Calorie count or Keto?

Early in the thread was some good information, IMO. You'll need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight on a ketogenic diet - any diet really - but some people find they naturally eat less when low carb, or that there may be a very small faster rate of losing a a certain calorie level (slightly elevated calories burned).

Athletic performance tends to dip slightly in the first few months on a ketogenic diet while one becomes fat adapted. After that, it tends to even out with a possible slight advantage to endurance athletes and a possible slight disadvantage to athletes who rely on explosive, quick movements.

Atkins or Keto Clarity are easy to read places to start. For more science, try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (both by Phinney and Volek), and the Ketogenic Bible. Peter Attia has a great blog on why cholesterol is not a problem on a low carb diet (unless you have familial hypercholesterolemia affecting it). Tuit Nutrition is quite good too.

Also the Low Carber Daily and Keto MFP groups can help you out a lot
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

I want to try Keto but the side effects are awful. Bad breath, hair loss, possible saggy skin and Ketones are known toxic to the brain if uncontrolled. I modified my diet into high fiber, high protein, low glycemic carb sources and low but healthy fat (olive oil). I eat fruits and vegetables daily. Carbs with black or wild rice. Protein- chicken, turkey and salmon. With this diet, I can exercise for more than 2 hours and my hypertension and early signs of Diabetes was fading away. From systolic 160-180, now its around 110-120. I already lost 27 lbs in less than 2 months and I feel a lot better and healthier. Their are tons of healthy food out there. Maybe limit your calories to around 1600.

nvmomketo wrote: »

Early in the thread was some good information, IMO. You'll need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight on a ketogenic diet - any diet really - but some people find they naturally eat less when low carb, or that there may be a very small faster rate of losing a a certain calorie level (slightly elevated calories burned).

Athletic performance tends to dip slightly in the first few months on a ketogenic diet while one becomes fat adapted. After that, it tends to even out with a possible slight advantage to endurance athletes and a possible slight disadvantage to athletes who rely on explosive, quick movements.

Atkins or Keto Clarity are easy to read places to start. For more science, try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (both by Phinney and Volek), and the Ketogenic Bible. Peter Attia has a great blog on why cholesterol is not a problem on a low carb diet (unless you have familial hypercholesterolemia affecting it). Tuit Nutrition is quite good too.

Also the Low Carber Daily and Keto MFP groups can help you out a lot
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

Please post credible studies that indicate any improved performance for endurance athletes. This was discussed in depth in a thread you participated in last week where you made this same claim. All you posted in support was 1 study that did not substantiate your claim while others posted mulitple ones that disproved it. Most elite endurance athletes who practice keto, carb load before competitions due to performance fall off from keto.

manleyr14 wrote: »

Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung on how weight gain and loss is driven by the hormone insulin, NOT thermogenically by calories. The keto way of eating is about keeping insulin under control so it is the total carbs consumed along with just moderate protein and 65%-80% total daily calories from fat that drives the bodies ability to heal maladies and lose weight. Most people who eat keto stay near their TDEE as part of their eating plan.

Absolute nonsense...

mcafton wrote: »

I started out here counting calories, but stalled out. I exercise 3 or 4 days a week and in the summer bike a lot. I probably ride between 60 and 100 miles a week. I had lost around 20 pounds, then stalled. I hadn't been counting my calories as well and would really take advantage of the 1000 or so calorie burn bike rides as an excuse to eat more. I then decided to cut carbs way back, and have lost a few pounds, but not what I was expecting. Some people on the keto diets seem to lose weight so quickly. My carbs are way down, but I'm wondering if I'm eating too many calories. I also worry about cholesterol going up from long term fatty diet. I'm thinking about going back to calorie counting and being more strict. Just wondering what some of you think of as the pros and cons of calories vs keto. If I cheat with calorie counting that's a bad day, but if I cheat on the low carb diet it takes a week or so to get back to where I was and recoup.

please keep in mind the more you do a particular exercise the less your body burns or needs to burn over time to preform if its part of your normal schedule. This and the fact you may be eating too much protein or too much fat (basically yes probably too much calories). what i would suggest is cutting back on the fats just a little to make your body focus on using its body fat. If it's not that then the artificial sweeteners like sucrose, dextrose, ect. When i had started keto about a year back i did a lot of the sugar free jellos and rip-its and they always stalled my weight loss when i was losing.

main tips
.be mindful of your workouts, your after the after burn not so much as what you burn during the workout
.Cycle artificial sweeteners out for two weeks to see if that works
.Drop you fat Consumption for about 2 weeks to see what happens.
.monitor your stress and reduce the amount of time your shocking your body because shocking your body will make it hold onto everything it has.

mmapags wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

Early in the thread was some good information, IMO. You'll need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight on a ketogenic diet - any diet really - but some people find they naturally eat less when low carb, or that there may be a very small faster rate of losing a a certain calorie level (slightly elevated calories burned).

Athletic performance tends to dip slightly in the first few months on a ketogenic diet while one becomes fat adapted. After that, it tends to even out with a possible slight advantage to endurance athletes and a possible slight disadvantage to athletes who rely on explosive, quick movements.

Atkins or Keto Clarity are easy to read places to start. For more science, try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (both by Phinney and Volek), and the Ketogenic Bible. Peter Attia has a great blog on why cholesterol is not a problem on a low carb diet (unless you have familial hypercholesterolemia affecting it). Tuit Nutrition is quite good too.

Also the Low Carber Daily and Keto MFP groups can help you out a lot
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

Please post credible studies that indicate any improved performance for endurance athletes. This was discussed in depth in a thread you participated in last week where you made this same claim. All you posted in support was 1 study that did not substantiate your claim while others posted mulitple ones that disproved it. Most elite endurance athletes who practice keto, carb load before competitions due to performance fall off from keto.

keto done right has the potential to boost endurance sports the only thing is it can take a little longer to improve speed given the fact its more of a steady source of energy not so much as explosive as glucose unless the said person eats a small bit of simple carbs before the workout to get a small boost. But it takes doing keto and tracking just to see the improvements though for me their was a small dip for about two months before it went up higher.

I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

Calories all the way.

xhunter561 wrote: »

sllm1 wrote: »

I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

Calories all the way.

your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

xhunter561 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

xhunter561 wrote: »

sllm1 wrote: »

I see no reason to restrict an entire macro (which I personally would not be able to sustain) when I can just count calories and eat what I enjoy.

Calories all the way.

your not completely restricting them. your just removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones.

mmapags: sense being on keto i have been doing a average of 30 to 40 mile runs each week when it's not sleeting, having over time, or just being busy.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151117091234.htm one study but note that it was a test of high carb against keto BUT they used athletic adults on both.

http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/#Keto_and_athletic_performance is another interesting one

but as for keto and endurance from a personal stand point using fat as a primary source of energy helps a lot, reduces burnouts, and you can just keep going and going till your legs start hurting or you get bored. but this can differ between people and their genetics and if they work better with high carb or high fat or those that cycle carbs just before a workout and cycle low to no carbs in their rest. I personally don't do go with any type of high carb diets (mainly referring to fruit only diets and vegan diets, both of which made me sick) But keto is just one type and there are going to be those that it will not help at all its just a thing of figuring out what your body works best with.

I wasn't aware that keto didn't allow simple carbohydrates -- I thought sometimes people ate berries on keto?

By the way, veganism wouldn't be classified as a high carbohydrate diet by definition. It can -- like a non-vegan diet -- be high in carbohydrates. But there are also vegans who do moderate carbohydrate or even low carbohydrate. I'm not sure how veganism -- in and of itself -- could have made you ill, although it's certainly possible for vegans (like non-vegans) to eat a diet that doesn't meet their nutritional needs and/or leads to illness.

strawberries, black berries, ect you can when your adapted. for me anything over 20g of net carb/simple carbs/sugars in general is too high or at lest for me. If I go over the 20g I normally start getting bad pains as well as bad headaches I am just the type of person who can't have that type of stuff if i want to be healthy. That and I think with the vegan diet that I tried it was high in plant proteins which i can't have in large amounts unless i want bad kidney pain. When I have days that I do workouts I can sometimes get away with a little more but that's rather rare like this week where i was at lest able to get my 40 miles in without freezing rain or work. But I normally stay away from fruits and a certain veggies because of my systems intolerance to them.

So if keto does allow one to consume fruit (which contains simple carbohydrates) in a limited quantity in some circumstances and if it restricts complex carbohydrates, I don't understand the claim that keto is "removing basically all the simple carbs and keeping the complex ones." It would probably be more accurate to stay that both simple and complex carbohydrates are limited on keto. Bread, for example, is a complex carbohydrate. But most people on keto couldn't consume very much at all before they began taking themselves out of the ketogenic state.

I'm not familiar with the mechanism that would have protein from plants -- specifically -- cause kidney pain. Protein from plants is made up of the same amino acids that make up protein from animal sources.

Vegans and non-vegans are getting their protein from the same collections of amino acids. There may be specific plant foods that individuals don't tolerate well, but the protein itself . . . I don't see how that could be an issue for you.