost around 20 pounds, then stalled. I hadn't been counting my calories as well and would really take advantage of the 1000 or so calorie burn bike rides as an excuse to eat more. I then decided to cut carbs way back, and have lost a few pounds, but not what I was expecting. Some people on the keto diets seem to lose weight so quickly. My carbs are way down, but I'm wondering if I'm eating too many calories. I also worry about cholesterol going up from long term fatty diet. I'm thinking about going back to calorie counting and being more strict. Just wondering what some of you think of as the pros and cons of calories vs keto. If I cheat with calorie counting that's a bad day, but if I cheat on the low carb diet it takes a week or so to get back to where I was and recoup.
    Keto is a great way to eat in so many ways. Ive lost over 100 pounds since January and i have never felt better! The thing about keto is that people wrongly assune that calories dont matter while on it. This isnt true at all. Calories always matter. What is inportant is how your macros are set up. I highly suggest checking out ketogains macro calulator and using those macros for 6 weeks before you make a decision on if it works or not. I count macros ( its calories) and i make sure to fall within them. Yes- cheat days turn into a bloated and nasty mess on keto because carbs will make you retain water etc. ive binged on carbs and also binged on keto foods as well. My diary is open and would love to help anyone/anyway i can.

  • lucerorojo
    lucerorojo Posts: 790 Member
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    I was a vegan for 3 years (about 20 years ago). Everything I ate was a plant or plant derivative: fruit, vegetable or legume, nuts. How can a vegan diet NOT be high carbohydrate? Is the person subsisting on olive oil? peanut butter?? avocados? What does a moderate or lo carb vegan diet look like?
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    lucerorojo wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    I was a vegan for 3 years (about 20 years ago). Everything I ate was a plant or plant derivative: fruit, vegetable or legume, nuts. How can a vegan diet NOT be high carbohydrate? Is the person subsisting on olive oil? peanut butter?? avocados? What does a moderate or lo carb vegan diet look like?

    A ketogenic vegan diet is tough but can be done. Vegetarian is somewhat easier... from what I understand. My diet is fairly animal product heavy so I have not tried this out.

    Here are some links that the Low Carber Daily group put together for those who are interested in vegan or vegetarian very LCHF:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
    http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
    http://veganhealth.org/
    http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
    http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
    http://healthygamergirl.com/
    http://www.theveganrd.com/
    https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
    https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
    https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
    http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
    http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
    http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
    https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lucerorojo wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    I was a vegan for 3 years (about 20 years ago). Everything I ate was a plant or plant derivative: fruit, vegetable or legume, nuts. How can a vegan diet NOT be high carbohydrate? Is the person subsisting on olive oil? peanut butter?? avocados? What does a moderate or lo carb vegan diet look like?

    Probably depends on how one is defining "high carb." You can certainly eat within the normally recommended range for carbs (which I wouldn't call high carb), while getting enough fat to be not low fat, and moderate (not low) protein, which is more along the lines of what I thought janejellyroll was talking about, not low carbing.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    lucerorojo wrote: »
    xhunter561 wrote: »
    sllm1 wrote: »
    I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

    Calories all the way.

    your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

    mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

    but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

    I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

    By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

    I was a vegan for 3 years (about 20 years ago). Everything I ate was a plant or plant derivative: fruit, vegetable or legume, nuts. How can a vegan diet NOT be high carbohydrate? Is the person subsisting on olive oil? peanut butter?? avocados? What does a moderate or lo carb vegan diet look like?

    Vegan keto can be done if protein powder is used, I would think. Fats would come from avocado, nut butters, and you could have greens and olive oil to round out the diet and keep carbs to keto levels.

    Vegetarian low carb would be a lot easier with eggs and dairy and keeping carbs around 100 or so net grams. I sometimes hit that just on days when I have a migraine naturally from not feeling well and having a low calorie allowance and wanting to eat all my veggies.