Losing weight and gaining Muscle
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GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?7 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.13 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
That could quite possibly be the worst advice yet.7 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
Mr. demonizing food and completely ignoring what has been said doesn't help. Eat your clean food and continue to do your thing. Pretty simple.7 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
That could quite possibly be the worst advice yet.
I've helped many lose weight and gain muscle this way, not overly obese per say.. but a good 260 lbs 5'8 30 year old man, who very rarely weight trained. So y'all do it your way, I'm a do it mine. That's all, good day folks10 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
That could quite possibly be the worst advice yet.
I've helped many lose weight and gain muscle this way, not overly obese per say.. but a good 260 lbs 5'8 30 year old man, who very rarely weight trained. So y'all do it your way, I'm a do it mine. That's all, good day folks
You promise?4 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.7 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
That could quite possibly be the worst advice yet.
I've helped many lose weight and gain muscle this way, not overly obese per say.. but a good 260 lbs 5'8 30 year old man, who very rarely weight trained. So y'all do it your way, I'm a do it mine. That's all, good day folks
You promise?
no. lol2 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.5 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
*Kitten*. Got my hopes up.3 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
You are recommending weight gain for an overweight person?
Miss, what I'm saying is eat cleaner, don't eat garbage. And don't worry about counting calories if your goal is to lose weight and gain muscle as a beginner when you barely have muscle to begin with.
That could quite possibly be the worst advice yet.
I've helped many lose weight and gain muscle this way, not overly obese per say.. but a good 260 lbs 5'8 30 year old man, who very rarely weight trained. So y'all do it your way, I'm a do it mine. That's all, good day folks
You promise?
Good form on that Pull there3 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.4 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
Well you gain weight eating too many calories of any food over your TDEE. So this is a mute point.
And a person does have muscle mass at their current weight, and he can build additional muscle currently while in a calorie deficit up to a point. So he does not need to do anything to delay weight loss.
There are too many variables. What if by chance OP is a shorter person who is in obese category at his height and should start cutting weight for his health? Anyway, this does not help OP in any way and the advice given still stands.
Well in that case being health reasons, that's completely different. His goal is to lose weight and gain muscle. I can guarantee if he just went in on a deficit and counting calories, he'd be much weaker.. yeah he may gain some muscle because he's a newbie, but if he weren't in a deficit, he'd be stronger, he'd lift more weight which tears them muscle fibers more than light weight. Ate a *kitten* tone of healthy nutritional foods to repair them baby muscles... I just think a lean bulk is ideal for beginners, rather then jumping right into counting calories and being in a deficit with little muscle mass as it is
Wait, you want a 250 lb guy who wants to lose 50 lbs to do a lean bulk??? And why would he end up weaker eating at a modest deficit? And is "baby muscles" a technical term?5 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!2 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!
But was it clean? Apparently clean = magic in that nutrition class I missed due to illness.8 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!
But was it clean? Apparently clean = magic in that nutrition class I missed due to illness.
Well, I didn't eat it off the ground. So, yeah. Totally clean.9 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!
But was it clean? Apparently clean = magic in that nutrition class I missed due to illness.
I didn't eat off the floor.4 -
GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
Well you gain weight eating too many calories of any food over your TDEE. So this is a mute point.
And a person does have muscle mass at their current weight, and he can build additional muscle currently while in a calorie deficit up to a point. So he does not need to do anything to delay weight loss.
There are too many variables. What if by chance OP is a shorter person who is in obese category at his height and should start cutting weight for his health? Anyway, this does not help OP in any way and the advice given still stands.
Well in that case being health reasons, that's completely different. His goal is to lose weight and gain muscle. I can guarantee if he just went in on a deficit and counting calories, he'd be much weaker.. yeah he may gain some muscle because he's a newbie, but if he weren't in a deficit, he'd be stronger, he'd lift more weight which tears them muscle fibers more than light weight. Ate a *kitten* tone of healthy nutritional foods to repair them baby muscles... I just think a lean bulk is ideal for beginners, rather then jumping right into counting calories and being in a deficit with little muscle mass as it is
Wait, you want a 250 lb guy who wants to lose 50 lbs to do a lean bulk??? And why would he end up weaker eating at a modest deficit? And is "baby muscles" a technical term?
I want this 250lb guy to eat more nutritional food and cut the garbage food out, and not worry about counting calories as a beginner. I want him to worry about making better choices in the kitchen and putting in the work at the gym, so when he does decide to cut the weight, he doesn't look like a noodle with lose skin.7 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!
But was it clean? Apparently clean = magic in that nutrition class I missed due to illness.
I had spaghetti night before last, this must be spaghetti week. I know it was clean because my wife used water to boil the pasta, so that's like rinsing it, right? And she rinsed the mushrooms before she sliced them to put them into the sauce, too. Oh so clean.5 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »GainsLevelIncreased wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »Counting calories is useful for newbies. There was a recent thread about “foods that surprised you”, meaning calorie count was very high...usual things like peanut butter. Counting brings those things to light. Someone may not understand how real portions look. Calorie counting helps with that. Discounting it because it’s tedious is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. “Tedious” is relative.
I'm more about working them in, showing them the gym and making better choices in the kitchen first. Then once they get into a routine of making better choices, then have them learn how to count calories... that's just me I guess, I'm not saying your wrong, I'd just go about it a little differently.
And he comes back in 2 months wondering why he hasn't lost weight because he cut out 500 calories worth of pizza per week, but replace it with 1,000 calories worth of granola and nuts because they're "healthy". We don't even know what his choices are, maybe he's on a completely "clean" diet and is gaining weight. In the end it really comes down to calories and personally I'm going to keep eating "garbage" foods all the way up to this bodybuilding competition just like I did last time.
Well I hope he has a mentor to show him exercises in the gym, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he doesn't lose any weight, but cuts out *kitten* foods. He'll actually build some muscle, and then do a caloric deficit by 200-300 calories then when the weight comes off, he'll actually have baby muscles. And good luck with that competition mate
how do you know he would be in a deficit if he cut out "junk", he may eat more non-junk that has even more caloreis to replace the junk.
What I said was it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if he went 6-8 weeks and didn't lose any weight on the scale but cut out garbage foods. Which would make him healthier... 6-8 of training as a newbie, he would pack on some muscle, even if he does gain a little more fat by eating "too much" healthier foods.. he'd for one be healthier, two be stronger, and three actually have some muscle under the fat for when he starts counting calories and is in a caloric deficit.
Question: Why would you delay weight loss for 2 months? And it be okay to gain weight on healthier food?
For him to gain weight on healthy foods is going to be a lot harder than to gain weight with garbage foods, in my opinion. But, if he did... as a beginner to the gym, he has little muscle mass if any, let him pack on some extra muscle before you strip him of calories.. Then when it's time to cut the weight, the calories get cut by however many 2,3, 500 whatever it is.. and there's actually muscle instead of just skin and bone.
You claim to have studied nutrition, so you know about p-ratio, right? And you understand what effect it has on an already overweight/overfat individual trying to bulk, as opposed to doing it when they're leaner, right?
I'm sure you know about that if you've studied nutrition.
A clean nutritional lean bulk is not detrimental to ones health, even if overweight or "obese" that's why healthy fat burning foods and vegetables are recommended in lean bulk diets.
Obesity is a health issue no matter the diet this advice is getting worse.
Eat a *kitten* ton of cleaner more nutritional food, cut out the garbage. Lose weight. Eat a *kitten* tone of *kitten* processed and fast food, die or be obese. Wanna get blunt? I mean it's simple
But you don't lose weight unless you're in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you're eating. Surely you learned that in your nutritional studies too. Didn't you? The most basic laws of energy balance? I'm sure they taught those in nutritional studies.
And you do understand the concepts of context and dosage, right? That's it's actually possible to eat a diet that is reasonably somewhere in between completely "clean" and shoveling junk food into your pie hole 24/7? You know, a little moderation and common sense? Middle ground?
Of course man, I'm not against cheat meals. I am against cheat days, but not cheat meals.
I'm all for eating in a way that I don't have to cheat.
Me, too! I made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread fit in my calories and macros yesterday. It was glorious.
I had this too. Girl you are my food twin!!!
Steak on the smoker and baked sweet potato tonight. Still twinning, @roxiedawn?1
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