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Natural is Healthy Fallacy
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As for making a difference, it disturbs me deeply that a delusional parent who has not come to terms with his deadly beliefs, is finding a platform to reinforce these delusions. (Grandeur).0
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We don’t need regulations to slap down an operation like this. Market forces and publicity will take care of it.
Here are the event organizers.
http://www.wellnessexpo.com
Do you not have expos in the US? It’s a collection of booths with vendors hawking their wares and an area set aside for speakers. The event typically spans a weekend.
I go for the swag.
Hubby and I have attended auto, camera, home and garden, wedding, agricultural and health expos.
There probably are health expos in the US. It's a big country. I've never heard of one near me but I live in a very rural area. We have that sort of thing for hunting & fishing, camping and arts & crafts, though.0 -
We don’t need regulations to slap down an operation like this. Market forces and publicity will take care of it.
Here are the event organizers.
http://www.wellnessexpo.com
Do you not have expos in the US? It’s a collection of booths with vendors hawking their wares and an area set aside for speakers. The event typically spans a weekend.
I go for the swag.
Hubby and I have attended auto, camera, home and garden, wedding, agricultural and health expos.
We have them in the US. Personally, if they're commercial events, I expect them to be full of flapdoodle; and I do not feel that speakers need to be background checked (caveat emptor), especially if this lack is noted somewhere in the small print.
That said, I think the speaker-to-have-been is beyond the pale (assuming his speech is not about his grave error and deep contrition), and that it would've been fun to go to the event and out him to the audience. That the public outrage would hit the event promoter hard in the pocket book, the place he cares about most, seems like justice enough.
If someone took the idiot's idiotic advice, and suffered for it, it seems like both speaker and promoter could be liable for civil damages, perhaps even criminal charges in a narrow range of very egregious cases, and that's about as far as I'd want the government mucking around in it. The government's already underperforming on enough vitally important fronts; they don't need to be spread even thinner.3 -
I will sadly admit that I have fallen for snake oil salesmen in the past and bought the magic pill that will help me with weight loss. I don't like to think of myself as a stupid person, but boy can I jump on a bandwagon, even when I have doubts about the product. Ultimately the only thing that got lighter was my wallet. There is just so much of it these days, I just saw leggings advertised on FB that contain some magic potion that will help you slim down. I mean really??? but you know people will buy it. Very few people are interested in hard work for results these days. I get now
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The majority of sellers at just about any expo are scammers. They know that they can convince people at venues that revolve around health with some gobly gook speaking and cherry picking evidence to support their product. IMO, the ones who buy into it hopefully learn a lesson. Caveat emptor.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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fionawilliamson wrote: »I will sadly admit that I have fallen for snake oil salesmen in the past and bought the magic pill that will help me with weight loss. I don't like to think of myself as a stupid person, but boy can I jump on a bandwagon, even when I have doubts about the product. Ultimately the only thing that got lighter was my wallet. There is just so much of it these days, I just saw leggings advertised on FB that contain some magic potion that will help you slim down. I mean really??? but you know people will buy it. Very few people are interested in hard work for results these days. I get now
"Spandex"?
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I wonder sometimes if our ultra safe society helped cause this complacency. After all, there are rules these days. Snake oil salesmen aren’t putting cocaine or arsenic in their products any more. At least I hope they aren’t. The worst that can happen is that shills end up buying expensive sugar pills. ...
IMHO, it's not that we have an ultra safe society, it's that the government has worked really hard to make us believe that we do, and that they are the reason for this. I think this contributes to a lot of people's beliefs about some of the more outrageous health claims, actually - most people believe the claims that are TOO out there would be illegal, so the promoters can't lie too much.
Now don't get me wrong, we DO have laws that are geared to protect the public. But at the same time, companies battle constantly to get around those laws, or have exceptions made, or flat out ignore them or 'reinterpret' them so that they can do whatever the heck they want to, usually within the bounds of 'make the most money without so many overt problems that our PR bites the dust and/or we lost too much money in lawsuits or penalties.'
Companies are allowed to add chemicals and substances to make things seem fresher or different than they are, change the names of ingredients so they can say they are 'free' from an ingredient when they have something that is essentially identical. They can create their own definitions of what it means to be 'free' from something (an allergen, nitrates, whatever).
Chemicals are banned, but then exceptions and exemptions are made so frequently that it becomes almost meaningless (strawberries and Methyl Bromide are a good example).
Arsenic - that's actually only regulated in water and in animal products. So while putting IN a poison like arsenic into a food might be hard to justify, HAVING too much arsenic in food due to the area it's grown or contamination in the soil? THAT is perfectly all right and legal as there are no regulations about it - and it does result in foods that can be relatively high in arsenic, at least above levels allowed in water (such as in rice, which was shown in a study done by consumer reports within the last 5 years or so).
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What do people call research these days? Read the top five hits in google, a Netflix documentary, and a few testimonials? No wonder people are confused.
“The market” in this case is the health food industry represented by the health expo promoter. Do appropriate background checks.
How different would it be in the US right now if there had been more rigorous background checks on the fitness of the electoral candidates?
I don't know you, but if you'd been involved in party politics in the U.S. you'd have been able to get closer to the process of selecting them. It's worse than you think.0 -
@JeromeBarry1 my girlfriend says the GOP tried to stop Trump in Wisconsin but he had already built up too much momentum.
I’m Canadian but because of the proximity I’m pretty familiar with the Big Neighbour to the south.0 -
I wonder sometimes if our ultra safe society helped cause this complacency. After all, there are rules these days. Snake oil salesmen aren’t putting cocaine or arsenic in their products any more. At least I hope they aren’t. The worst that can happen is that shills end up buying expensive sugar pills. ...
IMHO, it's not that we have an ultra safe society, it's that the government has worked really hard to make us believe that we do, and that they are the reason for this. I think this contributes to a lot of people's beliefs about some of the more outrageous health claims, actually - most people believe the claims that are TOO out there would be illegal, so the promoters can't lie too much.
Now don't get me wrong, we DO have laws that are geared to protect the public. But at the same time, companies battle constantly to get around those laws, or have exceptions made, or flat out ignore them or 'reinterpret' them so that they can do whatever the heck they want to, usually within the bounds of 'make the most money without so many overt problems that our PR bites the dust and/or we lost too much money in lawsuits or penalties.'
Companies are allowed to add chemicals and substances to make things seem fresher or different than they are, change the names of ingredients so they can say they are 'free' from an ingredient when they have something that is essentially identical. They can create their own definitions of what it means to be 'free' from something (an allergen, nitrates, whatever).
Chemicals are banned, but then exceptions and exemptions are made so frequently that it becomes almost meaningless (strawberries and Methyl Bromide are a good example).
Arsenic - that's actually only regulated in water and in animal products. So while putting IN a poison like arsenic into a food might be hard to justify, HAVING too much arsenic in food due to the area it's grown or contamination in the soil? THAT is perfectly all right and legal as there are no regulations about it - and it does result in foods that can be relatively high in arsenic, at least above levels allowed in water (such as in rice, which was shown in a study done by consumer reports within the last 5 years or so).
For fun I’ve been reading local newspapers from the Edwardian era. Today I read a tip to fix colours in fabrics - soak it in a solution of “sugar of lead” which turns out to be a thing, and was so named because it tastes sweet. It also happens to be as toxic as it sounds.
I can live with background amounts of all sorts of dangerous substances. I haven’t given up on my Tuna. Because this stuff has always been around.
We are living in a relatively healthy and safe period.
Also in the same paper was the Surgeon General’s report of hospitalizations. The top contenders are the flu, Red Measles and something called St. Vitus ’ dance. This last one is a streptococcus infection. There’s also a sad story of an engineer badly scalded who died after three days of historic struggle.
The world was on the cusp of wide application of antibiotics and vaccines were in their infancy. Surgery was new as antisepsis was new.
Dish soap, hair cleaners and tooth cleaners came in a powder.2 -
I guess this topic is not as controversial as I thought?
"Instead, David Stephan gave him more supplements — and invited the boy’s grandfather over to give Ezekiel a blessing. The judge concluded David Stephan took “no real action” when Ezekiel experienced irregular breathing. And when the toddler stopped breathing altogether? David Stephan’s first reaction was to call his dad. Only later did the couple call 911."
Alternative medicine and faith. A lot of readers would not dare face the fact that neither help physically.0 -
Faith in alternative medicine can get all mixed up with spiritual faith. Taken to the extreme giving over to conventional medicine might feel like making a pact with the devil.
Where is the god given critical thinking? Jesus pointed out that rescuing a donkey from a ditch on the sabbath is preferable to letting it suffer.4 -
My heart is broken about this child's death.
A big part of this problem is the multi-level marketing companies. Someone can invest a couple hundred bucks in an essential oil company (I'm looking at you, Young Living and doTERRA), and suddenly, after spending the weekend downing a bottle of wine and reading the "resources" that their upline gave them, they are suddenly experts.
Now, I like essential oils. They make my house smell great without the chemicals in air fresheners, which give my husband a headache. They're a good addition to beauty products. A couple of drops of lavender oil in a hot bath can help me relax at the end of a long day. Sniffing a little peppermint oil will help open up my sinuses when I wake up feeling a little "stuffy" and "blegh." But these women promote essential oils as an alternative to actual real medicine, even though we have many, many years of advancement and many, many billions of dollars invested in the medical world. Drop a little lavender in your child's bath to help them relax before bed? Sure! Think you're going to cure a 105 degree fever with essential oils? No way. To the emergency room you should go, immediately!
Essential oils are just one example. These multi-level marketing companies promote so many "health and wellness" products. Yet, they're total BS.
So many countries don't have modern medicine at all. We do. Use it, dang it, especially when it comes to your children and their LIVES!!!4 -
The grandfather started this company.
https://www.truehope.com/home/contact
He claims his vitamin mixture controls bipolar disorder and ADD. I thought I heard of him before.0 -
fionawilliamson wrote: »I will sadly admit that I have fallen for snake oil salesmen in the past and bought the magic pill that will help me with weight loss. I don't like to think of myself as a stupid person, but boy can I jump on a bandwagon, even when I have doubts about the product. Ultimately the only thing that got lighter was my wallet. There is just so much of it these days, I just saw leggings advertised on FB that contain some magic potion that will help you slim down. I mean really??? but you know people will buy it. Very few people are interested in hard work for results these days. I get now
"Spandex"?
sweat pants. like the waist trimmers0 -
fionawilliamson wrote: »I will sadly admit that I have fallen for snake oil salesmen in the past and bought the magic pill that will help me with weight loss. I don't like to think of myself as a stupid person, but boy can I jump on a bandwagon, even when I have doubts about the product. Ultimately the only thing that got lighter was my wallet. There is just so much of it these days, I just saw leggings advertised on FB that contain some magic potion that will help you slim down. I mean really??? but you know people will buy it. Very few people are interested in hard work for results these days. I get now
"Spandex"?
sweat pants. like the waist trimmers
Once again, I didn't put in enough enough smilies/winkies. Here ya go: 0 -
Arsenic is natural
Multivitamins are not natural
That about sums up my thoughts on natural being healthy. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not1 -
Obviously I don't like people who attempt to market bs treatments on the back of fearmongering actual medicine. That said I can't support deplatforming people. If someone wants to speak publicly and other people want to pay to hear them...let it happen. If you dont like it then get your own platform and speak your peace.
I am not comfortable with the idea that if you dont like what someone has to say that empowers you to attempt to prevent their speech. I fear we are getting way to comfortable doing that and every example we accept is another example that normalizes deplatforming as just the thing you do when you disagree with someone.3 -
I don't think someone's freedom of speech should be censored unless their ideas are purposely and outright hurting someone else. Some people sell BS, and others are willing to buy it. People need to be responsible for themselves and educate themselves on what's out there before they accept any random idea someone is trying to sell them. There's a lot of information out there and people should have the right to all of it even if it's information they don't agree with.0
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How good are people at evaluating the validity of claims these days, when few investigate further than the top ten google hits?
Is it all buyer beware or do agencies that make health claims be held to higher account?
In Canada, pharmacists, doctors and lawyers are restricted in the ways they can advertise their services. I must say the ambulance chasing commercials I see from the US leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Then again, negative political ads give me the same rotten feeling.2
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