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Fast Food Addiction - Can Anyone Else Relate?
Replies
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The psychology behind calling it an "addiction" is actually quite simple. It removes any personal responsibility from the situation and automatically confers powerless "victim" status instead. It's much easier to justify it that way rather than having to face the fact that you actually have a choice in the matter.
Can I say thank you for expressing what I wanted to but never coherently said to post? I absolutely believe addiction exists (I mean, yeah, it's well documented and I know it myself) but the whole "sugar/specific addiction" thing has always struck me as a, "yeup, can't do anything about it, I'm addicted and all" cop out. Which is sad, because if you just accept that it's basically surrendering your own free will.
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Fizzypopization wrote: »
There is no physical hooks in alcohol to make it addictive. There is no hooks in most opioids either. If you want to say only physical hooks count then very few things could truly even count unless we are going to count the change in brain chemistry in which case literally anything could cause a flood of those hormones even fetishes. Seriously lay people with no science degree you don't know what you are talking about.paperpudding wrote: »I agree there are ED's and some people have difficulty restricting foods and there are individual trigger foods for some people and there are behavioural issues - that doesnt make there be an addiction though.
i actually think it is quite trivialising to real physical addictions like opiates,alcohol, nicotine to say this
and yes there is an organisation called Over eaters Anonymous - but I notice they do not refer to food addiction either
In their own words "Overeaters Anonymous (OA) is a fellowship of individuals who, through shared experience, strength and hope, are recovering from compulsive overeating. We welcome everyone who wants to stop eating compulsively. .......
Our primary purpose is to abstain from compulsive overeating and to carry the message of recovery to those who still suffer.
OA caters for all who have a problem with their eating, such as compulsive overeaters, anorexics and bulimics."
Some things are physically addictive - nicotine, opiates, codeine, alcohol
Other like Overeaters anonymous, Gamblers anonymous deal with behavioural disorders, not physical addictions - as I pointed out Overeaters anonymous does not describe over eating as an addiction
I do actually work in a field that includes opiate substitute program (methadone) btw.
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candylilacs wrote: »It's not the film, man.
https://mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/in-depth/triglycerides/art-20048186?pg=2
Triglycerides are a type of fat (lipid) found in your blood. When you eat, your body converts any calories it doesn't need to use right away into triglycerides. The triglycerides are stored in your fat cells. Later, hormones release triglycerides for energy between meals. If you regularly eat more calories than you burn, particularly "easy" calories like carbohydrates and fats, you may have high triglycerides (hypertriglyceridemia).
You may. If only there were a test...
More to the point: regularly eat more calories than you burn=gain weight.
More "easy" calories like carbs and fats (note that this is silly since carbs is a huge category, as are fats), but bigger point is this does NOT single out sugar.
From this, which IMO would be better summarized as "don't become overweight, and don't eat a poor overall diet centered on sat fat and easy to digest/refined carbs" you get "sugar is the problem."
Hmm, that's certainly a distorted interpretation.
Also, NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread.
Should someone base their diet on the types of choices the majority of people order from fast food (meals made up of, say, a burger and fries)? IMO, no -- cals are too high, protein too low, percentage of sat fat and refined carbs (mostly not sugar itself, and the problem with fries is the calories and added fat, not the carby potatoes), and most significantly, inadequate vegetables. Also crazy high sodium in most cases.
Are any of these problems if you have fast food occasionally or even more regularly but make lower cal choices and have a good many veg and adequate protein in the rest of the day? No.
Does any of this have anything to do with sugar? Again, no.7 -
positivepowers wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »Katherinelittle24 wrote: »Thank you for commenting but please don't tell me that I'm not addicted. Fast food can be addictive. I did research on it, and a lot of research says it is. Some people can go and get fast food, and be fine like my boyfriend can. But other people, like me for instance, thinks about it constantly. Even the next day, I just ate a very nutritious breakfast full of protein but I am still craving that hamburger. So yes, for me it is an addiction. One that has take me months to break, and it's definitely a work of progress.
Yeah it is. If I stop eating fast food I get headaches, fuzzy thinking, lethargy, irritability and cravings that keep me up and wake me up at night. I feel just like I did when I quit smoking (and nobody argues that's addictive, right?) I don't care what anyone says, I know what I feel and some peer-reviewed scientific studies back me on this (I've posted them before.) After a few weeks of abstinence, if I go back to eating fast food (because mmm mmm Taco Bell!) The cycle starts all over. Before I am accused of this, I do not use this as an excuse, I use it as another tool to fight the addiction.
OP: I'm trying to stay away from the fast food, it's the only way I know to take and keep control. Stay strong!!
OK, I've stayed out of this whole addiction debate, but this comment got to me... specifically, which fast food is causing this reaction? Pizza? Burgers? Fries? Tacos? Milkshakes? Chicken fingers? And does eating a french fry clear your thinking, because if it does, I'm headed to McDonalds
I know you're being sarcastic but I'm going to answer this as if the question was serious: No, eating a french fry does not exactly clear my thinking, and I haven't been able to stop at one fry since I was 5 (not an excuse. We all have something that we fight; this is mine) but if I eat the fries I stop obsessing over them for a while and I can think about something else. Although I am sated for a while, eating the fries just brings on a cycle of: Obsessing over __________ fast food or junk food; eating the food; obsessing over another fast/junk food. Every time I "quit" the fast/junk food I act exactly the way I did when I quit smoking. The only difference is that I've never wanted to start smoking again. I also tend to "phase out" when eating fast/junk food, I don't realize how much I've eaten until it's gone. I once ate an entire 9" chocolate cake and I only remember "tasting" the frosting at the beginning. And throwing away the empty box in shame so my family wouldn't know.
There are probably no common ingredients in french friesn and a chocolate cake (which for many could be homemade, btw, I don't know why so many people assume "junk food" is always packaged, but that's a digression).
I'm not saying that you don't have the reaction you describe when eating them -- I find I tend to crave the foods I eat, so if I mostly (not 100%) eat nutrient-dense foods I will mostly crave the kinds of things I was planning to have anyway.
What I am saying is that this is NOT evidence of addiction to a specific substance, as was claimed. It's support for the idea that some (for a variety of reasons, often a pattern of using food for self comfort, maybe something physical, probably related to feeling bad about eating habits and thinking you should restrict or not eat certain things) will find it really hard to control foods they find hyperpalatable.
IMO, you can probably change, to some degree, what foods you really enjoy or crave (or consider hyperpalatable -- I honestly don't get why people even think fast food is so tasty vs. other options, other options that might be even more caloric in some cases, granted -- and I admit I'm being a bit of a food snob here, it's just my response to some of the things people claim are magically and unfairly tasty is that they aren't even all that tasty vs., say, better restaurants or homemade). You can also perhaps find a way to moderate -- for example, if you know you can have fries every week, it may well be easier not to think of them at other times. Or not, people find what works for them. Point is just this does not support the idea that "fast food" as a category is an addictive substance. It is made up of a huge variety of ingredients that are also in non fast food foods (see, eg, homemade burger and roasted potatoes with some salt and olive oil). I don't think any fast food measures up to a well roasted chicken with perfectly roasted potatoes (in some of the chicken fat) and brussels sprouts. But many of the reasons that's so tasty (mix of fat, protein, carbs and salt, for example), are going to overlap why fast food is tasty for many.7 -
yasinbagci73 wrote: »Fast food can be a very overpowering addiction.... im pretty certain it is the type of carbs in them that make them so addictive...
Main carbs in a burger and fries: potatoes.
Second main carb: bread.
Homemade burger plus roasted potatoes and a salad -- also gets most of its carbs from potatoes and bread (and may well have as many carbs).
Main difference between my homemade burger and a fast food meal:
Fast food burger has more fat than one I'd cook at home (mainly because I use leaner ground beef, not everyone does), and don't add oil when cooking (I suspect McD does but have not checked).
Also, even as someone who doesn't understand the love for fast food, on the rare times I get it (road trip!) I do get fries. If I made a burger at home (which I did quite a bit when losing), I'd not actually choose to have a bun AND additional starchy carbs most of the time (on rare occasion I would have roasted potatoes or maybe baked beans). I'd also have vegetables. Of course, at a fast food place nothing is stopping you from getting a burger and salad and not having fries. Everyone knows fries are a treat food you are getting because they taste good, despite being high cal.5 -
yasinbagci73 wrote: »I was addicted and most likely would relapse also if i gave myself the tiniest of chances.
Fast food can be a very overpowering addiction.... im pretty certain it is the type of carbs in them that make them so addictive... the dense caloric meal loaded with highly processed ingredients....
I remember getting a feeling of a rush as soon as you eat it... and then follows the psychological (guilt)... followed by the almost immediate bloat .... and the toxicity level starts to spike... liver going into hyperdrive ...
Unless you break this circuit ...it becomes a vicous cycle.
How are the carbs in fast food different than the carbs in the same food items made at home?
In the last two weeks I’ve eaten at Panera twice: Chipotle chicken salad and creamy tomato soup and then an egg white spinach avocado breakfast sandwich, and then on a recent road trip a McDouble, splitting a small fry with my husband. No rush, no guilt, no bloat, and certainly no signs of toxicity. Also what is the common ingredient in any of these things which would be addictive?10 -
The psychology behind calling it an "addiction" is actually quite simple. It removes any personal responsibility from the situation and automatically confers powerless "victim" status instead. It's much easier to justify it that way rather than having to face the fact that you actually have a choice in the matter.
I really, really love a huge, juicy burger (or two) and a mountain of french fries or onion rings. Sometimes I actually have cravings for them. Same with tacos - I can easily down them a dozen at a time without blinking an eye. I also understand that eating that way all the time is not healthy and will lead to weight gain. Therefore, I make the conscious decision to limit such indulgences rather than wallow in victimhood and pretend I have no choice.
Including this thread, there are three “addiction” topics on the front page of recent posts right now: Fast Food, Soda, and Desserts
I agree, I think people want to blame something or someone else - so it’s easy to talk about the evil sugar or the evil food manufacturers who have created these hyperpalatable foods which we are all incapable of falling victim to. When people point out that it is possible to moderate these kinds of foods and be successful, then everyone says “well SOME people get addicted”. When people point out that the same ingredients or combinations of ingredients exist in home prepared foods - well I’ve yet to see a single response to these points. I suspect we won’t.
Calling everything an addiction in order to abscond personal responsibility is offensive to those struggling with legitimate addiction and recovery, and it also diminishes the hard work of people who have struggled with cravings and trigger foods and learned to moderate and be successful.20 -
WinoGelato wrote: »yasinbagci73 wrote: »I was addicted and most likely would relapse also if i gave myself the tiniest of chances.
Fast food can be a very overpowering addiction.... im pretty certain it is the type of carbs in them that make them so addictive... the dense caloric meal loaded with highly processed ingredients....
I remember getting a feeling of a rush as soon as you eat it... and then follows the psychological (guilt)... followed by the almost immediate bloat .... and the toxicity level starts to spike... liver going into hyperdrive ...
Unless you break this circuit ...it becomes a vicous cycle.
How are the carbs in fast food different than the carbs in the same food items made at home?
In the last two weeks I’ve eaten at Panera twice: Chipotle chicken salad and creamy tomato soup and then an egg white spinach avocado breakfast sandwich, and then on a recent road trip a McDouble, splitting a small fry with my husband. No rush, no guilt, no bloat, and certainly no signs of toxicity. Also what is the common ingredient in any of these things which would be addictive?
When I make french fries at home using basic ingredients (potato, oil, salt), I get the exact same feelings I do when I eat "fast food" fries or fries made from scratch in a restaurant. I feel pleasure while eating them, I want to eat more because they taste good (note: these are the exact same feelings I feel when eating other favorite foods, whether they're from a fast food place or another source). You'd think if fast food made a difference there would be some sort of difference in how I felt, but I honestly don't think there is.
I've notice the same thing with other people. People who enjoy burgers tend to enjoy different types of burgers, not just fast food ones. If fast food truly was addictive, wouldn't we see people abandon "slower" forms of typical fast food items in favor of the more addictive versions?11 -
candylilacs wrote: »Sugar is the enemy -- 84.1 million adults have prediabetes. https://cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/diabetes.html
84 million adults overeat is more like it.11 -
candylilacs wrote: »Sugar is the enemy -- 84.1 million adults have prediabetes. https://cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/diabetes.html
News flash - sugar intake does not cause diabetes.
Obesity, however, is strongly linked to it.11 -
candylilacs wrote: »Sugar is the enemy -- 84.1 million adults have prediabetes. https://cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/diabetes.html
News flash - sugar intake does not cause diabetes.
Obesity, however, is strongly linked to it.
As is sugar intake. 25 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »candylilacs wrote: »Sugar is the enemy -- 84.1 million adults have prediabetes. https://cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/diabetes.html
News flash - sugar intake does not cause diabetes.
Obesity, however, is strongly linked to it.
As is sugar intake.
This is from the link you put up and I gotta ask why doesn't it say anything at all about sugar intake as part of the preventing program, wouldn't it be a big part of it if sugar intake caused diabetes, why is it not worth even being mentioned. Seriously not trying to be a jerk but just logically thinking wouldn't it have at least been mentioned here even once?
Curriculum for CDC-Recognized Diabetes Prevention Lifestyle Change Programs
Topics Covered in First 6 Months
Welcome to the Program
Be a Fat and Calorie Detective
Three Ways to Eat Less Fat and Fewer Calories
Healthy Eating
Move Those Muscles
Being Active - A way of Life
Tip the Calorie Balance
Take Charge of What's Around You
Problem Solving
Four Keys to Healthy Eating Out
Talk Back to Negative Thoughts
The Slippery Slope of Lifestyle Change
Jump Start Your Activity Plan
Make Social Cues Work for You
You Can Manage Stress
Ways to Stay Motivated
Topics Covered in Second 6 Months
Fats - Saturated, Unsaturated, and Trans Fat
Food Preparation and Recipe Modification
Healthy Eating - Taking it One Meal at a Time
Healthy Eating with Variety and Balance
More Volume, Fewer Calories
Staying on Top of Physical Activity
Stepping up to Physical Activity
Balance Your Thoughts for Long-Term Maintenance
Handling Holidays, Vacations, and Special Events
Preventing Relapse
Stress and Time Management
Heart Health
A Closer Look at Type 2 Diabetes
Looking Back and Looking Forward13 -
paperpudding wrote: »i actually think it is quite trivialising to real physical addictions like opiates,alcohol, nicotine to say this
It's like Norco and Vicodin. I've taken it and I feel no addiction to opiates.
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I'm confused now. What's like Vicodin, a McD's french fry? Seriously?7
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Is the argument now that fast food/sugar addiction is real and opiate addiction isn't? I'm completely confused.12
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It boils down to habit. OP has gotten into the habit of eating fast food (as a lot of people who "think" they are addicted do) and just equates it to addiction. When I was in college about 10 years ago, I stopped at Burger King every weekday on my way home from school. That is what I ate because I was in school all day every day and then had to study for hours in the evening. It was an extremely hard habit to break, but I broke it. You just need to change your routine so you aren't going to get fast food every day. It is not an addiction. I didn't have withdrawals when I stopped. Mentally I had the urge to get in the car and drive 15 miles to the nearest Burger King every day, but I made a conscious effort to not go, and made sure I had food at home to eat.14
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I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).3
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I don't know if there is such a thing as a fast food addiction. But I will have to say that as I was reading all these comments, and I'm not making light of this subject, but my mouth started to water. No joke.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.9 -
I don't know if there is such a thing as a fast food addiction. But I will have to say that as I was reading all these comments, and I'm not making light of this subject, but my mouth started to water. No joke.
My mouth watered the other day when I was reading an article about traditional Japanese ramen. I think that speaks more to the power of the human imagination and our love for foods we perceive as delicious/potentially delicious, not an indication of addiction (I've never even had traditional ramen so it's impossible for me to be addicted to it . . yet!).6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't know if there is such a thing as a fast food addiction. But I will have to say that as I was reading all these comments, and I'm not making light of this subject, but my mouth started to water. No joke.
My mouth watered the other day when I was reading an article about traditional Japanese ramen. I think that speaks more to the power of the human imagination and our love for foods we perceive as delicious/potentially delicious, not an indication of addiction (I've never even had traditional ramen so it's impossible for me to be addicted to it . . yet!).
Someone can say the words Tacos and Margaritas and I will literally have drool in the corners of my mouth! haha6 -
I think tbe OP believes they got fat eating fast food 4 days a week instead of too many calories. This is a mistake some people make sometimes that makes it difficult to reach their goal and maintain. I would encourage the OP to look more at calories and not type of food so much.
I think the OP have gone on a very restrictive diet plan and like many who do restrictive diet plans if they eat off plan they want more of the forbidden food Very restrictive diet plans are often unsustainable long term. Not addiction but unsustainable lifestyle. I don't see anything from the OP the suggests a real addiction.
Having trouble moderating some foods is a problem many share. It may be a behavior/emotional issue not xyz food has something in it that I have to have. Strategizes for dealing with problem foods include abstaining, having healthier/lower calorie versions, learning to have smaller portions. If there is an issue with an eating disorder or emotional eating getting some professional help may be in order.8 -
candylilacs wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »i actually think it is quite trivialising to real physical addictions like opiates,alcohol, nicotine to say this
It's like Norco and Vicodin. I've taken it and I feel no addiction to opiates.
Most people don't but it only takes a few days to get physically dependent on it. Restriction of fast food and sugar is way way way way more pleasant than withdrawl from opiates even after only being on them a few months when you are not an addict. I've done both and never ever want to experience dilaudid withdrawl ever again and i wasn't addicted. There is no comparison between fast food or sugar and opiates.11 -
So is gambling addiction just a habit since there isn't physical withdrawal?4
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fromnebraska wrote: »So is gambling addiction just a habit since there isn't physical withdrawal?
I am sure there are psychological withdrawl symptoms (which can become physical) with stopping gambling for addicts.
The physical withdrawl I was describing wasn't about addiction though. I was just pointing out how crazy it is to compare sugar and fast food to opioids. If you are on round the clock dosing for more than a few days you will experience withdrawl to various degrees (ranging from a headache and perhaps flu like symptoms if you are on them a few days to full out you want to die with convulsions, sweating, electric zaps, shaking, pain amplified by 1000, etc). If you stop eating fast food and or sugar, even if you have been eating it your whole life, you will not experience anything at all like that. My post wasn't even about addiction because what I was describing isn't addiction but rather depence.3 -
fromnebraska wrote: »So is gambling addiction just a habit since there isn't physical withdrawal?
A gambling addiction is a behavioral addiction. It isn't specific. An addict will play blackjack, sit at a slot machine, bet their nephew about a college football game, any opportunity to gamble that presents itself. They will steal quarters from a child's piggy bank to buy a lottery ticket. Pawn their wedding ring to play the ponies.
That's different than saying I'm addicted to food from a particular type of restaurant. There's nothing specific to ALL fast food, but different from all other foods. There's not one particular ingredient you can say you are addicted to in fast food that isn't in lots of other foods and causes physical withdrawal, so it's not a physical addiction. And it's not a unique and unnecessary behavior (you have to eat, and you are fine eating other things) that you are willing to destroy your life to continue, so it's not a behavioral addiction. It's a bad habit, and one that someone who frames it as that can take responsibility for and change.8 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.
I vote for a stick of dynamite.
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fromnebraska wrote: »So is gambling addiction just a habit since there isn't physical withdrawal?fromnebraska wrote: »So is gambling addiction just a habit since there isn't physical withdrawal?
No, not just a habit.
I would say it is a behavioural disorder - like eating disorders and other destructive pyschological disorders like cutting oneself.
That isnt to say these aren't real - they certainly are - but not physical addiction.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.
Yes -- I think it's a huge shame, because even though with OP I think a lot of it was the restrictive diet, I do think that there could have been a good conversation about the pull of habit, how to deal with those kinds of urgings and cravings, so on, and various ways to handle the temptation of palatable foods.
OP's comment made me immediately suspect it was not just about fast food, which is why I asked if she felt like she could have a homemade burger, and of course she explained she was on a diet where that was not possible. To then try to make this -- as some have -- about some magical properties of fast food seems really off base.
OP may be dealing with more than most of us (I don't think someone who is 400 lb, as OP was when she started, is dealing with precisely the same things as someone who needs to lose, I dunno, 20, even if the 20 lb overweight person thinks that her love for fries is JUST EXACTLY LIKE addiction), but despite her word choice I doubt it's limited to fast food but that it could be something similar to an addiction (or maybe compulsive overeating is a better term), and her chosen way of dealing with it may be working because it eliminates temptation for a while --
kind of like that potatoes only guy -- but that eventually she will need to figure out how to deal with tempting food.
The "it's a drug, it's all about the specific foods, just cut it out" people don't seem to be helpful.
Also, the argument that fast food is like opiates (which IMO is absurd) is rather off topic, the question was how to deal with cravings from tempting food, basically.
I find it frustrating that this thread went so off topic as to end up in Debate, and I blame those who have some axe to grind and want to insist that liking food is exactly like being a drug addict. While, yes, some others took issue with OP's use of the term addiction, it was in a context of giving helpful advice and saying how they handled it. I note that when people popped in to say "yes, it is too an addiction," not only did their supposed cites not match the claims, but they were focused on creating an argument and did not give helpful advice to OP. I think that's really a shame.6 -
Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them. These billion dollar companies are paying millions to develop foods that are "addicting" as in foods specifically designed to make you want more. Even to the point of them hiring psychologist's. I will admit a lot of this has to do with will power however by definition it could be considered an addiction.
@OP Just brush it off and keep moving. To keep yourself from feeling restricted you could try eating fast food here and there. Now if you can't control yourself from doing it every day or going over on your calories... Then I would say don't do it. There was a documentary called "fathead" where the guy ate nothing but fast food. Lost weight and actually got healthier by blood work results. His doctors actually being astonished.20
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