Hating on abs, I get it, but who doesnt want a strong core?
Replies
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I don't think my post came across as intended, I blame it being early on monday. I never advocated crunches or other ab isolation exercises as a way of building a strong core.
Not everyone cares to, or wants to do heavy squatting, dead lifting & over head presses, yet many here will make you believe that's the best/only way to strengthen your core. All I am saying is that there are a TON of other movements & holds out there that can be done that will engage your core as good if not better. No one ever gives people those options as suggested advice.
Planks, side planks, roll/walk outs, L-sits, V-Sits, Hollow body, superman, front levers, back levers, wipers, flag progressions, etc.There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.
I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.
http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk
I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.
Many people confuse abs/core strengthening with 6-packs. Doing core work like (Planks, side planks, roll/walk outs, L-sits, V-Sits, Hollow body, superman, front levers, back levers, wipers, flag progressions, etc) is equal necessary for a strong body, not just weight lifting or cardio. I have seen so many people who can lift huge weights and have define muscles but struggle with basic core movements.0 -
I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).
Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.
I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.
You said this just as well as I could have.
I am transitioning from an injured, cardio-only type of gal into strength training, mostly with bodyweight and light weights. I haven't worked my way up to deadlifts, OHP, etc, yet, but I have been doing core & abs work and it has majorly impressed the hellouta me how much this has improved my back!!! Previously herniated discs in my lower back and I feel stronger and more fit than I ever have in my life, even pre-injury, as long as I don't do any stupid high-impact activities and pace myself into doing new workouts until I see how my back reacts. Before hitting core & abs work, I never thought I would get my back to this functional of a state again!
Glad it helped you as well!
Slight hijack here, and just want to add a counterpoint for the sake of argument (not to take anything away from what you are doing and have achieved).
I work with a lot of people (including myself) who have back issues -- in fact I would say they are the majority of my clients, since they are usually the ones who feel more comfortable training with someone closer to their age).
We do almost no isolated ab or back work. We do a lot of step-ups, squats, front raises, pushups, hip abduction, one-legged squats, one-legged RDLs, sit to stands, etc. I've cured more back pain with doing hip abduction lifts on the Life Fitness Hip/Glute machine than I ever did with ab exercises or planks.
The only time we do isolated work is if someone is so debilitated and restricted in their movements they have trouble standing up for more than a couple of minutes. And in those cases, it can be very effective.
If one is staring out from zero, than anything will be helpful, and if someone is happy with doing the isolated work and seeing results, I would never tell them to stop. There are many different paths that can get you to the same goal. But, as people progress, I find less and less return from doing isolation exercises and better results from compound stabilization work.0 -
Oh yeah? I like those guys
I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups!might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.
:laugh:
idk, was talking about functional strength. rarely do i climb a rope or do a pull up outside of a workout but riding a bike is something i do in life so it acutally seems more like a functional thing then all the rest.
i ride a SV650S if that question was asked of me.
Comfortable and very adjustable and a weird looking not so common front to them. Rather light to. Which makes them not the greatest on the highways here (since its light and has this gigantic flag of a front faring on 'er)0 -
I havent done a single core-specific exercise in 10 months. I haven't done ANY cardio in almost five months.
These abs are from heavy lifting.
Wow~! I need to do some heavy lifting! that is impressive!
YEs she is a bad mamma jamma. I also have a friend on my wall with similar results. No core specific work, low ish BF and weights. Eats like a monster.0 -
No, I don't. I find them a waste of time so I don't regularly do core targeting exercises. And my abs are doing just fine.
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I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).
Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.
I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.
You said this just as well as I could have. I am transitioning from an injured, cardio-only type of gal into strength training, mostly with bodyweight and light weights. I haven't worked my way up to deadlifts, OHP, etc, yet, but I have been doing core & abs work and it has majorly impressed the hellouta me how much this has improved my back!!! Previously herniated discs in my lower back and I feel stronger and more fit than I ever have in my life, even pre-injury, as long as I don't do any stupid high-impact activities and pace myself into doing new workouts until I see how my back reacts. Before hitting core & abs work, I never thought I would get my back to this functional of a state again!
Glad it helped you as well!
Slight hijack here, and just want to add a counterpoint for the sake of argument (not to take anything away from what you are doing and have achieved).
I work with a lot of people (including myself) who have back issues -- in fact I would say they are the majority of my clients, since they are usually the ones who feel more comfortable training with someone closer to their age).
We do almost no isolated ab or back work. We do a lot of step-ups, squats, front raises, pushups, hip abduction, one-legged squats, one-legged RDLs, sit to stands, etc. I've cured more back pain with doing hip abduction lifts on the Life Fitness Hip/Glute machine than I ever did with ab exercises or planks.
The only time we do isolated work is if someone is so debilitated and restricted in their movements they have trouble standing up for more than a couple of minutes. And in those cases, it can be very effective.
If one is staring out from zero, than anything will be helpful, and if someone is happy with doing the isolated work and seeing results, I would never tell them to stop. There are many different paths that can get you to the same goal. But, as people progress, I find less and less return from doing isolation exercises and better results from compound stabilization work.
Perfect reply.0 -
Ditto. It seems like most of the leaner folks on my list are not big fans of cardio.I havent done a single core-specific exercise in 10 months. I haven't done ANY cardio in almost five months.
These abs are from heavy lifting.
Wow~! I need to do some heavy lifting! that is impressive!
YEs she is a bad mamma jamma. I also have a friend on my wall with similar results. No core specific work, low ish BF and weights. Eats like a monster.0 -
The most effective core exercise I've experienced and have seen "said so" by many others would be planks. I can't do too many crunches without it twinging my lower back (which I've had issues with in the past).
thats interesting, i've never heard anyone saying crunches in particular hurt thier lower back.
I think planks are an outstanding overall core exercise, pretty much hits every part of your core, which i would considier everything from just below your chest to your hip flexors, front and back.
I was trying to name most effective six pack exercises, which i would not consider plank one of (tho this might have been a bit off topic anyway).
As far as lower back pain, i never kicked my lower back issues till i started doing a lot of pull ups. Never thought that the pull up would help my lower back, but (and this is going to make the compound lifters happy) it works your core like you wouldn't believe.
Now back pain is more like it was in highschool, i'll experience it for a day or even a few hours then its gone.
i mean the core is like anything else, the more different ways you attack it, the better it will respond, the stronger and more healthy it will be.
Ditto, I've had problems with my back in the past and traditional crunches hurt. So now you've heard from two people that it can happen.0 -
No, I don't. I find them a waste of time so I don't regularly do core targeting exercises. And my abs are doing just fine.
wait what just happened here? did I die and go to heaven?
BTW Veni Vidi Vici? is that right. YOu sure as hell did!0 -
No, I don't. I find them a waste of time so I don't regularly do core targeting exercises. And my abs are doing just fine.
wait what just happened here? did I die and go to heaven?
BTW Veni Vidi Vici? is that right. YOu sure as hell did!
Haha..happens to be my life motto
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I do agree that you can get in some work doing compound exercises, such as squats, push ups, etc. But I've personally found that I'm able to do these exercises better because I included core isolation exercises such as crunches and planks.
ETA: But I like what someone else said that basically the reason people "le sigh" isn't because of the exercise, but because of the assumed notions that exist thanks to the advertising of such ab only workouts. Also, more often than not, the person asking isn't really concerned about actually strengthening their core but getting rid of the fat there and are looking for specific answers to fat loss, versus strength.
I pretty sure the bolded part is the answer to the OPs concerns. 99% of the responses that lambast iso ab routines are to correct the fallacy of spot reduction.0 -
good discusions...
just want to say though HOLLLLAAAAAAAAAA for the SV650's... I see a lot of that in here- and it makes me happies.
my little SV. she's amazaballs. 0 -
Maybe it's because of the overwhelming focus that people think crunches will give them abs, but I see so, so often that the advice is given not to bother doing any ab/core work at all and to just get the work as part of your big compound lifts like squats and deads. My question is why? There's a lot of people that could benefit from having a strong core, even if the goal isnt a 6 pack or to squat a house. It's going to help with posture and often times lower back pain.
Beyond that, does no one have interests in flags, dragon flags, levers & other impressive core moves?
Well it's clear abs can be visible without targeting them directly. However, your concern seems to be referring to having a strong core rather than just visible abs that come with low body fat. Thing is, you can easily gain a strong core without specific ab moves. Squats and deads, planks, and everything full body engages your core in a way that builds it up in a balanced manner. Overworking your core alone comes with it's own set of problems.0 -
I am currently doing ab isolation exercises because I am not working my legs heavily. I am training for my first 1/2 marathon and found that squating and deadlifting heavily made my legs feel like concrete when I tried to run 10+ miles. I have built my own upper body specific 5x5 workout that I do 3 times a week. I do chest, back, shoulders, bi and tri alternating between barbell and dumbbell exercises. I try to do shoulders and tris overhead to get some core work but it's nothing like sqauts and deadlifts so I'm adding core work. I do a lot of different core exercises, just doing whatever comes to mind in between my lifting sets. When I complete the 1/2 marathon I will go back to SL5x5 and P90x2 core and plyo which should give me plenty of core work.0
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No, I don't. I find them a waste of time so I don't regularly do core targeting exercises. And my abs are doing just fine.
wait what just happened here? did I die and go to heaven?
BTW Veni Vidi Vici? is that right. YOu sure as hell did!
Haha..happens to be my life motto
That used to be my favorite victory cheer back in the day....
"We came [clap] we conquered [clap, cap] and now we rule!"
only my OCD azz always had to whisper "we saw" at the first clap...LMFAO what a weirdo!
By the way this is an air crunch right?
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No, I don't. I find them a waste of time so I don't regularly do core targeting exercises. And my abs are doing just fine.
wait what just happened here? did I die and go to heaven?
BTW Veni Vidi Vici? is that right. YOu sure as hell did!
Haha..happens to be my life motto
That used to be my favorite victory cheer back in the day....
"We came [clap] we conquered [clap, cap] and now we rule!"
only my OCD azz always had to whisper "we saw" at the first clap...LMFAO what a weirdo!
By the way this is an air crunch right?
That's quite the outfit...it suits you very well.0 -
good discusions...
just want to say though HOLLLLAAAAAAAAAA for the SV650's... I see a lot of that in here- and it makes me happies. my little SV. she's amazaballs.
got to love 50 plus mpg. i think the v twin is more fun to ride then I4 as well. how much power does one really need anyway lol0 -
good discusions...
just want to say though HOLLLLAAAAAAAAAA for the SV650's... I see a lot of that in here- and it makes me happies. my little SV. she's amazaballs.
got to love 50 plus mpg. i think the v twin is more fun to ride then I4 as well. how much power does one really need anyway lol
the epic amount of **** I got from going from ta CBR F4i to the SV was insane. I got essentially de-friended over it (he was a die hard- like- over the top won't ride anything else Honda fan)...
I actually went up a tooth in the back for more around town power. I don't think I'll ever go back to an I4... I just dislike the lack of torque.
Now. We start talking 675.. dear sweet god I would own one... I put 1000 street/mountain miles on a streetie- and feel in absolute love- it's like the best of both worlds. I would rock that in a hot minute.
Yeah- I have no need to do 150+ on the street- or even on the track- I'm way to lazy- I gotta slow down for turn one anyway- LOL 100-120 is MORE than adequate for me.0 -
The alpinestar boots, I love em. I was thinking about the sidis, but I tend to get off my bike and wander. I'm after hiking up mountains in those boots. There's no way I was gonna do that in a pair of sidis. I'm kinda mad at the whole Vika Outfit A* just came out with. Protection my *kitten*. Would be cute for a porno tho.
I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups!might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc. :laugh:
how do you like that A*
I just got a brand new Dianese and I cant' find pants to fit for love god or money- my waist is to tiny so either I can GET them over the ****ing round lump 3 feet below my head- then they are too big- or they just won't get up over my thighs.
And what do you ride??
inquiring minds want to know... and yes- I'm thread jacking.
LOL side note- I refuse to log my sportbike riding as exercise- although I know I"m burning- I just refuse to log it.... I wonder how much it would count *kitten* anyway?
I'm 5'8 and have a 25 inch waist and a huge *kitten* (13 inches larger)...the dainese suit is far to short for me. It's a size 42 and very lose in the everything...the thighs, HUGE in the waist, and even in my usually tightest spot (hips) it's loose. I am wearing a sweater and pants inside that suit. But there was no way I was getting a 40 just for length, the 42s are already hurting my knees. But I didn't really want a custom and this is the only womens D-skin suit on the market. And I'm not about to force over the mula for a custom made kangaroo skin suit.
I ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.0 -
I ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.
only to a squid! lol
i'm probably going to get the dianese boot/hitop hybrid thing. they actually have a few different kinds that fit that descripiton, can't remember the exact name for it though.
not as good as a real boot of course, but i want something that i can hang out in off the bike and look normal. its a huge step up from the sneakers i wear now anyway lol0 -
The alpinestar boots, I love em. I was thinking about the sidis, but I tend to get off my bike and wander. I'm after hiking up mountains in those boots. There's no way I was gonna do that in a pair of sidis. I'm kinda mad at the whole Vika Outfit A* just came out with. Protection my *kitten*. Would be cute for a porno tho.
I'm 5'8 and have a 25 inch waist and a huge *kitten* (13 inches larger)...the dainese suit is far to short for me. It's a size 42 and very lose in the everything...the thighs, HUGE in the waist, and even in my usually tightest spot (hips) it's loose. I am wearing a sweater and pants inside that suit. But there was no way I was getting a 40 just for length, the 42s are already hurting my knees. But I didn't really want a custom and this is the only womens D-skin suit on the market. And I'm not about to force over the mula for a custom made kangaroo skin suit.
I ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.
your skin doesn't care a rats *kitten* if you are 80 mph on a 'busa or a ninjette.
You'll slide and turn into ground beef either way. I ride in full leathers to work- which is all of 15 miles- or I was until I out-shrank my leathers.
My Dianese is a 40 I think- it's amazaballs- but their pants are a joke for women It hink- my waist is something like a 28 and my butt's 39- so I"m right there with you. I"m going to drift toward full kevlar jeans- little more practical for the kind of riding i'm going to be doing right now. (No track this year- just commuting- and occasional mountain joy riding)
I have the Super Tech boots- not the R- the first gen ones- I REALLY REALLY like them- but they are not for walking in the least. I have the Sidi fusions- and that's the biggest waste of 100$ I ever spent- fracking useless.
I'm pretty picky about boots-the beefier the better. I'm a dancer and I need my feet/ankles- and flip flops take up no room at all in my givi.0 -
black alpinestars look like boots and let me tell you they're very comfortable. Like I said, I hike in themI ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.
only to a squid! lol
i'm probably going to get the dianese boot/hitop hybrid thing. they actually have a few different kinds that fit that descripiton, can't remember the exact name for it though.
not as good as a real boot of course, but i want something that i can hang out in off the bike and look normal. its a huge step up from the sneakers i wear now anyway lol0 -
I want a honda 50 lol. You have no idea how many guys have asked if I would ride them and my answer is always only if they're over 49ccs.good discusions...
just want to say though HOLLLLAAAAAAAAAA for the SV650's... I see a lot of that in here- and it makes me happies. my little SV. she's amazaballs.
got to love 50 plus mpg. i think the v twin is more fun to ride then I4 as well. how much power does one really need anyway lol
And for the cruiser lovers: THERE IS A NEW INDIAN OUT FOR UNDER $20,000!!!!0 -
I'm willing to compromise for comfort. i can't stand leather. might spring for perferatted leather at some point but i'm happy with my breathable textiles.
I went down in an Icon mesh jacket... it didn't rip... but i've no recollection of the accident. i think i just got tossed into the guard rail and didn't slide much.
also had on kevlar jeans that did great until they cut them off me. again though, don't think i slid much.
By full kevlar you mean the entire pant is lined in kevlar? have not seen one like that, only with kevlar in knee and *kitten* area0 -
black alpinestars look like boots and let me tell you they're very comfortable. Like I said, I hike in themI ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.
only to a squid! lol
i'm probably going to get the dianese boot/hitop hybrid thing. they actually have a few different kinds that fit that descripiton, can't remember the exact name for it though.
not as good as a real boot of course, but i want something that i can hang out in off the bike and look normal. its a huge step up from the sneakers i wear now anyway lol
A* SMX-5 boots are my go-to. Comfy enough for all day wear. Definitely good shtuff.
Also, I would love a 675. I seriously would. Or better yet. Hypermotard. Awwww yeah.0 -
black alpinestars look like boots and let me tell you they're very comfortable. Like I said, I hike in themI ride a little ninja. It's actually hilarious that I'm in a dainese suit for it...but hey, it saved my *kitten*, literally.
only to a squid! lol
i'm probably going to get the dianese boot/hitop hybrid thing. they actually have a few different kinds that fit that descripiton, can't remember the exact name for it though.
not as good as a real boot of course, but i want something that i can hang out in off the bike and look normal. its a huge step up from the sneakers i wear now anyway lol
these look like sneakers. they've got a steel shank, steel toe, tpu plasic heal, its basically a race boot cut off just above the ankles and disguised as a sneeker. not the best but like i said i'm willing to make some compromise.0 -
I'm willing to compromise for comfort. i can't stand leather. might spring for perferatted leather at some point but i'm happy with my breathable textiles.
I went down in an Icon mesh jacket... it didn't rip... but i've no recollection of the accident. i think i just got tossed into the guard rail and didn't slide much.
also had on kevlar jeans that did great until they cut them off me. again though, don't think i slid much.
By full kevlar you mean the entire pant is lined in kevlar? have not seen one like that, only with kevlar in knee and *kitten* area
yes- moto-port- full kevlar.
There is a guy in NYC who is making full kevlar too. I don't remember the name though. Not making for women yet <sad panda face>
My full perf technique was 100% more breathable than my textile. I LOVE that thing- sad it's so big.
I went the complete opposite- I have a none perf- poorly vented jacket now... but dear god it looks amazing. I feel it's pretty much like wearing high heels- wildly impractical... but it looks good so I do it anyway. I do love it.
My dad was actually in Sturgis when they unveiled the new Indian- thought that was cool (he actually doesn't ride- he just went to wander around since he lives near there)
I refuse to sacrifice for comfort in regards to most of my gear... safety first. I hate riding in jeans- I much prefer leathers- even on road trips. But it's not practical for the winter.0 -
I'm willing to compromise for comfort. i can't stand leather. might spring for perferatted leather at some point but i'm happy with my breathable textiles.
I went down in an Icon mesh jacket... it didn't rip... but i've no recollection of the accident. i think i just got tossed into the guard rail and didn't slide much.
also had on kevlar jeans that did great until they cut them off me. again though, don't think i slid much.
By full kevlar you mean the entire pant is lined in kevlar? have not seen one like that, only with kevlar in knee and *kitten* area
yes- moto-port- full kevlar.
There is a guy in NYC who is making full kevlar too. I don't remember the name though. Not making for women yet <sad panda face>
My full perf technique was 100% more breathable than my textile. I LOVE that thing- sad it's so big.
I went the complete opposite- I have a none perf- poorly vented jacket now... but dear god it looks amazing. I feel it's pretty much like wearing high heels- wildly impractical... but it looks good so I do it anyway. I do love it.
My dad was actually in Sturgis when they unveiled the new Indian- thought that was cool (he actually doesn't ride- he just went to wander around since he lives near there)
I refuse to sacrifice for comfort in regards to most of my gear... safety first. I hate riding in jeans- I much prefer leathers- even on road trips. But it's not practical for the winter.
For ventilation, perf leather > textile when you're moving at a decent pace, but when stopped or stuck in traffic, you roast.0 -
are the full kevlar pants hella expensive?
You mean Teknic? I have a mesh Teknic jacket that is definetly my favorite jacket. not sure how well it would do in a slide but its pretty close to wearing a t-shirt comfort wise at highway speeds. also does not fit ideal, a little two short in the torso, but next size up would make too big everywhere.0 -
my objection to leather is not just temperature realated.
just feels confining, much more confident with out it.
the only leather i have has a huge collar on it that actually prevents me from looking forward without fighting it while in the riding postion.
so thats probably got me biased lol0
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