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Fast Food Addiction - Can Anyone Else Relate?
Replies
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broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them.
Your brain shows the same reaction to petting puppies.10 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.
Yes -- I think it's a huge shame, because even though with OP I think a lot of it was the restrictive diet, I do think that there could have been a good conversation about the pull of habit, how to deal with those kinds of urgings and cravings, so on, and various ways to handle the temptation of palatable foods.
OP's comment made me immediately suspect it was not just about fast food, which is why I asked if she felt like she could have a homemade burger, and of course she explained she was on a diet where that was not possible. To then try to make this -- as some have -- about some magical properties of fast food seems really off base.
OP may be dealing with more than most of us (I don't think someone who is 400 lb, as OP was when she started, is dealing with precisely the same things as someone who needs to lose, I dunno, 20, even if the 20 lb overweight person thinks that her love for fries is JUST EXACTLY LIKE addiction), but despite her word choice I doubt it's limited to fast food but that it could be something similar to an addiction (or maybe compulsive overeating is a better term), and her chosen way of dealing with it may be working because it eliminates temptation for a while --
kind of like that potatoes only guy -- but that eventually she will need to figure out how to deal with tempting food.
The "it's a drug, it's all about the specific foods, just cut it out" people don't seem to be helpful.
Also, the argument that fast food is like opiates (which IMO is absurd) is rather off topic, the question was how to deal with cravings from tempting food, basically.
I find it frustrating that this thread went so off topic as to end up in Debate, and I blame those who have some axe to grind and want to insist that liking food is exactly like being a drug addict. While, yes, some others took issue with OP's use of the term addiction, it was in a context of giving helpful advice and saying how they handled it. I note that when people popped in to say "yes, it is too an addiction," not only did their supposed cites not match the claims, but they were focused on creating an argument and did not give helpful advice to OP. I think that's really a shame.
I respectfully disagree with the comment that cutting out the foods that we have a tendency to vastly overeat is bad advice. For me at least, it seemed to be the easier approach. Having moderate amounts was just too difficult. It's STILL difficult all these years later. Certainly much more comfortable to have close to none. Although admittedly, absolutely none for anything other than a fairly short period of time, is problematic too.
I had a friend who had avoided sweet treats for 3 years straight and became very distraught one day when her ex-husband tried to shove a chocolate into her mouth. She felt strongly that having that one chocolate had the potential to undo all her hard work. She really felt like an addict. I felt for her.
Sometimes I wondered if she should try to consume teeny tiny portions to reduce her fear, similar (in some ways) to the way they try to expose people with peanut allergies to peanuts. Exposure therapy maybe, where the person is exposed to their trigger food in a controlled situation where there is little or no danger that they will overeat.2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them.
Your brain shows the same reaction to petting puppies.
Does it actually? Looked it up and couldn't find anything. Actually am curious, enjoy reading studies on the brain.
The point of me saying that wasn't saying those reactions are what make an addiction. I edited my post stating it does have a lot to do with will power but to say something isn't addictive just cause it doesn't have physical dependency or physical withdrawals isn't true. By definition of addiction, you could be addicted to anything(even petting puppies). It's also the reason I used meth as an example cause it isn't physically addicting but is one of the most addictive substances out there.2 -
I eat fast food almost every day for lunch. Chick fil a is my weakness. I'm working on meal prepping but it's a challenge because I can't seem to cook a good chicken recipe. I'm trying to maintain my weight but cut fat and build muscle. Anyone with advice feel free to let me know.0
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Forgive me for not reading this all the way through, but as a veteran of the forums, there's little to be said on these sorts of thread that I haven't seen before
I'd still like to share some thoughts.
I have difficulty moderating some hyperpalatable foods and find I cannot stop myself once I start. I find that having those foods around me sets up a situation where those foods "call" to me from the pantry. I usually find this happening when I've been at aggressive deficit for a while and am feeling deprived. However, I don't find calling what's happening with me an addiction in any way helpful.
Some background. I have struggled all my life with my weight. I will be 56 this year. I am in my 2nd year of maintaining a new normal of a much lower weight than my all time high of 210 pounds. I am trying to take off some vanity weight at the moment, but I'm a normal weight and in the middle of the BMI range.
At one point in time, I did consider myself to be addicted to sugar and carbs and gave them up. For ten years. I didn't cheat during that time, but found that it wasn't a sustainable way of eating for me and I never lost weight beyond a certain point eating that way. I was still overweight.
I also never learned anything by doing that.
When I incorporated carbs back into my life in the form of grains (the thing that got me was in introduction of gluten free oats to the market) and tubers, I hadn't learned anything about portions or calories or energy balance.
Over the years, I gradually started to dislike meat more and more and finally gave it up totally and became a vegetarian. Following the advice to eat a more "healthy" diet, I ate a pretty much whole foods vegetarian diet. I really didn't eat a lot of sweets except for those I made myself, which were mostly made sweet with things like fruit and fruit purees.
I still had not a single clue about calories. I ballooned to 210 pounds.
Enter MFP. Over my time here, I have learned a lot. And when I first started here, I read and read and read and did a lot of soul searching to get to the bottom of the issues I had with food, why I was fat in the first place. The issues were complex and many layered, but key to losing weight and learning to maintain it has been accepting that *I* am ultimately responsible for my own control with food or lack of it.
Food might be hyperpalatable and delicious to me, but accepting that certain foods and I don't play well and that it's my fault and not the food's fault has been key. The reason for that? Admitting that has allowed me to utilize strategies to avoid issues with those foods and not feel guilt with them. It's also enabled me to have some of those foods in a controlled way by limiting my access to them to controlled times.
I feel this approach puts me in control of my relationship to these foods rather than giving them control over me. Might it be an illusory mind game on my part? Perhaps. But it's working.24 -
broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them.
Your brain shows the same reaction to petting puppies.
Does it actually? Looked it up and couldn't find anything. Actually am curious, enjoy reading studies on the brain.
The point of me saying that wasn't saying those reactions are what make an addiction. I edited my post stating it does have a lot to do with will power but to say something isn't addictive just cause it doesn't have physical dependency or physical withdrawals isn't true. By definition of addiction, you could be addicted to anything(even petting puppies). It's also the reason I used meth as an example cause it isn't physically addicting but is one of the most addictive substances out there.
It's been mentioned on these forums in other threads. Here are a few sources:
https://www.smokymountainnews.com/news/item/19278-sponsored-is-sugar-addictive
https://sanefood.com/sugar-white-powder/
http://inglesinfoaisle.com/would-you-rob-a-bank-to-buy-a-bag-of-candy/
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broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them.
Your brain shows the same reaction to petting puppies.
Does it actually? Looked it up and couldn't find anything. Actually am curious, enjoy reading studies on the brain.
The point of me saying that wasn't saying those reactions are what make an addiction. I edited my post stating it does have a lot to do with will power but to say something isn't addictive just cause it doesn't have physical dependency or physical withdrawals isn't true. By definition of addiction, you could be addicted to anything(even petting puppies). It's also the reason I used meth as an example cause it isn't physically addicting but is one of the most addictive substances out there.
Pretty much anything pleasurable results in the same dopamine response...7 -
goldthistime wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.
Yes -- I think it's a huge shame, because even though with OP I think a lot of it was the restrictive diet, I do think that there could have been a good conversation about the pull of habit, how to deal with those kinds of urgings and cravings, so on, and various ways to handle the temptation of palatable foods.
OP's comment made me immediately suspect it was not just about fast food, which is why I asked if she felt like she could have a homemade burger, and of course she explained she was on a diet where that was not possible. To then try to make this -- as some have -- about some magical properties of fast food seems really off base.
OP may be dealing with more than most of us (I don't think someone who is 400 lb, as OP was when she started, is dealing with precisely the same things as someone who needs to lose, I dunno, 20, even if the 20 lb overweight person thinks that her love for fries is JUST EXACTLY LIKE addiction), but despite her word choice I doubt it's limited to fast food but that it could be something similar to an addiction (or maybe compulsive overeating is a better term), and her chosen way of dealing with it may be working because it eliminates temptation for a while --
kind of like that potatoes only guy -- but that eventually she will need to figure out how to deal with tempting food.
The "it's a drug, it's all about the specific foods, just cut it out" people don't seem to be helpful.
Also, the argument that fast food is like opiates (which IMO is absurd) is rather off topic, the question was how to deal with cravings from tempting food, basically.
I find it frustrating that this thread went so off topic as to end up in Debate, and I blame those who have some axe to grind and want to insist that liking food is exactly like being a drug addict. While, yes, some others took issue with OP's use of the term addiction, it was in a context of giving helpful advice and saying how they handled it. I note that when people popped in to say "yes, it is too an addiction," not only did their supposed cites not match the claims, but they were focused on creating an argument and did not give helpful advice to OP. I think that's really a shame.
I respectfully disagree with the comment that cutting out the foods that we have a tendency to vastly overeat is bad advice.
But that's not actually what I said, is it?
I think avoiding trigger foods CAN be decent advice given more information and a context.
What I think is bad advice is assuming the issue is an "addiction" to "fast food" and then recommending that "fast food" be treated as if it were alcohol for an alcoholic.
I especially think that's bad advice when we know OP has some sort of issues with food and has been on a very restrictive diet cutting out not just fast food, but all kinds of delicious (and healthy) foods, such as a homemade burger, or probably even roasted chicken with brussels, potatoes, and a little olive oil and salt.
The potato diet approach works only for a while, but most do better figuring out how to normalize their relationship with foods so they can eat things they enjoy without obsessing about them.
Not saying that it doesn't make sense for some to, say, avoid having sweets at home or cut out fast food for a while while trying to develop better habits and a broader palate or what not. There are many option, but when you jump to "treat fast food as if you were an alcoholic and it were alcohol" then there's no room to discuss the specifics or that different approaches work for different people.Having moderate amounts was just too difficult.
I used to have some things that I had no interest in moderating. Indian food was one, some kinds of sweets (pie) is another. What I do is have Indian food about once a month and eat whatever I want, usually on a good workout day. (Last time I got it I found myself naturally moderating more, which was interesting, although I'm fine with having a splurge day too.)
Re pie, I find it easier to just have it on holidays, when I want to bake and have others to share it. If I made it at other times it would be hard not to overeat.
Similarly, I will rarely have a really good restaurant dessert if the restaurant has interesting worth-it (or probably worth-it) desserts. When I do, I don't try to eat only 200 cal worth; I eat as much as I want, even if it's 800 cal (or whatever).
But I do go through periods where I rarely have sweets, since it's also easier for me if I'm in an emotional eating kind of phase not to have it. But I would never say they are something I've cut out, since if I decide to have them I can, without it being a failure or something that means I've ruined everything or whatever.I had a friend who had avoided sweet treats for 3 years straight and became very distraught one day when her ex-husband tried to shove a chocolate into her mouth. She felt strongly that having that one chocolate had the potential to undo all her hard work. She really felt like an addict. I felt for her.
Obviously he was a jerk, but I do feel like that's one reason why treating like and calling it an addiction can be very counter-productive. I think it creates the reaction where if you do have a little you can't control it, both because you've told yourself you cannot control it for so long you have created a situation where you maybe can't (self fulfilling prophecy) and because if you think this is your only chance EVER to have it and things are already ruined, of course people binge.
That's one reason why I've really consciously tried to focus on NOT making any foods a forbidden fruit.8 -
broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »meth as an example cause it isn't physically addicting but is one of the most addictive substances out there.
I believe meth is physically addictive, although not as much as some other drugs.
I don't think something needs to be physically addictive to be addictive (I think fast food is not, for other reasons), but I think you are wrong about meth.5 -
positivepowers wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »Katherinelittle24 wrote: »Thank you for commenting but please don't tell me that I'm not addicted. Fast food can be addictive. I did research on it, and a lot of research says it is. Some people can go and get fast food, and be fine like my boyfriend can. But other people, like me for instance, thinks about it constantly. Even the next day, I just ate a very nutritious breakfast full of protein but I am still craving that hamburger. So yes, for me it is an addiction. One that has take me months to break, and it's definitely a work of progress.
Yeah it is. If I stop eating fast food I get headaches, fuzzy thinking, lethargy, irritability and cravings that keep me up and wake me up at night. I feel just like I did when I quit smoking (and nobody argues that's addictive, right?) I don't care what anyone says, I know what I feel and some peer-reviewed scientific studies back me on this (I've posted them before.) After a few weeks of abstinence, if I go back to eating fast food (because mmm mmm Taco Bell!) The cycle starts all over. Before I am accused of this, I do not use this as an excuse, I use it as another tool to fight the addiction.
OP: I'm trying to stay away from the fast food, it's the only way I know to take and keep control. Stay strong!!
Nope. There are no peer reviewed scientific studies that show fast food is addicting.
Yep, there are:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02791072.2012.662092
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.454.8591&rep=rep1&type=pdf
http://www.wealthandhealth.ltd.uk/articles/processed food addiction.pd
http://fastlab.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/GearhardtCorbinBrownell_PreliminaryValidationYaleFoodAddictionScale_2008.pdf
http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=econ_fac
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrea_Garber/publication/51722472_Is_Fast_Food_Addictive/links/02bfe5134f5732aef2000000/Is-Fast-Food-Addictive.pdf
This is just from a cursory search in Google Scholar. All are peer-reviewed and from reputable publications including Yale and Cal Poly universities.
None of your links show that fast food is addicting. They all start with the assumption that it is addicting but don't actually prove that it is.11 -
I can't believe I read this whole thing. Think I'll go get a Whopper.
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Well I think we can all agree that no food is physiologically addictive but the behavior of eating fast food (or any food you find delicious) makes some of us feel good. I do think that I am more emotionally attached to food than some other people and this is just my personal thoughts on the issue; nothing at all founded in any kind of science, but I believe it's a way to self-soothe/cope. Have you considered therapy?6
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Did you know McDonald’s French fries has 17 different additives? I think the addiction may be both mental and physical but perhaps more mental (mind over body). Fast food is so unnatural and so processed that our bodies literally don’t know what to do with it once consumed. Our bodies are not designed to deal with such high levels of processed food. Let’s think about it this way: how many oranges or apples can you eat before you wouldn’t want to eat any more? Now how much French fries can you have before your body says stop? Which one has the highest calorie and fat content? Our bodies can deal with natural food very easily. We eat some and we are satisfied. However, processed food (chips, fast food, etc) is a different story. They are designed to make us want to go back for more. It is as if there is a disconnect between the brain and the stomach and the signals are not being routed properly.
In short, I think this addiction you are referring to has mostly mental as well as physical components to it. Some psychotherapy will defintily help by identifying the root of the problem as well as methods to deal with the urges. I hope you find your way. Fight on!
You can take 30 seconds to Google what's in McDonald's french fries and even if you count all types of oils that go into their oil mix separately, it's not 17.10 -
when I was younger, i worked at burger king for a couple years. when I quit, i never eaten anything fast food again. except chick fil a and maybe cook out1
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Usually no one wants plain spaghetti, though -- it's the combination of pasta and a sauce that normally has fat and protein in it. (Maybe I'm weird, but the sauce has always been the most important part of pasta for me, easily.)
I must be weird because I really like plain pasta. I don't know why because usually I'm all about flavours, herbs, spices, seasonings etc. But something about plain pasta is ridiculously enjoyable for me. lol
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lemurcat12 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'd actually separate OP's issues, which might well be some kind of eating addiction and currently are probably related to her weight loss program (which is really restrictive) and not having gotten to the point of working through how to reintroduce a variety of foods and not fall back into old habits, which hopefully will be a part of it, from those claiming that fast food (or, bizarrely, sugar, which seems off-topic) are akin to heroin (or perhaps worse than given recent developments in the thread).
Yep, because unless I have my threads confused, OP did come back and clarify her situation, and has a far better handle on it than the folks who came in here to white knight while railing against the evils of sugar, Big Fast Food, random unnameable toxins, and the falsehood of opioid addiction proven by science. This thread needs a facepalm or something.
Yes -- I think it's a huge shame, because even though with OP I think a lot of it was the restrictive diet, I do think that there could have been a good conversation about the pull of habit, how to deal with those kinds of urgings and cravings, so on, and various ways to handle the temptation of palatable foods.
OP's comment made me immediately suspect it was not just about fast food, which is why I asked if she felt like she could have a homemade burger, and of course she explained she was on a diet where that was not possible. To then try to make this -- as some have -- about some magical properties of fast food seems really off base.
OP may be dealing with more than most of us (I don't think someone who is 400 lb, as OP was when she started, is dealing with precisely the same things as someone who needs to lose, I dunno, 20, even if the 20 lb overweight person thinks that her love for fries is JUST EXACTLY LIKE addiction), but despite her word choice I doubt it's limited to fast food but that it could be something similar to an addiction (or maybe compulsive overeating is a better term), and her chosen way of dealing with it may be working because it eliminates temptation for a while --
kind of like that potatoes only guy -- but that eventually she will need to figure out how to deal with tempting food.
The "it's a drug, it's all about the specific foods, just cut it out" people don't seem to be helpful.
Also, the argument that fast food is like opiates (which IMO is absurd) is rather off topic, the question was how to deal with cravings from tempting food, basically.
I find it frustrating that this thread went so off topic as to end up in Debate, and I blame those who have some axe to grind and want to insist that liking food is exactly like being a drug addict. While, yes, some others took issue with OP's use of the term addiction, it was in a context of giving helpful advice and saying how they handled it. I note that when people popped in to say "yes, it is too an addiction," not only did their supposed cites not match the claims, but they were focused on creating an argument and did not give helpful advice to OP. I think that's really a shame.
I respectfully disagree with the comment that cutting out the foods that we have a tendency to vastly overeat is bad advice.
But that's not actually what I said, is it?
I think avoiding trigger foods CAN be decent advice given more information and a context.
What I think is bad advice is assuming the issue is an "addiction" to "fast food" and then recommending that "fast food" be treated as if it were alcohol for an alcoholic.
I especially think that's bad advice when we know OP has some sort of issues with food and has been on a very restrictive diet cutting out not just fast food, but all kinds of delicious (and healthy) foods, such as a homemade burger, or probably even roasted chicken with brussels, potatoes, and a little olive oil and salt.
The potato diet approach works only for a while, but most do better figuring out how to normalize their relationship with foods so they can eat things they enjoy without obsessing about them.
Not saying that it doesn't make sense for some to, say, avoid having sweets at home or cut out fast food for a while while trying to develop better habits and a broader palate or what not. There are many option, but when you jump to "treat fast food as if you were an alcoholic and it were alcohol" then there's no room to discuss the specifics or that different approaches work for different people.Having moderate amounts was just too difficult.
I used to have some things that I had no interest in moderating. Indian food was one, some kinds of sweets (pie) is another. What I do is have Indian food about once a month and eat whatever I want, usually on a good workout day. (Last time I got it I found myself naturally moderating more, which was interesting, although I'm fine with having a splurge day too.)
Re pie, I find it easier to just have it on holidays, when I want to bake and have others to share it. If I made it at other times it would be hard not to overeat.
Similarly, I will rarely have a really good restaurant dessert if the restaurant has interesting worth-it (or probably worth-it) desserts. When I do, I don't try to eat only 200 cal worth; I eat as much as I want, even if it's 800 cal (or whatever).
But I do go through periods where I rarely have sweets, since it's also easier for me if I'm in an emotional eating kind of phase not to have it. But I would never say they are something I've cut out, since if I decide to have them I can, without it being a failure or something that means I've ruined everything or whatever.I had a friend who had avoided sweet treats for 3 years straight and became very distraught one day when her ex-husband tried to shove a chocolate into her mouth. She felt strongly that having that one chocolate had the potential to undo all her hard work. She really felt like an addict. I felt for her.
Obviously he was a jerk, but I do feel like that's one reason why treating like and calling it an addiction can be very counter-productive. I think it creates the reaction where if you do have a little you can't control it, both because you've told yourself you cannot control it for so long you have created a situation where you maybe can't (self fulfilling prophecy) and because if you think this is your only chance EVER to have it and things are already ruined, of course people binge.
That's one reason why I've really consciously tried to focus on NOT making any foods a forbidden fruit.
I went back to try and find what I thought I was responding to and had trouble. Maybe this: “The "it's a drug, it's all about the specific foods, just cut it out" people don't seem to be helpful.” Apparently I’m sensitive to the idea that abstinence is bad advice because that’s the part that jumped out at me.
I have never had a problem with fast food so I’m on shaky ground discussing it, and you can see that I switched over to talking more about “sugar addiction” than fast food. I wandered away from the OP’s problem specifically because she hasn’t returned to the thread. I agree that in her case it is most likely her overly restrictive diet that is at the root of the problem. I seriously doubt that I could adhere to that kind of diet either. Maybe I’m being too dismissive, she’d need to come back and tell us more. But to be honest I’m not sure that telling her it’s not addictive behaviour that is behind her actions will actually help. She needs more than that (broadening again to how these threads often go, not your advice in particular lemurcat, in fact I noted something you said in one of these threads recently that seemed very helpful. Sorry they all start to blur together after a while.)
As to my friend, and the idea that if you have ANY trigger foods, things are ruined, yes, I agree that it’s a problem. I don’t know what was going on in her mind, but if she thought the way I did, it wasn’t the label of “addiction” per se, but the memory of how strongly the habit of overeating sweet treats had been established, and her mistrust of her own ability to moderate. It was her past performance that was the problem. That’s why I veered off into the idea of exposure therapy. The solution, in my mind, at that moment (hadn’t really thought of it before then but growing to like it more), if we don’t want to practice complete abstinence, we have to carefully engineer some incidences of successful moderation. Trying to moderate without taking great care to set up situations where you think you’re very likely to succeed, IMO, is more likely to lead to more failures, reinforcing the idea that you are powerless. These aren’t your words lemurcat, but the “just moderate” advice has always caused me frustration. I was never a victim of anything, the actions I took and habits I created were my own doing, but they became so strong that except in unusual circumstances having “just a little” seemed impossible. None was much easier.1 -
@lemurcat12 I came back to say thanks for this:
“I think avoiding trigger foods CAN be decent advice given more information and a context.”
and to apologize for sticking to my agenda more than addressing all your points individually in the way you do so well.
But also to comment on this:
“Re pie, I find it easier to just have it on holidays, when I want to bake and have others to share it. If I made it at other times it would be hard not to overeat.”
Happy Pi Day! Not exactly an official holiday but reason enough for me to eat pie today. Did you?
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Heh, I remembered it was pie day after I wrote that, but no pie today. ;-(3
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estherdragonbat wrote: »broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »Nobody here (or anywhere else) is addicted to fast food. Some may find it hyper-palatable and easy to overindulge on, but it has no symptoms of addiction and won’t cause physical withdrawal if you don’t have it.
However the way our brain reacts to certain foods is the same as a drug addict reacts to drugs. This has been scientifically proven and has numerous studies behind it. Just cause something isn't physically addicting or doesn't have physical withdrawals, doesn't mean it isn't addicting. There are drugs that are mental addiction's. Methamphetamine being one of them.
Your brain shows the same reaction to petting puppies.
I am 100% addicted to petting puppies.5 -
candylilacs wrote: »It's carbs and sugar! Can it not be addictive?
1) Sugar is carbs. And all carbs are eventually metabolized into simple sugars in the body.
2) Sugar is not addictive: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28330706
3) Fast foods are often very high in fat as are a lot of "treat" or "junk" foods. Why isn't fat getting the bad rap for being evil and addictive and fattening? Oh yeah, I forgot - because the keto fad.
Addressing peer reviewed evidence #2. Have you seen this? Call me skeptical of a study based on self reporting on an online survey that asks for participants to remember and classify food intake as far back as 12 months and no questions about exercise habits. The fact the author Peter Roger's is bought and paid for by the sugar and soda industry and has come out with another research paper claiming Diet Soda could help weight loss better than water makes me question his research on sugar.
https://www.naturalhealthnews.uk/newsletter/sugar-sweeteners-and-science-for-sale/
Does low-energy sweetener consumption affect energy intake and body weight? A systematic review, including meta-analyses, of the evidence from human and animal studies
P J Rogers et al
International Journal of Obesity volume 40, pages 381–394 (2016)
doi:10.1038/ijo.2015.177
14 -
candylilacs wrote: »It's carbs and sugar! Can it not be addictive?
1) Sugar is carbs. And all carbs are eventually metabolized into simple sugars in the body.
2) Sugar is not addictive: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28330706
3) Fast foods are often very high in fat as are a lot of "treat" or "junk" foods. Why isn't fat getting the bad rap for being evil and addictive and fattening? Oh yeah, I forgot - because the keto fad.
Addressing peer reviewed evidence #2. Have you seen this? Call me skeptical of a study based on self reporting on an online survey that asks for participants to remember and classify food intake as far back as 12 months and no questions about exercise habits. The fact the author Peter Roger's is bought and paid for by the sugar and soda industry and has come out with another research paper claiming Diet Soda could help weight loss better than water makes me question his research on sugar.
https://www.naturalhealthnews.uk/newsletter/sugar-sweeteners-and-science-for-sale/
Does low-energy sweetener consumption affect energy intake and body weight? A systematic review, including meta-analyses, of the evidence from human and animal studies
P J Rogers et al
International Journal of Obesity volume 40, pages 381–394 (2016)
doi:10.1038/ijo.2015.177
Did you mean to link to a naturopathic website that also promotes homeopathy or was there originally a link to a reputable website that was supposed to go there?15 -
The fact the author Peter Roger's is bought and paid for by the sugar and soda industry and has come out with another research paper claiming Diet Soda could help weight loss better than water
If he's bought and paid for by Big Sugar, why is he advocating diet drinks, which don't contain sugar?
eta: Wouldn't he be pushing the full-sugar versions if he was also bought and paid for by Big Soda?15 -
candylilacs wrote: »It's carbs and sugar! Can it not be addictive?
1) Sugar is carbs. And all carbs are eventually metabolized into simple sugars in the body.
2) Sugar is not addictive: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28330706
3) Fast foods are often very high in fat as are a lot of "treat" or "junk" foods. Why isn't fat getting the bad rap for being evil and addictive and fattening? Oh yeah, I forgot - because the keto fad.
Addressing peer reviewed evidence #2. Have you seen this? Call me skeptical of a study based on self reporting on an online survey that asks for participants to remember and classify food intake as far back as 12 months and no questions about exercise habits. The fact the author Peter Roger's is bought and paid for by the sugar and soda industry and has come out with another research paper claiming Diet Soda could help weight loss better than water makes me question his research on sugar.
https://www.naturalhealthnews.uk/newsletter/sugar-sweeteners-and-science-for-sale/
Does low-energy sweetener consumption affect energy intake and body weight? A systematic review, including meta-analyses, of the evidence from human and animal studies
P J Rogers et al
International Journal of Obesity volume 40, pages 381–394 (2016)
doi:10.1038/ijo.2015.177
I'm pretty sure something called Natural Health News also has it's own axe to grind
I believe any argument to your post has already been said multiple times in this thread. And a "natural health" blog post doesn't make me rethink the issue.10 -
collectingblues wrote: »Katherinelittle24 wrote: »Random Thought:
Who here is addicted to fast food? Yesterday, I kind of cheated on my weight loss program and had Burger King for the first time in a while. Now, at that very moment it felt good to have a hamburger again but than later in the evening, I felt disgusting. I felt bloated, heavy, depressed and felt like I didn't want to work out at all. Honesty, since then, I have felt this desire to get more fast food, and even though I was full after I had a meal at Burger King, I still wanted more....that's how terrible my addiction is. Fast Food is the devil haha sorry don't need to be dramatic but for those that are addicted to food, I'm sure you will understand.
Long story short, since November of 2017, I've lost 52lbs. I have a long way to go but when I started my weight loss journey, I was 400lbs. I became highly addicted to fast food. Even though I love to cook and I love all of the healthy delicious foods, I ate fast food about four days a week at least and that's how I became so obese. I wanted fast food every day and yesterday, I got a glimpse of the old me and it kind of scared me because thinking about how much I've worked on myself since then, and how much I can easily gain the weight I loss because of my terrible food addiction. After I had fast food, my mind has been thinking about it ever since. Does anyone else get these thoughts as well?
Just so I'm clear. You've been eating a restrictive diet. You then ate a highly palatable food that you've not allowed yourself to have. Now you want more of this highly palatable food.
But instead of accepting that you ate something that tasted good, surely it must be an addiction, because then you couldn't have possibly had anything to do with it.
Missing the "awesome" button right about now.9 -
meganhirschi wrote: »I relate my addiction is all carbs... I had spaghetti last night and spent the rest of the night wishing i had made more so there had been leftovers. Im still thinking about it and it makes me crazy.
Thank you. This is how I feel. Pasta with sauces of all kinds . . . Meat . . . Vegetable . . . Just butter . . . Now I suddenly feel hungry.0 -
The fact the author Peter Roger's is bought and paid for by the sugar and soda industry and has come out with another research paper claiming Diet Soda could help weight loss better than water
If he's bought and paid for by Big Sugar, why is he advocating diet drinks, which don't contain sugar?
eta: Wouldn't he be pushing the full-sugar versions if he was also bought and paid for by Big Soda?
Big Sugar's check must have bounced. Isn't that always the way?10 -
Why is it people 'addicted to carbs' never have some unhealthy focus on squash, beets, peas, and beans. This makes me question whether the carbs are even a factor.16
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Not that I buy carb addiction, but possibly the perceived issue is "starchy" carbs?
1 -
meganhirschi wrote: »I relate my addiction is all carbs... I had spaghetti last night and spent the rest of the night wishing i had made more so there had been leftovers. Im still thinking about it and it makes me crazy.
Thank you. This is how I feel. Pasta with sauces of all kinds . . . Meat . . . Vegetable . . . Just butter . . . Now I suddenly feel hungry.
Sure, but if you have pasta with a sauce, it normally has at least fat and carbs, often fat, carbs, and protein. So if you find that super tasty and want to overeat it, I don't know why carbs would be singled out as the culprit (i.e., "my addiction is all carbs").
Personally, it's not an addiction, but sure I love pasta, with all kinds of sauces. But for me the sauce is the key, it's not something I'd eat on its own (well, no often), but I often find putting it on veg (like spaghetti sauce) is almost as tasty, and when I was a kid I'd always have a little pasta, lots of sauce (at the time people would sneer and say that was so American, in Italy it would be the other way around). Plain pasta might have been okay if nothing else I liked was available, but plain pasta or plain rice or plain potatoes or bread aren't things I will overeat (unless I'm super hungry or something). It's the tasty additions, usually fat and protein, as well as simply more vegetables, that make a pasta dish (or rice with curry or so on) something hard to stop eating. At least for me.1 -
fuzzylop72 wrote: »Why is it people 'addicted to carbs' never have some unhealthy focus on squash, beets, peas, and beans. This makes me question whether the carbs are even a factor.
Yeah, if someone has a carb addiction, I recommend carrots.
Although IMO even plain potatoes are low enough cal that they are hard to overeat too much. I think people go nuts with potatoes (more often than not) when they add butter or fry them or the like.
To be fair, OP didn't introduce the carb addiction topic.3
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