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Jack Lalanne's Advice

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Replies

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    None of those items were big parts of my diet when I got fat, was fat or when I lost weight, or when I maintain at goal weight.

    This, and therefore I did not GREATLY reduce them (I did reduce some of them some, sure -- I barely bake anymore), and I saw no need to eliminate them. If someone is eating a whole lot of those kinds of foods (canned fruit? that seems dated), then sure, greatly reducing them is common sense. I think it makes MORE sense to focus on eating a balanced, nutrient-dense diet full of things like vegetables, fruit (I don't like canned fruit but don't see why that would be an issue unless sugar is added and it's higher in calories than you realize), protein, healthy sources of fat, whole food or more fibrous sources of carbs (oats, other whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, beans and lentils), and so on. Then (assuming appropriate calories), there's no real need to focus on what you limit, as there's no room for lots of high cal sweets or snack foods. At least, that's what makes sense for me.

    Another more sensible way for me personally to apply this is to focus on my main meals (which generally are made up of nutrient dense foods) and limit between meal eating. Some like snacking, so this wouldn't work for them, but it is far more significant for me than eliminating foods would be.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    I found it interesting that his stand on significantly reducing added sugars 60 years ago is the same as the experts at the WHO and USDA now. I couldn't find the actual video, but the person discussing Jack's views indicated he was recommending reducing these items not total elimination

    It's really not that surprising. Limiting treats/dessert items and added sugar was commonplace advice and part of the nutrition advice 60 years ago too. It's hardly new -- what's new is trying to come up with a specific number.

    Rather than focusing on the average person and specific foods others have issues with, doesn't it make more sense to look at one's own diet to identify sources of excess calories and figure out how to reduce them?
  • saintor1
    saintor1 Posts: 376 Member
    edited December 2017
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    None of those items were big parts of my diet when I got fat, was fat or when I lost weight, or when I maintain at goal weight.

    Pros
    For some people reducing those high calorie items would reduce their calorie load significantly. In the context of a time when calorie counting wasn't easy then it would "work" for those people.

    Cons
    Hadn't realised demonisation of white foods went back that far! Colour of sugar is an irrelevance.
    I'm not a fan of elimination, doubtful it's a sustainable long term strategy for most people.

    Same here.

    While I agree that back in the day it was probably a quick fix for some people to lose weight that way, I don't think that demonizing foods is a sustainable path to weight management.

    Of course those foods by their nature should be limited or reduced as part of one's diet since they don't contain a lot of micronutrients, but completely eliminated?

    Nope. That's not a realistic path.


    You can maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle and still have those things.

    Also, it should be mentioned that Jack LaLane went full potato into endorsing juicing late in life. That puts his reliability as a source for nutrition information into question.

    I'd submit that anybody who has a diet consisting chiefly or mostly of the ten things on LaLanne's list in the OP would most certainly benefit in many ways from improving their dietary habits.

    As usual, context and dosage matter and aren't being considered in the discussion. There's nothing wrong with any of those things on that list in moderation. Should they comprise the entirety or majority of your diet? Not so much.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    None of those items were big parts of my diet when I got fat, was fat or when I lost weight, or when I maintain at goal weight.

    Pros
    For some people reducing those high calorie items would reduce their calorie load significantly. In the context of a time when calorie counting wasn't easy then it would "work" for those people.

    Cons
    Hadn't realised demonisation of white foods went back that far! Colour of sugar is an irrelevance.
    I'm not a fan of elimination, doubtful it's a sustainable long term strategy for most people.

    Same here.

    While I agree that back in the day it was probably a quick fix for some people to lose weight that way, I don't think that demonizing foods is a sustainable path to weight management.

    Of course those foods by their nature should be limited or reduced as part of one's diet since they don't contain a lot of micronutrients, but completely eliminated?

    Nope. That's not a realistic path.


    You can maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle and still have those things.

    Also, it should be mentioned that Jack LaLane went full potato into endorsing juicing late in life. That puts his reliability as a source for nutrition information into question.

    I'd submit that anybody who has a diet consisting chiefly or mostly of the ten things on LaLanne's list in the OP would most certainly benefit in many ways from improving their dietary habits.

    As usual, context and dosage matter and aren't being considered in the discussion. There's nothing wrong with any of those things on that list in moderation. Should they comprise the entirety or majority of your diet? Not so much.

    Yes, there is a *huge* difference between getting most or a big portion of your calories from the things on the list (which would make it challenging for many people to eat an appropriate amount of calories and meet their nutritional needs) and having a diet that sometimes includes those things.

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    LaLanne was a very vocal "clean eating" proponent. Probably to the point of being orthorexic, although I doubt that was recognized as a thing back then.

    To be honest, don't think orthorexic is really a "thing" now. Pretty much the same status as people who compulsively eat too much sugar and say they can't reduce or stop. BTW, IMO sugar addiction is a bunch of crap. People may eat too many sugar laden foods and have bad health outcomes but no physical addiction. Similar to the situation in people with orthorexia.

    https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/orthorexia-nervosa

    Orthorexia nervosa is not currently recognized as a clinical diagnosis in the DSM-5, but many people struggle with symptoms associated with this term.

    Those who have an “unhealthy obsession” with otherwise healthy eating may be suffering from “orthorexia nervosa,” a term which literally means “fixation on righteous eating.”

    I have known people who limit their lives so that they can stick to their diet of choice -- they don't travel because they can't be assured of organic food the whole time or they don't socialize because they can't control the food they will encounter. I don't know if it needs a fancy name, but to the extent that it keeps them from living their best well-rounded life, I would consider it to be a problem.

    Yeah, we want to make good choices, but there is a point of diminishing returns. If you aren't going to visit your grandparents because of the food options in their town, it's a good time to access and see if your diet is driving your happiness and health or if you're just making a fetish of the whole thing.

    We had a lady that worked for our company whose job required traveling and she would not travel anywhere unless she was sure there were organic stores/restaurants in the area. While I thought that seemed a little crazy she was actually a very happy and sweet person. It wasn't a problem to her.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    The graph suggests that dairy and meat have stayed pretty constant over the period being examined.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    Look at the graphs again. They are in their own categories.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    LaLanne was a very vocal "clean eating" proponent. Probably to the point of being orthorexic, although I doubt that was recognized as a thing back then.

    To be honest, don't think orthorexic is really a "thing" now. Pretty much the same status as people who compulsively eat too much sugar and say they can't reduce or stop. BTW, IMO sugar addiction is a bunch of crap. People may eat too many sugar laden foods and have bad health outcomes but no physical addiction. Similar to the situation in people with orthorexia.

    https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/orthorexia-nervosa

    Orthorexia nervosa is not currently recognized as a clinical diagnosis in the DSM-5, but many people struggle with symptoms associated with this term.

    Those who have an “unhealthy obsession” with otherwise healthy eating may be suffering from “orthorexia nervosa,” a term which literally means “fixation on righteous eating.”

    I have known people who limit their lives so that they can stick to their diet of choice -- they don't travel because they can't be assured of organic food the whole time or they don't socialize because they can't control the food they will encounter. I don't know if it needs a fancy name, but to the extent that it keeps them from living their best well-rounded life, I would consider it to be a problem.

    Yeah, we want to make good choices, but there is a point of diminishing returns. If you aren't going to visit your grandparents because of the food options in their town, it's a good time to access and see if your diet is driving your happiness and health or if you're just making a fetish of the whole thing.

    We had a lady that worked for our company whose job required traveling and she would not travel anywhere unless she was sure there were organic stores/restaurants in the area. While I thought that seemed a little crazy she was actually a very happy and sweet person. It wasn't a problem to her.

    I think you can be happy and sweet while dealing with something that limits your life. They don't cancel each other out. I know happy and sweet people who do things like avoid air travel or movie theaters due to anxiety. I wouldn't insist that they seek treatment for this (it's their business), but would they be happier with wider options for travel or entertainment?

    Air travel or group entertainments aren't essential for a happy life, but if you're avoiding them due to anxiety I think that it could contribute to a fuller life if addressed.

    Same with travelling for work. We don't have to do it in order to be happy, but if food is the only reason you're limiting your career that way -- well, it's a limit on your full potential.

    (I say this as someone with anxieties that do limit my full potential range of activities, something I'm working on. That probably colors my perspective here).
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    LaLanne was a very vocal "clean eating" proponent. Probably to the point of being orthorexic, although I doubt that was recognized as a thing back then.

    To be honest, don't think orthorexic is really a "thing" now. Pretty much the same status as people who compulsively eat too much sugar and say they can't reduce or stop. BTW, IMO sugar addiction is a bunch of crap. People may eat too many sugar laden foods and have bad health outcomes but no physical addiction. Similar to the situation in people with orthorexia.

    https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/orthorexia-nervosa

    Orthorexia nervosa is not currently recognized as a clinical diagnosis in the DSM-5, but many people struggle with symptoms associated with this term.

    Those who have an “unhealthy obsession” with otherwise healthy eating may be suffering from “orthorexia nervosa,” a term which literally means “fixation on righteous eating.”

    I have known people who limit their lives so that they can stick to their diet of choice -- they don't travel because they can't be assured of organic food the whole time or they don't socialize because they can't control the food they will encounter. I don't know if it needs a fancy name, but to the extent that it keeps them from living their best well-rounded life, I would consider it to be a problem.

    Yeah, we want to make good choices, but there is a point of diminishing returns. If you aren't going to visit your grandparents because of the food options in their town, it's a good time to access and see if your diet is driving your happiness and health or if you're just making a fetish of the whole thing.

    We had a lady that worked for our company whose job required traveling and she would not travel anywhere unless she was sure there were organic stores/restaurants in the area. While I thought that seemed a little crazy she was actually a very happy and sweet person. It wasn't a problem to her.

    I think you can be happy and sweet while dealing with something that limits your life. They don't cancel each other out. I know happy and sweet people who do things like avoid air travel or movie theaters due to anxiety. I wouldn't insist that they seek treatment for this (it's their business), but would they be happier with wider options for travel or entertainment?

    Air travel or group entertainments aren't essential for a happy life, but if you're avoiding them due to anxiety I think that it could contribute to a fuller life if addressed.

    Same with travelling for work. We don't have to do it in order to be happy, but if food is the only reason you're limiting your career that way -- well, it's a limit on your full potential.

    (I say this as someone with anxieties that do limit my full potential range of activities, something I'm working on. That probably colors my perspective here).

    Yes, I would agree that it may be a problem, but not that it is inherently a problem.
  • saintor1
    saintor1 Posts: 376 Member
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    Look at the graphs again. They are in their own categories.

    The graph you are probably referring to says "Except for fats".

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    LaLanne was a very vocal "clean eating" proponent. Probably to the point of being orthorexic, although I doubt that was recognized as a thing back then.

    To be honest, don't think orthorexic is really a "thing" now. Pretty much the same status as people who compulsively eat too much sugar and say they can't reduce or stop. BTW, IMO sugar addiction is a bunch of crap. People may eat too many sugar laden foods and have bad health outcomes but no physical addiction. Similar to the situation in people with orthorexia.

    https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/orthorexia-nervosa

    Orthorexia nervosa is not currently recognized as a clinical diagnosis in the DSM-5, but many people struggle with symptoms associated with this term.

    Those who have an “unhealthy obsession” with otherwise healthy eating may be suffering from “orthorexia nervosa,” a term which literally means “fixation on righteous eating.”

    I have known people who limit their lives so that they can stick to their diet of choice -- they don't travel because they can't be assured of organic food the whole time or they don't socialize because they can't control the food they will encounter. I don't know if it needs a fancy name, but to the extent that it keeps them from living their best well-rounded life, I would consider it to be a problem.

    Yeah, we want to make good choices, but there is a point of diminishing returns. If you aren't going to visit your grandparents because of the food options in their town, it's a good time to access and see if your diet is driving your happiness and health or if you're just making a fetish of the whole thing.

    We had a lady that worked for our company whose job required traveling and she would not travel anywhere unless she was sure there were organic stores/restaurants in the area. While I thought that seemed a little crazy she was actually a very happy and sweet person. It wasn't a problem to her.

    I think you can be happy and sweet while dealing with something that limits your life. They don't cancel each other out. I know happy and sweet people who do things like avoid air travel or movie theaters due to anxiety. I wouldn't insist that they seek treatment for this (it's their business), but would they be happier with wider options for travel or entertainment?

    Air travel or group entertainments aren't essential for a happy life, but if you're avoiding them due to anxiety I think that it could contribute to a fuller life if addressed.

    Same with travelling for work. We don't have to do it in order to be happy, but if food is the only reason you're limiting your career that way -- well, it's a limit on your full potential.

    (I say this as someone with anxieties that do limit my full potential range of activities, something I'm working on. That probably colors my perspective here).

    Yes, I would agree that it may be a problem, but not that it is inherently a problem.

    I completely agree.
  • vingogly
    vingogly Posts: 1,785 Member
    edited December 2017
    I feel the need to post this, if the OP, as hinted in subsequent posts, is trying to get at the source of why people are so fatty fat fat fat. If you can't read the fine print, the source is NHANES.

    Another presentation of similar data for the U.S.A. using a stacked graph (this presentation shows relative contributions to total daily calories for each source - I've posted this before, I think):

    tcd5pyr700vz.png

    Note that total calorie intake was up in 2010 over 1970, but this was entirely due to added fats and flour/cereal products. It looks like somewhere around 500 cals/day increase in average input - no wonder there's an obesity epidemic in the U.S.A. Calories from sugars, veggies, fruit, dairy, and meat/eggs/nuts were flat during this period.

    The numbers don't exactly match those from the other graphs - they must have used a different methodology (or data source - they're from different governmental agencies). This graph shows calories from grains going up, the others don't.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    saintor1 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    Look at the graphs again. They are in their own categories.

    The graph you are probably referring to says "Except for fats".

    Yes. Dairy and meat are there own category and don't have added fat. I'm not sure where the source of your confusion is. The category that showed an increase was added fats. Dairy and meats are more than just fat, you know.

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited December 2017
    saintor1 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    Look at the graphs again. They are in their own categories.

    The graph you are probably referring to says "Except for fats".

    Yes. Dairy and meat are there own category and don't have added fat. I'm not sure where the source of your confusion is. The category that showed an increase was added fats. Dairy and meats are more than just fat, you know.

    I rest my case. There should have been more type of fats in the 6th graph.

    Why? I get the impression that you are misunderstanding the graph.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    saintor1 wrote: »
    "Salad and cooking oils"? I think that the listing in the 6thgraph is really too short... Where is fat from Cheese and meat.

    Look at the graphs again. They are in their own categories.

    The graph you are probably referring to says "Except for fats".

    Yes. Dairy and meat are there own category and don't have added fat. I'm not sure where the source of your confusion is. The category that showed an increase was added fats. Dairy and meats are more than just fat, you know.

    I rest my case. There should have been more type of fats in the 6th graph.

    Why? I get the impression that you are misunderstanding the graph.

    I think the distinction between *added* fats and fats that are inherent to meat and (non-butter/cream) dairy is potentially causing the confusion?