Fatty liver
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a 10-25% difference? My md stated 1600 cals, but I have read other MD's recommendations that do go that low. I am not even arguing with youTavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
Actually mine did! When I started losing weight, my doctor, who was fairly young and into fitness, told a 400lb man to eat 1600 cals a day and exercise heavily! Horrid advice BTW! I also talked to another MD, not mine this time, I left his practice, that said she hands out 1600 cal a day diets to the obese all the time! WOW!
OP isn't 200lbs over weight so that is not a useful comparison.
Yes, I know, I was just showing that many MD's have no clue on good weight loss and sometimes give horrid advice.
Getting someone to drop weight quickly when they're 200lbs overweight seems like good advice. 1600 cals isn't loads but a 400lb person can sustain that deficit for a while. Plus, if they aren't weighing accurately they're probably eating more than that anyway.
Losing weight is a great idea, but at what level and rate is the question. Sure, they can maintain a deficit for a while when grossly obese, but what is the compliance rate? I also bring into account, that many MD's do not even go into quality of nutrients. When someone drops weight that quickly, we know that they lose lean mass like crazy! While losing the weight is all good and well, the loss of lean mass is hard to get back. I will even go into the biggest loser studies done by Kevin Hall in 2016. Of the 14 of 16 contestants that came in for testing, 12 of the 14 had regain most if not all their weight. Yes, I know that they were on TV, and that can be different than real life, but their diets were very similar. Most ate an average of 1200-1400 cals a day to lose weight and went through extensive exercise programs. Maybe if MD's took the time to understand that a slower approach can work just as well, if not better IMHO, people would have the time to learn how to weight, measure, and log accurately.
You're arguing with yourself at this point... You said you know of a person who was told to eat 1600, I said that's fine, you're now talking about biggest loser contestants eating 1200 cals...
A 10-25% difference? In reality I am not arguing with you that it works, I am just stating, maybe their advice is not the best. The advice for a 6'2" 400 lbs man is different than a 5'2" woman who is 300+ pounds. They might have her on 1200 cals a day. I am stating that the long term results are not the best. There are some studies that show that fast weight loss helps people continue, but from my research reading, results are mixed at best long term.I have also notice, that people who have gastric bypass surgery do better long term. some people would say that because the stomach is now smaller. From what I have read, they are given nutrition advice and many are not allowed to have the surgery until they have had mental health sessions. There is also growing evidence that hormones change as well as the BF set point, but that's another topic all together. They do lose weight at about the same rate as someone exercising and eating VLC I went back to the NIH Body Weight Planner to get an idea of what kind of calories I would have had to eaten to maintain my weight at 400 lbs at my activity level then. It was well over 4000 a day! I have noticed, that a few, I say, a few MD's are now using a multifaceted approach to weight loss. They involve dietitians, mental health, and people who have degrees in exercise science. As stated above, this is all just IMHO.7 -
pootlepootle1972 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
Actually mine did! When I started losing weight, my doctor, who was fairly young and into fitness, told a 400lb man to eat 1600 cals a day and exercise heavily! Horrid advice BTW! I also talked to another MD, not mine this time, I left his practice, that said she hands out 1600 cal a day diets to the obese all the time! WOW!
OP isn't 200lbs over weight so that is not a useful comparison.
Yes, I know, I was just showing that many MD's have no clue on good weight loss and sometimes give horrid advice.
Getting someone to drop weight quickly when they're 200lbs overweight seems like good advice. 1600 cals isn't loads but a 400lb person can sustain that deficit for a while. Plus, if they aren't weighing accurately they're probably eating more than that anyway.
Losing weight is a great idea, but at what level and rate is the question. Sure, they can maintain a deficit for a while when grossly obese, but what is the compliance rate? I also bring into account, that many MD's do not even go into quality of nutrients. When someone drops weight that quickly, we know that they lose lean mass like crazy! While losing the weight is all good and well, the loss of lean mass is hard to get back. I will even go into the biggest loser studies done by Kevin Hall in 2016. Of the 14 of 16 contestants that came in for testing, 12 of the 14 had regain most if not all their weight. Yes, I know that they were on TV, and that can be different than real life, but their diets were very similar. Most ate an average of 1200-1400 cals a day to lose weight and went through extensive exercise programs. Maybe if MD's took the time to understand that a slower approach can work just as well, if not better IMHO, people would have the time to learn how to weight, measure, and log accurately.
You're arguing with yourself at this point... You said you know of a person who was told to eat 1600, I said that's fine, you're now talking about biggest loser contestants eating 1200 cals...
And I'm failing to see what the biggest loser has to do with fatty liver?
Indeed2 -
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TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
He told me to diet. I went on a crash diet. Not good huh?2 -
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How high is it? Usually they look for any underlying medical issue. If you’re already at a healthy weight you can’t just decide yo lose fat from your liver. I’ve also been told that weight loss can contribute to fatty liver. Makes no Sense but that’s what they say.
It's 80, normal range is 40 to 50. I'm in a healthy limit already but still got the fat on my liver0 -
pootlepootle1972 wrote: »
No idea. I come in the normal range and work out so clueless0 -
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TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
Was just letting someone know, doctors do advise crash dieting. Then using a well known example of a study of crash dieting results. That's all.1 -
Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
He told me to diet. I went on a crash diet. Not good huh?
Not at all, no. You want to think a bit more about your health long term perhaps?5 -
I will add this about crash dieting as well. It can be super taxing on your liver. The body will Oxidize fat for fuel, all that fat has to go through the liver. Also, the body will use lean mass/ muscle for energy as well. Gluconeogenisis is done in the liver as well. This can be taxing. I hope you find what ails you! Best of luck2
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One thing I read is that too rapid of weight loss can also be an issue with fatty liver. I would make sure you are losing weight at a moderate weight, and not try to push too far, too fast.5
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pootlepootle1972 wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »pootlepootle1972 wrote: »
No idea. I come in the normal range and work out so clueless
What you need to ask your doctor is what happens if you lose this weight and it's the same....what then. After a 5kg at your weight you should be seeing some results...you need to chase for a specialist referal if they aren't reducing.
For now I've been told to reduce my weight and have been scheduled to meet him again. The doctor will decide if anythings changed and the course forward2 -
psychod787 wrote: »I will add this about crash dieting as well. It can be super taxing on your liver. The body will Oxidize fat for fuel, all that fat has to go through the liver. Also, the body will use lean mass/ muscle for energy as well. Gluconeogenisis is done in the liver as well. This can be taxing. I hope you find what ails you! Best of luck
Oh that makes sense. Thank you. I'll be more careful2 -
When your dr approves you for adding back small amounts of fats into your diet, choose extra virgin cold pressed olive oil . Your body needs some for making hormones, and antibodies.0
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I'm concerned, if 80 kg is 12 st 8 lb, you at 6'3", have to be in a good place weight wise, you are also more active than most. I think you need better advice from your medical professional or find a different one. Yours is probably a, non alcohol, related liver condition which is very different to the regular kind of fatty liver condition and needs treating with respect. You probably need referring to an in house dietitian.
I'm thinking 5 kg weight loss in three weeks is hard going for someone with little weight to loose as I think you have and it is something not to be continued. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is as you said, remove the "junk food". Now enter your statistics, including your sports regime, into MFP in the advised mode, see what it says you need to maintain. Then look up the meals and snacks you regularly used to eat and see how this stacks up in the different food groups. (You should be able to use dates pior to your initial joining here to hold this information.) With luck this should show you your best way out of this situation.
All the very best. You need to take care of yourself. You are the only one of you on MFP.0 -
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OP: Are you seeing a hepatologist, or at least a GI for this?
If you liver enzymes are elevated, then you should ask for a referral to a hepatologist.
I have an autoimmune liver condition, so, unfortunately, I am very familiar with liver diseases...more than I want to be.
You mentioned ALT was high. What about ALP and AST?
Definitely see a hepatologist. I usually check in with my hepatologist once every six months, and see my regular primary doctor in between. I can tell you from experience that primary care physicians don't always know the subtleties of liver diseases.11 -
While a different organ, my brother went through this with fatty deposits in his pancreas and ended up with severe pancreatitis. He had to eat a very low fat diet for months under supervision. He ate lots of fruit/veg/lean meats and reduced dairy. He also limited snacks like chips and replaced with edamame, potatoes, grape tomatoes.
After his body recovered he added those things back in moderation.0 -
I’m a type 2 diabetic. I eat a ketogenic diet for my blood sugar but it also has completely resolved my nafl non-alcoholic fatty liver. Took about 6 months.4
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Your doctor obviously knows you and your needs and I would always follow confirmed medical advice.
However I would re-confirm with my doctor my understanding of the crash diet part of their advice and the continued need for it after your initial loss.
The leaner you already are the more lean mass you lose with large deficits and the more likely it is that large deficits will result in AT.
Weight loss is the accumulation of true actual deficits over time.
The leaner you are the lower your CO. The harder you have dieted the lower your CO both temporarily and perhaps permanently absent a full regain. The less lean mass you have the lower your CO.
There exist three factors. CI which should not be reduced below 1500 Cal for males who follow MFP guidelines for safe(ish) weight loss, CO which is a function daily activity and deliberate exercise, and time.
In general I was unaware of the accute time constraints imposed by non alcoholic fatty liver disease, but I suppose that these things depend on comorbidities and individual and family history.
ETA: what the *kitten*? Looks like I missed half the discussion before I responded!
So.... Obviously... Diet to lose weight does not equal crash diet... So slow down! And try some strength training in there somewhere...3 -
Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Saifnasirpk wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Have you used MFP to set your goal calories and started tracking? I'd want to lose these last 5kgs in a slow and controlled fashion. Congrats on getting the first 6kgs off and cleaning up your diet.
I just started using MFP yesterday. I've been dieting 3 weeks now. What I did was cut in between snacks. Porridge for breakfast, a light lunch and a bowl of soup for dinner. You could say I was just having 2 meals a day. And I continued my exercises.
That doesn't sound like enough calories to be sustainable
Yes, I couldn't afford to lose weight slowly and gradually. I had to be more extreme because of the reason why I had to lose it. Basically I have to get low and check if my medical problem still persists.
Your doctor told you to crash diet to lose the weight quickly?
He told me to diet. I went on a crash diet. Not good huh?
No. This could aggravate your condition. I have an appointment with my hepatogist on 3/7. I'll ask him his thoughts on this. He is one of the head transplant surgeons at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, and is well respected in these parts.2 -
Did they diagnose with an MRI?0
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StevefromMichigan wrote: »Did they diagnose with an MRI?
No, just an ultrasound. That's how he spotted the fatty liver0 -
Saifnasirpk wrote: »StevefromMichigan wrote: »Did they diagnose with an MRI?
No, just an ultrasound. That's how he spotted the fatty liver
Ok. My thoughts are that you are already at/near an ideal body weight for a man your size. Usually, it would be recommended to diet when the patient is obese, which you do not appear to be. Considering where you are at in terms of weight now, you're probably not going to be able to lose too much more.
An ultrasound can pick up some things, but an MRI will show much more. Usually, if they find something on the ultrasound, an MRI is often recommended as the next step.
I recommend that you request to see a hepatologist. I believe the normal range for ALT is <40. You should make sure nothing else is going on here. It may just be fatty liver, but if it's something else, early treatment can be critical.6 -
I have the same thing but my doctor didn't tell me I had to lose weight quickly, that's just you thinking that. I've lost 21 pounds but in 4 months. Keep it sustainable. Otherwise, the weight will just come back on.5
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Iwantahealthierme30 wrote: »I have the same thing but my doctor didn't tell me I had to lose weight quickly, that's just you thinking that. I've lost 21 pounds but in 4 months. Keep it sustainable. Otherwise, the weight will just come back on.
So after losing the weight did the fatty liver go away or get reduced. ALT levels change?0 -
That level of transaminase elevation is extremely mild. If other liver enzymes and bilirubin are normal, I’d expect a hepatologist to not be concerned and repeat the labs. Are you on any meds? Many go through the liver and can cause a mild elevation in liver enzymes that has no consequences. I know someone who had transaminase levels above 1000 (same normal reference range) from a Med and it all normalized eventually.2
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orangegato wrote: »That level of transaminase elevation is extremely mild. If other liver enzymes and bilirubin are normal, I’d expect a hepatologist to not be concerned and repeat the labs. Are you on any meds? Many go through the liver and can cause a mild elevation in liver enzymes that has no consequences. I know someone who had transaminase levels above 1000 (same normal reference range) from a Med and it all normalized eventually.
No medication. Everything Normal. Just raised ALT and fatty liver0
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