Losing weight and gaining Muscle

135

Replies

  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,589 Member


    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    If he really weighs 250 pounds like he indicated then the nutrient partitioning for building mass isn't going to be any better than his gaining while cutting. You seem to place significant emphasis on what foods someone is eating as having a huge impact on their gains. Improving protein intake and ensuring you are getting adequate fat and vitamins is important, but beyond that you don't get extra credit for eating a 10th serving of vegetables rather than a cupcake if calories are equal. That cupcake from time to time could mean actual adherence to diet to many.

    Gotta crawl before you walk, all I'm saying man. Don't overwhelm the kid with too much at once, starting off with a good training program, having him understand what good foods are rather than not so good ones, then have him get on the routine consistently for 6-8-10 weeks... then teach him how to count calories...

    Again with with good food versus bad food thing. If someone has the calories for pizza or cake and it's not going to cause them to derail there is zero reason to skip something. This is why we say to count calories. In the end that's what matters. You can still gain weight eating your so called good foods. You can lose weight on a diet of nothing but Twinkies. Finding that balance of nutrient dense foods and still fitting in things people enjoy that you think are "bad" is the beauty of counting calories and in the end it's a sustainable method for most.

    Wouldn't you rather 2,000 calories of good nutritional food rather than 2,000 calories of McDonald's? I mean come on man, you're losing credibility here, I'd hope most people would go the healthier route

    Did I say to eat 2000 calories of McDonalds or did I say find a balance of nutrient dense foods and still fit in things you enjoy?

    Also, do you mean man as in dude or man as in male?

    I was :laugh: at that. @usmcmp is a woman, @GainsLevelIncreased.

    Glad I'm not the only one that gets called a guy around here.

    We should both quit deadlifting just shy of 400 pounds or we might grow male parts.
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    If he really weighs 250 pounds like he indicated then the nutrient partitioning for building mass isn't going to be any better than his gaining while cutting. You seem to place significant emphasis on what foods someone is eating as having a huge impact on their gains. Improving protein intake and ensuring you are getting adequate fat and vitamins is important, but beyond that you don't get extra credit for eating a 10th serving of vegetables rather than a cupcake if calories are equal. That cupcake from time to time could mean actual adherence to diet to many.

    Gotta crawl before you walk, all I'm saying man. Don't overwhelm the kid with too much at once, starting off with a good training program, having him understand what good foods are rather than not so good ones, then have him get on the routine consistently for 6-8-10 weeks... then teach him how to count calories...

    Again with with good food versus bad food thing. If someone has the calories for pizza or cake and it's not going to cause them to derail there is zero reason to skip something. This is why we say to count calories. In the end that's what matters. You can still gain weight eating your so called good foods. You can lose weight on a diet of nothing but Twinkies. Finding that balance of nutrient dense foods and still fitting in things people enjoy that you think are "bad" is the beauty of counting calories and in the end it's a sustainable method for most.

    Wouldn't you rather 2,000 calories of good nutritional food rather than 2,000 calories of McDonald's? I mean come on man, you're losing credibility here, I'd hope most people would go the healthier route

    Did I say to eat 2000 calories of McDonalds or did I say find a balance of nutrient dense foods and still fit in things you enjoy?

    Also, do you mean man as in dude or man as in male?

    I was :laugh: at that. @usmcmp is a woman, @GainsLevelIncreased.

    Glad I'm not the only one that gets called a guy around here.

    We should both quit deadlifting just shy of 400 pounds or we might grow male parts.

    Meh. I'm willing to risk it!

    Didja 'mire my 405 block pull yesterday, BTW?!? :p

    You two are seriously amazing!
  • quiksylver296
    quiksylver296 Posts: 28,443 Member

    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    If he really weighs 250 pounds like he indicated then the nutrient partitioning for building mass isn't going to be any better than his gaining while cutting. You seem to place significant emphasis on what foods someone is eating as having a huge impact on their gains. Improving protein intake and ensuring you are getting adequate fat and vitamins is important, but beyond that you don't get extra credit for eating a 10th serving of vegetables rather than a cupcake if calories are equal. That cupcake from time to time could mean actual adherence to diet to many.

    Gotta crawl before you walk, all I'm saying man. Don't overwhelm the kid with too much at once, starting off with a good training program, having him understand what good foods are rather than not so good ones, then have him get on the routine consistently for 6-8-10 weeks... then teach him how to count calories...

    Again with with good food versus bad food thing. If someone has the calories for pizza or cake and it's not going to cause them to derail there is zero reason to skip something. This is why we say to count calories. In the end that's what matters. You can still gain weight eating your so called good foods. You can lose weight on a diet of nothing but Twinkies. Finding that balance of nutrient dense foods and still fitting in things people enjoy that you think are "bad" is the beauty of counting calories and in the end it's a sustainable method for most.

    Wouldn't you rather 2,000 calories of good nutritional food rather than 2,000 calories of McDonald's? I mean come on man, you're losing credibility here, I'd hope most people would go the healthier route

    Did I say to eat 2000 calories of McDonalds or did I say find a balance of nutrient dense foods and still fit in things you enjoy?

    Also, do you mean man as in dude or man as in male?

    I was :laugh: at that. @usmcmp is a woman, @GainsLevelIncreased.

    Glad I'm not the only one that gets called a guy around here.

    We should both quit deadlifting just shy of 400 pounds or we might grow male parts.
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    If he really weighs 250 pounds like he indicated then the nutrient partitioning for building mass isn't going to be any better than his gaining while cutting. You seem to place significant emphasis on what foods someone is eating as having a huge impact on their gains. Improving protein intake and ensuring you are getting adequate fat and vitamins is important, but beyond that you don't get extra credit for eating a 10th serving of vegetables rather than a cupcake if calories are equal. That cupcake from time to time could mean actual adherence to diet to many.

    Gotta crawl before you walk, all I'm saying man. Don't overwhelm the kid with too much at once, starting off with a good training program, having him understand what good foods are rather than not so good ones, then have him get on the routine consistently for 6-8-10 weeks... then teach him how to count calories...

    Again with with good food versus bad food thing. If someone has the calories for pizza or cake and it's not going to cause them to derail there is zero reason to skip something. This is why we say to count calories. In the end that's what matters. You can still gain weight eating your so called good foods. You can lose weight on a diet of nothing but Twinkies. Finding that balance of nutrient dense foods and still fitting in things people enjoy that you think are "bad" is the beauty of counting calories and in the end it's a sustainable method for most.

    Wouldn't you rather 2,000 calories of good nutritional food rather than 2,000 calories of McDonald's? I mean come on man, you're losing credibility here, I'd hope most people would go the healthier route

    Did I say to eat 2000 calories of McDonalds or did I say find a balance of nutrient dense foods and still fit in things you enjoy?

    Also, do you mean man as in dude or man as in male?

    I was :laugh: at that. @usmcmp is a woman, @GainsLevelIncreased.

    Glad I'm not the only one that gets called a guy around here.

    We should both quit deadlifting just shy of 400 pounds or we might grow male parts.

    Meh. I'm willing to risk it!

    Didja 'mire my 405 block pull yesterday, BTW?!? :p

    You two are seriously amazing!

    Awww, thanks! :blushing:

  • RoxieDawn wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.

    What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.

    Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?

    For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.

    What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.

    Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?

    For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.

    Well you gain weight eating too many calories of any food over your TDEE. So this is a mute point.

    And a person does have muscle mass at their current weight, and he can build additional muscle currently while in a calorie deficit up to a point. So he does not need to do anything to delay weight loss.

    There are too many variables. What if by chance OP is a shorter person who is in obese category at his height and should start cutting weight for his health? Anyway, this does not help OP in any way and the advice given still stands.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.

    What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.

    Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?

    For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.

    The OP is 250 pounds and wants to lose 50 pounds. He's going to gain lean mass while losing weight. If he wants to go in blindly and hope to be in a deficit that's his call, but tracking calories from the start is going to help ensure he's eating at a deficit.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.

    What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.

    Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?

    For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.

    Well you gain weight eating too many calories of any food over your TDEE. So this is a mute point.

    And a person does have muscle mass at their current weight, and he can build additional muscle currently while in a calorie deficit up to a point. So he does not need to do anything to delay weight loss.

    There are too many variables. What if by chance OP is a shorter person who is in obese category at his height and should start cutting weight for his health? Anyway, this does not help OP in any way and the advice given still stands.

    Well in that case being health reasons, that's completely different. His goal is to lose weight and gain muscle. I can guarantee if he just went in on a deficit and counting calories, he'd be much weaker.. yeah he may gain some muscle because he's a newbie, but if he weren't in a deficit, he'd be stronger, he'd lift more weight which tears them muscle fibers more than light weight. Ate a *kitten* tone of healthy nutritional foods to repair them baby muscles... I just think a lean bulk is ideal for beginners, rather then jumping right into counting calories and being in a deficit with little muscle mass as it is

    A lean bulk for someone who said he wants to lose 50 pounds to reach a goal weight of 200 pounds?
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.

    I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.

    And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.

    Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate

    how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.

    What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.

    Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?

    For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.

    You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?

    I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.

    A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.

    You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?