Concerned advice I was given

jennylynn84

I think something that needs to be kept in mind in all this arguing is that each person responds to food a different way.

Personally, I need carbs and fiber. I couldn't sustain NO carbs. I don't have a lot of bread anymore and very little pasta. Everything I have is whole grain and that's the best way for me to go. Cutting it out altogether isn't realistic for me.

On the flip side Lioness has MANY health problems. Among them, PCOS and apparently an allergy to grain. So what works for her and what her doctors want her on may be the LAST thing someone else's doctor will want them on. PCOS patients are very often told to lower their carb intake. So right there, you've got a reason why this works best for her, even though it might not for you.

But again, if you don't have these health problems then this might not be the lifestyle for you.

Personally I think an extreme view of any doctor or nutrition professional with a book to sell is worth taking with a grain of salt. They have just as much money to gain from convincing anyone as the government does.

And honestly, I think the problem with obesity in this country is the attitude we take towards food and exercise. Plenty of countries across the world incorporate more grain, more fat, etc. And yet we remain one of the most overweight. Why? I think it has to do with our processed food and our lifestyle. 1) No one eats locally. I realize this problem and I STILL don't eat locally because I can't afford it. If you ate locally grown veggies or beef from a local butcher instead of the Target's food, I'm sure you'd do better right away. 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy. 3) That actually brings me to my next point. Living this lifestyle, these days most kids and adults are completely sedentary. Kids are either watching TV while their parents work on the internet, on the internet themselves, etc. Making it to the gym or going for a walk is a luxury! WTF?! Really?

I don't blame high carb, low carb, low fat, whatever kind of diet we're blaming today on how obese America's gotten. I blame it on a lifestyle, which WE have allowed or even helped to become standard.

So that's my rant for the day.

July24Lioness

It's not like I am following the Zero carb diet everyday................LOL. You are on my friends list and you have access to my diary, you can see what I am eating.

Ah, I thought you weren't logging. You mean I could have satisfied my curiosity and avoided ever getting caught up in this thread to begin with?! :laugh:

I don't log everyday...............mostly because I don't care about the calories.............When I do log, it is mostly the days that I do eat a lot of veggies and / or fruit so I can gauge my carb intake and keep it to 50 or below for the day..............

Today is a higher carb day for me. LOL................I had salad and stir fry veggies with home made italian sausage for breakfast, brought salad with grilled chicken for lunch and I am having strawberries and cherries too.

How I eat for a particular day depends on how I feel that day upon waking................But I can say that I am eating meat, chicken and eggs from sources where I know where it came from (right down to the address of the farm) and my fruits and veggies come from local sources too.

I subscribe to a CSA and I have been saying for the last few months how I make almost everything from scratch, even the bread my hubby eats on his sandwiches.

My hubby eats the Atkins way and I have to be a bit stricter due to grain allergies............That is my main reason for switching over from Atkins to Primal and sometimes 0 carb............My decisions are health based. :flowerforyou:

July24Lioness

I think something that needs to be kept in mind in all this arguing is that each person responds to food a different way.

Personally, I need carbs and fiber. I couldn't sustain NO carbs. I don't have a lot of bread anymore and very little pasta. Everything I have is whole grain and that's the best way for me to go. Cutting it out altogether isn't realistic for me.

On the flip side Lioness has MANY health problems. Among them, PCOS and apparently an allergy to grain. So what works for her and what her doctors want her on may be the LAST thing someone else's doctor will want them on. PCOS patients are very often told to lower their carb intake. So right there, you've got a reason why this works best for her, even though it might not for you.

But again, if you don't have these health problems then this might not be the lifestyle for you.

Personally I think an extreme view of any doctor or nutrition professional with a book to sell is worth taking with a grain of salt. They have just as much money to gain from convincing anyone as the government does.

And honestly, I think the problem with obesity in this country is the attitude we take towards food and exercise. Plenty of countries across the world incorporate more grain, more fat, etc. And yet we remain one of the most overweight. Why? I think it has to do with our processed food and our lifestyle. 1) No one eats locally. I realize this problem and I STILL don't eat locally because I can't afford it. If you ate locally grown veggies or beef from a local butcher instead of the Target's food, I'm sure you'd do better right away. 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy. 3) That actually brings me to my next point. Living this lifestyle, these days most kids and adults are completely sedentary. Kids are either watching TV while their parents work on the internet, on the internet themselves, etc. Making it to the gym or going for a walk is a luxury! WTF?! Really?

I don't blame high carb, low carb, low fat, whatever kind of diet we're blaming today on how obese America's gotten. I blame it on a lifestyle, which WE have allowed or even helped to become standard.

So that's my rant for the day.

You are correct in what you are saying about lifestyle..............

Growing up I lived in a rural area and was never aware that my mom raised us on a "low carb" eating plan, it was just the way we ate, which was all natural. We rarely ate out, always had cut up veggies for snacks, fruit was a dessert. If we got cake - it was someone's birthday and cookies were for holidays only. We had a garden, got farm raised meats and milk straight from the cow..........

We were always active, even in the Midwest, cold and snowy winters..............

I never had a weight problem until the onset of health issues.................So, I have researched and the books I have been reading have led me back to eating the way I was raised to eat in the first place.

I used to think we had the mean parents for making us snack on home made beef jerky, veggies and such when all the other kids got twinkies and ice cream and such.........

As an adult, I now know better and thankful for my parents feeding us the way we ate.

Where do you live? For us, it is actually cheaper to eat locally than it is from the grocery store.............I was able to get 40 pounds of locally farm raised grass fed beef, pork, chicken and eggs from a local meat market for $66.00. i bought into a CSA for fruits and veggies, which are delivered to our house and sitting outside our front door every Wednesday.

It takes a lot of time and energy to cook fresh meats, clean and cut up veggies and fruit, etc - but it is worth it in the end for good health.

maccabeth

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

Gerkenstein

To be fair, I have not read all the posts on this 4th page of my original post, lol. :laugh: But I just want to be clear, it was not my intention to fuel a debate. I just wanted some advice and I think I now have enough information to make my decision. Thank you everyone for your input. I'm doing 40, 30, 30 and see how that goes for a while. Sorry this got so out of control. Since the debate is now only down to a few people, would you mind taking it elsewhere (perhaps in private messages or each other's profiles)? I appreciate your convictions to your lifestyles, but the information being debated here is not shared with the intention of helping me, the original poster.

Thank you! I really appreciate it!

jennylynn84

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

Oh, I generally mean the cheap stores, where you find the people that aren't really thinking about what they're putting in their body. Or, honestly, the stores that I can personally afford. While I am forced to make the occasional trip to Whole Foods to buy something I need for a recipe (literally could not find arborio rice for risotto anywhere else in town) I can't afford to do all my grocery shopping there.

I do also come from a very (pardon me) FAT region. I'm from South Louisiana. That might have something to do with the ingredient availability. We're not buying it, so they aren't stocking it? I dunno.

Natalie43

great debate - another reason why i love this site.

July24Lioness

This!! Fresh fruit has so many vitamins, minerals and fiber that the (natural, unprocessed) sugar it may contain is irrelevant!

it's not irrelevant for everyone. for me, sugar in fruit is a big deal. for diabetics, sugar in fruit is a big deal. for people who get migraines, sugar in fruit is a big deal.

Well, I'm talking about in general. Obviously if you have health issues that's a whole other story. I don't think the OP mentioned being diabetic.

You don't have to be diabetic, insulin resistant or have any other Endocrine or Metabolic issues in order for sugar to be a big deal.

Natural occurring fructose (fruit sugar) is a big deal for everyone, regardless..............

Research Leptin Resistance.

July24Lioness

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

i would have to say that her statement is very accurate. Have you ever been in Wal-Mart, Target or any grocery store and took a look in people's carts????

You and I are among the minority I am sorry to say..................People don't cook anymore..............All i see is canned raviolis, frozen pizzas and stouffers dinners, etc in people's carts. I have watched people walk right past the fresh meat aisle and go striaght for the lunch meats and hot dogs............yuck!! Chemical filled mess of food........... Chips fly off the shelves while fruits and veggies sit in the produce isle.

maccabeth

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

Oh, I generally mean the cheap stores, where you find the people that aren't really thinking about what they're putting in their body. Or, honestly, the stores that I can personally afford. While I am forced to make the occasional trip to Whole Foods to buy something I need for a recipe (literally could not find arborio rice for risotto anywhere else in town) I can't afford to do all my grocery shopping there.

I do also come from a very (pardon me) FAT region. I'm from South Louisiana. That might have something to do with the ingredient availability. We're not buying it, so they aren't stocking it? I dunno.

Oh, I definitely don't get to shop at WFs! I just go to my normal Publix or Super Target. I shopped at Walmart yesterday. Even there you can find organic and a variety of stuff! I'm a poor teacher! :laugh: However, I think bc WF is so popular, the regular stores are adding more good food to compete. At least here where I live!

jennylynn84

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

Oh, I generally mean the cheap stores, where you find the people that aren't really thinking about what they're putting in their body. Or, honestly, the stores that I can personally afford. While I am forced to make the occasional trip to Whole Foods to buy something I need for a recipe (literally could not find arborio rice for risotto anywhere else in town) I can't afford to do all my grocery shopping there.

I do also come from a very (pardon me) FAT region. I'm from South Louisiana. That might have something to do with the ingredient availability. We're not buying it, so they aren't stocking it? I dunno.

Oh, I definitely don't get to shop at WFs! I just go to my normal Publix or Super Target. I shopped at Walmart yesterday. Even there you can find organic and a variety of stuff! I'm a poor teacher! :laugh: However, I think bc WF is so popular, the regular stores are adding more good food to compete. At least here where I live!

Oh, snap. No, our Target is pathetic with its selection of actual food for cooking. I couldn't find rice vinegar there to cook fish. But they have about 40 different kinds of hamburger helper. Lately with some of the more original recipes I've been using I have to go to either WF or the vegetable stand to get some of my ingredients in addition to the regular store.

yentess

I've been reading these posts and I am very concerned about some of the advice being given. Ketosis is a form of starvation, where the body is malnourished and is basically eats itself for survival. It is very hard on the liver, I don't know why that would ever be used as a weight loss method.

Also just because you read something on the internet that an "expert" wrote doesn't mean you should totally believe it. You can read lots of article about urine therapy online, but really lets use a little common sense.

Also if you want to talk about how man was meant to eat, it was not a diet full of meat. Men were originally vegans and ate no animal products. Adam and Eve would have eaten a diet full of fresh fruit, veggies and nuts. It was not until the fall that man started to eat meat.

Also to the original poster, I don't think you should eliminate fruit from your diet. Fruit has many healthy nutrients in it that your body needs to be balanced. I would try to eliminate the non natural carbs such as bread and pasta. Also if you seem to be carb sensitive try to eat the lower fructose fruits like berries.

simona1972

You can read lots of article about urine therapy online, but really lets use a little common sense.

Im not getting involved in the debate but I just had to comment on this one thing....EEEWWW! Urine therapy?? Wow!

kayemme

And honestly, I think the problem with obesity in this country is the attitude we take towards food and exercise. Plenty of countries across the world incorporate more grain, more fat, etc. And yet we remain one of the most overweight. Why? I think it has to do with our processed food and our lifestyle.

1) No one eats locally. I realize this problem and I STILL don't eat locally because I can't afford it. If you ate locally grown veggies or beef from a local butcher instead of the Target's food, I'm sure you'd do better right away.

2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic.

We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

3) That actually brings me to my next point. Living this lifestyle, these days most kids and adults are completely sedentary. Kids are either watching TV while their parents work on the internet, on the internet themselves, etc. Making it to the gym or going for a walk is a luxury! WTF?! Really?

i'm so sorry this is your environment? there's a really great website, http://www.localharvest.org/ put in your zip code and it will alert you to where you might find some farmer's markets, side stands or CSAs.

I think what you are getting at is the disparity between energy conversion. We can start another thread about that if you like, but it's a really interesting topic. Calories are simply units of energy; it's all a cycle. If we expend energy in capturing our food (biking to the grocery; walking to the market, gardening, foraging, whatever!) then we have a lot less to worry about.

kayemme

Oh, snap. No, our Target is pathetic with its selection of actual food for cooking. I couldn't find rice vinegar there to cook fish. But they have about 40 different kinds of hamburger helper. Lately with some of the more original recipes I've been using I have to go to either WF or the vegetable stand to get some of my ingredients in addition to the regular store.

omgosh, so true! last time i was in a target (about a year ago) i was looking for a can of tomatoes. not one can of tomatoes existed. i asked a salesperson "could you direct me to your canned tomatoes?" he put me in the spaghetti sauce aisle. wow.

July24Lioness

I've been reading these posts and I am very concerned about some of the advice being given. Ketosis is a form of starvation, where the body is malnourished and is basically eats itself for survival. It is very hard on the liver, I don't know why that would ever be used as a weight loss method.

Also just because you read something on the internet that an "expert" wrote doesn't mean you should totally believe it. You can read lots of article about urine therapy online, but really lets use a little common sense.

Also if you want to talk about how man was meant to eat, it was not a diet full of meat. Men were originally vegans and ate no animal products. Adam and Eve would have eaten a diet full of fresh fruit, veggies and nuts. It was not until the fall that man started to eat meat.

Also to the original poster, I don't think you should eliminate fruit from your diet. Fruit has many healthy nutrients in it that your body needs to be balanced. I would try to eliminate the non natural carbs such as bread and pasta. Also if you seem to be carb sensitive try to eat the lower fructose fruits like berries.

I have never said and gave advice to only eat meat..............just because I do it and I know others that do it, doesn't mean that I am broadcasting for the world to do it. Talk about twisting my words. And where did you get that Ketosis is a form of starvation. It is not a form of starvation, it is a method for burning fat and switching the body over to a different form of burning fuel for energy............

If ketosis is a form of starvation, then we would have to say the same of a controlled calorie diet also.

And not once have I been gross.

I also never said to stop eating fruit, I said it should be eaten in limited amounts, such as having it for a dessert. There was plenty of meat eating in the bible, so I don't buy the whole humans were vegans prior to the fall of man.

There are no nutrients that are in fruit that you can't get from veggies that are in the end better for you for the mere fact that even natural sugar in the amounts that are in fruits today are not good for us, even healthy adults.

No one wants to acknowledge Leptin Resistance.

kayemme

Well actually, I would not expect any person to begin any type of weight loss program without first consulting a doctor.

not everybody has access to doctors.

leavinglasvegas

Also if you want to talk about how man was meant to eat, it was not a diet full of meat. Men were originally vegans and ate no animal products. Adam and Eve would have eaten a diet full of fresh fruit, veggies and nuts. It was not until the fall that man started to eat meat.

Wait? What?
Not to get involved in the debate or start a new one- Sorry, but just to be clear, our species evolved from scavengers. We ate random plants and meat left over from the nightly hunts of larger, fiercer animals. That is until we learned to hunt for our selves. In that case, yes, meat was rare and plants were mainly the staple. But all in all, we ate raw meat with our bare hands that had been left by our own predetors.

Everyone is entitled to their own religious views. But when it comes to the science of life, Adam and Eve are not a good way to make a point. As a Vegan, I would love to find proof that man isn't meant to eat meat. However, I do not believe that there is an anthropologist or scientist of any kind that would say that our diet can be based on one religious story.

TropicalKitty

... 2) No one cooks anymore. Everyone sticks to boxed dinners, microwave food, fast food restaurants.... You can't even buy some ingredients in the store. It's pathetic. We're so concerned with working and keeping up with the rat race that we don't bother to wonder how long we'll live if we keep going like that. We live in a "Hurry up and eat ANYTHING so you can get back to work" world. And it just isn't healthy.

I have to disagree with this part. I went vegetarian about 16 years ago. I had one cookbook and couldn't usually find the basic ingredients (even things like chick peas!) without going to a health food/natural food store. I have watched the access to
"exotic" ingredients grow and grow! Especially with places like Whole Foods being popular, all sorts of stuff- including so many organic ingredients- has now become common. I work a FT job + 1-2 PT jobs and still make time to cook (30 minute meal Rachel Ray style!) pretty much every night. I don't think cooking at home is that unusual or rare. I think I eat much more diverse foods than I ever did growing up (with parents who also cooked dinner every night for the family). Just my experience, though. It could be different where you live.

Oh, I generally mean the cheap stores, where you find the people that aren't really thinking about what they're putting in their body. Or, honestly, the stores that I can personally afford. While I am forced to make the occasional trip to Whole Foods to buy something I need for a recipe (literally could not find arborio rice for risotto anywhere else in town) I can't afford to do all my grocery shopping there.

I do also come from a very (pardon me) FAT region. I'm from South Louisiana. That might have something to do with the ingredient availability. We're not buying it, so they aren't stocking it? I dunno.

Oh, I definitely don't get to shop at WFs! I just go to my normal Publix or Super Target. I shopped at Walmart yesterday. Even there you can find organic and a variety of stuff! I'm a poor teacher! :laugh: However, I think bc WF is so popular, the regular stores are adding more good food to compete. At least here where I live!

Publix rocks for the produce! I come from the 2nd fattest state (tied with Alabama!) and I can totally see how the food access matters. I want to do the CSA or farmer's markets, but the scheduling is difficult or I have to drive 40miles one way to the good places. And mind you, I don't live in a hut. Not to mention, the pricing can be horrific. It's sad how backwards things are. The bad for you stuff should be the expensive stuff. The unprocessed veggie goodness should be the easy access things. However, there are some improvements over the past couple years as people have become more aware. Even WF is 40miles for me. Annoying! You have to really work to get what you want.

Oh and props to the person who listed the grains!

MacMadame

Speaking of not believing everything you read on the internet... humans have been omnivores since they first walked the earth. We have always eaten meat. Our original ancestors were hunter/gathers who ate a lot of fruit, nuts and vegetables which was supplemented with occasional gorging on fresh meat that they killed (hence the hunter part of hunter gather) and had to eat up before it went bad.

It's grains and dairy products that didn't come into our diets until we started farming.

ETA the groceries at our Target suck too. It's almost all processed crap with very little fresh meat and produce.