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Anyone cutting after a bulk?

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  • pitbullpuppypitbullpuppy Member Posts: 103 Member Member Posts: 103 Member
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    As long as your are hitting adequate volume (which I believe is 10-20 sets per body part), eating adequate protein, don't have an aggressive weight loss goal, than you should be good to cut back on the volume a bit.
    edited February 23
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 626 Member Member, Premium Posts: 626 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    As long as your are hitting adequate volume (which I believe is 20-30 sets per body part), eating adequate protein, don't have an aggressive weight loss goal, than you should be good to cut back on the volume a bit.

    20-30 sets per body part?
    Pretty sure Dr Mike recommendation is under 20 for most body parts with MEV been as low as 6 sets

    Personally I’d die before I ever reached that number of sets, 16 sets of hammies over 2 sessions is my MRV and then it’s deload as I’m wrecked
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator
    watts6151 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    As long as your are hitting adequate volume (which I believe is 20-30 sets per body part), eating adequate protein, don't have an aggressive weight loss goal, than you should be good to cut back on the volume a bit.

    20-30 sets per body part?
    Pretty sure Dr Mike recommendation is under 20 for most body parts with MEV been as low as 6 sets

    Personally I’d die before I ever reached that number of sets, 16 sets of hammies over 2 sessions is my MRV and then it’s deload as I’m wrecked

    Wow, that was a big typo. It's 10-20 lol. I will update my previous post.


    Although, that might even be too generic because I believe newbies can get benefit from less. And there is also an intensity component too.
    edited February 23
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Member Posts: 1,174 Member Member Posts: 1,174 Member
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    It might have been minimal compared to a current Mr. O but it's was still a ton more than any natural. ;)

    Anyhow, the current idea that seems to work (works for me) is to keep intensity intact. Lower volume as you get deeper into your cut and then lower frequency if needed. Do not lower intensity (weight on the bar).
    watts6151 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    As long as your are hitting adequate volume (which I believe is 20-30 sets per body part), eating adequate protein, don't have an aggressive weight loss goal, than you should be good to cut back on the volume a bit.

    20-30 sets per body part?
    Pretty sure Dr Mike recommendation is under 20 for most body parts with MEV been as low as 6 sets

    Personally I’d die before I ever reached that number of sets, 16 sets of hammies over 2 sessions is my MRV and then it’s deload as I’m wrecked

    I had to learn this the hard way. It's of course easier if your frequency is high and can spread those sets out over multiple days during the week - but for anybody running any bro-split variant, getting in 20-30 high quality sets and then RECOVERING from that gets tough. People tell me that "well, you get 7-10 days to recover" but then I ask them how many of those days they think protein synthesis is actually happening? It might take you a week to fully recover but you sure aren't building muscle for all those days... which genrally means if you accumulate too much damage/stress during that session you aren't going to be able to repair all of it.
    edited February 23
  • pitbullpuppypitbullpuppy Member Posts: 103 Member Member Posts: 103 Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    It might have been minimal compared to a current Mr. O but it's was still a ton more than any natural. ;)

    Anyhow, the current idea that seems to work (works for me) is to keep intensity intact. Lower volume as you get deeper into your cut and then lower frequency if needed. Do not lower intensity (weight on the bar).
    watts6151 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    As long as your are hitting adequate volume (which I believe is 20-30 sets per body part), eating adequate protein, don't have an aggressive weight loss goal, than you should be good to cut back on the volume a bit.

    20-30 sets per body part?
    Pretty sure Dr Mike recommendation is under 20 for most body parts with MEV been as low as 6 sets

    Personally I’d die before I ever reached that number of sets, 16 sets of hammies over 2 sessions is my MRV and then it’s deload as I’m wrecked

    I had to learn this the hard way. It's of course easier if your frequency is high and can spread those sets out over multiple days during the week - but for anybody running any bro-split variant, getting in 20-30 high quality sets and then RECOVERING from that gets tough. People tell me that "well, you get 7-10 days to recover" but then I ask them how many of those days they think protein synthesis is actually happening? It might take you a week to fully recover but you sure aren't building muscle for all those days... which genrally means if you accumulate too much damage/stress during that session you aren't going to be able to repair all of it.

    Absolutely it’s more than any natural. However, that does not mean that a plan formulated decades later after much research is reliant on drug use or somehow invalidated for the non dosing population because the author dosed some twenty years prior. I’d imagine when the author states being against ANY drug (even mundane) he’d have the wherewithal to write an exercise plan that coincides with that mantra. That’s like saying we can never take the business advice of Jeff Bezos because he’s a bit scant on taxes and, well, “that’s just a lot more than any tax payer could get away with”, as if it would completely invalidate the rest of his insight, expertise, research and mastery.
  • quiksylver296quiksylver296 Member Posts: 26,664 Member Member Posts: 26,664 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    Same. I wear business clothing through the week, and my dress pants are all too tight. Dress pants are expensive! But now I'm cutting, so I'm not the right one to talk you out of it. ;)
  • cupcakesandproteinshakescupcakesandproteinshakes Member Posts: 696 Member Member Posts: 696 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    I know you know but you gotta be patient if you are intent on recomping. It’s like watching paint dry.

    I feel ya with the shopping though. I’m mainly hanging out in stretchy leggings. Lycra is my friend.
  • quiksylver296quiksylver296 Member Posts: 26,664 Member Member Posts: 26,664 Member
    I'M DONE BULKING!!! HALLELUJAH! 205.2 lbs this morning. Dropping down to maintenance calories, ~2400, to ease into cutting.

    I've been cutting 5 whole days and I'm only down one pound! What am I doing wrong?!? :laugh:

    Truthfully though, this is tough. A person gets used to basically eating whatever they want.
  • GaryRunsGaryRuns Member, Premium Posts: 363 Member Member, Premium Posts: 363 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    Are you familiar with the phrase, "You'd look good in a gunny sack", or am I just that old? :D

    I had to pull out belts for pants that used to fit, I'm getting effing old so I'm basically looking like Skeletor as I lose weight and I've pretty much been constantly hungry for the last month. Stick with recomp!
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member
    Hey all,
    I am doing a cut. I am following Arnold's plan which is basically 6 days a week, alternating chest and legs, arms, chest and legs, arms...

    Would it be detrimental to go backwards in training? By that I mean doing chest one day, legs the next, arms the next and repeat that (basically his level 1)? Would that make me lose more muscle? I'm just not sure if people scale down their work outs when cutting or if you're supposed to maintain the intensity throughout a cut despite lowering your fuel. Thanks

    Wouldn’t advise doing Arnold’s routine as he was on steroids and would lead to over training I would have thought

    The amount of steroids that Arnold did was minimal in comparison to today's athletes. It was also given under his doctor's discretion (different times). Anyway, the book was written in the 90s well after he was out of professional bodybuilding and spent decades researching effective methods and the science behind bodybuilding. Arnold advocates for not doing even nicotine or alcohol, let alone steroids. As such, it is written for athletes who do not use performance enhancers. Regardless, I have absolutely zero intention of switching plans as I am all natural and several months into the plan with wonderful results. I simply want to know if it would be detrimental to muscle maintenance to scale back sets per week on a given body part.

    Don't lower intensity. That removes the stimulus indication for the body to hold onto the muscle you've already built. But you will naturally have to reduce volume. That's fine.

    Intensity here is weight on the bar. Previously doing 3 x 5 for 200 on Squat/Bench/Dead: 1 x 5 as a top set should work fine. You can then add metabolic volume work for glycogen depletion if you're interested.

    Hope that helps!
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    Don't I know it - my suits are getting tight around the chest and barely fit around my quads.

    Thankfully! I'm finally (finally) on a cut. Starting now at around 170~ and 24.5%~ bf

    Let's see how it comes along.

    Good luck with your events
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Member Posts: 1,174 Member Member Posts: 1,174 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    Don't I know it - my suits are getting tight around the chest and barely fit around my quads.

    Thankfully! I'm finally (finally) on a cut. Starting now at around 170~ and 24.5%~ bf

    Let's see how it comes along.

    Good luck with your events

    I bought a "slim cut" suit four years ago for my honeymoon. Had it tailored and it fit beautifully. The wife and I are going on another cruise in May and there are two formal nights, so I tried my expensive Italian custom made suit.... lol. I can't even get my ARMS into the sleeves. Pants still fit, but that jacket is a lost cause.
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member Member, Premium Posts: 91 Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Had a bit of a discouraging moment over the weekend. I have a few functions coming up, and I didn't expect to fit/look good in all my old dresses, but, arggg, it's so frustrating having your fave clothes not fit. :s Shopping is not an option right now, so it might just be the same 2-3 meh ones I keep wearing over and over. I am so tempted to run a small cut and scrap this recomp for a bit... someone please talk me out of it!!

    Don't I know it - my suits are getting tight around the chest and barely fit around my quads.

    Thankfully! I'm finally (finally) on a cut. Starting now at around 170~ and 24.5%~ bf

    Let's see how it comes along.

    Good luck with your events

    I bought a "slim cut" suit four years ago for my honeymoon. Had it tailored and it fit beautifully. The wife and I are going on another cruise in May and there are two formal nights, so I tried my expensive Italian custom made suit.... lol. I can't even get my ARMS into the sleeves. Pants still fit, but that jacket is a lost cause.

    Ahh that is such a shame! And I know what you mean about Italian slims; they're really quite next level. Nice choice though!

    My bespoke still fits me, thankfully. And it has adjustable tabs for my waist (one of the few times my overthinking came in handy). One of the reasons a straight bulk to 200 is never going to be my cuppa!

    Hey, have fun in May! You could just do an odd waistcoat look and still pull off formal
  • steveko89steveko89 Member Posts: 1,600 Member Member Posts: 1,600 Member
    It's been over a week since I could spend any time on the forums so I'm catching up on some of the conversations I missed with this comment

    - Regarding the Arnold program, I've been running it as well and it's not on the verge of overtraining, at least for me and where the intensity is. Granted, given the time needed I can't say I've gotten to every single set for some of the accessories but I definitely think its' doable

    - All my suits definitely fit differently too. I'm not to JSeams point where the jackets are a lost cause but some definitely have the Ari Gold (Entourage character) look. The custom fit suit I had made about 18 months ago is even starting to get like that in the jacket but the waist is loose. My other two favorites I've had since 2013 and could use some adjusting. The custom shirts I have are getting a little snug in the chest to the point I've had two get small rips right at the placket. Luckily they're small and a tie covers them up.

    Weight wise I'm trending up at 180.6 after the last two weeks have been calorie-tastic. I thought I'd turned the corner and had some good trending data on 2/13 but my graph took a comedic upward turn and I've gone from 176.8 to 179.8 in that span. Overall it's fluffier than I'd like but workouts have been solid and I feel like I've been getting a lot more positive comments from friends and coworkers which makes me think I need to ride this upward trend for a little longer
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,230 MFP Moderator
    Diet and training need to be spot on going forward. I got 7 weeks before I have a trip to Miami Beach and Key West.

    Hopefully this will be the event push i need to get lean enough.
  • alexmosealexmose Member Posts: 509 Member Member Posts: 509 Member
    I’m feeling a bit unhappy with bulking. I’m gaining a bit faster than I’d like. So trending up 2.5 pounds over last 30 days. I have to keep telling myself this is ok and not the end of the world. Also feeling a bit bloated today which doesn’t help. I have to silence the inner voice saying” what ya doing fat girl.” Cos I am no longer that girl.

    I made the decision to stop tracking my food as it makes me a bit obsessive and I also find it quite stressful remembering to log stuff. I’m gonna stick with the plan but eat a bit less and see if I can achieve a gain of about 1.5 pounds a month.

    My jeans are getting a bit tighter round the thighs ( and waist). I may be living in Lycra for a few months.

    Progress in the gym is going well.

    How’s everyone else?

    Still working to try and find my balance to gain .5lb/week. Currently at 2200 cals. Gym is ok. Really sore this week. I didn’t have great sleep Monday so I think that’s part of it.
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