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which is the best diet for overall health and weight loss
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This was an interesting discussion on inflammatory foods:
http://www.cavemandoctor.com/2012/03/27/inflammation-which-foods-take-the-blame/
Disclaimer: I did not look at the his sources.1 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?
I’m suggesting a person on a LCHF (not necessarily keto) will likely be eating less inflammatory and oxidising foods (less grains and refined sugars)! Are you suggesting otherwise?
Are you familiar with Blue Zones? Lots of fruits, veggies, legumes, whole grains, incredibly high incidence of healthy and active centenarians?
Fruit and veggies, saturated fats, nuts and seeds are all great inclusions in a LCHF diet - especially the veggies, nuts seeds.
I should think a diet like the blue zone is very high in antioxidants and low in most types of inflammatory foods.
You said grains are inflammatory, Blue Zones diets incorporate lots of grains. Also lots of fruit and wine, ie sugar. And very low in saturated fat - very little or no meat and dairy.
Are you distinguishing between whole grains or refined grains?
If the diet is very little meat, then it’s definitely not for me.
The wine sounds good!
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?
I’m suggesting a person on a LCHF (not necessarily keto) will likely be eating less inflammatory and oxidising foods (less grains and refined sugars)! Are you suggesting otherwise?
Are you familiar with Blue Zones? Lots of fruits, veggies, legumes, whole grains, incredibly high incidence of healthy and active centenarians?
Fruit and veggies, saturated fats, nuts and seeds are all great inclusions in a LCHF diet - especially the veggies, nuts seeds.
I should think a diet like the blue zone is very high in antioxidants and low in most types of inflammatory foods.
You said grains are inflammatory, Blue Zones diets incorporate lots of grains. Also lots of fruit and wine, ie sugar. And very low in saturated fat - very little or no meat and dairy.
Are you distinguishing between whole grains or refined grains?
If the diet is very little meat, then it’s definitely not for me.
The wine sounds good!
The point is, you didn't distinguish, you just said "grains".
It is certainly possible to eat a moderate or even high carb diet while avoiding refined grains and sugar. The Blue Zones have been doing it for generations.
I'm not saying the way the Blue Zones eat is necessary for good health, simply that I can't agree that a diet that is so different from the way they eat is somehow optimal.8 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?
I’m suggesting a person on a LCHF (not necessarily keto) will likely be eating less inflammatory and oxidising foods (less grains and refined sugars)! Are you suggesting otherwise?
Are you familiar with Blue Zones? Lots of fruits, veggies, legumes, whole grains, incredibly high incidence of healthy and active centenarians?
Fruit and veggies, saturated fats, nuts and seeds are all great inclusions in a LCHF diet - especially the veggies, nuts seeds.
I should think a diet like the blue zone is very high in antioxidants and low in most types of inflammatory foods.
You said grains are inflammatory, Blue Zones diets incorporate lots of grains. Also lots of fruit and wine, ie sugar. And very low in saturated fat - very little or no meat and dairy.
Are you distinguishing between whole grains or refined grains?
If the diet is very little meat, then it’s definitely not for me.
The wine sounds good!
The point is, you didn't distinguish, you just said "grains".
It is certainly possible to eat a moderate or even high carb diet while avoiding refined grains and sugar. The Blue Zones have been doing it for generations.
I'm not saying the way the Blue Zones eat is necessary for good health, simply that I can't agree that a diet that is so different from the way they eat is somehow optimal.
First off please don’t misrepresent what I have said. I didn’t say avoid, I said reduce!
Secondly both whole grains and refined grains are inflammatory, but then there are plenty of foods that are.
You do not need to avoid these foods in a healthy diet. But reducing an intake of these foods will certainly be healthy.
If you have any studies that prove LCHF Is not an optimal or healthy diet, feel free to post them!15 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?
I’m suggesting a person on a LCHF (not necessarily keto) will likely be eating less inflammatory and oxidising foods (less grains and refined sugars)! Are you suggesting otherwise?
Are you familiar with Blue Zones? Lots of fruits, veggies, legumes, whole grains, incredibly high incidence of healthy and active centenarians?
Fruit and veggies, saturated fats, nuts and seeds are all great inclusions in a LCHF diet - especially the veggies, nuts seeds.
I should think a diet like the blue zone is very high in antioxidants and low in most types of inflammatory foods.
You said grains are inflammatory, Blue Zones diets incorporate lots of grains. Also lots of fruit and wine, ie sugar. And very low in saturated fat - very little or no meat and dairy.
Are you distinguishing between whole grains or refined grains?
If the diet is very little meat, then it’s definitely not for me.
The wine sounds good!
The point is, you didn't distinguish, you just said "grains".
It is certainly possible to eat a moderate or even high carb diet while avoiding refined grains and sugar. The Blue Zones have been doing it for generations.
I'm not saying the way the Blue Zones eat is necessary for good health, simply that I can't agree that a diet that is so different from the way they eat is somehow optimal.
First off please don’t misrepresent what I have said. I didn’t say avoid, I said reduce!
Secondly both whole grains and refined grains are inflammatory, but then there are plenty of foods that are.
You do not need to avoid these foods in a healthy diet. But reducing an intake of these foods will certainly be healthy.
If you have any studies that prove LCHF Is not an optimal or healthy diet, feel free to post them!
You can't prove a negative, that is kind of "Scientific Process 101".
I think of avoiding and reducing as pretty much the same thing, semantics, I apologize if that wasn't clear.
Every time you reply to me, you slightly change what you are saying, so I'm just going to bow out here.8 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LCHF! Any diet which reduces inflammatory foods and increases intake of foods high in anti oxidants!
Bacon, cheese, coconut oil, bulletproof coffee and "fat bombs" are anti-inflammatory and high in antioxidants?
Foods high in saturated fats are definitely less inflammatory than foods high in polyunsaturated fats!
Are you suggesting that the foods you listed are the ‘only’ foods you can eat on a LCHF diet?
Are you suggesting that the foods eaten by people not on ketogenic diets are all inflammatory and low in antioxidants?
I’m suggesting a person on a LCHF (not necessarily keto) will likely be eating less inflammatory and oxidising foods (less grains and refined sugars)! Are you suggesting otherwise?
Are you familiar with Blue Zones? Lots of fruits, veggies, legumes, whole grains, incredibly high incidence of healthy and active centenarians?
Fruit and veggies, saturated fats, nuts and seeds are all great inclusions in a LCHF diet - especially the veggies, nuts seeds.
I should think a diet like the blue zone is very high in antioxidants and low in most types of inflammatory foods.
You said grains are inflammatory, Blue Zones diets incorporate lots of grains. Also lots of fruit and wine, ie sugar. And very low in saturated fat - very little or no meat and dairy.
Are you distinguishing between whole grains or refined grains?
If the diet is very little meat, then it’s definitely not for me.
The wine sounds good!
The point is, you didn't distinguish, you just said "grains".
It is certainly possible to eat a moderate or even high carb diet while avoiding refined grains and sugar. The Blue Zones have been doing it for generations.
I'm not saying the way the Blue Zones eat is necessary for good health, simply that I can't agree that a diet that is so different from the way they eat is somehow optimal.
First off please don’t misrepresent what I have said. I didn’t say avoid, I said reduce!
Secondly both whole grains and refined grains are inflammatory, but then there are plenty of foods that are.
You do not need to avoid these foods in a healthy diet. But reducing an intake of these foods will certainly be healthy.
If you have any studies that prove LCHF Is not an optimal or healthy diet, feel free to post them!
You can't prove a negative, that is kind of "Scientific Process 101".
I think of avoiding and reducing as pretty much the same thing, semantics, I apologize if that wasn't clear.
Every time you reply to me, you slightly change what you are saying, so I'm just going to bow out here.
19 -
There isn't any one diet that's right for everyone. Personal preferences, medical history, psychological perspective all factor in. There's a right diet for everyone, but not one right diet for all.9
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I eat lots of veggies, avocado, some fruit, beans, unsalted nuts like walnuts and sunflower seeds, fatty fish like sardines and salmon, a little chicken, red meat about once per month, use healthy oils like olive, sunflower, and flaxseed, and half cup servings of whole grains like brown rice, farro, and oatmeal once or twice per day.. I avoid processed foods, and make my own salad dressings and seasonings instead of buying canned or premade sauces that are full of salt, sugar, and additives. I used stevia instead of sugar in my coffee. When I need a sugar fix, I snack on dark chocolate or for a big binge a vegan cupcake or cashew milk ice cream (but once or twice per month). Even eating fruit 2 to 3 times per day, veggies at every meal, and whole grains, I rarely exceed my sugar or sodium goal. These foods are full of fiber and nutrients. There is no magic bullet--you need to eat a variety of foods, be conscious of portion sizes, use your scale to gauge your progress, get daily exercise, and forgive yourself the occasional lapse if you want to have "the healthiest diet in the world."
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For weight loss, whatever a person can stick to and meet their calorie goals.
For health, I am a fan of the Mediterranean and nordic ways of eating. I love the emphasis on fresh seasonal fruits and veggies, seafood and other lean protein, and inclusion of whole grains and dairy. I feel that keto and other low carb diets do not include enough fruits and vegetables for optimal health.
4 -
For weight loss, whatever a person can stick to and meet their calorie goals.
For health, I am a fan of the Mediterranean and nordic ways of eating. I love the emphasis on fresh seasonal fruits and veggies, seafood and other lean protein, and inclusion of whole grains and dairy. I feel that keto and other low carb diets do not include enough fruits and vegetables for optimal health.
How much fruit and veg is required for optimal health (peer reviewed studies if you have them)?
12 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »For weight loss, whatever a person can stick to and meet their calorie goals.
For health, I am a fan of the Mediterranean and nordic ways of eating. I love the emphasis on fresh seasonal fruits and veggies, seafood and other lean protein, and inclusion of whole grains and dairy. I feel that keto and other low carb diets do not include enough fruits and vegetables for optimal health.
How much fruit and veg is required for optimal health (peer reviewed studies if you have them)?
Depends how much organ meat you're willing to eat to meet your micronutrient needs.
11 -
stevencloser wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »For weight loss, whatever a person can stick to and meet their calorie goals.
For health, I am a fan of the Mediterranean and nordic ways of eating. I love the emphasis on fresh seasonal fruits and veggies, seafood and other lean protein, and inclusion of whole grains and dairy. I feel that keto and other low carb diets do not include enough fruits and vegetables for optimal health.
How much fruit and veg is required for optimal health (peer reviewed studies if you have them)?
Depends how much organ meat you're willing to eat to meet your micronutrient needs.
Or fat from decent quality meat.
Personally I like liver, kidneys (occasional lamb heart) bone broth.
But if I didn’t eat any of those things, how much veg and fruit would I need for my diet to be optimal? Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of veg or fruit?9 -
Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
6 -
stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?5 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of micronutrients, but if you take broccoli (often recognized as nutrient-rich) as an example, no. You wouldn't get "optimal" micronutrients from 100 grams of broccoli. The context of the rest of the diet would be important, but if you're counting on 100 grams of broccoli to give you what you need, you're going to be in trouble.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of micronutrients, but if you take broccoli (often recognized as nutrient-rich) as an example, no. You wouldn't get "optimal" micronutrients from 100 grams of broccoli. The context of the rest of the diet would be important, but if you're counting on 100 grams of broccoli to give you what you need, you're going to be in trouble.
100g of broccoli is 7g of cArbs! Could I get my micro nutritional requirements from the 33 - 93g of carbs from other fruit and veg ?
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of micronutrients, but if you take broccoli (often recognized as nutrient-rich) as an example, no. You wouldn't get "optimal" micronutrients from 100 grams of broccoli. The context of the rest of the diet would be important, but if you're counting on 100 grams of broccoli to give you what you need, you're going to be in trouble.
100g of broccoli is 7g of cArbs! Could I get my micro nutritional requirements from the 33 - 93g of carbs from other fruit and veg ?
Are you asking about eating 40 -100 grams of carbohydrates per day? Because your question was about eating 40-100 grams of fruit or vegetables.
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janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of micronutrients, but if you take broccoli (often recognized as nutrient-rich) as an example, no. You wouldn't get "optimal" micronutrients from 100 grams of broccoli. The context of the rest of the diet would be important, but if you're counting on 100 grams of broccoli to give you what you need, you're going to be in trouble.
100g of broccoli is 7g of cArbs! Could I get my micro nutritional requirements from the 33 - 93g of carbs from other fruit and veg ?
Are you asking about eating 40 -100 grams of carbohydrates per day? Because your question was about eating 40-100 grams of fruit or vegetables.
Sorry I wasn’t literal enough.40. - 100g of carbs ( general range for LCHF) from fruit and veg .
2 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Regular meat is going to miss quite some nutrients. Unless you can afford and eat multiple pounds of sirloin a day.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3794/2
As I am not advocating eating just meat as a diet, my question was:
Could I get optimal micro nutrients from 40 - 100g of fruit or veg?
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of micronutrients, but if you take broccoli (often recognized as nutrient-rich) as an example, no. You wouldn't get "optimal" micronutrients from 100 grams of broccoli. The context of the rest of the diet would be important, but if you're counting on 100 grams of broccoli to give you what you need, you're going to be in trouble.
100g of broccoli is 7g of cArbs! Could I get my micro nutritional requirements from the 33 - 93g of carbs from other fruit and veg ?
Are you asking about eating 40 -100 grams of carbohydrates per day? Because your question was about eating 40-100 grams of fruit or vegetables.
Sorry I wasn’t literal enough.40. - 100g of carbs ( general range for LCHF) from fruit and veg .
Isn't this going to depend on the fruits and vegetables you choose? Fruits and vegetables aren't interchangeable foods, they have varying amounts of different micronutrients.
I'm sure there are ways one could meet their nutritional needs eating 100 grams of carbohydrates per day, but if you're arguing that it is *optimal* for people to limit their fruit and vegetable consumption to hit this target, I'm not sure that I'd agree.8 -
The one you can stick to for the rest of your life. Most "diets" fail because people are only temporarily on them, as soon as they stop, the weight usually comes right back on.
I eat whatever I want with the only rule that I remain at a calorie deficit until I hit my goal weight/size. Then I plan on eating at maintenance. I eat mostly healthy, but I never deprive myself of anything because it's junk food. I just eat "junk" in moderation and either increase my exercise or rearrange my eating to fit in the snack. I'd be (and was while yo-yo dieting) miserable eating only "good/clean" food, and mental health is just as important as physical health.4
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