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We're not responsible for being obese?
Replies
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gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.14 -
If you want to lose weight or stay fit, there's no way around it but individual responsibility, so that's why it's an important thing to focus on. Can a particular set of circumstances make it harder or easier or an environment make it harder or easier? Sure, but you can only control what you can control, and that's individual responsibility. (And it's sufficient to avoid being overweight.)
If we were talking about "what can be done to reduce societal obesity," that would be a different conversation (although I don't think there are too many good answers, sadly).4 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
You realize you posted this on a site and process solely based upon individual responsibility?8 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?5 -
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
I disagree. There is a ton of advertising money being spent on questionable and flat out quack diet and fitness products. Pills and powders promising instant results, devices that promise this one exercise routine will do it all, etc. The major gym chains that make it nearly impossible to not enroll (oh you want to know our pricing, come on down and get a tour, this price is only good today) then once you sign up nearly impossible to leave (one year auto-renewing contracts, requiring a written letter, long spiel on phone about losing your great old price). Those places make money on the bet that you won't come in regularly and it actually is in their favor if you don't (unless you want to pay for barely qualified personal trainer sessions). The repeated message is losing weight is simple as long as you know the weird trick or gimmick. So people chase dumb idea after dumb idea and yo-yo like crazy.
Yes, I believe in personal accountability. But I also see the social structures that make it harder. Leaving aside advertising for a second, let's look at work places. If you work somewhere with lots of public transportation you likely are more active (studies show people who have lots of public transit options walk more). If your work actively supports fitness or has fitness as a job requirement you likely have on-site or discounted fitness centers and workshops, you might even have a cafeteria. Compare that to working someplace where the only lunch choices are three fast food restaurants or the microwave around the corner from the copier. If your work doesn't support flexible hours, shifting hours to make a morning, evening, or lunch time class is impossible. Two people can have vastly different experiences trying to be healthy with the exact same "willpower" because their obstacles are very different.
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gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
To the bolded, we don't. We teach children from a young age not to accept anything on face value. We teach them about advertising and social pressure. We teach them critical thinking. Then it's up to them.9 -
But, of course! Food manufacturers create obesity, bigpharma and doctors create disease and trauma, and cops are responsible for creating criminals. It's never the individual's fault for playing stupid games with their life. Society has just failed people, that's all.5
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gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
To the bolded, we don't. We teach children from a young age not to accept anything on face value. We teach them about advertising and social pressure. We teach them critical thinking. Then it's up to them.
Also, we stop spreading the consequences for poor choices to others.
If you get fat and get sick from it, you are not going to get a disability payment at taxpayer expense. It was totally preventable by the person who choose to keep eating and not exercise when their weight was going up.
As long as consequences are spread out, be it for individuals or corporations "too big to fail" there is no incentive to take responsibility.
It might take a generation, but eventually people would understand that if they do unwise things, they shoulder the burden of their choices.9 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
To the bolded, we don't. We teach children from a young age not to accept anything on face value. We teach them about advertising and social pressure. We teach them critical thinking. Then it's up to them.
I would agree with this. This isn't something can can be outsourced as this would be a conflict of interest of government or any established entity.
To this Generation Z is more aware of this and have a huge distrust of established media sources and questioning more.
"Too big, must fail" should be the status quo. Failure is good. Failure provides an opportunity for learning and growth. You cannot grow and evolve without the consequence of failure.7 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.3 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
To the bolded, we don't. We teach children from a young age not to accept anything on face value. We teach them about advertising and social pressure. We teach them critical thinking. Then it's up to them.
Okay, I could get behind this. Great. Let's arm the kids against the effects of advertising so they aren't so easily manipulated.
So, presumably this isn't happening. How do we make it happen? Do we improve the school system?0 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
To the bolded, we don't. We teach children from a young age not to accept anything on face value. We teach them about advertising and social pressure. We teach them critical thinking. Then it's up to them.
Okay, I could get behind this. Great. Let's arm the kids against the effects of advertising so they aren't so easily manipulated.
So, presumably this isn't happening. How do we make it happen? Do we improve the school system?
It won't happen until it becomes socially unacceptable to make decisions based on unvetted input. The cure is easy, the implementation is daunting.4 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.
I find it impossible to believe that corporations are spending almost 200 billion on something that isn't having an effect.
Outliers exist all over the place and anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Some corporations might spend recklessly but all food corporations spend massive amounts on ads. They do it for a reason.
Corporations tend to invest in things that have the strong potential of a solid return.5 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.
I find it impossible to believe that corporations are spending almost 200 billion on something that isn't having an effect.
Outliers exist all over the place and anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Some corporations might spend recklessly but all food corporations spend massive amounts on ads. They do it for a reason.
Corporations tend to invest in things that have the strong potential of a solid return.
Corporations make bad financial decisions all the time (I'm not saying this is or isn't, I'm saying assuming that spending a lot of money on it means it works is wrong). It's also just a subset of food manufacturers and sellers that advertise a lot and in particular that make the kinds of commercials that you seem to be assuming are so powerful. People get fat getting food from a much, much broader range of sellers than those who advertise in such a way, and most food is bought from places that have a wide range of food options. Coupons and flyers from grocery stores are advertisements too, and often the food featured is high in nutrients and low cal. I just got an email ad from a local organic farm, for that matter, and get emails from a local farmers market.
Also, when McD's advertises, is it convincing people to get fast food who wouldn't? Or is it getting them to choose McD's over BK or Wendy's? When Kellogg's advertises, is it reaching people who wouldn't otherwise eat cereal? Or at those who might choose other brands of cereal?
I think your assumption that people are so strongly affected by ads and especially that ads are the main reason for the problem is entirely unproven too. Your paragraph that I quoted suggested that people just could not control themselves when faced with advertising.5 -
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Also on the obesity is a problem because ads exist, ads are not new, they well predate obesity.
I think it's that food is easily available and cheap and (for many people) we have no cultural restrictions on when and what we eat anymore.3 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.
I find it impossible to believe that corporations are spending almost 200 billion on something that isn't having an effect.
Outliers exist all over the place and anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Some corporations might spend recklessly but all food corporations spend massive amounts on ads. They do it for a reason.
Corporations tend to invest in things that have the strong potential of a solid return.
Corporations make bad financial decisions all the time (I'm not saying this is or isn't, I'm saying assuming that spending a lot of money on it means it works is wrong). It's also just a subset of food manufacturers and sellers that advertise a lot and in particular that make the kinds of commercials that you seem to be assuming are so powerful. People get fat getting food from a much, much broader range of sellers than those who advertise in such a way, and most food is bought from places that have a wide range of food options. Coupons and flyers from grocery stores are advertisements too, and often the food featured is high in nutrients and low cal. I just got an email ad from a local organic farm, for that matter, and get emails from a local farmers market.
Also, when McD's advertises, is it convincing people to get fast food who wouldn't? Or is it getting them to choose McD's over BK or Wendy's? When Kellogg's advertises, is it reaching people who wouldn't otherwise eat cereal? Or at those who might choose other brands of cereal?
I think your assumption that people are so strongly affected by ads and especially that ads are the main reason for the problem is entirely unproven too. Your paragraph that I quoted suggested that people just could not control themselves when faced with advertising.
Corporations are struggling right now to figure out how to market to Millenials, because they don't watch commercial TV, don't read magazines, don't go into stores, they're not even really on FB. And I hear all the time how they are destroying all these industries because they don't buy a lot of stuff. But I haven't heard anything about them being less likely to be obese.
I think you could make an argument that individuals are far more swayed by the people around them than by advertising. We are most affected by advertising that supports our current beliefs anyway. That's why all those anti-smoking commercials gross out non-smokers and are ignored by every smoker I've ever known. Food commercials work because our instincts already make us want food. We become overweight because it's super easy to get and we aren't moving enough to work it off.
I am no bastion of willpower or intestinal fortitude, and I have seen ads for literally thousands of items I have never bought or consumed. I certainly want them sometimes, I'll even hover in front of them in the store. But then I make a decision to pass them up. I also make the decision to walk around the block before sitting down to watch TV. Anyone could make those decisions, some just don't.
I agree that figuring out why they don't could be very useful, I just don't agree the issue is marketing. Or I guess to drill down, if I was going to make a list of all the things that lead to a person making the choices that lead to them becoming obese, I don't think marketing is high on that list.6 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.
I find it impossible to believe that corporations are spending almost 200 billion on something that isn't having an effect.
Outliers exist all over the place and anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Some corporations might spend recklessly but all food corporations spend massive amounts on ads. They do it for a reason.
Corporations tend to invest in things that have the strong potential of a solid return.
Sure, advertising works. But my time in MBA-school suggests that there's more nuance in this overall scenario.
The very clear message in my marketing classes was that ideally you start by figuring out what the consumer really, really wants (not what they ought to want, not what they think they should want, not what they may even say in public that they want). You plan your products around those consumer "needs". You design efficient methods for producing them, distribution mechanisms to make them widely available, pricing mechanisms to put them in reach of a carefully-segmented target audience.
Then you figure out how to advertise those products in advantageous ways, appealing to what people think they ought to want, what they think socially-desirable happy/pretty people want, and that sort of thing: Socially positive messages, often (because they like thinking of themselves as being "good"), even when the "really really want" part isn't what's best for people.
This is the whole explanation behind things like "healthy" granola bars that are essentially cookies, crispy chicken "salads", and fast-food commercials full of thin/hip/pretty people who don't look like the average consumer in the drive-through.
Corporations are not our mommies and daddies. It's not their job to give us what's good for us, and figure out how to make us like it. Their job is to make money (for us, to the extent they're publically traded corporations, BTW). Their job is to give us what we want - what we vote with our dollars to say we want - in a convenient form, with as least-cost inputs as the public tastes will tolerate, at a highly desirable price point, at every possible purchase location.
In this equation, we are the adults in the room . . . or we're not. I've said it before: If what we really, really wanted was single-serve, ecologically-responsibly-packaged, shelf-stable, organic roasted brussels sprouts, they'd be competing to give us those everywhere, at the best possible price point.
But we want tasty foods with plenty of fat, carbs, salt, calories, and alongside those foods, maximum inactivity (drive-throughs, grocery delivery, Roomba . . . .).
Blame evolution, if anything.7 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Your brain saves you the energy of having to make a million decisions every day by automating... Will power is a muscle, and a relatively small one at that. It gets tired. Don't put yourself in situations where you'll probably make a bad choice and hope will power gets you out of it.
I agree. I feel that decision making muscle weaken as the day or week wears on—if I leave a jar of candy on my counter I have to see it and consciously make the decision to pass it by every time I walk by. I’m a SAHM, so that’s about a bajillion times a day. By the end of a long day, what are the odds it doesn’t get opened? If the candy is up on the cabinet of rarely used pots, I don’t have to wear out my willpower. I think many people live in the first situation, either out of their own choice or bc of their environment (they work next to a donut shop, the guy in the next office has a candy dish outside the door, their work caters lunch a few times a week, etc). You watch a lot of tv, you’re always getting the message to treat yourself, you deserve it! Eventually you say, you know I did have a rough day. I deserve a little treat!
Not to say you’re powerless, but you and those around you shaping your environment can make it easier or harder.
I agree completely.
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
Not to mention how the food is designed to make you want to eat the largest volume possible.
Sure, it's our responsibility to not get obese. But it's also true that corporations are spending billions of dollars to make that as difficult for you as humanly possible. And we don't have any organization spending billions to make it easier.
Ignoring this is to laser focus on individual responsibility is bizarre to me.
There is also tons of advertising money spent on fitness products, books, diets and gyms. Obviously, the object of spending money on advertising is to get people to buy your product, but I don't see any examples of corporations openly promoting obesity. It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
Just a quick search reveals that fitness and weight loss advertising is about 300 million a year in ads.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318776/fitness-diet-spa-ad-spend-medium/
Food was about 192 billion a year in advertising.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2223/food-advertising/
I think that's a huge difference.
What is bizarre to me is ignoring this, denying that it's a factor, especially considering we have a health crisis.
Also, saying they aren't promoting obesity seems to miss the point. Cigarette companies didn't promote lung cancer. That wasn't why their ads were regulated.
I didn't say ads were an excuse and I don't think corporations are evil. What I'm saying is more nuanced than that.
It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I am going to be personally affected by the obesity problem we have. We all are. Most of us already are.
I don't think getting on internet soap boxes about personal responsibility will help. I'm a stoic. If I want something, I try to make it happen. If there's a problem, I want to know what is causing it, what is contributing to it, what can be done to make it better.
So, if it's about personal responsibility, how do we make people be responsible?
2 of our last 4 presidents were significantly overweight. Say what you will about your dem/rep bad guy or whatever but I get the feeling that becoming president isn't something irresponsible people do. Don't you think it's possible there is something else going on as well?
Responsibility is traditionally and effectively taught using the following methodology:
Provide clear instructions
Avoid doing things for people that they can do for themselves
Ask instead of ordering
Use consequences and rewards
Provide ideal examples3 -
Not to mention advertising. You pass a jar of candy, sure. But, if you watch any television or listen to radio or go online, you get a bajillion messages that coke is happiness, burgers are joy, you WANT THAT CANDY YOU WANT IT EAT IT! Then you feel terrible and you are now conditioned to think the candy will help.
People probably watch fewer ads now, and should also be more sensitized to how they work. I never see TV ads. My eyes skip over internet ads. Main place I see ads is probably on public transportation (where they have a lot of ads for food delivery apps these days, more on this below).
In any case, figuring out how to deal with ads and other things -- like just seeing restaurants or food when shopping -- is part of personal responsibility. When I quit drinking I'd see wine shops (I was into wine) and pubs and wine lists and wine in the grocery store and ads and people drinking on TV and so on and it was a little triggering sometimes but I had to figure out how to deal with it. Same thing here.
I think the power of ads is tiny compared to just cultural things like food being cheap, easy to grab in prepared form (food delivery is so much more varied and easy than it used to be), a source of entertainment or venue for socializing, always around in many workplaces, so on. I think we eat more than we used to not because of ads, but because it's so easy. Just start eating only home cooked from whole foods except on rare occasion, and it gets much harder to do. That's what people used to do, and the cooking was a longer and harder process too.
Beyond that, I'll say it again, complaining about all this doesn't make you thinner. The only things that make you thinner are those things you have personal responsibility over, so focusing on personal responsibility seems sensible to me.It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and it is up to all of us as a society to try to understand why we have a health crisis on our hands that is adversely affecting mortality and quality of life. I believe both of these things can be true simultaneously.
I agree with this, but I don't believe it's because of advertising.
I got fat and yet was rarely interested in the kinds of food advertised -- I didn't eat fast food, didn't eat chips or candy, so on. We have a culture that makes it easy to overeat and human nature makes it easy to overeat -- when food is around we tend to want it (not everyone, but a lot of us). We find food appealing, often food that is higher in calories especially.
So it's hard to figure out what to do about it.
I find it impossible to believe that corporations are spending almost 200 billion on something that isn't having an effect.
Outliers exist all over the place and anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Some corporations might spend recklessly but all food corporations spend massive amounts on ads. They do it for a reason.
Corporations tend to invest in things that have the strong potential of a solid return.
Sure, advertising works. But my time in MBA-school suggests that there's more nuance in this overall scenario.
The very clear message in my marketing classes was that ideally you start by figuring out what the consumer really, really wants (not what they ought to want, not what they think they should want, not what they may even say in public that they want). You plan your products around those consumer "needs". You design efficient methods for producing them, distribution mechanisms to make them widely available, pricing mechanisms to put them in reach of a carefully-segmented target audience.
Then you figure out how to advertise those products in advantageous ways, appealing to what people think they ought to want, what they think socially-desirable happy/pretty people want, and that sort of thing: Socially positive messages, often (because they like thinking of themselves as being "good"), even when the "really really want" part isn't what's best for people.
This is the whole explanation behind things like "healthy" granola bars that are essentially cookies, crispy chicken "salads", and fast-food commercials full of thin/hip/pretty people who don't look like the average consumer in the drive-through.
Corporations are not our mommies and daddies. It's not their job to give us what's good for us, and figure out how to make us like it. Their job is to make money (for us, to the extent they're publically traded corporations, BTW). Their job is to give us what we want - what we vote with our dollars to say we want - in a convenient form, with as least-cost inputs as the public tastes will tolerate, at a highly desirable price point, at every possible purchase location.
In this equation, we are the adults in the room . . . or we're not. I've said it before: If what we really, really wanted was single-serve, ecologically-responsibly-packaged, shelf-stable, organic roasted brussels sprouts, they'd be competing to give us those everywhere, at the best possible price point.
But we want tasty foods with plenty of fat, carbs, salt, calories, and alongside those foods, maximum inactivity (drive-throughs, grocery delivery, Roomba . . . .).
Blame evolution, if anything.
Marketing is indeed getting at the deepest desires of the consumer and managing to leverage those desires to promote brands or behavior, even if said behavior/product seems at odds with the desire.
Example, from “Wired Child” by Richard Freed: Moms’ (most corporations market to moms as the household decision maker) deepest desire is to have connectedness, attachment, meaningful moments with their children. Many are concerned that technology gets in the way. How to market tech to these moms? Give them apps featuring branded products that supposedly help foster togetherness, such as Kraft’s Big Fork/Little Fork that supposedly helps moms teach their kids about healthy eating, featuring videos of a Kraft mom teaching kids how to crack an egg and make recipes with Oreos and other Kraft foods. Tap into that desire, make people think they’re obtaining it, but sneak your product in there (the app, the food brand, the gadget itself).
Same reason why the ad dollars for exercise equipment and health stuff largely goes to silly gadgets and get thin quick books/products—tap the desire for health and manipulate it so the attempt fails and the consumer is back for more.
While I don’t watch TV at all (maybe watch two Netflix shows a month), I do see advertising—which Instagram celeb is partnering with Kellogg’s or whomever, which blogger/magazine account is doing sponsored posts or linking to their favorite supplements or bakeware, etc. Many times those aren’t quite as obvious to the casual scroller as advertising—and since they already feel like they know/have a “relationship” with their Insta celeb or fav blogger via comments and the “community” these folks build around their own personal brands, when you’re seeing these people gush about their new favorite product and how it totally works, it can get by your defenses more easily than a TV ad.
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janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The article is annoying, but I think it's important to distinguish between two separate things:
(1) Are you ultimately responsible for your choices and are there things you should and can do to help yourself make better choices? Do you have a significant degree of choice in what you do, including (of course) what you eat? Yes, and that is important for people to realize when it comes to weight loss and maintenance.
(2) Are there also societal (cultural and other) influences on how people as a group act, on average that may affect what we do? Of course this is also true. We aren't just fatter now because we got lazy and weak compared to people in the past. Put us in the same situations as them, and them as us, and you'd probably get the exact same results as you have now (and did then) -- it's not that people are different, but that circumstances do affect behavior. (This can be such things as having no option but to move more, less food availability (which is not inherently good, obviously), and different cultural norms and taught behaviors.) To compare something like addiction (which the CNN piece did, I'm not convinced that's a great comparison here), clearly people ARE responsible for their own behaviors, but that doesn't change the fact that cultural norms and attitudes and availability and family background WILL make a statistical difference in behavior on average. We can acknowledge this and think about whether there is anything that can be done to tilt outcomes in a better direction without absolving people of responsibility. In fact, understanding what the influences are can be very helpful.
I'm of the opinion that trying to identify and understand the influences on my behavior can help me exercise more responsibility.
Trying to make all the "right decisions" without accounting for and understanding your environment is like trying to swim upstream.
A recent example comes to mind: my husband and I watched a news show last year that discussed the trend of over-prescription of strong, potentially addictive painkillers in emergency room settings for patients with things like broken bones who probably didn't need that level of pain management and how it was potentially driving new addictions. A few months later, my husband broke his wrist in a fall. In the emergency room, they gave him a prescription for the exact type of painkiller mentioned in the story. Based on the news story combined with the level of pain that he was feeling, he decided not to fill the prescription. Knowing the overall trend allowed him to make a better decision. I don't doubt his personal responsibility and will power for a minute, but knowing there are all sorts of people struggling with addiction problems with the US I'm glad we were aware and could avoid unnecessarily bringing a highly addictive substance into our lives (we both come from families with histories of addiction).
This has been a couple years ago, but when I last visited the ER, it was like they wouldn't let you leave without your souvenir prescription for Oxy. I went more than once trying to get help for a recurring condition and each time, boom, thirty day prescription. I didn't want or need pain meds, I needed care. Out of curiosity I looked up the street value of all the drugs they wanted to force on me and it was something like four thousand dollars. After I finally got a correct diagnosis and surgery they sent me home with yet another scrip for Oxy. I took ONE Percocet in the hospital to sleep the night after surgery and was fine after that. But I had like three months' worth of pills waiting for me to fill them.0 -
I haven't read each & every comment but scanned enough to see the common thread is marketing, advertising, big business etc etc...if I missed the point about self-medication, the whole "food is love" that some of us have been taught from infancy...there is an emotional & psychological component of overeating that seems to have been missed on this thread...if it has been addressed I apologize...oooops!! If not, I will address it because it is real...it is part...likely a large part of why 95% of people who lose weight WILL gain it back. It isn't only lazy people or unmotivated people or people lacking self control who become obese...as the comment above re: 2 of the last 4 presidents were overweight/obese.
YES it IS a personal responsibility to monitor what we put in our mouths, but what are the contributing factors to the choices we make about what we put in our mouth...?? It is not an exaggeration that the in-your-face food industry HAS contributed to our attitude about eating!! AND our desire to eat etc etc. To say anything to the contrary is naive.
We have access to more information about how to get healthy & stay healthy, an overabundance of info about nutrition, weight loss, fitness than EVER in history, YET there is an obesity EPIDEMIC!!!!! That says something more to me than Just say NO!!! It isn't so much what we're eating as what is eating us...isn't there a book with that title?? Anyway, assigning blame is NOT going to solve the problem. Getting to the core of WHY?? will. And that is our individual responsibility to ourselves.
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The government gave you a food triangle. No where in there does it say eat Doritos and ice cream. They say eat 2000 calories per day.
As far as I’m concerned they did they’re job. People just looking for someone else to blame6 -
Like anything else, the reality is not as simple as we would like it to be. There are many factors leading to the obesity crisis in the USA.
I agree with some of the conclusions of that investigation. Corporations absolutely have made trillions by addicting us to high-profit foods, particularly sugar laden foods. We are now learning that sugar is as addictive as a drug like cocaine for example. So why wouldn't a company want to addict us to such foods? It is a gold mine for them. The deliberately manipulated food landscape in the USA is definitely one of the reasons for the obesity crisis.
It's not so simple though. There are other factors at work.
We have become a sedentary society. Since the advent of TV, and the general decline of farming and manufacturing, we sit around a LOT. Most jobs (like mine) require the worker to sit at a desk looking at a monitor for 8-10 hours. You don't burn many calories doing that, and over time your metabolic rate will decline. Then we spend a lot of our leisure time mesmerized by electronic devices.
We have become a stressed, overworked society. Today the average person/family has to work many more hours per week at largely sedentary jobs to achieve the same standard of living we had in the 50's or 60's for example. The average commute time to those jobs is far longer than it used to be - so we spend a lot more time sitting in a tin box on a highway.
As a society, our critical thinking skills and knowledge of science and health has declined. Critical thinking skills are a prerequisite to understanding the relationships between caloric intake and weight gain, for example. Life skills and critical thinking skills have no priority in our teaching curricula. The people using this site are NOT the norm.
It's when you combine all of these factors (and others) that you end up with a sick obese society.11 -
It might seem bizarre to you to focus on individual responsibility, but in my opinion that absolutely should be the focus. It is up to each individual to hold themselves accountable for what they put into their body and not use advertising or "evil" corporations as an excuse.
^^^100%3
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