Deadlifts - leg day or back?
Options
Replies
-
I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
0 -
billkansas wrote: »I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
The fact that your squat and deadlift are within 25 lbs is not a bad thing. My best deadlift was 620 and my best squat 600. It's when your bench is better than your squat or deadlift that you have to worry. You should try an alternating grip, one overhand, one underhand. I can lift almost 700 pounds with an over/under but my double overhand grip fails at about 365. Also try deadlifting with a good bar with deep knurling. Cheap bars, especially chrome bars, are hard to hang on to. I would strongly suggest not using straps but to each their own.3 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Conventional here, chalk, straps for back off sets, and alternating grip.
I’m weird in that I think deadlifting is not really all that hard. I hate benching and in 10 months of never missing training I have only gotten to 225lbs. Deadlift on the other hand I can pull 520lbs in same time.
I think I have longish arms for height. This might help with dead’s and hurt on bench.
This seriously blows my mind how you seem to be such a huge natural puller. I suspect you have a long arms but bench is also a hard lift for most people to increase. Patience and you will find your bench takes off soon.
Likely. Yesterday I worked to a heavy set of below knee rack pulls (545x5). The bar seriously only moves like 6-8 inches from just below the knee to the lockout. I tried pulling sumo but didn't like it as much as conventional but I wonder if I could pull more if I trained it.0 -
Thanks randycairns4655, I may go back to the over/under grip... at least on a trial basis. Thought this increased the risk of injury, but maybe that's rare. Probably not going to hurt anything with my pitiful pulls, regardless of the grip. I couldn't lift 365 lbs one millimeter off the ground in my last workout. I can't imagine straps or the best bar in the world helping much. I'll keep working at it.0
-
randycairns4655 wrote: »billkansas wrote: »I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
The fact that your squat and deadlift are within 25 lbs is not a bad thing. My best deadlift was 620 and my best squat 600. It's when your bench is better than your squat or deadlift that you have to worry. You should try an alternating grip, one overhand, one underhand. I can lift almost 700 pounds with an over/under but my double overhand grip fails at about 365. Also try deadlifting with a good bar with deep knurling. Cheap bars, especially chrome bars, are hard to hang on to. I would strongly suggest not using straps but to each their own.
Completely agree on the bars. I hunt down the bars with best knurling for pulls. I'll even wait for someone to finish so I can grab the good bar in gym. Shallow knurling just sucks when you don't use straps. I try to limit straps to backoff sets to help increase grip strength. I don't think limiting my training by grip strength is smart so I strap for likely half of my volume work.0 -
billkansas wrote: »Thanks randycairns4655, I may go back to the over/under grip... at least on a trial basis. Thought this increased the risk of injury, but maybe that's rare. Probably not going to hurt anything with my pitiful pulls, regardless of the grip. I couldn't lift 365 lbs one millimeter off the ground in my last workout. I can't imagine straps or the best bar in the world helping much. I'll keep working at it.
Your welcome. I'm not aware of any risk of injury with an over under grip. I have been told that you should alternate which hand is over and which is under, to keep your back muscles balanced, but my right hand does not twist fat enough for an underhand grip without a lot of pain. I have used the same grip for over ten years. Just start light, learn proper form, and work your way up. It is a very technical lift so, if your goal is to lift a lot of weight, you should seek advice on form from. You can lift 500 lbs with bad form, maybe 550, but unless your a genetic freak, you probably won't get much higher without really good, solid technique. good luck.0 -
randycairns4655 wrote: »billkansas wrote: »I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
The fact that your squat and deadlift are within 25 lbs is not a bad thing. My best deadlift was 620 and my best squat 600. It's when your bench is better than your squat or deadlift that you have to worry. You should try an alternating grip, one overhand, one underhand. I can lift almost 700 pounds with an over/under but my double overhand grip fails at about 365. Also try deadlifting with a good bar with deep knurling. Cheap bars, especially chrome bars, are hard to hang on to. I would strongly suggest not using straps but to each their own.
Completely agree on the bars. I hunt down the bars with best knurling for pulls. I'll even wait for someone to finish so I can grab the good bar in gym. Shallow knurling just sucks when you don't use straps. I try to limit straps to backoff sets to help increase grip strength. I don't think limiting my training by grip strength is smart so I strap for likely half of my
.....................................................
Okiludy,
My personal opinion on straps, and it's just my opinion, is that I will use them when I reach the point to where I could lift more but my grip was failing. Right now, my grip will hold up to whatever my back and legs can lift but, at a maximum effort, I am nearing the point of grip failure. So far I have never dropped a lift but it has been close. I compete so, in training, I want everything to be harder than it will be in a meet. I don't fault anyone for using straps, but since they are not allowed in competition I don't rely on them in training. And I do think you will develop more grip strength without them but that's just my opinion. Good bars are awesome though. Especially a really flexible bar that has some whip.0 -
randycairns4655 wrote: »randycairns4655 wrote: »billkansas wrote: »I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
The fact that your squat and deadlift are within 25 lbs is not a bad thing. My best deadlift was 620 and my best squat 600. It's when your bench is better than your squat or deadlift that you have to worry. You should try an alternating grip, one overhand, one underhand. I can lift almost 700 pounds with an over/under but my double overhand grip fails at about 365. Also try deadlifting with a good bar with deep knurling. Cheap bars, especially chrome bars, are hard to hang on to. I would strongly suggest not using straps but to each their own.
Completely agree on the bars. I hunt down the bars with best knurling for pulls. I'll even wait for someone to finish so I can grab the good bar in gym. Shallow knurling just sucks when you don't use straps. I try to limit straps to backoff sets to help increase grip strength. I don't think limiting my training by grip strength is smart so I strap for likely half of my
.....................................................
Okiludy,
My personal opinion on straps, and it's just my opinion, is that I will use them when I reach the point to where I could lift more but my grip was failing. Right now, my grip will hold up to whatever my back and legs can lift but, at a maximum effort, I am nearing the point of grip failure. So far I have never dropped a lift but it has been close. I compete so, in training, I want everything to be harder than it will be in a meet. I don't fault anyone for using straps, but since they are not allowed in competition I don't rely on them in training. And I do think you will develop more grip strength without them but that's just my opinion. Good bars are awesome though. Especially a really flexible bar that has some whip.
Yep, I reached that point I mentioned where I couldn’t keep up training volume with grip that I mentioned. I held out as long as I could but at some point most likely need to go with straps. I still limit it to back off sets.1 -
randycairns4655 wrote: »Silkysausage wrote: »The high number weights are frying my little brain! How you all lift so much is astounding.
It takes years of training. When I started competing I could only deadlift 400 lbs. it took a year or two to consistently pull over 500 lbs, but going from 500 to 600 was way harder than going from 400 to 500. Once you cross over 500, your form has to be pretty darn good to pull in the high 500's to low 600's. You cannot fake it with that much weight, you also need to have the mental game because your body feels like it's tearing itself apart and you have to be able to push through that and visualize the lift in your mind. If you doubt you can lift it, you can't.
So I could use your help as my goal is to get from 500# to 600# by the end of the year. I am not a power lifter I am 5’7 187lbs with around 13% BF. My best deadlift to date is 500. I know you said it was a lot harder going from 500 to 600. What else could I do to improve.
0 -
mkgoodson1007 wrote: »randycairns4655 wrote: »Silkysausage wrote: »The high number weights are frying my little brain! How you all lift so much is astounding.
It takes years of training. When I started competing I could only deadlift 400 lbs. it took a year or two to consistently pull over 500 lbs, but going from 500 to 600 was way harder than going from 400 to 500. Once you cross over 500, your form has to be pretty darn good to pull in the high 500's to low 600's. You cannot fake it with that much weight, you also need to have the mental game because your body feels like it's tearing itself apart and you have to be able to push through that and visualize the lift in your mind. If you doubt you can lift it, you can't.
So I could use your help as my goal is to get from 500# to 600# by the end of the year. I am not a power lifter I am 5’7 187lbs with around 13% BF. My best deadlift to date is 500. I know you said it was a lot harder going from 500 to 600. What else could I do to improve.
Well it's hard to say without being able to see what your form looks like or knowing what your training looks like. Having that low of a body fat percentage could help you or hurt you. The first thing I would suggest is that, if your pulling 500 now, make your next goal 505, not 600. Once you hit 505, make your next goal 510 and so on. Put together a 8 to 12 week plan, back off the weight to doing 4 or 5 sets of 8 to 10 reps with say 200 lbs. increase the weight by 10 pounds a week and drop the reps so that by the 7th week or so you are doing 3 or 4 sets of 2-3 reps. So increase weight, drop reps each week until the last week where you will do 2 sets of 2 reps at about 95% of your projected 1 rep max (505). Take a week or two off from deadlifting, then go for a PR pull of 505. That is a good place to start. You will be at your peak strength for two or three weeks, then it will begin to drop off, start the process over again but start over at a little heavier weight than you did the first time. That's a good basic plan. There are more advanced methods but that is a good place to start. Good luck. Work on perfecting your form too. Place your feet where they would be if you were going to jump up onto a box, the bar should be centered between the tip of your toes and your shin, bend your knees until your shin touches the bar, grip the bar with an over/under grip, pull the slack out of the bar, your arms should be straight up and down, if your shoulders are too far forward, drop your butt, if your shoulders are behind the bar raise your butt. Drive your feet through the floor and leg press the weight up, your not lifting with your arms, your pressing with your legs. Once the bar clears your knee's, squeeze your glutes hard and drive your hips forward, lockout your knees and that's it.1 -
I am a conventional puller, but I train both conventional and sumo. However, I pull conventional on back day and sumo on leg day. Sumo deadlifts are one of my accessories to squats and I believe it has truly helped my squat.2
-
missparkerr92 wrote: »I am a conventional puller, but I train both conventional and sumo. However, I pull conventional on back day and sumo on leg day. Sumo deadlifts are one of my accessories to squats and I believe it has truly helped my squat.
Nice. I am working to increase my squat so maybe I should try sumo deadlifts once in a while. Do you deadlift sumo before or after squat on leg day and do you go heavy on both. I have been around 455 on my squat for a while and I am trying to get to 500 so I am willing to give it a try. Thanks.
0 -
I sumo after I squatmkgoodson1007 wrote: »missparkerr92 wrote: »I am a conventional puller, but I train both conventional and sumo. However, I pull conventional on back day and sumo on leg day. Sumo deadlifts are one of my accessories to squats and I believe it has truly helped my squat.
Nice. I am working to increase my squat so maybe I should try sumo deadlifts once in a while. Do you deadlift sumo before or after squat on leg day and do you go heavy on both. I have been around 455 on my squat for a while and I am trying to get to 500 so I am willing to give it a try. Thanks.
I’m at a 430 squat 350ish sumo (might be higher I can’t remember the last time I Max’d on sumo. I do a lot of hypertrophy so I’ll do like 70-75% of my max for sets of 6 on squats, maybe go for a heavy set of 3 because powerlifter. It kinda depends how I’m feeling as I don’t stick to a set program until 12 weeks out from a meet. But then I’ll go to sumo and do like 3 sets of 8 on sumo at a RPE of maybe ...7. Heavy but not so heavy my form breaks down early on.
1 -
randycairns4655 wrote: »randycairns4655 wrote: »billkansas wrote: »I've got a lot to learn about deadlift and actually suck at it. My deadlift for 5 reps only beats my squat for 5,5,5 by 25lbs. How terrible is that? I deadlift once per week. I've never tried straps but need to since my double overhand hook grip seems to be my limiting element. I cannot fathom how guys can pull 500lbs... I think I'm going to go cry now.
The fact that your squat and deadlift are within 25 lbs is not a bad thing. My best deadlift was 620 and my best squat 600. It's when your bench is better than your squat or deadlift that you have to worry. You should try an alternating grip, one overhand, one underhand. I can lift almost 700 pounds with an over/under but my double overhand grip fails at about 365. Also try deadlifting with a good bar with deep knurling. Cheap bars, especially chrome bars, are hard to hang on to. I would strongly suggest not using straps but to each their own.
Completely agree on the bars. I hunt down the bars with best knurling for pulls. I'll even wait for someone to finish so I can grab the good bar in gym. Shallow knurling just sucks when you don't use straps. I try to limit straps to backoff sets to help increase grip strength. I don't think limiting my training by grip strength is smart so I strap for likely half of my
.....................................................
Okiludy,
My personal opinion on straps, and it's just my opinion, is that I will use them when I reach the point to where I could lift more but my grip was failing. Right now, my grip will hold up to whatever my back and legs can lift but, at a maximum effort, I am nearing the point of grip failure. So far I have never dropped a lift but it has been close. I compete so, in training, I want everything to be harder than it will be in a meet. I don't fault anyone for using straps, but since they are not allowed in competition I don't rely on them in training. And I do think you will develop more grip strength without them but that's just my opinion. Good bars are awesome though. Especially a really flexible bar that has some whip.
Yep, I reached that point I mentioned where I couldn’t keep up training volume with grip that I mentioned. I held out as long as I could but at some point most likely need to go with straps. I still limit it to back off sets.
I was using straps for a while especially when lifting heavy and I started to have issues with my hands falling asleep while sleeping and even driving. Sometimes is was very painful. I stopped using straps several months ago and I haven’t had any problems since.0 -
missparkerr92 wrote: »
I sumo after I squatmkgoodson1007 wrote: »missparkerr92 wrote: »I am a conventional puller, but I train both conventional and sumo. However, I pull conventional on back day and sumo on leg day. Sumo deadlifts are one of my accessories to squats and I believe it has truly helped my squat.
Nice. I am working to increase my squat so maybe I should try sumo deadlifts once in a while. Do you deadlift sumo before or after squat on leg day and do you go heavy on both. I have been around 455 on my squat for a while and I am trying to get to 500 so I am willing to give it a try. Thanks. I’m at a 430 squat 350ish sumo (might be higher I can’t remember the last time I Max’d on sumo. I do a lot of hypertrophy so I’ll do like 70-75% of my max for sets of 6 on squats, maybe go for a heavy set of 3 because powerlifter. It kinda depends how I’m feeling as I don’t stick to a set program until 12 weeks out from a meet. But then I’ll go to sumo and do like 3 sets of 8 on sumo at a RPE of maybe ...7. Heavy but not so heavy my form breaks down early on.
That's awesome. 430 is a very impressive squat. I have been really impressed with the female powerlifters these last few years, they are making some amazing lifts. Kim Walford deadlifting nearly 600 lbs, Bonica Lough squatting over 600 and totaling over 1500 Raw. Jennifer Thompson bench pressing 335 Raw. The women are coming on in that sport and surpassing many of the men. It's a lot of fun to watch. Keep up the excellent work.2 -
I do a full-body workout 3x/week and do DLs in every workout (so 3x/week for those scoring at home). However, I only do singles as I've dealt with lower back arthritis (likely brought on by poor deadlift form when I first started lifting). I've found keeping the reps down after fixing my form keeps me pain-free. Were I to pursue a split, I probably would do them on back day to separate them them Squats and other leg exercises. My PR is only 365lbs at 170lb body weight.0
-
randycairns4655 wrote: »missparkerr92 wrote: »
I sumo after I squatmkgoodson1007 wrote: »missparkerr92 wrote: »I am a conventional puller, but I train both conventional and sumo. However, I pull conventional on back day and sumo on leg day. Sumo deadlifts are one of my accessories to squats and I believe it has truly helped my squat.
Nice. I am working to increase my squat so maybe I should try sumo deadlifts once in a while. Do you deadlift sumo before or after squat on leg day and do you go heavy on both. I have been around 455 on my squat for a while and I am trying to get to 500 so I am willing to give it a try. Thanks. I’m at a 430 squat 350ish sumo (might be higher I can’t remember the last time I Max’d on sumo. I do a lot of hypertrophy so I’ll do like 70-75% of my max for sets of 6 on squats, maybe go for a heavy set of 3 because powerlifter. It kinda depends how I’m feeling as I don’t stick to a set program until 12 weeks out from a meet. But then I’ll go to sumo and do like 3 sets of 8 on sumo at a RPE of maybe ...7. Heavy but not so heavy my form breaks down early on.
That's awesome. 430 is a very impressive squat. I have been really impressed with the female powerlifters these last few years, they are making some amazing lifts. Kim Walford deadlifting nearly 600 lbs, Bonica Lough squatting over 600 and totaling over 1500 Raw. Jennifer Thompson bench pressing 335 Raw. The women are coming on in that sport and surpassing many of the men. It's a lot of fun to watch. Keep up the excellent work.
*kitten* ya some of them are inspiring. Bonica is strong as hell. I doubt I'll ever hit a 1300 total as a male at 240lbs but seeing some of the ladies hit those totals gives me hope to do it someday.1 -
I do a full-body workout 3x/week and do DLs in every workout (so 3x/week for those scoring at home). However, I only do singles as I've dealt with lower back arthritis (likely brought on by poor deadlift form when I first started lifting). I've found keeping the reps down after fixing my form keeps me pain-free. Were I to pursue a split, I probably would do them on back day to separate them them Squats and other leg exercises. My PR is only 365lbs at 170lb body weight.
This is helpful to me. I'm 53 and have a bad lower back and bad right knee. With that said, I'm pretty active. I'm trying to improve my power for Indoor Rowing currently (I'm decently competitive in that niche' sport). I've been doing tons of KB Swings recently but have been considering adding in deadlifts. I row 6 days a week, so that's like a super light, high rep deadlift if done correctly (most people at the gym don't have a clue how to row, the mechanics are actually similar to a dead lift or perhaps a clean).
I was concerned about my knee (and back but mostly knee) in doing deadlifts. I have crap for a structure left on the right knee. I'm doing around 140 heavy KB swings on top of my rowing 3 times a week and after I get pretty solid on maybe 200 swings every hard row day, perhaps replacing that (for a while at least) with deadlifts. I think my right knee (after roughly 10 years of rehab from a catastrophic injury) is finally stable enough to not shake/quiver back and forth under heavy weights.
I'm still on the fence about it (heavier weights are a bit intimidating to me for the reasons mentioned) but at the same time, I've gotten fairly strong already through the rowing and KB work I do. If I start deadlifts, I'll work with a trainer for proper form for at least a couple of sessions. I'm also worried I'll get injured and hurt my rowing training, which progressed well this year.
The other question is the day to do it on. Rowing (if done hard) is very taxing but I find that lifting on the harder session days allows a "break" on the long slow days and I use those for recovery days, which helps keep me injury free.
0 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I do a full-body workout 3x/week and do DLs in every workout (so 3x/week for those scoring at home). However, I only do singles as I've dealt with lower back arthritis (likely brought on by poor deadlift form when I first started lifting). I've found keeping the reps down after fixing my form keeps me pain-free. Were I to pursue a split, I probably would do them on back day to separate them them Squats and other leg exercises. My PR is only 365lbs at 170lb body weight.
This is helpful to me. I'm 53 and have a bad lower back and bad right knee. With that said, I'm pretty active. I'm trying to improve my power for Indoor Rowing currently (I'm decently competitive in that niche' sport). I've been doing tons of KB Swings recently but have been considering adding in deadlifts. I row 6 days a week, so that's like a super light, high rep deadlift if done correctly (most people at the gym don't have a clue how to row, the mechanics are actually similar to a dead lift or perhaps a clean).
I was concerned about my knee (and back but mostly knee) in doing deadlifts. I have crap for a structure left on the right knee. I'm doing around 140 heavy KB swings on top of my rowing 3 times a week and after I get pretty solid on maybe 200 swings every hard row day, perhaps replacing that (for a while at least) with deadlifts. I think my right knee (after roughly 10 years of rehab from a catastrophic injury) is finally stable enough to not shake/quiver back and forth under heavy weights.
I'm still on the fence about it (heavier weights are a bit intimidating to me for the reasons mentioned) but at the same time, I've gotten fairly strong already through the rowing and KB work I do. If I start deadlifts, I'll work with a trainer for proper form for at least a couple of sessions. I'm also worried I'll get injured and hurt my rowing training, which progressed well this year.
24s or 32s? 1H/2H?0 -
Stan - I wish I was there for the 135 / 140 swings I'm doing right now. I'm using an adjustable that is around 40 lbs. I do have the 24 kg at home and I usually do the last 20 or so with that.
I do some single handed and some both hands, honestly depending on how tired I am! The 2 hand helps when I'm exhausted. Depends on if I'm separating the row too. Today, for instance, the row took it all out of me (two very hard 15 minute intervals/3 minutes rest @ 1:57 pace, which for me is very hard). I'll do the swings this evening. My original plan was to get to the 200 3X a week (regardless of single or double) and then move to the 24 kg one and go back to around 150 then 3 X a week and build up back to 200.
I'm not sure I could even do 100 with a 32 kg one after doing a hard row. Perhaps if it was by itself but I'm not that strong. Endurance strength, yes, but that's a totally different thing. Whether it's rowing or lifting, it's all about peak power and how many reps you can do (or at least rowing is, there are guys fairly weak that have great rowing times). Rowing is weird in that most (old timers) didn't think lifting was as important as cardio. Some guys that have been breaking records on 500m/1000m rows have changed that opinion quite a bit. I'm thinking if I can just generate 5% more power, that would be fantastic. I'm regionally competitive now (for my age and it's a limited pool of people) but 5/10% more power and I'd be nationally very competitive.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 388 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 918 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions