Hating on abs, I get it, but who doesnt want a strong core?

rybo

Maybe it's because of the overwhelming focus that people think crunches will give them abs, but I see so, so often that the advice is given not to bother doing any ab/core work at all and to just get the work as part of your big compound lifts like squats and deads. My question is why? There's a lot of people that could benefit from having a strong core, even if the goal isnt a 6 pack or to squat a house. It's going to help with posture and often times lower back pain.

Beyond that, does no one have interests in flags, dragon flags, levers & other impressive core moves?

Azdak

False logic--Doing ab exercises isn't really "strengthening your core". "Core" work does NOT equal "ab work". Most lower back pain is related to weak glutes and tight hip flexors, not weak abs (assuming no structural damage). .

JenMc14

But if you're doing big, compound lifts properly, you're really working your core. Squats engage your core to stabilize the bar on your back, OHP (standing) depends on your core to stabilize as well. I do other core targeted work such as planks, Russian twists and crunches as part of my routine, but I see why some people feel doing compound lifts are enough.

SadFaerie

I'm one of those awful people who advocate not doing separate abs workouts. What for? Squats? Core engaged. Deadlifts? Core engaged. Pushups? Core engaged. And so on and on. You can check my pictures to see how awful my belly is.

JoRocka

I do "core work"

I never do ab specific work on big lift days- it's just nonsensical to me. But if I'm doing a HIIT session- yes- I'll include something.

I can't do dragon flags- mostly because for embarrassing reasons- but I do toe to bar- skin the cat- L sit stuff. I'd love to do levers and what not- but I have really bad elbows at this point.

I do plank rows, pallow press, stability ball roll outs and a variety of other fun ab games that are NOT crunches.

ain't no body got time for that chit!

taso42

You don't seem to understand what strong core means. Work up to squatting and deadlifting 2-3x your body weight. That'll give you a strong core a hell of a lot faster than direct ab work.

chrisdavey

To play devil's advocate, there are many people who could squat or deadlift much more IF they did some direct core work to additionally strength that area.

I personally love stuff like standing ab wheel rollouts, front levers etc. Obviously, they play a secondary role being that I am a powerlifter though.

contingencyplan

Ab isolation exercises don't do much to strengthen the core. The core is strengthened by using it in a more functional role. Hence why the emphasis on getting your ab work from your compounds.

sub10orbust

Wish i worked abs more during bulk

kevinjb1

Bumping so I can google these ab exercises mentioned later.

K_Serz

I hate bursting everyones bubble here, but oh well. I do notice a huge difference when incorporating ab isolation exercises into my workout program. I notice that its easier just to situp and get out of bed in the morning. Yes, I REALLY DO NOTICE THAT.

I have also noticed that if I stop doing the isolated ab work for a couple of weeks when I start back up again, its pretty tough as I can feel the muscles are weaker and more easily fatigued. Again, this is probably another one of those things thats just genetic. I have generally weak abs and cant seem to locate a 2-pack nevermind a 6-pack.

So while this doesnt apply to a majority this does apply to me. (just to clarify I do these only 2-3 times per week, not every day)

CoderGal

Maybe it's because of the overwhelming focus that people think crunches will give them abs, but I see so, so often that the advice is given not to bother doing any ab/core work at all and to just get the work as part of your big compound lifts like squats and deads. My question is why? There's a lot of people that could benefit from having a strong core, even if the goal isnt a 6 pack or to squat a house. It's going to help with posture and often times lower back pain.

Beyond that, does no one have interests in flags, dragon flags, levers & other impressive core moves?

You have obviously not done a proper heavy standing overhead press. That strengthens my core a lot more then crunches do. With that said, I think some people could use direct ab work. It all depends on what you're looking for. But a lot of these compound lift programs significantly work your core. And can get you abs.

CoderGal

I'm one of those awful people who advocate not doing separate abs workouts. What for? Squats? Core engaged. Deadlifts? Core engaged. Pushups? Core engaged. And so on and on. You can check my pictures to see how awful my belly is.

Yeah...you're doing just fine lol.

K_Serz

omg, challeged in the forums on monday morning. need more coffee


:drinker:

JoRocka

You have obviously not done a proper heavy standing overhead press. That strengthens my core a lot more then crunches do. With that said, I think some people could use direct ab work. It all depends on what you're looking for. But a lot of these compound lift programs significantly work your core. And can get you abs.

and for people with shoulder problems- or elbow problems?

I"m a BIG fan of compound lifts- really I am- but not everyone can do them (I have a respectable DL and Squat- and I have fabulous abs... I can't truly over head press for s%%T because my elbow will not take it.

I'll do clean and press- bear complexes- but I'm pretty stalled at 75/80 lbs and those aren't presses- those are more explosive lifts.- anything over that fires up my elbow in the worse way. sad panda face.

Just saying- there is no reason why not to do other fun things if you like doing them. Any sort of turning around/jumping/ or turn over is going to fire that trunk section right on up- so if you like doing ninja tuck jumps- by all means- incorporate them... then tell me you aren't getting some ab work in there.

kirstyfairhead

Are most people really saying don't do ab work or are they suggesting that folks should do compound lifts because you get ab/core strength as well as other benefits!!!

I'm thinking that killing two birds, or in this case multiple birds, with one stone is a fairly good philosophy and a pretty efficient way to work out.

I include some core strength exercises, crunches, planks, cobra's etc with my compound lift routine but wouldn't want to be focussing 20 or 30 mins just on abs. I like to get more 'bang for my buck' as far as time spent goes!!!

fivethreeone

I havent done a single core-specific exercise in 10 months. I haven't done ANY cardio in almost five months.

These abs are from heavy lifting.

CoderGal

You have obviously not done a proper heavy standing overhead press. That strengthens my core a lot more then crunches do. With that said, I think some people could use direct ab work. It all depends on what you're looking for. But a lot of these compound lift programs significantly work your core. And can get you abs.

and for people with shoulder problems- or elbow problems?

I"m a BIG fan of compound lifts- really I am- but not everyone can do them (I have a respectable DL and Squat- and I have fabulous abs... I can't truly over head press for s%%T because my elbow will not take it.

I'll do clean and press- bear complexes- but I'm pretty stalled at 75/80 lbs and those aren't presses- those are more explosive lifts.- anything over that fires up my elbow in the worse way. sad panda face.

Just saying- there is no reason why not to do other fun things if you like doing them. Any sort of turning around/jumping/ or turn over is going to fire that trunk section right on up- so if you like doing ninja tuck jumps- by all means- incorporate them... then tell me you aren't getting some ab work in there.

I didn't say don't do ab work. I'm just saying compound lifts are ab work. Like I said, "I think some people could use direct ab work". If you're looking to not frig your arms in a particular case, or if you just like doing it, then go for it.

Sarauk2sf

False logic--Doing ab exercises isn't really "strengthening your core". "Core" work does NOT equal "ab work". Most lower back pain is related to weak glutes and tight hip flexors, not weak abs (assuming no structural damage). .

Yep.

Your core comprises abs (transverse and rectus), obliques, lower back and also your glutes and a few others. Direct ab work does not hit all these. Squats do.

Sarauk2sf

To play devil's advocate, there are many people who could squat or deadlift much more IF they did some direct core work to additionally strength that area.

I personally love stuff like standing ab wheel rollouts, front levers etc. Obviously, they play a secondary role being that I am a powerlifter though.

^^also agreed. As with any iso work, there is no reason not in incorporate it to 'shore up' and as a complement to compounds. It really does not have to be an either or. Goals and time constraints are relevant.

rybo

I don't think my post came across as intended, I blame it being early on monday. I never advocated crunches or other ab isolation exercises as a way of building a strong core.

Not everyone cares to, or wants to do heavy squatting, dead lifting & over head presses, yet many here will make you believe that's the best/only way to strengthen your core. All I am saying is that there are a TON of other movements & holds out there that can be done that will engage your core as good if not better. No one ever gives people those options as suggested advice.
Planks, side planks, roll/walk outs, L-sits, V-Sits, Hollow body, superman, front levers, back levers, wipers, flag progressions, etc.

chrisdavey

Planks, side planks, roll/walk outs, L-sits, V-Sits, Hollow body, superman, front levers, back levers, wipers, flag progressions, etc.

That plus dragon flags and hanging leg raises minus the isometric stuff (except for beginners) is what I typically recommend for building core strength.

Having people who have only ever done crunches for "ab work" do some ab wheel rollouts can be interesting. That is where you see the entire core being used not just the rectus abdominus

bumblebums

I am still holding out for that day when someone posts a thread on how to get a super-buff psoas or quadratus lumborum. Oh wait, you can't see those. Nevermind.

Sarauk2sf

I don't think my post came across as intended, I blame it being early on monday. I never advocated crunches or other ab isolation exercises as a way of building a strong core.

Not everyone cares to, or wants to do heavy squatting, dead lifting & over head presses, yet many here will make you believe that's the best/only way to strengthen your core. All I am saying is that there are a TON of other movements & holds out there that can be done that will engage your core as good if not better. No one ever gives people those options as suggested advice.
Planks, side planks, roll/walk outs, L-sits, V-Sits, Hollow body, superman, front levers, back levers, wipers, flag progressions, etc.

It's really a time/efficiency thing imo.

chrisdavey

I am still holding out for that day when someone posts a thread on how to get a super-buff psoas or quadratus lumborum. Oh wait, you can't see those. Nevermind.

I'm weird but I complimented my GF on her spinal erectors the other day :laugh: Lucky she knows I'm weird and accepted the compliment.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

sarahmoo12

bump for a read later

bumblebums

I am still holding out for that day when someone posts a thread on how to get a super-buff psoas or quadratus lumborum. Oh wait, you can't see those. Nevermind.

I'm weird but I complimented my GF on her spinal erectors the other day :laugh: Lucky she knows I'm weird and accepted the compliment.

You want weird, compliment her on her levator ani.

No_Finish_Line

i'm glad i'm seeing at least a few guys that look as though they've been lifting for awhile advocating the direct core work.

Are squats and deadlifts better at building functional core strenght? well if by functional you mean lifting heavy things or even light things from somewhat award postiions, then the answer is yes (obivoulsy).

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

Anyone who thinks one form of exercise covers all basis of being fit, has a very limited view of fitness in general.

I"d say the bottom line is that if you just want a relatively healthy core, then squats dead lifts etc are fine, but if you want it to be as pretty as it can then you should do some direct work

No_Finish_Line

i guess in the end it all comes down to what your goals are. if strength is your most important goal then its clear what you got to focus on.

idk, as long as your eating appropriately, i don't see any exercise as really being a waste of time.

da_bears10089

I get plenty of core worth with my compound movements, and throwing in some Turkish Get-Ups and occasional push ups.