Hating on abs, I get it, but who doesnt want a strong core?

DavPul

Maybe weird or doing it wrong, but I could squat, deadlift and OHP with the strongest people in my gym but that never gave me enough core work. I couldn't even hold a basic plank.

Now I do focused core and ab work, and not only is my core stronger, the numbers on my big lifts have increased.

3laine75

i think the 'hate' is for isolation work. you're getting an ab workout with the big compound lifts - you're just using your body more naturally, in the way it was intended - there isn't alot of everyday use for crunches etc.

i'm i a believer in doing what you enjoy though - so if you like crunches, you should do them if you want

phatguerilla

There might be one out of a hundred people who would find no benefit from direct ab work, but the rest of us are much better served by doing a mix of weighted and isometric ab work, even if you're already doing heavy compounds. There no way training your abs intelligently will make you less stable in the squat.

PikaKnight

I do agree that you can get in some work doing compound exercises, such as squats, push ups, etc. But I've personally found that I'm able to do these exercises better because I included core isolation exercises such as crunches and planks.

ETA: But I like what someone else said that basically the reason people "le sigh" isn't because of the exercise, but because of the assumed notions that exist thanks to the advertising of such ab only workouts. Also, more often than not, the person asking isn't really concerned about actually strengthening their core but getting rid of the fat there and are looking for specific answers to fat loss, versus strength.

jwdieter

i think the 'hate' is for isolation work. you're getting an ab workout with the big compound lifts - you're just using your body more naturally, in the way it was intended - there isn't alot of everyday use for crunches etc.

i'm i a believer in doing what you enjoy though - so if you like crunches, you should do them if you want

I feel the same way, except standard compound lifts I don't consider particularly natural movements. Depends on what you do, but I swing and climb and vault a lot more than I deadlift and squat outside the gym. Crunches are meh, but there are a lot of very useful core exercises.

WendyTerry420

Maybe weird or doing it wrong, but I could squat, deadlift and OHP with the strongest people in my gym but that never gave me enough core work. I couldn't even hold a basic plank.

Now I do focused core and ab work, and not only is my core stronger, the numbers on my big lifts have increased.

:drinker:

CoderGal

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

contingencyplan

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

Crashing one unfortunately does not. =P

MyChocolateDiet

I thought it was because most of today's workouts engage the core as a major part of the move? Unlike the workouts of the past that were very spot specific and thusly you HAD to do a specific one for abs.

Maybe someone will be able to tell me if I'm right in assuming that when I do most of my today style workouts my core is being engaged in my attempts to balance myself or weights I've added for resistance. Staying off of machines seems to engage my core for everything I do from stairs, to yoga, to lifting a free weight, to pilates, to treadmill on an incline to etc. Am I wrong in this assumption?

CoderGal

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

Crashing one unfortunately does not. =P

You're one to talk, nice new plastics

Escape_Artist

I'm one of those awful people who advocate not doing separate abs workouts. What for? Squats? Core engaged. Deadlifts? Core engaged. Pushups? Core engaged. And so on and on. You can check my pictures to see how awful my belly is.

This.

Also, nice abs there

JoRocka

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

how do you like that A*

I just got a brand new Dianese and I cant' find pants to fit for love god or money- my waist is to tiny so either I can GET them over the ****ing round lump 3 feet below my head- then they are too big- or they just won't get up over my thighs.

And what do you ride??

inquiring minds want to know... and yes- I'm thread jacking.

LOL side note- I refuse to log my sportbike riding as exercise- although I know I"m burning- I just refuse to log it.... I wonder how much it would count *kitten* anyway?

sijomial

I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).

Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.

I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.

heatherloveslifting

I am still holding out for that day when someone posts a thread on how to get a super-buff psoas or quadratus lumborum. Oh wait, you can't see those. Nevermind.

That is a shame because I have a very strong psoas.

mustgetmuscles1

There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.

contingencyplan

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

Crashing one unfortunately does not. =P

You're one to talk, nice new plastics

They are purdy though aren't they

No_Finish_Line

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

idk, was talking about functional strength. rarely do i climb a rope or do a pull up outside of a workout but riding a bike is something i do in life so it acutally seems more like a functional thing then all the rest.

i ride a SV650S if that question was asked of me.

contingencyplan

might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.

I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :laugh:

idk, was talking about functional strength. rarely do i climb a rope or do a pull up outside of a workout but riding a bike is something i do in life so it acutally seems more like a functional thing then all the rest.

i ride a SV650S if that question was asked of me.

My first bike was an SV650. Great bike but needs some suspension work if you really wanna be able to push it. I ended up upgrading to a ZX6R because I didn't want to sink the money into doing the suspension work and would rather have a bike that came with it out of the box. JoRocka I know also rides an SV650S.

No_Finish_Line

a better conversation would be what direct ab work exercises are most effective. again, your goals matter most here but if the goal is a six pack there are a few that are definetly more useful then other. the crunch being one of them.

I always thought the ab roller was a gimic. but i read an article where they attached electrodes to see how much it made the abdominal muslces fire. It was one of the most effective movements out there.

I'd say haning knee raises and hanging leg raises are most effective. do your crunches immediately after those and you'll feel them a lot more.

VeggieKidMandy

I havent done a single core-specific exercise in 10 months. I haven't done ANY cardio in almost five months.

These abs are from heavy lifting.

Wow~! I need to do some heavy lifting! that is impressive!

HeidiMightyRawr

It's because when you do big compound lifts, you ARE working your core, and very effectively too! If you're doing these exercises, you shouldn't have a weak core at all.

I have nothing against direct ab work, I just don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people. There have been so many times now where I've woken up in the morning to ab soreness (from working out) but have not done isolated ab work in months! What had I done the day before? Pull ups (with a strong focus on the slow negative), or squats, or deadlifts (more core involved if you don't use a belt) ...

By all means though, if you want your core even stronger, or even bigger ab muscles, go ahead! I see it's uses.

PikaKnight

There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.

This is because a lot of people are beginners and do not have basic strength knowledge. The programs that are suggested also help educate people. Otherwise you get people doing these core building exercises and ONLY core isolated exercises 5-6 days a week straight.

No_Finish_Line

I just don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people.

define necessary. i mean, probably half of what people end up doing really isn't necessary to be healthy.

if you want the most out of your core, its only going to help to work it more.

if your happy with what you've got and you don't do any direct core work, great.

if you want more then its not such a bad idea to through that stuff in there.

Azdak

Maybe weird or doing it wrong, but I could squat, deadlift and OHP with the strongest people in my gym but that never gave me enough core work. I couldn't even hold a basic plank.

Now I do focused core and ab work, and not only is my core stronger, the numbers on my big lifts have increased.

It stands to reason that someone is only as strong as their weakest link. Depending on one's program, I can imagine that one might reach a point where gains in some areas outpaced gains in others so that it became noticeable. I never did biceps or triceps work until I realized I could no longer lift my dumbbells into position to do incline or shoulder presses.

Like a lot of threads on this topic, it started (me included) with push back against the CW "strong core = ab work".

As the discussion continues, more nuance is added. In this case, it has contributed to an overall more informative and well-balanced discussion.

PikaKnight

a better conversation would be what direct ab work exercises are most effective. again, your goals matter most here but if the goal is a six pack there are a few that are definetly more useful then other. the crunch being one of them.

I always thought the ab roller was a gimic. but i read an article where they attached electrodes to see how much it made the abdominal muslces fire. It was one of the most effective movements out there.

I'd say haning knee raises and hanging leg raises are most effective. do your crunches immediately after those and you'll feel them a lot more.

The most effective core exercise I've experienced and have seen "said so" by many others would be planks. I can't do too many crunches without it twinging my lower back (which I've had issues with in the past).

notanartmajor

Direct core work can absolutely be beneficial. Squats and deads are great for core strength, sure, but what if a weaker core is holding those lifts back? Ab rollers, good mornings, pallof presses, etc. can improve your core stability which can in turn improve your Big 3 numbers.

No_Finish_Line

The most effective core exercise I've experienced and have seen "said so" by many others would be planks. I can't do too many crunches without it twinging my lower back (which I've had issues with in the past).

thats interesting, i've never heard anyone saying crunches in particular hurt thier lower back.

I think planks are an outstanding overall core exercise, pretty much hits every part of your core, which i would considier everything from just below your chest to your hip flexors, front and back.

I was trying to name most effective six pack exercises, which i would not consider plank one of (tho this might have been a bit off topic anyway).

As far as lower back pain, i never kicked my lower back issues till i started doing a lot of pull ups. Never thought that the pull up would help my lower back, but (and this is going to make the compound lifters happy) it works your core like you wouldn't believe.

Now back pain is more like it was in highschool, i'll experience it for a day or even a few hours then its gone.

i mean the core is like anything else, the more different ways you attack it, the better it will respond, the stronger and more healthy it will be.

frizbeemom

I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).

Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.

I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.

You said this just as well as I could have. I am transitioning from an injured, cardio-only type of gal into strength training, mostly with bodyweight and light weights. I haven't worked my way up to deadlifts, OHP, etc, yet, but I have been doing core & abs work and it has majorly impressed the hellouta me how much this has improved my back!!! Previously herniated discs in my lower back and I feel stronger and more fit than I ever have in my life, even pre-injury, as long as I don't do any stupid high-impact activities and pace myself into doing new workouts until I see how my back reacts. Before hitting core & abs work, I never thought I would get my back to this functional of a state again!

Glad it helped you as well!

No_Finish_Line

try punching out in front of you while in plank and alternating arms back and forth, thats a good way to make the plank even harder/more effective.

mustgetmuscles1

There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.

This is because a lot of people are beginners and do not have basic strength knowledge. The programs that are suggested also help educate people. Otherwise you get people doing these core building exercises and ONLY core isolated exercises 5-6 days a week straight.

Agreed. It is often the advice I give them myself. I dont tell them not to do direct ab/core work but I think that is where the OP might get the wrong impression that there is some "hate" towards direct ab work.