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Keto means not counting calories
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cessi909
Posts: 25 Member
I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
1
Replies
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Try it yourself. Eat 4000 calories of fat and protein for a month and see what the scale does.
Calories are all that matter for weight loss. If that were not the case, every vegan in the world would be morbidly obese, since their diets are usually very high in carbohydrates.
There's a lot of BS and woo about keto, it's the big fad right now. All kinds of miracles ascribed to it, most of which are completely false. The claim that you don't have to worry about calories is one of them.45 -
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CICO for the win. Fat for fuel is fine..................but like any fuel, if you bring in more than you burn, you'll STORE.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
13 -
Just show them a recent picture of Jimmy Moore. Keto magic in all its glory.9
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Yeah! And while in keto you can fly and shoot beams out of your eyes!
Sorry, it's the latter. You're just more fat adapted and are more insulin sensitive in keto. But bending the rules of physics is not one of the perks. I mean, some people will find losing weight much more effortless when they're not on carbs so anecdotally she's right that "some people don't need to count/worry about calories while in keto", a lot of it is water at the beginning but you can see why someone would say that.11 -
My experience with KETO is way back in the Atkins days. I read the entire book before I started too. It did work and weight fell off, but I did have to count calories as well as carbs, fiber, net carbs, etc. The best part of this diet was, because of the higher protein and lower carb was, I had a "full feeling" much longer than I did with my carb heavy normal eating that got me fat...the worst part of Atkins was I missed pasta bad!
I could not do that diet indefinitely which is why I switched to weight watchers (for the pasta) and then finally got this crazy idea of CICO...which will never catch on
CICO is sustainable for life...IMHO. Keto is not.7 -
I've been keto for the past 4 months: I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.68
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I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
keto works like any other diet...calorie deficit. If you eat a surplus on keto you will gain weight...if you eat maintenance you will maintain weight.
Whether or not one would need to count calories is another matter. For many people, effectively eliminating and entire macro-nutrient is going to result in a substantial calorie cut and thus a calorie deficit. You don't have to count calories to be in a calorie deficit...I'm cutting my winter weight at the moment and I'm not logging or counting calories...but I am in a calorie deficit.11 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE of 2200 calories per day?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.59 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
Oh here we go. CICO is the energy balance equation, sounds like you don't know that. Can you please explain to the class how the human body can create energy from nothing or make ingested energy disappear? It is always CICO, it is irrefutable. It doesn't matter what the bastion of scientific discussions on Facebook have to say about it.24 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
If you don't pay attention to calories how do you know you are eating 2200 calories per day?
I just looked through your food diary, your logging shows 1200-1400 calories this past week, 1700-1900 the week before, 1200-1400 the week before that.35 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
If you're losing weight, you aren't eating to your TDEE.
You don't have to exercise to lose weight regardless of what diet your following.
Success rates of any and all diets are low.
I'm not keto and I eat
I'm not keto and I'm not starving all of the time.
You zealots are something else...CICO is the math...if you're losing weight, your calories coming in are less than calories going out...keto doesn't not defy science.
Jebus...18 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.43 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.22 -
Water will wet you, and fire will burn you, and if you consume more calories than you expend, you will put on weight.26
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Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
[1] People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. [2] I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. [3] But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
[1] Just for the record, I'm not "vehemently opposed to keto". I think it can be a viable way of eating just as any other diet can. I think it can be as healthy or unhealthy as one makes it. I did keto for a while (15 or so years ago) and successfully lost weight with it; I quit it because I didn't find it sustainable and it cut out too many foods that I enjoyed and couldn't see doing without for the rest of my life for no valid reason.
What I'm vehemently opposed to is all the fictional, magical, fantastical and fact-defying claims of wizardry surrounding the ketogenic diet. Whether I personally agree or disagree is irrelevant; science has conclusively shown that there is no "metabolic advantage" to a ketogenic diet.
[2] But isn't that exactly what you said in your first post? Let me quote it back for you:But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. Keto throws that to the wind.
[3] That is scientifically proven to be false, regardless of what you "know". The ketogenic diet does not magically circumvent the laws of energy balance and there is no "metabolic advantage" to the ketogenic diet.
I can "know" that gravity doesn't exist all I want to - but if I fall out of a tree I'm still going to land on the ground.25 -
Response to @Losinandmovin
CICO is not a diet. It's a statement about how weight gain/loss/maintenance happens.
Although most who lose weight do not sustain it, the exact stats are not known. There is zero evidence to suggest that doing low carb is more likely to succeed (has better stats) than logging or counting calories (and again CICO is not another name for counting calories).
Also, saying that keto does not work differently than any other diet (reducing calories) does not mean that someone is "vehemently opposed to keto" -- where on earth would you get that? I don't think my cat causes me to lose weight absent a calorie deficit, but I quite like my cat and am not vehemently opposed to him. I also don't think drinking coffee causes weight loss, but I love it and drink it. I'm just also into realism.
How do you know that people don't have to have a deficit to lose on keto and, key point, how does that work and how do other people manage to maintain or gain on keto?15 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
when it comes to weight loss it is a fad as the keto diet was for those with epilepsy,it in many controls seizures.. they also found that it helps those with PCOS,insulin resistance and diabetes. it wasnt meant to be used to lose weight.. calories are a unit of energy so ALL ways of eating including keto come down to CICO. I think you are confusing TDEE(which can change every day,depending on activity) with BMR or something else.
if you eat less than your TDEE you will lose weight,since your diary states you are eating less than 2200 calories then you are in FACT in a deficit,diary shows the proof of that . if your TDEE is 2200 and you ate that much then you would maintain your weight. more than that and you gain. also the fat you are burning is dietary fat as your body can only burn so much fat at a time. and fat is lost in a deficit.
if keto was a special way to lose weight it would be used in say weight watchers,nutrisystem and so on. not to mention not everyone can do keto or high fat due to health issues. so how do they lose weight then? I started out eating over 2000 calories and was losing weight,I cant do keto due to a health issue. I lost weight just fine andkept it off until I started moving less and eating a bit more.(CICO). many people here have kept the weight off and dont do or never have done keto. oh and my daughter has a thyroid disorder and her endocrinologist never mentioned keto. food has nothing to do with weight loss when it comes to what you are eating, its how much you are eating. I eat a decent amount of carbs too and still lost some days I was over 300g of carbs11
No thank you. I’m on the CICO side of this. I’m finding so many people though are touting keto as a miracle
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