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Is a calorie equal to a calorie?
Replies
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Edamame, green peas, artichoke, spinach, broccoli, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, almonds, nutritional yeast, almonds... I could go on.
People in the US are so hyped about protein. It’s pretty easy to get enough protein as a vegan or vegetarian.11 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.1 -
Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.1 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.
Yeah I usually don’t eat them. I’ll only eat them if someone mentions the fact that I don’t eat them enough and I’m like “oh, right...I should eat some. Because fats are healthy.”
I’m still getting over a fear of fat, so it takes some gentle nudging for me to eat nuts and seeds.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.4 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...28 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.
Yeah I usually don’t eat them. I’ll only eat them if someone mentions the fact that I don’t eat them enough and I’m like “oh, right...I should eat some. Because fats are healthy.”
I’m still getting over a fear of fat, so it takes some gentle nudging for me to eat nuts and seeds.
Fat is very important for health... healthy skin, hair and hormone function.... Do not fear it.9 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »I’m just curious if anybody has any links to a scientific article or journal talking about calories in terms of if 100 calories of apples is equal to 100 calories of oreos.
I was debating this in my head while reading some other discussions. Depending on what I eat, how hungry I am, and how active I am, I eat between 1700-3000 calories. On average it’s around 2000. My calories only come from whole fruits and vegetables. I’m just thinking...I don’t think a calorie really equals a calorie because the body uses the food differently. White bread vs Sweet Potato, PB2 vs Almond Butter, Cane sugar vs Dates, Faux Chicken vs spinach, etc etc
There are loads of science based articles that go into substrate utilization at rest vs exercises of different intensities, how quickly or changes in how it is metabolized, errors or changes in composition created by the calorie estimates, charts of gross vs net metabolized energy, etc.
Apples vs Oreos wouldn't be much different, since Oreos are mostly carbs.
For general weight control and loss, the below seems to be effective and make sense for most people.
In context, calories are simply a unit of measurement and thus are the same. In reality how they are used, absorbed, how much they fill you up (or don't), long term vs short term energy, and such things vary because all calories we deal with as humans are attached to a food. All the small variables and errors in estimations can change a persons goal intake, TDEE, or other factors.
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...
You’d be surprised at how many “normal” eaters are nutrient deficient. I’d say I’m pretty good compared to most Americans.17 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...
You’d be surprised at how many “normal” eaters are nutrient deficient. I’d say I’m pretty good compared to most Americans.
Yes, but for vegans who tend to avoid legumes and nuts there are some specific deficiencies that may be of concern that wouldn't be a concern for many "normal" eaters. When these deficiencies manifest themselves they can help contribute to the stereotype of the "sickly vegan" which is why I think even vegans who aren't concerned about their own personal health should give it some thought so that their overall advocacy for animals isn't impacted.15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...
You’d be surprised at how many “normal” eaters are nutrient deficient. I’d say I’m pretty good compared to most Americans.
Yes, but for vegans who tend to avoid legumes and nuts there are some specific deficiencies that may be of concern that wouldn't be a concern for many "normal" eaters. When these deficiencies manifest themselves they can help contribute to the stereotype of the "sickly vegan" which is why I think even vegans who aren't concerned about their own personal health should give it some thought so that their overall advocacy for animals isn't impacted.
Thank you. I agree. I’ll probably still keep eating the way I do, but I’m glad you said this.0 -
Can't lose fat optimally without consuming fat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Can't lose fat optimally without consuming fat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Really? I remember something my nutritionist said that I really liked. She said that carbs are like a fire, but to keep the fire burning you have to add sticks (or was it fuel...) which would be the fat. That was really insightful and helped me a ton!1 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
It actually sounds a bit orthorexic -- you say you tend not to eat nuts and seeds because you are recovering from a fear of fat, don't eat the other main sources of vegan fats (avocado, coconut, and of course olives or olive oil or other oils), you focus on eating only fruit and veg and don't think of beans and lentils as a veg (and say they make you feel bad), and the diet you describe seems limited, nutrient deficient, and pretty low in calories.
I think vegan diets can be really healthy, and would say that WFPB diets are also often really healthy, but you seem to have issues with food that are a little worrisome that in your mind seem to be tied up with the idea of avoiding "bad" foods.
Maybe it is just extreme pickiness, but I'm concerned it could be something more.13 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
It actually sounds a bit orthorexic -- you say you tend not to eat nuts and seeds because you are recovering from a fear of fat, don't eat the other main sources of vegan fats (avocado, coconut, and of course olives or olive oil or other oils), you focus on eating only fruit and veg and don't think of beans and lentils as a veg (and say they make you feel bad), and the diet you describe seems limited, nutrient deficient, and pretty low in calories.
I think vegan diets can be really healthy, and would say that WFPB diets are also often really healthy, but you seem to have issues with food that are a little worrisome that in your mind seem to be tied up with the idea of avoiding "bad" foods.
Maybe it is just extreme pickiness, but I'm concerned it could be something more.
It’s a bit a both. Extreme pickiness and also a fear of food and gaining weight.1 -
you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
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you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
That man had absolutely no idea how much he was eating before, during, or after his crappy "experiment". He even said counting calories was hard, and was guesstimating his portion sizes (incredibly badly, I might add).22 -
you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
*facepalm*
As is stated over, and over, and over - a calorie is a unit of measurement. No one is saying what makes up that calorie is the same. An ounce is an ounce. no one is saying an ounce of chocolate and an ounce of broccoli is the same.10 -
you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
That Sugar Film isn't a documentary. It's a hack propaganda flick filled with pseudoscience and woo. Not even worth wasting the time to watch. Clue number one is that he uses Taubes as one of his "sources" and Taubes has been repeatedly exposed by evidence-based researchers as a tinfoil hat snake oil salesman.17 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
That man had absolutely no idea how much he was eating before, during, or after his crappy "experiment". He even said counting calories was hard, and was guesstimating his portion sizes (incredibly badly, I might add).
And a great deal of what he ate had nothing to do with what anyone seriously considers a "healthy diet." I read a good nutritionist take-down of that movie. I should try to find it again.
(Calorie point was the bigger one, but this part annoyed me too.)7 -
you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
Proves? Highly unlikely...9 -
It's the same concept as 5 lbs of feathers vs 5 lbs of rocks...they are the same weight, but one will fill more space than the other.
Same with calories...100 calories of carrots vs 100 calories of peanut butter. You will have more of one than the other as far as volume goes, but they are the same in terms of calories. A calorie equals a calorie no matter what food it's in.6 -
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you may be interested in watching this documentary (That Sugar Film" of a man who changed his diet to consume the SAME number of calories eating high fat/low carb and switching to what the general population perceives as a standard 'healthy' diet of the same number of calories. this 'standard' included sugars/carbohydrates. its very interesting and is just one source i have seen/read that proves a calories is NOT a calorie. you can find this on netflix. prolly other places as well on the web. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/
I wonder why this important research was published in Netflix and not, you know, a peer reviewed journal?27 -
Forgive me for not reading this thread all that carefully, but I really don't understand why people cannot separate energy from nutrition.
I've tried so many different analogies, let me try another one.
Let's try fabric. I don't sew, but know a little bit about it. Different fabrics work better for different things. You wouldn't upholster a chair with the same fabric you'd use to sew a blouse. You'd look for certain qualities for each of those fabrics to have, because they'd each perform differently when put to use.
And yet, when you buy the fabric, to quantify the amount, you measure it using the same implement.
The nutrition provided by food is like the qualities that fabric brings to its intended use like drape and durability. Calories are like the yardstick that the person at the sales counter uses to measure how much fabric you're buying.
Entirely different things.39 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Forgive me for not reading this thread all that carefully, but I really don't understand why people cannot separate energy from nutrition.
I've tried so many different analogies, let me try another one.
Let's try fabric. I don't sew, but know a little bit about it. Different fabrics work better for different things. You wouldn't upholster a chair with the same fabric you'd use to sew a blouse. You'd look for certain qualities for each of those fabrics to have, because they'd each perform differently when put to use.
And yet, when you buy the fabric, to quantify the amount, you measure it using the same implement.
The nutrition provided by food is like the qualities that fabric brings to its intended use like drape and durability. Calories are like the yardstick that the person at the sales counter uses to measure how much fabric you're buying.
Entirely different things.
Awesome!
edited to fix quote0 -
3
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Thanks ladies. And yet, someone still woo'ed it
Never change MFP, never change. 9 -
And you got wooed for mentioning woo. h
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Thanks ladies. And yet, someone still woo'ed it Never change MFP, never change.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Forgive me for not reading this thread all that carefully, but I really don't understand why people cannot separate energy from nutrition.
I've tried so many different analogies, let me try another one.
Let's try fabric. I don't sew, but know a little bit about it. Different fabrics work better for different things. You wouldn't upholster a chair with the same fabric you'd use to sew a blouse. You'd look for certain qualities for each of those fabrics to have, because they'd each perform differently when put to use.
And yet, when you buy the fabric, to quantify the amount, you measure it using the same implement.
The nutrition provided by food is like the qualities that fabric brings to its intended use like drape and durability. Calories are like the yardstick that the person at the sales counter uses to measure how much fabric you're buying.
Entirely different things.
And on that point, you will make the decision to cut and/or store the fabric you have left over based solely on the length of fabric that you have.
If you only use 5 yards of fabric but you bought 6 yards, you will have a yard left over to store somewhere. The extra yard won't just be absorbed into the other 5 just because it's denim.
Similarly, weight loss is determined by the amount of energy you consume vs expend. If you burn 2,000 calories but consumed 2,500, you will have 500 extra calories (yards of fabric) leftover that have to be stored. The extra 500 calories won't just vanish because they came from protein.
So yes, you may need to eat protein for muscle development, fat for brain health, joint health, vitamin absorption and a host of other things and carbs for energy. You may eat carrots for the vitamin A and whole grain cereal for the fiber just like you'd use cotton to make a shirt and corduroy to make pants (except don't do that).
But when it comes to weight management, you will either gain or lose weight based solely on the amount of energy brought in vs the amount of energy expended.
Nutritious =/= weight loss. Nutritious means that you get all the nutrients you need. Weight loss means you used more energy than you consumed.15
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