Dating a Divorced, Older Man
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He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.1
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swagoner94 wrote: »Hey MFP Fam:
I’m 23, dating a 36 year old man that was divorced two years ago after about 3 years of dating and 2 years of marriage. The woman was unfaithful and their marriage quickly deteriorated to the point of divorce.
I’ve only dated one other person and obviously have less life experience on him. However, I’m crazy about him and he’s the greatest guy in the world. I honestly can’t imagine someone having him and being able to throw him away.
We’ve been seeing each other for 9 months and it’s been pretty great. Unfortunately, I’ve been getting insecure and unsettled by the lack of verbal affirmation from him. Words of Affirmation is one of my top “Love Languages.” However, he says he has a hard time giving verbal affirmation because he doesn’t want to give me any false hope. He says he is essentially jaded and has commitment issues. He isn’t even sure he wants to be married again. He is wrestling with it and says he cares deeply about me but just needs to figure this out. This is a sentiment he only recently shared. I was clear that marriage is my end goal. He’s not hesitant to spend time with me, date me, or be physically affectionate with me... but he can’t verbally affirm me...
I’m trying to understand something I truly can’t fully grasp - I realize that. But someone please help me understand. This makes me feel so insecure and I hate feeling like my head over heels affections are not reciprocated. I often tell him so many affirming things about him with little in return. My feelings are unconditional and I don’t express them TO get them in return, but I can’t be sustained mentally or emotionally without it ever! I’ve expressed this as well. He says he’ll need to mull this over and see if that’s something he can give me despite his hesitancy with commitment.
Am I just a transitional relationship? A pit stop along his journey to recovery? He’s so amazing; should I ride this out and keep trying to exercise patience in the hopes that MAYBE he will choose me and be able to affirm me? Am I silly for feeling I need that?
and you honestly believe his divorce was ONLY about her...really? 36 is not "an older man" he is just coming into maturity...
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As someone who has been older/divorced and dating, I can relate to his mindset/struggles. It's a process, for sure.
As for you... you either want him, or you want whatever you've envisioned for yourself (marriage, kids, fairy tale, etc). You have to decide how those 2 things mesh for you, and how you prioritize those things for your own happiness.
I do think being in a transitional relationship is riskier than most other relationships (based on my n=1 experience). You're young AND you're meaningfully younger than him. I'd say your best bet is to move on and find someone in the same place as you... but that doesn't mean it's your only bet.6 -
I am independent. I have a career (HR in a leading video company). I’m 23 but I live on my own in LA. I’ve got my retirement plan and I’m settled. I’ve never been one of those care free, “let’s go travel the world” types of millennial individuals. I am living my life. But to me that’s not necessarily enjoying multiple relationships with various people to figure that out or floating around without direction. I have a solid grasp on who I am at my core. I know things will change for me in my 20s, but my fundamental character and being are pretty set and I know what that is.invisiblewoman5 wrote: »Run. Go live your life. For a lot of years. Have fun. Get a career. Be independent and become your own person. Find out who you truly are and what you truly want in life. Don't let another carve that path for you.
I think there’s a line separating (1) this isn’t fair and I need to just walk away, as painful as that is, and (2) unconditional love for a person requires working through tough seasons and being patient, bearing the burdens alongside your person. Marriages end in divorce so often because despite the epitome of commitment that is marriage, people still choose option 1. Unless they’re being abused emotionally or physically, or unless there’s adulterousness, married folks should act as though option 1 doesn’t exist - in my opinion. I’m however, not married. But dating is practice for it. So I’m here in between the two.
Most of you seem to say option 1. But I don’t want to choose that because I’m 23 or because I’m 23 and just need to live my life.1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »swagoner94 wrote: »And I could happily have kids tomorrow!
but that's obviously not what he wants...
he might love you, he might not, but the fact is that you want different things because you want him to say things that he cant/wont...
you have 2 choices, keep things as they are, with you not getting the affirmation you need, or end it and find someone else who is on the same page as you relationship-wise.
He’s always wanted kids. I only said that because a previous comment was that I might want them when I’m 30 and he might not. I may have misread it though!
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swagoner94 wrote: »He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.
I am a little old fashioned, when you give yourself completely and in every way and the other is not, that is a tale tale sign that its most likely not going to change especially after a year. For all the things you described about him in your OP, take it all for what its worth and what he is saying to you.
Either stay or move on. If you leave him, he might follow you, he might decide that he does love and cannot live without you. So there's that. But if he doesn't this should help you with moving on. Don't ever let a dead end relatioship hold you back, but you are young many life's lessons you have learn on your own, but either way learn from the experience it will shape you and prepare you for the next.3 -
listen to your own body..its talking to you loud and clear.1
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swagoner94 wrote: »He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.
You are being kept on a hook here. He's telling you what you want to hear to make you stay (maybe one day) while maintaining enough distance from an actual promise of commitment that when the time comes and you do eventually leave he can still say "well I always said I didn't want to get married again" and none of this is his fault. He's a coward.11 -
As someone who has been older/divorced and dating, I can relate to his mindset/struggles. It's a process, for sure.
As for you... you either want him, or you want whatever you've envisioned for yourself (marriage, kids, fairy tale, etc). You have to decide how those 2 things mesh for you, and how you prioritize those things for your own happiness.
I do think being in a transitional relationship is riskier than most other relationships (based on my n=1 experience). You're young AND you're meaningfully younger than him. I'd say your best bet is to move on and find someone in the same place as you... but that doesn't mean it's your only bet.
Thank you for your comment. I’ve read a lot of articles and it seems many divorced men can deal with these problems. I want him. I have no problem waiting. I’ve told him I’m not looking to get married tomorrow. But that I just need verbal affirmation while I wait. It’s hard for me to even feel like he likes me back if he never says so. Well, he will say “I like you.” But that is the extent of it. No other affirmation even when I’m being insecure. Yet it’s just hard for him to say what he feels knowing that marriage is valuable to me and he isn’t yet 100% sure about it yet. I don’t idolize marriage itself. It’s just my personal conviction that marriage is the way relationships should be. A whole hearted devotion to one another until death do us part. Again, I’m not saying today or tomorrow or the next day. I’m patient - especially for someone as precious and wonderful as him. I just get down without affirmation....
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This is why you have the dealbreaker discussion at the slightest sign of things getting serious.
Dealbreakers are things so important to you, that if they're not shared, then all the love in the world is not going to be enough to feed that gaping hole. Marriage? Kids? Moving to Guatemala? A pet raccoon? Whatever drives your purpose, the opposing party's answers to that can only be „Yes”, „No” and „Maybe”, where the latter two kinda translate to „not good enough”.6 -
swagoner94 wrote: »Hey MFP Fam:
I’m 23, dating a 36 year old man that was divorced two years ago after about 3 years of dating and 2 years of marriage. The woman was unfaithful and their marriage quickly deteriorated to the point of divorce.
I’ve only dated one other person and obviously have less life experience on him. However, I’m crazy about him and he’s the greatest guy in the world. I honestly can’t imagine someone having him and being able to throw him away.
We’ve been seeing each other for 9 months and it’s been pretty great. Unfortunately, I’ve been getting insecure and unsettled by the lack of verbal affirmation from him. Words of Affirmation is one of my top “Love Languages.” However, he says he has a hard time giving verbal affirmation because he doesn’t want to give me any false hope. He says he is essentially jaded and has commitment issues. He isn’t even sure he wants to be married again. He is wrestling with it and says he cares deeply about me but just needs to figure this out. This is a sentiment he only recently shared. I was clear that marriage is my end goal. He’s not hesitant to spend time with me, date me, or be physically affectionate with me... but he can’t verbally affirm me...
I’m trying to understand something I truly can’t fully grasp - I realize that. But someone please help me understand. This makes me feel so insecure and I hate feeling like my head over heels affections are not reciprocated. I often tell him so many affirming things about him with little in return. My feelings are unconditional and I don’t express them TO get them in return, but I can’t be sustained mentally or emotionally without it ever! I’ve expressed this as well. He says he’ll need to mull this over and see if that’s something he can give me despite his hesitancy with commitment.
Am I just a transitional relationship? A pit stop along his journey to recovery? He’s so amazing; should I ride this out and keep trying to exercise patience in the hopes that MAYBE he will choose me and be able to affirm me? Am I silly for feeling I need that?
and you honestly believe his divorce was ONLY about her...really? 36 is not "an older man" he is just coming into maturity...
He knows he could’ve done things better but I mean... yeah she cheated on him with a woman...1 -
You're a pit stop. When a man talks about not wanting to get married again, he just wants companionship when he wants it and to do his own thing his own way. There's lots of fish out there in the sea. And I'm sure he knows that too. Move on.
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SabAteNine wrote: »This is why you have the dealbreaker discussion at the slightest sign of things getting serious.
Dealbreakers are things so important to you, that if they're not shared, then all the love in the world is not going to be enough to feed that gaping hole. Marriage? Kids? Moving to Guatemala? A pet raccoon? Whatever drives your purpose, the opposing party's answers to that can only be „Yes”, „No” and „Maybe”, where the latter two kinda translate to „not good enough”.
Oh we did. Marriage being off the table was a deal breaker. Unfortunately, he wasn’t clear upfront about where he was with that. But he knows it’s a dealbreaker for me which is why he is hesitant. Because he isn’t against it but isn’t sure he is ready to open himself back up to it either.1 -
swagoner94 wrote: »As someone who has been older/divorced and dating, I can relate to his mindset/struggles. It's a process, for sure.
As for you... you either want him, or you want whatever you've envisioned for yourself (marriage, kids, fairy tale, etc). You have to decide how those 2 things mesh for you, and how you prioritize those things for your own happiness.
I do think being in a transitional relationship is riskier than most other relationships (based on my n=1 experience). You're young AND you're meaningfully younger than him. I'd say your best bet is to move on and find someone in the same place as you... but that doesn't mean it's your only bet.
Thank you for your comment. I’ve read a lot of articles and it seems many divorced men can deal with these problems. I want him. I have no problem waiting. I’ve told him I’m not looking to get married tomorrow. But that I just need verbal affirmation while I wait. It’s hard for me to even feel like he likes me back if he never says so. Well, he will say “I like you.” But that is the extent of it. No other affirmation even when I’m being insecure. Yet it’s just hard for him to say what he feels knowing that marriage is valuable to me and he isn’t yet 100% sure about it yet. I don’t idolize marriage itself. It’s just my personal conviction that marriage is the way relationships should be. A whole hearted devotion to one another until death do us part. Again, I’m not saying today or tomorrow or the next day. I’m patient - especially for someone as precious and wonderful as him. I just get down without affirmation....
There's a lot he's working through... you have some things to work through, too. You're being insecure, you know that, now work on it. Don't hold him hostage to your insecurities. He's working on his stuff, you work on your stuff, and if all goes well, you'll both end up in better places together. If not, you'll both be in better places for the next relationship.3 -
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swagoner94 wrote: »
I am independent. I have a career (HR in a leading video company). I’m 23 but I live on my own in LA. I’ve got my retirement plan and I’m settled. I’ve never been one of those care free, “let’s go travel the world” types of millennial individuals. I am living my life. But to me that’s not necessarily enjoying multiple relationships with various people to figure that out or floating around without direction. I have a solid grasp on who I am at my core. I know things will change for me in my 20s, but my fundamental character and being are pretty set and I know what that is.invisiblewoman5 wrote: »Run. Go live your life. For a lot of years. Have fun. Get a career. Be independent and become your own person. Find out who you truly are and what you truly want in life. Don't let another carve that path for you.
I think there’s a line separating (1) this isn’t fair and I need to just walk away, as painful as that is, and (2) unconditional love for a person requires working through tough seasons and being patient, bearing the burdens alongside your person. Marriages end in divorce so often because despite the epitome of commitment that is marriage, people still choose option 1. Unless they’re being abused emotionally or physically, or unless there’s adulterousness, married folks should act as though option 1 doesn’t exist - in my opinion. I’m however, not married. But dating is practice for it. So I’m here in between the two.
Most of you seem to say option 1. But I don’t want to choose that because I’m 23 or because I’m 23 and just need to live my life.
Is HE doing this? Does he show you unconditional love? You said he won't even tell you the words you want to hear. This doesn't sound like a long term relationship that someone has gotten tired of. He doesn't want what you want. That's why I think you'd be better off moving on if you're not getting what you need from the relationship as it is.
He shows it tremendously. That has been what has kept me going this far. He never I never went or was asked to prom in high school so for Valentines Day he decorated his entire house beautifully, had us dress up, and threw me a private prom. He’s done many huge gestures like this. He shows it. I’m thankful for that since I do thing action is louder. But 9 months later without much of the verbal is hard for me.0 -
RunHardBeStrong wrote: »
Agree 100%. I've never thought that romantic love was unconditional. My love for my kids? Closest thing to unconditional I've experienced.
Absolutely. Those 2 little a holes are the only ones I would actually die for.4 -
Is there a such thing as unconditional love when it comes to someone besides kids/family? In my experience there are always conditions
Yes and you shouldn’t get married if there’s not. How is there family or kids without a partner you unconditionally love. There are things we should do to make a marriage enjoyable. But those aren’t conditions for loving someone. Those are conditions for making a marriage thrive. My thoughts anyways.1 -
...and it shouldn't be your purpose to „mend” a person, to put them back together.
Sure, the idea might be seductive. There's a reason why young women are the primary target group for romantic melodramas with dark, broken, never-gonna-love-again-oh-hi male protagonists.
But this is not a movie... and repeating what others before have said, you need to figure out what you want and how to stand upright in your own boat before stepping across another, or catering to what someone else needs.
Edit: Lots of replies in-between.
Well, whatever you feel is best in the end. Go with your gut, go with your brain, make pros and cons lists, it's up to you.
And yeah, even with the dealbreakers all set, life can surprise you anyway. At any point down the line.4 -
Although the age difference is not a big deal, age should never play a part in matters of the heart. Him not being able to trust or affirm right now is,either something you have to accept or let him go and explore until he can find that in his life again. As the say if it was meant to be you will find each other again, but at your age you deserve to also find someone that can open themself up completely. But the heart wants what the heart wants so whose to say lol. Good luck.2
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RunHardBeStrong wrote: »
Agree 100%. I've never thought that romantic love was unconditional. My love for my kids? Closest thing to unconditional I've experienced.
Romantic love is a type of love and it ebbs and flows. People get married based off this and when it isn’t “romantic” feeling, they divorce. People shouldn’t get married based on that feeling. A good marriage should try to keep it and sustain that. Unconditional love is self sacrificing. It isn’t a feeling or emotion. It’s a conscious and constant choice to choose a person even when they’re unlovely.1 -
The question is if he mulls it over and comes back and says I don't want marriage or kids are you fine with an ongoing uncommited relationship with a person who doesn't affirm you? Are you fine not having kids?
It seems like you are dissatisfied with continuing as you are.
I think after 9 months of dating at his age he would know if he sees the relationship heading toward marriage or not. Did you know each other long before starting to date? Are you the first person he dated after his divorce?
I think he has been taking advantage of your kindness, youth, love, affirmations to bolster himself after his ex relationship...maybe unconsciously. I do think you are a transition relationship for him and that is why he holds back.6 -
swagoner94 wrote: »He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.
Is the end goal for you to be married, or is it to be in a loving and committed relationship with someone?
I'm genuinely curious on this answer from you. I am one who believes that the commitment is not a piece of paper sanctioned by the Gov't, nor a religion. The commitment is at the relationship between people who love one another unconditionally, and do not need to be married to show this. Then, if it should fall apart, they do not need to go through the hassles of legal matters to end the relationship. The only time the courts should get involved is if there is a disagreement in how the property and money acquired during their relationship is divided between them.
I can relate to his mindset, as I went through a very painful divorce myself. I loved her deeply, and only got married because I was young and foolish and that's what she wanted. While I'm not currently dating anyone, I have been in a couple of relationships since my divorce, and I have no desire to get married again. If someone tells me that their end goal is the be married, I raise a skeptical eye to her. Reason for this is that it seems either materialistic, or perhaps a girlish dream yet unfulfilled.
There are a lot of people who have been in long term, unmarried relationships. Some of my friends were together for 25 years before they tied the knot. But, evidently, they had problems with it and they divorced within a couple of years and went their separate ways.
For me, a relationship is about spending time with one another. Experiencing life's many wonders, joys and even sorrows together. Enjoying each other's company, and looking forward to seeing them when they come home from work, or even just from a trip to the store. Being happy in their togetherness, while also knowing there'll be bumps in the road.
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SabAteNine wrote: »...and it shouldn't be your purpose to „mend” a person, to put them back together.
Sure, the idea might be seductive. There's a reason why young women are the primary target group for romantic melodramas with dark, broken, never-gonna-love-again-oh-hi male protagonists.
But this is not a movie... and repeating what others before have said, you need to figure out what you want and how to stand upright in your own boat before stepping across another, or catering to what someone else needs.
I don’t think I’m trying to fix him. He IS in a mending stage. HE is working it out. I’m just trying to decide if I should walk alongside him through that. Not be the one fixing himz1 -
swagoner94 wrote: »SabAteNine wrote: »...and it shouldn't be your purpose to „mend” a person, to put them back together.
Sure, the idea might be seductive. There's a reason why young women are the primary target group for romantic melodramas with dark, broken, never-gonna-love-again-oh-hi male protagonists.
But this is not a movie... and repeating what others before have said, you need to figure out what you want and how to stand upright in your own boat before stepping across another, or catering to what someone else needs.
I don’t think I’m trying to fix him. He IS in a mending stage. HE is working it out. I’m just trying to decide if I should walk alongside him through that. Not be the one fixing himz
Again, my n=1 experience, so TIFIW...
That's the role of a friend, not a partner. There's a difference between being there *for* him and being there *with* him.4 -
xFunctionalStrengthx wrote: »swagoner94 wrote: »He makes it sound like he... wants to want marriage again. I mean I’ve asked him why we are together if he’s not even sure about that, and he says he’s not sure he doesnt. He acknowledges this of course isn’t fair to me as our options are to call it off or for me to wait around and see if he makes up his mind and lands on the same page.
Is the end goal for you to be married, or is it to be in a loving and committed relationship with someone?
I'm genuinely curious on this answer from you. I am one who believes that the commitment is not a piece of paper sanctioned by the Gov't, nor a religion. The commitment is at the relationship between people who love one another unconditionally, and do not need to be married to show this. Then, if it should fall apart, they do not need to go through the hassles of legal matters to end the relationship. The only time the courts should get involved is if there is a disagreement in how the property and money acquired during their relationship is divided between them.
I can relate to his mindset, as I went through a very painful divorce myself. I loved her deeply, and only got married because I was young and foolish and that's what she wanted. While I'm not currently dating anyone, I have been in a couple of relationships since my divorce, and I have no desire to get married again. If someone tells me that their end goal is the be married, I raise a skeptical eye to her. Reason for this is that it seems either materialistic, or perhaps a girlish dream yet unfulfilled.
There are a lot of people who have been in long term, unmarried relationships. Some of my friends were together for 25 years before they tied the knot. But, evidently, they had problems with it and they divorced within a couple of years and went their separate ways.
For me, a relationship is about spending time with one another. Experiencing life's many wonders, joys and even sorrows together. Enjoying each other's company, and looking forward to seeing them when they come home from work, or even just from a trip to the store. Being happy in their togetherness, while also knowing there'll be bumps in the road.
To me marriage is the culmination of commitment. As you even pointed out, not being married always lends an easy ability to throw in the towel when things get hard rather than work them out. I’m a woman of faith. For me, marriage represents infinitely more than just commitment as well. He knows this too. But with him, I’m, again, not trying to get him to propose anytime soon. Neither of us are ready for that.2 -
swagoner94 wrote: »It’s a conscious and constant choice to choose a person even when they’re unlovely.
unlovely
.. never heard that before I like that ... I was unlovely this weekend when I got cross and destroyed the cucumber on the kitchen wall .. must go home and be nice to my wife for choosing me even though I was unlovely .. I dont think the cucumber feels the same to be honest
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