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Calorie in calorie out method is outdated

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Replies

  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?
    "Bad" in what context?
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    It makes sense that a mother’s milk will be optimized for a baby’s growth and development. Calves grow a freaking two pounds a day.

    For the longest time I was confused by the presence of protein in both whey and cheese. Wasn’t the whole process intended to separate the protein? But my aha moment was that the whey is fast acting and the casein longer acting. Makes sense to feed a growing calf a distributed load.
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
    sokkache wrote: »
    Thank you all for helping my curiosity. I posted this with a question. Any thoughts? And I guess apparently I didn't do my research so thanks I will read all the articles you have posted about this because I am just genuinely curious about the chemistry of it not the weight loss.

    CICO doesn't, to my knowledge, do anything to describe how quickly a food is broken down or absorbed. It describes weight loss or gain. That's it. Not health, energy, absorption rates, vitamin deficiencies, sleep patterns, strength gains, or anything else. Those are all governed by different equations. The existence of many different equations about health doesn't negate any particular equation. It just means we have to pick and choose which ones we prioritize. If weight management is a goal then it's best if CICO is one of them alongside any others.

    ^I don't know who woo'd this, but I'd like to know if I have something wrong.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited April 2018
    jgnatca wrote: »
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?

    I think I mentioned that upthread. That's supposed to be a benefit of whey vs. other forms of protein, based on the (outdated) idea that it's important to feed your muscles protein really soon after a workout because the window where it allows for max muscle growth is closing fast. (Again, this is not actually true, it's bro science, but was believed to be a big deal and still is by some.)
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,563 Member
    Does it matter how fast the food converts to energy? If you eat 500 calories and don't expend 500 calories of energy, then you will still be at a net excess in calories. I have been doing this calorie watching thing now for a little over a year. (before this I never counted a calorie). I have been successful in losing weight (not just a couple of pounds - at 50 lost now). I have had weeks when I ate really healthy foods, lost weight and weeks when I ate really horrible unhealthy (if there really is such a thing), lost the same amount of weight. The key is I stay within my calorie limit for the week. So, damn it, I am going to have a bean & cheese taco for breakfast every so often. I will give up something else or just not eat when the bell dings and calorie limit has been reached.

    :drinker:
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    Does it matter how fast the food converts to energy? If you eat 500 calories and don't expend 500 calories of energy, then you will still be at a net excess in calories. I have been doing this calorie watching thing now for a little over a year. (before this I never counted a calorie). I have been successful in losing weight (not just a couple of pounds - at 50 lost now). I have had weeks when I ate really healthy foods, lost weight and weeks when I ate really horrible unhealthy (if there really is such a thing), lost the same amount of weight. The key is I stay within my calorie limit for the week. So, damn it, I am going to have a bean & cheese taco for breakfast every so often. I will give up something else or just not eat when the bell dings and calorie limit has been reached.

    I'm not sure if you were asking the question, or just setting up your post... but to be clear for others who may still be reading...

    No, no it doesn't. Faster cals may leave you hungry sooner, but that's about it. The calories are the calories, the energy is the energy.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited April 2018
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?

    I think I mentioned that upthread. That's supposed to be a benefit of whey vs. other forms of protein, based on the (outdated) idea that it's important to feed your muscles protein really soon after a workout because the window where it allows for max muscle growth is closing fast. (Again, this is not actually true, it's bro science, but was believed to be a big deal and still is by some.)

    Good read about all that (and more) here by Jorn Trommelen: http://www.nutritiontactics.com/measure-muscle-protein-synthesis/#78_Protein_distribution

    All interesting info, but particular relevance to this discussion in sections 7.2, 7.5, 7.7, 7.8, 7.10, and 8 (Summary).
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?

    @jgnatca
    That sounds unlikely. Could you share please?
    Would have thought glucose was the fastest to be metabolised as the amino acids from protein have to reach the intestines to be taken up (I believe).

    I've had to help a couple of diabetics (and a diabetic cat!) having a hypo and it's incredibly fast from ingesting some sugar to "back in the room".
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    When I went looking I was surprised to find that Whey Protein gets metabolised fast. Like really fast. Like faster than sugar. Does that make Whey Protein bad or just different?

    @jgnatca
    That sounds unlikely. Could you share please?
    Would have thought glucose was the fastest to be metabolised as the amino acids from protein have to reach the intestines to be taken up (I believe).

    I've had to help a couple of diabetics (and a diabetic cat!) having a hypo and it's incredibly fast from ingesting some sugar to "back in the room".

    I'm not familiar with whatever research @jgnatca is talking about, but as a diabetic I do know whey protein is unusual - not everyone knows this, but both protein and carbs require insulin to be digested, and protein provokes an insulin response in the body, just as carbs do. It's just that protein generally requires much less insulin than what the body makes in response to it, so type 2 diabetics never become aware of it because it doesn't cause a rise in blood sugar. Whey protein in particular causes a large insulin response, which means that eating it can actually cause a drop in blood sugar. I love eating it for this reason - it's like a magic food which allows me to eat more carbs with it.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    For sure take sugar to bounce back from a diabetic low. I agree it’s like magic.

  • IzzyFlower2018
    IzzyFlower2018 Posts: 121 Member
    sokkache wrote: »
    Thank you all for helping my curiosity. I posted this with a question. Any thoughts? And I guess apparently I didn't do my research so thanks I will read all the articles you have posted about this because I am just genuinely curious about the chemistry of it not the weight loss.

    CICO doesn't, to my knowledge, do anything to describe how quickly a food is broken down or absorbed. It describes weight loss or gain. That's it. Not health, energy, absorption rates, vitamin deficiencies, sleep patterns, strength gains, or anything else. Those are all governed by different equations. The existence of many different equations about health doesn't negate any particular equation. It just means we have to pick and choose which ones we prioritize. If weight management is a goal then it's best if CICO is one of them alongside any others.

    ^I don't know who woo'd this, but I'd like to know if I have something wrong.

    Diane--there's a woo thread running right now, and it's incredible how many people think it means they're "cheering you on". I'd take it in that spirit--you know your stuff.

    This is VERY TRUE ... some people think woo as in whoo hoo!
    I have been to weight loss picture forums where people have only pics of their 20 50 100 lb weigh loss and they will have like 20 woo's ... so I assume good intent otherwise why join a fitness app to boo people losing weight?
    Then again, why join a calorie counting app if you don't think you need to track calories to maintain CICO; so there's that.


This discussion has been closed.